The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:00 am

Wow, I'm glad I don't have to go looking for examples now.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Imperial » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:15 am

Calubin_175 wrote:It is just as simple as adults versus kids. I am a UC fan and just had a discussion with a newbie modern anime fan who only likes Wing and beyond.

Just ask yourselves some questions.

Why do you watch a certain production/work?
Do you analyse it in an intelligent adult way?
Can the production/work be analysed in an adult way?
Do you find joy in analysing it?
Do you like critiquing work for scholary and hobby purposes?

Obviously, mature anime audiences will find UC more appealing as there are more things to analyse given the long history. Newbie fans just like AU productions/works soley as an anime and nothing more since there is nothing to analyse. Such as neutron Jammer cancellor and Seed power. 00 is a more balanced universe including some plausible science and onscreen emperical evidence to support theories. I personally find the Tieren and Flag as the most appealing mechas of 00.
:shock:

I think it's fair to say that most--if not all--of us watch the giant robots flying across screen in the hopes they will smash things. That's not a forum designed for deep, reflective thinking. I won't say it's impossible. And, certainly, UC has more room for rooting around, but that's not a sign of quality so much as it is a sign of bloated hugeness. More room for analysis is more room for being anal, and that's not always a good thing.

I also find your summation of 00 to be rather strange. 00 is one of the single worst offenders in the realm of ill-defined, we-do-this-because-we-can plot devices in the metaseries. Just look at our old friend, the GN Particle, which can fuel beam weapons, allow flight, reduce weight, generate force fields, induce cellular mutation into an ascended being, trigger bizarre episodes of nudity and psychotherapy, etc. SEED, with its Neutron Jammers and the like, is positively tame by comparison.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Momaru » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:54 am

I totally understand what you mean by UC elitism. Some people for one reason or another just cant get their brains to accept the AU shows since they tend to be quite different than the UC ones. I find this to be kinda frustrating as I think that most of the AU shows are just as entertaining as the UC ones. Except for the few stinkers, but we won't go there as I'd probably start a flame war on accident. I think that part of the problem has to do with that the 'net seems to increase the level of people's meanness. Even I find myself saying things on the 'net that I wouldn't in real life. It probably has something to do with the impersonal nature of the 'net.
Also, I wouldn't say that the number of gundam fans is dwindling, rather, they tend to hide in the woodwork. I meet people somewhat frequently that are like " Oh yeah, I know all about gundam" and have actually watched a bunch of the shows including some that haven't been licensed yet.
Last edited by Momaru on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Gadget » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:26 am

Calubin_175 wrote: In anycase, most people on this forum are respectable intellectuals anyway.
DO NOT LET O'Reagan READ THIS :wink:

(Am I braking rule No. 1 and 5?)

Interesting fact you brought up a Wing fan. I find the war philosophy worthy of a pHD thesis. It's not something I want to think too much about.

Although Imperial brings up good points on the science in AD and CE, what matters most is still how people react to the conflict. And how the character is develop and evolve.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Vent Noir » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:19 am

I've never been a huge UC fan, and generally don't have a problem with them. On the other hand, there are jerks in every fandom, and that includes UC Gundam. I have had some bad experiences on another board with a poster who eventually pretty much admitted that he was trying to make Seed fans leave the forum.

As for Yaoi fangirls... I really don't have a problem with them. It's a generalisation, but I've heard that men tend to be more interested in plot and women tend to be more interested in relationships, but the yaoi fangirls I've spoken to don't really seem to be obsessed with shipping to the exclusion of the plot. And even though I'm not into yaoi, it can be fun to look at things from a different perspective sometimes.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ORegan » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Gadget wrote:
Calubin_175 wrote: In anycase, most people on this forum are respectable intellectuals anyway.
DO NOT LET O'Reagan READ THIS :wink:
Ya'll had best learn to spell my name correctly before you attack my int...intell...intellmagence...my book-learnin' :lol:

I still think most of this elitism comes from everyone comparing the AU's and UC to each other instead of taking them as they are on their own.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:51 pm

ORegan wrote:
InjuredPelican wrote:
ORegan wrote:
Don't you DARE talk about Vageta this way. I swear to God*Vageta* that I will shoot you where you stand in the face with an energy beam. Vageta is 321897x10^4 times stronger than Goku will ever hope to be. He was raised trained and lived as a warrior while Goku sat his fat ass on Earth eating pies and getting his ass whooped by a military infatuated with pretty red ribbons and collecting a dragon's hard orange balls the size of grapefruits. :evil:

I'm joking. I'm just showing any 'elitists' reading this how stupid they look. =P Shadow, don't touch me inappropriately for this XD
Somehow I thought this would happen...

EDIT: I just now saw the dark font...

You didn't read the actual coded text when you clicked the quote button? But how well did I portray an elitist? :P
You were pretty convincing. That's why I thought it was an actual fandom attack.
ORegan wrote:
Gadget wrote:
Calubin_175 wrote:

In anycase, most people on this forum are respectable intellectuals anyway.
DO NOT LET O'Reagan READ THIS :wink:
I still think most of this elitism comes from everyone comparing the AU's and UC to each other instead of taking them as they are on their own. [/color]
True that. That's how I can come off as a UC Elitist. I try not to compare, but when they're both called Gundam its difficult to do that sometimes...
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Geoxile » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:19 am

Elitism goes both ways, there's tons of AU fans that simply detest UC for some unexplainable reason. In any case what's more interesting is that you brought up this topic targeting a specific group. If anywhere else I'd say this is a flamebait topic.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Transfotaku » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:56 am

Having been in the Transformers fandom for ages, I can say this isn't an anomoly to the Gundam fandom. It's sadly part of every fandom, everywhere.

It's always the Old/Original vs the New.

UC Gundam. G1 Transformers. 80s He-Man or GI Joe vs modern. Original Trek vs 90s. Original Star Wars vs Prequels/Clone era.

There's always, always a large and vocal userbase in the fandom proclaiming that only the original few years/productions are 'valid' or 'true' or whatever, and that everything else that comes after is somehow fake or unworthy.

It's always highly annoying, and most often the case, their only (usual) answer as to why the other series/comics/toylines/etc aren't as good is because "They're not the first". So, by that theory, UC Gundam fans would be fans of G Gundam if G was the original in the 70s, and TF fans would be Beast Wars fans if it was the original, etc. Doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, the way I see it, no matter what: Like what you like, enjoy the good parts, ignore the bad. Everyone has their own taste, there's no need to have some fandom war going on just because they like UC or AU (or old vs new, or whatever). They enjoy the same thing you do, just a different series, so make friends with them and enjoy the comradeship. I mean, out of all the billions of people on the planet, how many are Gundam fans? Talk about a minority there! Don't have a fandom civil war, embrace the commonality.

Even if the other people enjoy the stuff you don't like, they still like the same brand you do.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Wellman » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:29 pm

Transfotaku wrote:Having been in the Transformers fandom for ages, I can say this isn't an anomoly to the Gundam fandom. It's sadly part of every fandom, everywhere.

It's always the Old/Original vs the New.

UC Gundam. G1 Transformers. 80s He-Man or GI Joe vs modern. Original Trek vs 90s. Original Star Wars vs Prequels/Clone era.

There's always, always a large and vocal userbase in the fandom proclaiming that only the original few years/productions are 'valid' or 'true' or whatever, and that everything else that comes after is somehow fake or unworthy.

It's always highly annoying, and most often the case, their only (usual) answer as to why the other series/comics/toylines/etc aren't as good is because "They're not the first". So, by that theory, UC Gundam fans would be fans of G Gundam if G was the original in the 70s, and TF fans would be Beast Wars fans if it was the original, etc. Doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, the way I see it, no matter what: Like what you like, enjoy the good parts, ignore the bad. Everyone has their own taste, there's no need to have some fandom war going on just because they like UC or AU (or old vs new, or whatever). They enjoy the same thing you do, just a different series, so make friends with them and enjoy the comradeship. I mean, out of all the billions of people on the planet, how many are Gundam fans? Talk about a minority there! Don't have a fandom civil war, embrace the commonality.

Even if the other people enjoy the stuff you don't like, they still like the same brand you do.
Me, I LOVE Beast Wars and G Gundam along with the original Transformers and UC Gundam shows. I dislike some of the later shows, because they don't add enough differences between the original and the differences they do have are all shallow. Nearly each series is a unique so I honestly don't think fans of one show have to support the rest. Respect should be given for obvious good qualities, rather then mindless hate but if a Gundam show is flawed, there is nothing wrong with pointing it out within reason.

The Gundam brand is a strong one but every large fandom that has numerous series, movies and etc are by nature bound to have civil wars over which one is better. Except Indiana Jones, because Raiders of the Lost Ark is classic.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Zeta21Canes » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:23 am

It's funny you mention this guy. "Mortskcab" is not really a bad guy i actually talked to him on youtube you can see my comments on his channel, you have to understand this guy was pissed off at Gundam Seed fans saying Gundam Seed was the best gundam of all time and that UC gundam are these old shows with ugly animation and that pisses of lots of people especially hardcore UC fans. Me personally i watch all the Gundams, but UC is the best.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Kuruni » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:19 am

I think that's one thing. Some of "elitists" aren't truly hate newer shows, they might found newer show medicore or even good, but with flaws that prevent it to be classic.

It's when such person expose to group of newer fandom - to be fair, are "elitists" too - and get through some extreme attitude (completely ignore show flaws and bombard older show, for instance), said person might deverlop hatre toward fandom and show.

Geez, sometime it get across franchise. I notice number of people express their hatre toward Guren Lagan, most likely because the fandom seem to boast about it being greatest super robot ever.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by sbester » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:19 am

The elitists don't scratch my nerves nearly as bad as the fanboys who love everything Gundam no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I love most things Gundam related, but I'm not afraid to say that I absolutely hated G Gundam, aside from the robot designs it really didn't encompass any of the original Gundam conventions and there should be at least some understanding as to how the UC elitism started.

That being said, I loved all the the other AU shows up to 00 (which I have so far hated, but the one episode of season 2 I've seen was actually entertaining), so I guess I wouldn't classify myself as a UC elitist in that sense. However, there are conventional factors that I believe all Gundam shows should follow, conventions that are present in all UC iterations thus far.

So as for the UC elitists, sure they can be annoying, unintelligible, and just plain offensive, but they aren't always wrong.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Thrawnma » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:44 am

sbester wrote:The elitists don't scratch my nerves nearly as bad as the fanboys who love everything Gundam no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I love most things Gundam related, but I'm not afraid to say that I absolutely hated G Gundam, aside from the robot designs it really didn't encompass any of the original Gundam conventions and there should be at least some understanding as to how the UC elitism started.

That being said, I loved all the the other AU shows up to 00 (which I have so far hated, but the one episode of season 2 I've seen was actually entertaining), so I guess I wouldn't classify myself as a UC elitist in that sense. However, there are conventional factors that I believe all Gundam shows should follow, conventions that are present in all UC iterations thus far.

So as for the UC elitists, sure they can be annoying, unintelligible, and just plain offensive, but they aren't always wrong.
It really is interesting the things that can be used to rouse me from my self imposed exile to post on these forums, and this is one of them.

Ironic, I say, that you choose to single out G Gundam specifically as not staying true to the "UC Roots" when, on the surface and a deeper level, it has the classic archetypal conflicts that Gundam is known for. An earth versus space theme? It's there and reinforced from the beginning by showing how the elite live in space and the low-born of society have to live on the planet they trashed. Is it inverted from UC? Certainly, but the theme is present and strong. Is there a charismatic and mysterious masked man present? Certainly, and one of the best too, in my opinion (In Schwarz at least, since Ulube also counts). The show itself mirrors some of the themes in Char's Counterattack - a desire to restore the earth back to its natural balance by removing the human element. As one of the people who doesn't love all Gundam, but happens to love G Gundam, I'm personally insulted you dismiss it so flippantly without giving it any obvious consideration. It's one of the best, one of the strongest, and one of the most fun and doesn't sacrifice any themes to achieve that. Only someone pretentiously dedicated to not having fun while watching their giant robot cartoons could dismiss it so decidedly.

And 00? Also one of the strongest series, certainly a far stronger entry than either Seed or Destiny, both of which have multiple problems from the moment the universe was created with a shaky foundation of the conflict and the background behind the various reasons WHY things happen, but that has nothing to do with this. 00 falls pretty far in its last collective quarter, and the first eight or so episode of the first season are weak, but on a whole it's probably the strongest crafted, and certainly has some of the best mechanical designs in a Gundam series to date, entry in the franchise. Blending strong characters, excellent mechanical designs, an interesting world setting its only flaw is emulating the UC and to some extent, I'd say, Seed where it did. It could have been the best, by far, but it'll have to settle in its place underneath 0080, First Gundam, ZZ, Wing and G Gundam for me.

But it's alongside 0083 though, and that's not a bad thing either.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by LigerMKII » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:47 am

sbester wrote:The elitists don't scratch my nerves nearly as bad as the fanboys who love everything Gundam no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I love most things Gundam related, but I'm not afraid to say that I absolutely hated G Gundam, aside from the robot designs it really didn't encompass any of the original Gundam conventions and there should be at least some understanding as to how the UC elitism started.

That being said, I loved all the the other AU shows up to 00 (which I have so far hated, but the one episode of season 2 I've seen was actually entertaining), so I guess I wouldn't classify myself as a UC elitist in that sense. However, there are conventional factors that I believe all Gundam shows should follow, conventions that are present in all UC iterations thus far.

So as for the UC elitists, sure they can be annoying, unintelligible, and just plain offensive, but they aren't always wrong.
Oh...OH! Please, allow me to throw myself at your mercy, I the uninformed, ignorant, and wholly worthy of pity peon. I did not know it was looked down upon to enjoy something unbiased, I merely thought that through my own years of experience, that my opinion that all Gundam series were enjoyable unabashedly was an opinion I was privy to! I had no idea that I was oh so wrong.

Are you kidding me? Well, if not then good! Because I'm a very happy fan of all things Gundam. From Turn-A to Zeta, and all points in between. There is no series I hate, despite my bluster over certain AUs, none, and those that I haven't seen I have enough exposure to determine that yes, if I sat through it all, I'd like it. And if my very existence scratches your nerves? Good. I will continue to exist, quite happily.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Big B » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:19 am

I think the elitism of any fanbase comes after people forget that stuff like Gundam is an entertainment show, particularly a fictional one. With that said, I don't try to take what I like and enjoy too far. It's not real, so while I may not care for the UC stuff as much as some AU shows, in the end it's quite silly to get bent out of shape over this and that. If it's for fun, why nitpick? People love Survivor, and I don't...it's just not my cup of tea.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Genocide » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:50 pm

Is it just me, or do complaints about UC elitism creep up every few months or so? Like Chris and Geoxile had pointed out, elitism goes both ways and, as a Universal Century fan who also likes several obscure AU shows, I find it rather annoying how anyone who dislikes an AU offering is automatically considered a UC elitist. On the contrary, no one ever complains if a fan of Wing/SEED/00/etc gives negative comments targeted towards shows like MSG or Zeta. Aside from a few people who might point out disagreements, things are kept civil and they're usually credited for being 'daring' by going against the flow of so-called "popular opinion".

While I don't think this is completely true for this community, I've been bashed several times on other forums and on YouTube (yes, yes I know...) as a UC elitist for claiming that 00 isn't the greatest thing since colored TVs. It's a double standard that's tantamount to the hypocrisy of "No Women Allowed" being sexist, while "No Men Allowed" is gender equality.

Just because someone says, "X is better than Y" doesn't imply they're trying to make a factual statement (aside from blatant internet trolls). In the end, it's a mere opinion regardless of how you view it, and I don't think elitism is even the proper term to use. People are bound to like one thing more than another, and if you label their opinions as elitism or fanaticism, then perhaps you're the one who's too close-minded to accept something different.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Random_GM_Pilot » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:34 pm

Genocide wrote:While I don't think this is completely true for this community, I've been bashed several times on other forums and on YouTube (yes, yes I know...) as a UC elitist for claiming that 00 isn't the greatest thing since colored TVs. It's a double standard that's tantamount to the hypocrisy of "No Women Allowed" being sexist, while "No Men Allowed" is gender equality.
Completely agree.

I love the UC timeline and most of the stories in it, and frankly, I do think it's a continuity that stands above the others in terms of quality (particularly with the triumviri of MSG, Z, and ZZ). But I still thoroughly enjoy most of the AU outings. It's extremely annoying to watch people bash AU shows as a whole (I mean, shows that try to do something different end up being that; different. Imagine that.), but it's every bit as annoying to be accused of being an elitist for not liking something particular. I don't hate 00 for not being UC, I hate it for being (in my opinion) a bad show.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by toysdream » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:43 pm

Genocide wrote:While I don't think this is completely true for this community, I've been bashed several times on other forums and on YouTube (yes, yes I know...) as a UC elitist for claiming that 00 isn't the greatest thing since colored TVs. It's a double standard that's tantamount to the hypocrisy of "No Women Allowed" being sexist, while "No Men Allowed" is gender equality.
Wow, there's nothing that broadens the appeal of a fannish argument like throwing in a random comparison to a controversial political issue, and assuming that everybody in the world agrees with you. I think this is why political discussion is discouraged here. ;-)

-- Mark

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Genocide » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:36 pm

toysdream wrote:Wow, there's nothing that broadens the appeal of a fannish argument like throwing in a random comparison to a controversial political issue, and assuming that everybody in the world agrees with you. I think this is why political discussion is discouraged here. ;-)

-- Mark
Apologies, as I didn't intend to use a controversial issue for comparison, but it was simply the first example that popped into my head. Of course, I never assumed everyone in the world to agree with me either, which is why I believe that regardless of whether the issue is mere fannism or political, you need to regard peoples' opinions as opinions rather than a negative elitist attitude towards others.

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