The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:34 am

ShadowCell wrote:Just remember, you're describing yourself as an elitist in respect to a giant robot cartoon from Japan.
Words to live by.

I may be a pretty big Wing fan, but the general discourse of the fandom bugs me. Ignoring the drooling fangirls who only watch it for hawt bishies (whom I don't even consider fans of the series anyway), there are way too many people who like the show but just plain don't understand it, and will go on at length about how this plot element means that when the truth is they got the message completely backwards. A good example is people who complain that the show didn't have enough fighting.

When it comes to people who have limited experience with the franchise, though, just remember that we were all n00bs once.

And YT comments aren't ALL bad...but then again, most of what I watch on YouTube is Kamen Rider-related materials and episodes of Good Eats, so what do I know? ;)
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Izayuukan » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:50 am

As a fan of Gundam SEED (not is sequel though), and as a person who think Zeta was crap, I actually don't mind those who prefer UC shows. I do however get very annoyed when I meet UC fans who display such condescension towards the fans of AU shows, especially Gundam SEED. Feel free to hate the show, but don't go hating the fans. Of course, it definitely works both ways, and I get ashamed of those AU fans who make fun of people who like UC shows. However, that said, in my personal experience, there are more elitist UC fans than there are elitist AU fans.

To make matters complicated, then there are the people who like both AU shows and UC shows. Unnatural creatures. (/good humour)

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by EZero8 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:29 pm

Izayuukan wrote:However, that said, in my personal experience, there are more elitist UC fans than there are elitist AU fans.
It's very easy for someone to peg that there are "more UC elitists" than AU elitists when one sympathizes with the AU fans. They wouldn't mind or notice the AU guys as much, but once a UC fan group pops up the AU fans are quick to do a body count. The same mindset applies in places where UC fans are more heavily populated than AU fans. It depends on which part of the internet you hang around, really.

I think that's part of the problem to any issue with elitism, a rather one-sided generalization that the "other side" supposedly has more idiots than "your side," and thus you are "better." What does it matter who has more idiots anyways? In the end everyone involved is still retarded. :)
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Gadget » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:32 pm

This 'UC elitism' is brining me back memories of the old 'VS' thread. Remember when Armuro Ray could beat everyone with one hand tie behind his back. He could kick Char, Hero and Kira. Setsuna came in after the 'VS' was dropped.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:42 pm

Izayuukan wrote:To make matters complicated, then there are the people who like both AU shows and UC shows. Unnatural creatures. (/good humour)
EZero8 more or less nailed my response to your post, but I'd like to add to stuff written earlier. As Red said, it seems to me that most fans that could be unfairly labeled "UC elitists" (like Chris pointed out earlier, "UC elitist" has almost been like making the accusation "racist" stick to a modern day political opponent in the US) are among the ones that will quickly proclaim their enjoyment of particular AU shows like G and X. I don't understand why people aren't allowed to like UC and some AU shows, but in the early 2000s it was turned into an us vs. them situation within the fandom.

And Izayuukan probably unknowingly illustrated one of the problems that made the whole thing worse - internet hyperbole. When you're trying to say how middle-ground and understanding you are, saying you think Zeta Gundam (or SEED, or whatever) is "crap" isn't going to exactly win hearts and minds. Back when things were more hostile, sharing your honest opinion just pushed hardliners farther away.

As a UC fan most of the time the only thing that really actually annoys me is fanboyish and narrow-minded stuff like refusing to watch MSG because of the animation quality. And things just as dumb come from UC fanboys, which is evident in YouTube comments like that.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ZeroBusterXX » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:58 pm

I wouldn't call myself a "UC Elitist", even though I do prefer UC Gundam more than some of the AU series.

I honestly like nearly every series. SEED DESTINY wasn't good? So what, doesn't mean SEED was bad or any AU series was bad. The fact of the matter is, with each entry in the franchise having different staff and production teams, they quality is going to vary and not every series is going to be as great as say, Turn A or Zeta.

Every series has it's merits. For some, it's a few characters, for others, it's the designs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I don't think every US series is better than every AU series.

And I agree with AmuroNT1: What IS with all the Wing hate? I really liked it when I watched it all those years ago, and I liked it when I re-watched it earlier in the you.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:26 pm

ZeroBusterXX wrote: And I agree with AmuroNT1: What IS with all the Wing hate? I really liked it when I watched it all those years ago, and I liked it when I re-watched it earlier in the you.
I used to like Wing, but having seen bigger and better series, i.e. MSG, Zeta, Turn A, etc., Wing just seems like a "Gundam-lite" if you will. I think its still entertaining, but its hard not to compare it to other series. I also think Wing could've been better if the direction hadn't switched so suddenly with the emergence of White Fang and Zechs sudden "I'm a Villian now".

Of course me comparing it to UC series and the like is possibly what spawned some of the "UC elitist" labels. But I really like G and Turn A, and enjoyed 00, and really Wing too. SEED had its cool parts, but between all of the flashbacks and the MSG rip off plot development in the first half, I kind of consider it half a series. I like AU series, but I want them to be as good or better than the UC series, even if its in their own special way, like G Gundam.

I'm probably an oddball UC fan anyways, since I don't particularly love 08th MS Team, a constant reference on this forum site.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Izayuukan » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:01 am

InjuredPelican wrote:I like AU series, but I want them to be as good or better than the UC series, even if its in their own special way, like G Gundam.
See, now there's your problem. You make a blanket statement that the UC shows are better, when that's just your personal opinion. Oh sure, many people share that opinion with you, but many people don't. It isn't fact, it is personal preference.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:28 am

Alright, I'm going to lock this thread if it turns into a bunch of fanboys comparing their Gundam elitist dicks.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by QuessParaya » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:18 am

ShadowCell, you owe me a beer for the one that just evacuated itself from my nose because of your last post. :lol: :mrgreen:

I remember a lot of that stuff too, the "fandom factions", the "glitch = hacking!" and wow I've been in this fandom for a long time...

In the end though a lot of it was school yard name-calling. Kinda like a contest of one-upmanship of "$gundam had the better [mech] [hero] [antihero] [plot]" and so on and so forth.

I really wouldn't use YouTube commentary to be the barometer of "popular vs. unpopular" since a lot of it is just a massive dicksize war.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Kishiria » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:51 am

Hey, it's Quess! Good to see you here, buddy!

I'm the biggest UC fangirl out there, but I enjoyed SEED and I've watched Wing two times through. I didn't care for it the first time, liked it a lot more second time round. A friend sent me the first volume of 00 so even though I didn't care for the first five episodes, I'm giving it another chance.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Choos » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:12 am

Wow elitism in anime viewing.

I have loved nearly all UC, X, Wing, Turn-A, Seed & 00 pretty much equally only not being as keen on 0080, F91 & G Saviour.

I have to reserve judgment on G Gundam as I havn't been able to sit through enough of it without drifting off.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:50 am

Izayuukan wrote:
InjuredPelican wrote:I like AU series, but I want them to be as good or better than the UC series, even if its in their own special way, like G Gundam.
See, now there's your problem. You make a blanket statement that the UC shows are better, when that's just your personal opinion. Oh sure, many people share that opinion with you, but many people don't. It isn't fact, it is personal preference.
Well of course its my opinion. Anything pertaining to "feelings" about a show are opinion. I guess myself, just lik eany other fanboys, often fall into "and that's a scientific fact!" rants, even without trying. I know all of the series in Gundam have good stuff in them, UC and AU. If someone finds that SEED Destiny is honestly their favorite Gundam series, cool.

I guess now I sound like a compromising wimp though. But in the end, I really don't care what other people like or dislike. As long as you like Gundam anyways, :lol:/JK.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Red Comet90 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:51 pm

InjuredPelican wrote:I guess now I sound like a compromising wimp though. But in the end, I really don't care what other people like or dislike. As long as you like Gundam anyways, :lol:/JK.
This is the attitude most people should have when it comes to being a UC elitist or w/e they want to label themselves as. As long as you like Gundam you are part of the family. Just because you can't say you love Zeta doesn't mean you aren't a fan.

The only exception should be what Amuro stated earlier: yaoi fangirls. They care for the characters looks and not so much anything to do with the story or the actual characters.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 pm

Red Comet90 wrote: The only exception should be what Amuro stated earlier: yaoi fangirls. They care for the characters looks and not so much anything to do with the story or the actual characters.[/color]
Yaoi fangirls are not fans of anything except their own fantasies. They merely take characters, barely, and mold them into cookie cutter creations of their own desire. Taking a character and then not actually portraying them correctly is not being fan.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Volnixshin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:24 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote: BTW, for the record, I don't think anyone has EVER gotten any official word regarding Tomino's opinion towards AU Gundam. .
I have. Yeah. It was the Big Apple Animefest, this was wayyyy back in 2001/02, I was just getting into conventions and the like, but was already a huge Gundam fan. When I heard Tomino was gonna be there, I near died. At the time I was like 14/15 so to me, Tomino was God. I loved pretty much everything I saw that he was a part of. So anyway, back to the point I'm sure your desiring. When the panel was over, people got to go up. and ask him questions. I was a huge Wing fan, as it had just recently come out in the USA, and so far every question I had heard, and the only thing I understood being talked about, was UC. So me being this young impulsive kid, I asked what his opinion on Wing and AU were. To that point all I knew about was Wing and X. He said, from what I remember, he was interested to see where different directors were taking the idea of Gundam. That was pretty much all he said, but I got the notion he wasn't against AU. After that I think I bragged to my friends I talked to God. ^^
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:56 pm

Volnixshin wrote:He said, from what I remember, he was interested to see where different directors were taking the idea of Gundam. That was pretty much all he said, but I got the notion he wasn't against AU. After that I think I bragged to my friends I talked to God. ^^
Makes sense to me. Considering Tomino went and bothered to include G, Wing, and X in the Turn A back story, it seems he at least is not against AU completely. Whether he likes certain series over others is still in question, but I could see him open to good and new ideas in the realm of Gundam.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:31 pm

I don't think it's quite fair to single out yaoi fangirls for that--especially since yaoi fangirls get plenty of shows and manga and whatever that are full of sexually ambiguous pretty boys to pair off together. Yes, I'm looking at you, Hetalia.

For example, there's the "shippers." I will point you instead towards something called the Zutara Project, where a bunch of self-described Avatar fans are apparently planning to reanimate the last few episodes of Avatar so they get the pairing they want*. If you're going to go so far as overwrite the actual story so that you can get what you want instead of settling for what the story's writers gave you, then that's the point at which I begin to wonder whether or not you're really a fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender and not the fantasies in your/other people's heads that kind of resemble Avatar.

*And for extra depression points, imagine if all those energies were poured into something useful. Like, if you sent them to medical school, or had them become engineers, or diplomats. We could have brought peace to the Middle East using dinosaurs that cured AIDS in a rocket ship on Mars already!

But that isn't exactly restricted to "shippers," either. There's also the people who try to "support" one faction or another within the story. We had one here, who shall remain nameless: he "supported" the antagonists (ex. Britannia in Code Geass, the A-LAWS in 00, the Earth Alliance in DESTINY) and then complained about how the antagonists had a way of losing to the protagonists, as if this was something unexpected or unreasonable. But he is far from the only example: there's also the Zeon fanboys who spend untold hours trying to justify the war crimes Zeon is shown to commit on screen, insisting that it's okay to pump neutral colonies full of poison gas and then lob them at the Earth when you just want your independence. Well, um, yeah, the same way the Zutara shippers look at Avatar and see not Avatar but their own Avatar-like fantasies (and then get offended when Avatar turns out to differ from their fantasies), so too do the Zeon fanboys and their ilk watch their shows and see not the shows but similar fantasies, and then get mad when it turns out that Zeon loses instead of conquering the Earth Sphere, or Lelouch takes over Britannia instead of dying in a hole somewhere and allowing Charles or Schneizel to conquer the world, or the A-LAWS get wiped out or whatever instead of annihilating Celestial Being to the man. The shippers see their fantasies, the "supporters" see a contest.

There is plenty of room for interpretation and not liking Part A of a story but liking Part B, but if you're complaining about how the faction that you're "cheering" for is an antagonist and tends to lose its fights with the protagonists, or if you're complaining about how A is banging B at the end of the story and you wanted A to bang C, well, at that point you're talking about yourself more than the story.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:55 pm

ShadowCell wrote:I don't think it's quite fair to single out yaoi fangirls for that--especially since yaoi fangirls get plenty of shows and manga and whatever that are full of sexually ambiguous pretty boys to pair off together. Yes, I'm looking at you, Hetalia.
As soon as I typed my response I actually realized that. I guess Yaoi fangirls annoy me becuase there's so many, at least it seems so on fanfiction.net. But really shippers of any kind are just as annoying. Like the Vegeta fanboys that cannot comprehend that Goku, despite evidence from animation/manga scenes, is in fact more powerful, and has defeated him several times for that reason. It doesn't matter what proof there is, somehow Vegeta is still stronger and way cooler than everybody. I don't understand why someone's favorite character has to be the "best" character. Its not like your identity is somehow tied to the character's identity...
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ORegan » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:06 pm

InjuredPelican wrote: Like the Vegeta fanboys that cannot comprehend that Goku, despite evidence from animation/manga scenes, is in fact more powerful, and has defeated him several times for that reason. It doesn't matter what proof there is, somehow Vegeta is still stronger and way cooler than everybody. I don't understand why someone's favorite character has to be the "best" character. Its not like your identity is somehow tied to the character's identity...
Don't you DARE talk about Vageta this way. I swear to God*Vageta* that I will shoot you where you stand in the face with an energy beam. Vageta is 321897x10^4 times stronger than Goku will ever hope to be. He was raised trained and lived as a warrior while Goku sat his fat ass on Earth eating pies and getting his ass whooped by a military infatuated with pretty red ribbons and collecting a dragon's hard orange balls the size of grapefruits. :evil:

I'm joking. I'm just showing any 'elitists' reading this how stupid they look. =P Shadow, don't touch me inappropriately for this XD
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