The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

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Mafty
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

I'm just glad that they have the Gustav Karl in its original colors (which look somewhat like the Dijeh), hopefully they'll release a model of this unit.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

The Funnel Missiles are a really interesting idea, but I bet they're expensive and it will be difficult to resupply them. Are there any reasons given for why Xi Gundam exclusively uses Funnel Missiles instead of incorporating Funnels as well? I was wondering if it was pilot related or technology related.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:51 pm The Funnel Missiles are a really interesting idea, but I bet they're expensive and it will be difficult to resupply them. Are there any reasons given for why Xi Gundam exclusively uses Funnel Missiles instead of incorporating Funnels as well? I was wondering if it was pilot related or technology related.
I'd say that is for showing how the psychommu technology is getting cheaper and thus they are testing out possibility of using it as a disposable weapon.

Other rationales I can think of are:
1) turret type funnels/bits have a short operation time and is hard to retrieve practically in combat, thus they are already almost disposed after use. Considering the MS is the best cost performance size out there, it is not hard to come to the conclusion that anything smaller isn't really cost effective.
2) funnels/bits are not easy to use. Just look at AMX-004G, which increased the funnel number to 30 from the 8~12 on the AMX-004 and AMX-004-2/3. The increase is likely to account for the loss of funnels with poor usage. Yes, granted we get the 6 on Sazabi and Jagd Doga, but those are elite units who likely can control the funnels well.
3) Atmospheric flight is harder to achieve. You might be able to make drones, but keep them flying & aiming at the target at super sonic speeds will be hard, so missiles are a good alternative.

Another thing I notice is that they seem to have retcon the Gundams to have Minovsky Flight instead of Minovsky Craft as in the novels. Makes more sense because Minovsky Craft always gives an impression that it have to stay near the ground instead of flying freely. (Though Minovsky flight have not been mentioned anytime before this to be available until UC0120)
Mafty
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

So why was the Penelope Made? Mafty Made the XI Gundam to continue in their operations, after starting off with the Messer. Was the Penelope made speifically to hunt down Mafty? It is a very powerful unit to just be a test prototype.

Also does anyone else think Mafty's custom Messer color scheme makes it look kind of like a Gaza-C from the Second Neo Zeon war? It fits coming from someone who inherited both Amuro and Char's ideals.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

My first thought was maybe bits/funnels don't work well on Earth due to atmospheric flight, been a while but I thought I remember funnels on the earth arc of ZZ. Then I wondered if funnels are only usable by certain Newtypes and Hathaway just isn't able to control them accurately enough so guided missiles via psycommu was the next best bet. Still, sucks to get a resupply on that for a secret organization like Mafty.

Interesting point about the Minovsky Flight vs Craft system. Hard to tell from the low angle shots but it seems like Penelope stayed mostly close to the ground during the early parts of the movie and the final sequence with Penelope and Xi may have started fairly high but they stayed closer to the ground for the rest of the battle.

As for why the Penelope was built, during the Movie Hathaway mentions that Anaheim was playing both of them. It appears they promised Xi to Mafty and then sold the Odysseus/Penelope Gundam to the Federation Forces which was the prototype for the Minovsky Craft/Flight system. Once again Anaheim playing both sides for profit.

The Messer Commander reminded me of Rezun's Geara Doga Commander/Custom.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:48 pm My first thought was maybe bits/funnels don't work well on Earth due to atmospheric flight, been a while but I thought I remember funnels on the earth arc of ZZ. Then I wondered if funnels are only usable by certain Newtypes and Hathaway just isn't able to control them accurately enough so guided missiles via psycommu was the next best bet. Still, sucks to get a resupply on that for a secret organization like Mafty.

Interesting point about the Minovsky Flight vs Craft system. Hard to tell from the low angle shots but it seems like Penelope stayed mostly close to the ground during the early parts of the movie and the final sequence with Penelope and Xi may have started fairly high but they stayed closer to the ground for the rest of the battle.

As for why the Penelope was built, during the Movie Hathaway mentions that Anaheim was playing both of them. It appears they promised Xi to Mafty and then sold the Odysseus/Penelope Gundam to the Federation Forces which was the prototype for the Minovsky Craft/Flight system. Once again Anaheim playing both sides for profit.

The Messer Commander reminded me of Rezun's Geara Doga Commander/Custom.
the Messer is basically another new model in the AMX line but with unicorn it's no longer the direct sequel to the Gera doga with the Sleeves own AMS-129 Geara Zulu between it but the dev tree hjas the sleeves ms be a dead end and the Me02R-F01 Messer Type-F01and the P02 be other direct decedents but made with AEUG like parts recycling for weapons explained as a guerilla warfare basically it uses all the equiptment off the RGM-89 Jegan Type-A down to its normal beam rifle using ther same e-pacs letting it scavenge ammo off fallen RGM units using the same rifle and can replace and recharge the beam saber from the same ms. this is above the Nemo who reused only the RGM-79R beam rifle and the sabers were off the MSA-100 because of cost.
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Kuruni
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

I just wish we'll see Osysseus' Argo unit, even as gunpla-only.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

JEFFPIATT wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:50 am The Me02R-F01 Messer Type-F01and the P02 be other direct decedents but made with AEUG like parts recycling for weapons explained as a guerilla warfare basically it uses all the equiptment off the RGM-89 Jegan Type-A down to its normal beam rifle using ther same e-pacs letting it scavenge ammo off fallen RGM units using the same rifle and can replace and recharge the beam saber from the same ms. this is above the Nemo who reused only the RGM-79R beam rifle and the sabers were off the MSA-100 because of cost.
That's really neat, I never would have guessed the Messer has a similar design philosophy to the Nemo making it cheap, cost effective and using current armaments.

My concerns about resupply are with the funnel missiles for the Xi. They're really cool, but given how missiles are one-use I feel like they're a challenging logistical issue for a guerilla organization compared to just funnels. From the movie it sounded like half of their extra parts are currently at the bottom of the ocean. I couldn't quite catch if they were saying there was or was not a spare beam rifle available though.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Underrated GM Custom wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:51 am My concerns about resupply are with the funnel missiles for the Xi. They're really cool, but given how missiles are one-use I feel like they're a challenging logistical issue for a guerilla organization compared to just funnels. From the movie it sounded like half of their extra parts are currently at the bottom of the ocean. I couldn't quite catch if they were saying there was or was not a spare beam rifle available though.
The list of parts we see in the movie have the following in the way of spare parts:
  • 3 beam rifles
  • 30 energy packs for beam rifles
  • 2 shields
  • 84 normal missiles
  • 80 funnel missiles
  • 3_ weapon containers
  • 17x8 standard container
  • And an annoyingly-obscured breakdown of spare parts:
    • __ leg parts
    • __shoulder parts
    • 2 __
    • 3 __
    • 2 __ts
Note that we don't know if the equipment already loaded/equipped to the Xi are included with this count (if that is the case, you then subtract 1 each from the beam rifle and shield (the shield Hathaway used in the battle is pretty much a write-off) and an entire load of missiles (normal and funnel).
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Mafty
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

So if Funnel Missiles and Beam Rifles are extras, does that mean Funnels themselves also come with replacements? Look at any battle with Funnels against a Gundam, and you'll see they need extras.

Also since Anaheim sells to the highest bidder, what does that mean for the Messer? Was it originally meant to be a Zeon Remnant unit?
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

I mean, you need spare parts to repair suits after they take damage so unless you have the facilities at a base/on a ship to fabricate them from scratch you need replacements made in advance. Given how funnels get shot down, you'd assume that most suits carrying them would be shipped with at least a few replacements for the inevitable losses in the field.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Mafty wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:11 pm So if Funnel Missiles and Beam Rifles are extras, does that mean Funnels themselves also come with replacements? Look at any battle with Funnels against a Gundam, and you'll see they need extras.
At least they have the idea of funnel pod in CDA and mother funnel in ZZ.
But the idea of having extras is obviously done in AMX-004G Mass production Qubeley, it just carries 30 funnels for losses.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

MythSearcher wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:33 pm But the idea of having extras is obviously done in AMX-004G Mass production Qubeley, it just carries 30 funnels for losses.
Nothing official, but the original idea of MP Qubeley seems to be just overwhelming firepower. From what I can gathered, Double Fake's Bagi Doga is noted how they learned from Geymalk and MP Qubeley that adding more funnel only give dimmishing return fighting power (and so Bagi Doga is more focus on utilization of its remote weapons). Years later, Moon Gundam spell it out in Dag Doll's profile that not every newtype can control many funnels at once (the Dag Doll has system that allow weak newtype to do so, but it's too stressful and can only safely activate for 3 minutes).

It just occurred to me, but the mental stress might be yet another advantage of the funnel misdile? Logically, controlling a missile should be less complicate in comparision.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Kuruni wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:06 am Nothing official, but the original idea of MP Qubeley seems to be just overwhelming firepower. From what I can gathered, Double Fake's Bagi Doga is noted how they learned from Geymalk and MP Qubeley that adding more funnel only give dimmishing return fighting power (and so Bagi Doga is more focus on utilization of its remote weapons). Years later, Moon Gundam spell it out in Dag Doll's profile that not every newtype can control many funnels at once (the Dag Doll has system that allow weak newtype to do so, but it's too stressful and can only safely activate for 3 minutes).

It just occurred to me, but the mental stress might be yet another advantage of the funnel misdile? Logically, controlling a missile should be less complicate in comparision.
It always show up as the MP Qubeley needed more funnels because they expect the less experienced and less powerful NT pilots on them cannot control as well, so they will not be able to retrieve the funnels like Haman or Ple, thus they just added more.

And yes, the funnel missiles seems to imply they are easier to control, because all they do is ram into the target and not sophistical controlled to move and aim in all directions.
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PowerdGNFlag
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

If you can slap a psycommu receiver and some thrusters to some sturm faust warheads to make some pretty effective funnel missiles, then I'd say that making new ones should be easy (though with the Xi's fancy double-cone funnel missiles, I'm not so sure).
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

PowerdGNFlag wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:08 am If you can slap a psycommu receiver and some thrusters to some sturm faust warheads to make some pretty effective funnel missiles, then I'd say that making new ones should be easy (though with the Xi's fancy double-cone funnel missiles, I'm not so sure).
The appearance is just an outer shell and can be done by a large enough press machine or two easily, so no problems.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

PowerdGNFlag wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:44 pm The list of parts we see in the movie have the following in the way of spare parts:
Note that we don't know if the equipment already loaded/equipped to the Xi are included with this count (if that is the case, you then subtract 1 each from the beam rifle and shield (the shield Hathaway used in the battle is pretty much a write-off) and an entire load of missiles (normal and funnel).
Good eye! I completely missed that tablet on the first watch. Thanks for taking the time to list it out, that's quite a stock pile of spare parts for the Xi Gundam, although as you mention if that's the total manifest it may be -1 Each for what was currently equipped. This is definitely the perfect show to integrate ammo, resupply and logistics into the narrative. I thought Unicorn might go into this a bit, since the beam magnum has a very limited ammo supply just like Wing Gundam's buster rifle, but it didn't seem to play as big a role as I expected. Hopefully the lack of spare parts and ammo continues to be an issue for Mafty and not just a one-off line.
Kuruni wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:06 am Years later, Moon Gundam spell it out in Dag Doll's profile that not every newtype can control many funnels at once (the Dag Doll has system that allow weak newtype to do so, but it's too stressful and can only safely activate for 3 minutes).
I'd had been wondering if that was ever confirmed anywhere. In CCA we see that virtually every Newtype can use Funnels so I always assumed it was a technology maturation issue as to why other units Newtypes and Cyber-Newtypes did not use them in previous series. It makes perfect sense that some are better able to parallel process and control multiple funnels at once while others struggle with just a few or any at all. Perhaps Hathaway is one of those where controlling Funnels was difficult and he's better able to work with Funnel Missiles.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

You know, if Funnel missiles become more popular and cheaper, wouldn't it bring MA back in vogue? I mean, in term of using space efficiency and the amount of things carrying internally and externally, MA has an advantage over MS.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Funnel missiles seem to be a bit of an evolutionary dead end, since the only units that mounted them were Xi and Penelope and then the Gastima much later... though I'm not sure those actually operate on the same principles. Oh, and the Kshatriya Repair had proto-funnel missiles I guess. Whether it's a reduction in the number of Newtypes available to effectively use them or because the technology never got affordable enough (you are essentially throwing away the psychommu tech with every missile, while funnels are at least potentially multi-use) it seems they never did become widespread.
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Re: The Official Gundam Hathaway Mecha Thread Mk I

Well, Banzo and Grego from Crossbone Gundam Ghost have programable micro misdiles. Not even need newtype, and possibly can't pull complex pattern, but it get the job done.
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