RX-78 Gundam Lineage-AMBAC-Balance Beam Current Transformer

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minovskycore_0180er
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RX-78 Gundam Lineage-AMBAC-Balance Beam Current Transformer

Post by minovskycore_0180er » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:24 pm

Most of this is above and beyond my head, but somewhat of this I can understand. I googled AMBAC, but actually used it full acronym name -Automatic Mass Balance Auto Control. Also I googled it in the image section. I understand that it has something to do with balancing by means of fixed current transformers and active current driven tranformers. But if anyone can understand in fuller length please by all means tell me if these principles can be applied to the RX-78 Gundam lineage and other MS that utillize AMBAC auto-control systems and variants.

Also, this is able to be adapted to electro-projectile launchers, a.k.a. railguns. So for those who are into the GuAIZ R and Freedom/SFreedom and their Xiphias and Pollux railguns, this might perk your interests as their are visual and circuit diagrams that show how to create a rail-launcher out of two small toriod coils. That link is the last listed.

Heres the link:
http://electrogravity.com/AVectorTest/AVecEGOK.html

Also here a schematic of one of the actual circuits:
www.electrogravity.com/AVectorTest/BalBmAmp.gif

Rail-Guns:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/vpexp/
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Post by toysdream » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:35 pm

Oh, my head hurts. :-(

For starters, the "AMBAC" used in Gundam stands for Active Mass Balance Auto Control. Automatic Auto Control would be kind of redundant.

Next, this AMBAC is a hardware and software system that helps the mobile suit maneuver in zero gravity by coordinating the movements of its limbs. It has nothing to do with electrical current or transformers, and less than nothing to do with railguns.

If you're interested in reading more on this subject, you can do so here or here. If you'd rather talk about railguns, then perhaps you should start a thread on that subject.

-- Mark
Last edited by toysdream on Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by J-Lead » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:42 pm

AMBAC (when talking about Mobile suits) is the use of the MS's limbs and appendages (like tail/wing binders) to adjust it's direction without the use of thrusters.
Gundamofficial wrote:Active Mass Balance Auto-Control (AMBAC) -
A system which allows mobile suits to maneuver more efficiently in zero gravity. Conventional spacecraft employ vernier thrusters to change their direction, but using verniers to turn and perform evasive maneuvers in combat consumes a lot of propellant. When the first mobile suits were developed, the engineers of the Zeonic company devised an alternative maneuvering method based on active mass movement.

When one part of a mobile suit is moved, it produces a counter-movement in the opposite direction, as per Newton's Third Law of Motion. For example, when a mobile suit swings its arm to the right, its body turns to the left in response. The AMBAC system uses this effect to adjust the mobile suit's direction without expending propellant. Thus, in zero gravity the mobile suit's arms and legs are not dead weight, but a vital component of its maneuvering system. After the One Year War, some mobile suits are also equipped with movable binders which function as part of the AMBAC system.
In other words, it's a lot like swimming in the water. You ever notice how you adjust your direction while in the pool? You usually manuver your limbs in one direction in order to create a counter-movement and thus, turning your entire body. Mobile Suits use a very similar system to help manuver in space. Pretty much every mobile suit that is space-capable is equipped with AMBAC (maybe excluding a few early Zeon Prototypes before the Zaku I.) Although it's a little subtle, you can see mobile suits using AMBAC very often during space combat in conjunction with their thrusters and apogee motors.

EDIT: Oh my, seems toysdream beat me to the punch. Guess I should've checked first. :lol:
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Post by minovskycore_0180er » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:27 pm

I could understand why your head hurts. Mine did too. but i wasn't asking if this could be converted it AMBAC technology. I was asking if there were principals that could be extracted and applied to an proto-AMBAC systems. Of course, water enviornment are better the atmospheric enviornments when it comes to AMBAC development but water-tested motion stability systems are best for formulating 0G enviorment callabration. However, atmospheric condtions are best for designing AMBAC's that could be found the RX-79[G], RGM-79[G] GM Ground Type, TMF/A-802 BuCUE's and TFA-2 ZuOOT's.

So, could any principle be derived to create a AMBAC callabration for terrestrial envoirments.
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Post by J-Lead » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:17 pm

minovskycore_0180er wrote:I could understand why your head hurts. Mine did too. but i wasn't asking if this could be converted it AMBAC technology. I was asking if there were principals that could be extracted and applied to an proto-AMBAC systems. Of course, water enviornment are better the atmospheric enviornments when it comes to AMBAC development but water-tested motion stability systems are best for formulating 0G enviorment callabration. However, atmospheric condtions are best for designing AMBAC's that could be found the RX-79[G], RGM-79[G] GM Ground Type, TMF/A-802 BuCUE's and TFA-2 ZuOOT's.

So, could any principle be derived to create a AMBAC callabration for terrestrial envoirments.
AMBAC, as far as I know, has nothing to do with MS like the RX-79[G] and RGM-79[G], as those MS aren't even built for space combat (much less manuvering) anyway :lol:. MS on the ground use a different system to create a center of balance and shift it as needed, which is called the Balancer. Unfortunately, Gundamofficial has no definition of the balancer that I could find, but essentially it's a system that coordinates mechanical forces in the the necessary direction and whatnot to prevent the Mobile suit from falling on it's face or back. It also coordinates things like walking, jumping, and kneeling (which, similarly to AMBAC, works in a way kinda similar to the Human Body would in that environment.) Although this is speculation on my part, I think it's the only system that remains active while the Mobile suit is shutdown. You ever see the episode in MS IgLoo where the MS-06J Zaku II's were having trouble manuvering in space? This is because they lack the necessary equipment to manuver in space, and probably the most important part of the said equipment it lacks is the AMBAC program.

As for the AMBAC Zero-g and swimming comparison, I should probably note that in the water, your body still has weight to it, whilst in space, everything is weightless, so it probably takes considerably less movement in space to create a counter movement. :)

(as I side note, I don't remember AMBAC being mentioned when it comes to CE MS, or any AU MS for that matter but I'm sure they use it or at least a similar system.)
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Post by Dark Duel » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:18 pm

J-Lead wrote:(as I side note, I don't remember AMBAC being mentioned when it comes to CE MS, or any AU MS for that matter but I'm sure they use it or at least a similar system.)
They do use AMBAC - It's mentioned in SEED Astray, volume three, when Kisato and "George" launch in the BuCUE in an attempt to give a Lowe a hand in his duel against Rondo Gina Sahaku's Gold Frame Amatu.
"George" uses the BuCUE's limbs to shift it out of the trajectory of a shot from Rondo's beam rifle, and he mentions "AMBAC".
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Post by J-Lead » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:32 pm

I see. Then again, I never fully read Astray, so yeah... :P
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Post by Hyakushiki » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:32 pm

I remember a scene in Gundam Wing where Duo made a comment about the mass balancer being off in a Leo he just stole from a space colony.
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Post by Aegis » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:53 am

And somehow I'd see this as more of a weight or a gear being put off as opposed to... whatever the original topic is trying to get at. Beyond that, AMBAC as a whole is simply about momentum, the UC universe specifically using limbs and binders for said movement in the vacuum of space. I'm afraid I still don't see the relation or the application to be applied from things like electro projectile launchers or otherwise as far as mobile suits go.

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Post by joelfinkle » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:13 am

J-Lead wrote:As for the AMBAC Zero-g and swimming comparison, I should probably note that in the water, your body still has weight to it, whilst in space, everything is weightless, so it probably takes considerably less movement in space to create a counter movement. :)
Sorry, you get the consolation prize -- the beam saber juggling home game.

While there is no weight in space, there is still mass. Counter rotation or thrust are as necessary in space. What you don't have is resistance: you can't push against the water (like kicking your legs to move forward), but on the other hand, you don't have that resistance to slow down movement.

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Post by jam! » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:29 am

People often say space is weightlessness but that's obviously not true.
In free space, a body is simply beyond the immediate effect of the gravity of any planetary body however it is still experiencing the gravitational pull of those said bodies. For instance, we know that the waves of the seas and oceans are caused by the moon's gravitational pull on the Earth hence the moon is also pulling on us however the Earth is pulling on us harder.

Hence, in free space, a body is being pulled on by multiple planetary bodies with none of them exerting a specifically greater force than the others save for distance. This is why space-borne bodies seem to float aimlessly but really and truly they're in orbit as they're being pulled by different planetary bodies and may move from one orbit to another then to another, sometimes slingshotting along the way.

That said, as joelfinkle said, thrusters are absolutely necessary in space and AMBAC is useful to reduce the amount of thrusters needed/amount of fuel consumption.

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Post by Jak Stoller » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:44 am

minovskycore_0180er wrote:I could understand why your head hurts. Mine did too. but i wasn't asking if this could be converted it AMBAC technology. I was asking if there were principals that could be extracted and applied to an proto-AMBAC systems. Of course, water enviornment are better the atmospheric enviornments when it comes to AMBAC development but water-tested motion stability systems are best for formulating 0G enviorment callabration. However, atmospheric condtions are best for designing AMBAC's that could be found the RX-79[G], RGM-79[G] GM Ground Type, TMF/A-802 BuCUE's and TFA-2 ZuOOT's.

So, could any principle be derived to create a AMBAC callabration for terrestrial envoirments.
Oh ouch, i shouldn't have tried at that crap this early in the morning...

But, as stated, this stuff has little to nothing to do with actual AMBAC in the gundam sense (or actually more commonly known as INAFC- Inertial Navigation and Assisted Flight Control in modern fighterjets). All of that is just about electric current and wave reaction... Nothing to do with the active co-ordination of movement of apendage servos in order to produce non-vernier control in a zero G environment, nor the less gymnastic version used by groundpounders.

It actually has alot to do with coilguns and railguns, but thats a diffrent subject.

--Jak

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Post by minovskycore_0180er » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:42 pm

I see. Then I'l' start a new thread using my references and the application toward ZAFT's Xiphais and Pollux Railgun Weapon Systems.
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Re: RX-78 Gundam Lineage-AMBAC-Balance Beam Current Transfor

Post by maxmike » Sun May 26, 2013 8:21 pm

This is the best way to understand AMBAC that I've seen, courtesy of some cats and Smarter Every Day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWbpyjJqrU

Just imagine a Gundam moving it's arms and legs while thrusting towards a colony and you'll get the picture.

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Re: RX-78 Gundam Lineage-AMBAC-Balance Beam Current Transformer

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:25 pm

AMBAC is entirely irrelevant to units not designed to operate in zero-gravity, such as the RX-79[G], RGM-79[G], or ZuOOT, all of which operate exclusively on Earth. Quoting the official definition of the term as per Gundamofficial, from an earlier post:
Active Mass Balance Auto-Control (AMBAC) -
A system which allows mobile suits to maneuver more efficiently in zero gravity. Conventional spacecraft employ vernier thrusters to change their direction, but using verniers to turn and perform evasive maneuvers in combat consumes a lot of propellant. When the first mobile suits were developed, the engineers of the Zeonic company devised an alternative maneuvering method based on active mass movement.
The first and last sentences are the important part. In a nutshell, all AMBAC is is a system that enables a mobile suit operating in zero gravity to move and reorient itself without consuming propellant, simply through movement of its limbs. It is therefore not something that is applicable under normal combat conditions on Earth. The only possible exception would be, I suppose, aquatic-use mobile suits operating underwater, but I don't know how effective it would be in that case.
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"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

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