MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

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Gelgoog Jager
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MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:34 am

The most recent AOZ Re-boot volume adds a a few more designs to the table, this time the Elmeth derived MAN-08S Helios, its marine cousin the MAN-08S-M (MAM-08S-M in the notes) Helios Mariner and a blue Sand Angler class ship, the Fort Apache:

http://hobby.dengeki.com/aoz/illust/reboot11/

I'm particularly intrigued by the later, since the existence of the AMX-008M and MAN-08S-M would derive not he question of whether or not there's a dedicated ship for deploying these marine units, in which case I would like to assume that this blue Sand Angler class ship is the prime candidate for such role.

http://hobby.dengeki.com/aoz/illust/reboot08/
http://hobby.dengeki.com/aoz/illust/reboot02-b/

Assuming that was the case, it would mean that the Sand Angler retains the capability to move across water bodies, though I'm uncertain if it would still be able to move underwater. And if it also has airborne and space use capabilities as its relationship to the Motorad ships could imply, it could actually be a true "universal use" warship. On the other hand, the existence of a second Sand Angler class would suggest that either Zeon forces at Mars moved a second Mad Angler class ship to Mars, or more likely that the design is merely inspired on the Mad Angler class, and not the result of heavily modifying a Mad Angler class submarine that was dragged all the way to Mars from Earth.

In the case of the Hellios, I would like to know its relationship with the Elmeth and the Qubeley. Also, the small relationship chart made a glaring omission by not mentioning the MAN-07-X3, a OYW variant of the standard Grublo which uses underwater bits and which in essence should have more in common with the other newtype use MAs in the chart:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MAM-07-X3_ ... _Prototype

That being said, I'm also concerned about the Helios Mariner seemingly appearing as a missing link between the OYW MAs and the Shamblo in the chart, since the later, while appearing in U.C. 0096, is supposed to originally be an Axis/1st Neo Zeon design.

bilbros
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by bilbros » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:25 am

the existence of the AMX-008M and MAN-08S-M would derive not he question of whether or not there's a dedicated ship for deploying these marine units, in which case I would like to assume that this blue Sand Angler class ship is the prime candidate for such role.
Exactly: caption text of the Fort Apache says that this is the 3rd unit of the class (units #1 and #2 being Fort Alamo and Rio Grande, respectively) and that it operates in the underground waters of Mars, embarking the MAN-08S-M.
By the way, the other two Sand Anglers are used as land ships.

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Deacon Blues
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:31 pm

Let's see how well I can go back and forth on my phone so apologies if this is weird:

Sand Angler-class Submersible Land Carrier Fort Apache

Among the Zeon Mars survival fleets led by the outlaw Chester, it is the third warship of the Sand Angler-class submersible land carrier. In addition to this, the first ship of the class and flagship of the fleet is named Fort Alamo with the second ship being the Rio Grande. It has a warship design similar to the later Rewloola-class and is being constructed as a mobile suit carrier to handle a large number of mobile suits. The center hangar is an expanding type, it can expand and contract the hull by about twice as much like an accordion allowing for one giant mobile armor to be loaded inside: the Adzam in ship one and the Helios in ship three. The role of the three ships in "Operation Radiant Star," which is the Inle recovery operation, has the first and second ship carry out a diversionary operation at the Arcadia pland while the third ship penetrates the subsurface glaciers as originally planned. The key tactic to the Chester Fleet's guerrilla warfare in the desert was standardizing all ships and all mobile suits with a sand color. However, ship number 3 was modified into a marine color to penetrate the glaciers for this operation. As this repainting was suggestive of "funeral make-up" and loathed by Chester, it was carried out by the decision of the third ships captain in order to accomplish their mission. However, it seemed to suggest the future of the third ship.

*Submersible Land Carrier is what I could best come up with for 潜地空母.

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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:07 pm

So, it is safe to assume that these ships are built from scratch and are simply based on the Mad Angler (Mud Angler in some text) class, not literally built from submarines brought to Mars, right?

By the way, any mention on their MS capacities in either MS hangar mode?

And, are they also capable of atmospheric flight and/or operating in space? Between its implied relationship to the Motored fleet ships and also considering that the preceding Endra class was also built to operate in space and Earth (thanks to its Minovsky Craft System), I keep wondering if they are not ground use only ships.

Also, any interesting info on the Gran:Xandria?:

http://hobby.dengeki.com/aoz/illust/reboot09/

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Deacon Blues
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Deacon Blues » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:10 pm

The pic of the Andrastea-class says: The Sand Angler is a land battleship with a Minovsky craft as its propulsion system. The idea is thought to be an archetype for things such as the later Adrastea-class. The part about the Rewloola says: Heat sinks were equipped on either side of the central hull and its design and structure became the basis for the Sand Angler's expanding/retracting feature.

The text on the Sand Angler says that they were produced in a Mars plant with the design of the Mad Angler-class submarine as a base.

As for the mobile suits, it says as follows: In addition to 20 mobile suits, the Sand Angler can also carry one large mobile armor, and is also used as an operational carrier for mobile weapons. It utilizes a special structure capable of expanding and retracting the hull forward and backward according to the number of mobile suits on board. Note that the central part of the hull is the expanding/retracting point.

Now the other weird part is this "Minovstrum Unit":

A kind of land battleship utilized by Zeon Mars. Equipped with a Minovstorm unit on either side of the ship, it allows for tunneling underground while causing a sandstorm. With a flying ban imposed on Mars and due to ReZeon's deployment of surveillance satellites in orbit, it is effectively becoming impossible for ground activities. In order to escape from these surveillance networks, Zeon Mars is based on this ship called the "Angler," diving underground to continue guerrilla activities against ReZeon.

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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:45 pm

If I'm not mistaken this series takes place on UC 0091, right? I wonder if this could mean that the designs of the Rewloola and Musaka could have been leftovers from the 1st Neo Zeon movement, as in the case of the Geara Doga, which incidentally now also has an earlier deployment date also on UC 0091, courtesy Gundam Side Stories (late Missing Link arc). The Shamblo is also said to have been a design from Haman's Neo Zeon.

In some old threads about the fleets participating at the Battle of Axis during Neo Zeon's civil war, I had pointed out a screen briefly appearing showing 35 dots, which seem to represent the ship's on each side, with 11 at Axis (Glemy's) and 24 at Core 3 (Haman's). But while we do see a bunch of Endras along the Sadalahn on Haman's fleet, all we see of Glemy's fleet is the Gwanban and the Sandra (blue Endra), but no other ship. We also know that since Glemy seized control of Axis, he had access to the most advanced weapons of the 1st Neo Zeon, including the Doven Wolfs, the improved MPed Qubeley's, some AMX-011S and the Queen Mantha. So, could the Rewloola and/or Musakas have been also part of this fleet, at the time being some of the newest ships built at Axis and captured after Glemy's forces took control of the asteroid base?

Given that we know that Char's 2nd Neo Zeon was financially challenged, I think it would make more sense to think that their ships could be leftovers from the 1st Neo Zeon rather than a brand new fleet. This is particularly likely to be the case of the Rewloola, which over the years has been suspected to be far larger than what the original specs indicated.

Therefore, I would find more likely that the Gran Xandria and Sand Angler were based on the already existing designs of the Rewloola and Musaka class, rather than the other way around, as the timeline (0091 and 0093 respectively) could imply at first glance.

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BrentD15
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by BrentD15 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:46 am

Well, if they'll do one for the Braw Bro, why not the Elmeth, right? :mrgreen:
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: MAN-08S Helios & Sand Angler class Fort Apache

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:29 am

BrentD15 wrote:Well, if they'll do one for the Braw Bro, why not the Elmeth, right? :mrgreen:
I had been wondering what unit you were talking about, but only recently found out about the ORX-007 Hati.

Personally I prefer the design of the Braw Bro from Gundam Evolve, which besides looking cooler, replaced all four of its turrets with a version that holds two individual beam guns that can move separately, allowing it to operate 8 separate remote wired beam guns at once:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/evolve/man-03.htm

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