The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

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Wulver
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The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Wulver » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:18 am

I've had a rather perplexing experience over the last two days or so on the comments section for the 0083 first opening over on Youtube.

I think it'd just be easier for me to post a link to the page, rather than copying and pasting everything over here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKkzsxymAbs . I'm "notaphaser", and the person I had the confrontation with is "Mortskcab". It gets triggered from his comment of Tomino hating SEED and 00.

....maybe I was operating under a false sense of security, so to speak, but my experiences on the forum here has never led me to believe that this sort of hairsplitting condescending elitism existed in the Gundam fandom. Star Wars, oh hell yeah, but not Gundam. It shook me up a bit.

I dunno, I'm just not quite sure why a person would act like that. If this is an irrelevant thread feel free to move it or get rid of it or whatever.

Also, you see I linked the dude to this forum, again I apologize, but I've got a slight hope in my head of Mark giving him a beatdown or something. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:00 am

Frankly, I don't think you should give any consideration to anyone who uses THAT word (the rude three-letter slur for gay people). It's an obvious sign that their intelligence is lacking. And this is before you factor in that YouTube comments are pretty much the biggest cesspool on the Internet aside from certain imageboards.

And it's very unfair to look at one foul-mouthed idiot and assume that he speaks for all UC fans. Sure, there's been friction between the two "sides" of the Gundam fandom in the past, but that has thankfully faded with time. While there are always going to be individuals with such...poor attitudes, they aren't necessarily a representative sampling of UC fans as a whole.

BTW, for the record, I don't think anyone has EVER gotten any official word regarding Tomino's opinion towards AU Gundam. I've been a fan for the last decade and I've heard them all: "he throws things at people who asks him Wing questions"; "when Fukuda came to him for advice Tomino handed him a book on Turn A and slammed the door in his face"; "he said that it upset him before but now he thinks he should be encouraging younger directors". To paraphrase one of my favorite novels, rumors are like money; the more they circulate, the less they're worth.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by QubeleyMkIII » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:50 am

Yea you basically said it all in your response. UC Gundam is my thing but I adore G Gundam since it got me into Gundam in the first place. I don't see why they can't be friends but I do understand why one might not appreciate the other. What Gundam is has changed a bit because of AU, but even the side stories changed things by not having newtypes really. I think it has to be what it is, I love G gundam cause I saw it first and because its just So out there. I think as a UC fan myself I do get upset when I hear things about SEED and how it liberally borrowed from UC Gundam almost shamelessly, but (and I haven't watched any of it yet) even if that's true, it doesn't give me a right to look down on a fan cause like you said. It's giving Gundam more attention.

I do think UC Gundam is better in basically everyway, but It doesn't mean EVERY UC Gundam show is good (Lord no look at ZZ Gundam) and not ever AU show is bad. People shouldn't generalize the two and even so this doesn't make me a better Gundam fan then an AU fan. I definitely have UC biased but that's because it has history, I understand why someone might like AU more and that guy was definitely the typical Youtube jerk for being like that about it. Especially in these times I love that newer Gundam shows are getting popular in America, we need more Gundam love and unity so we can get more AU and UC Gundam in the US.

Like getting Turn A and ZZ Gundam on dvd in American would be nice.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Symbolhime » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:22 am

Mortskcab
Yeah, he's a troll. I've seen him before.


Anyway, there is an aura of elitism about some of them, but there's always one group in every fandom that sticks the original on a pedestal. Look at Generation 1 Transformer fans and Pokemon fans who praise only the first 150.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Black Knight » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:12 am

Once upon a time, there was a lot of strife within the Gundam community, and not just between UC and CE fans, though that's where it still seems most common. Feud's between webforums. Vendettas, namecalling, all the worst that fandom and human behavior have to offer. Even somewhat paranoid people being convinced that whenever their website had glitches, it was because some other Gundam webmaster had paid for Russian hackers to attack their site. (Seriously, I saw this more than once.)

Gundam had its share of "I liked it before it was popular" and "I started watching years before Wing aired on Cartoon Network!" people who were disdainful of the newbies. After a few years of being ignored and marginalized by the massive influx of new people, the ones with that kind of bad attitude drifted away, either retaining their fandom but keeping it private, off the few Gundam oases still on the internet, or else they changed their name and realized most people don't care when someone started watching the franchise.

Over time, old feuds and perceived slights can lose meaning, and frankly, the fandom isn't really large enough to be able to absorb the kind of factionalism that used to be rather common.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by pd771 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:29 am

I know eliticism happens from time to time, but it's not a common occurrence. This case seems to be more of a troll.

I will say though, it seems that if you're a fan who is critical of some of the newer series, some assume you're elitist. I've been called a snob and elitist other places for airing my disdain for Destiny. I found it weird, since I think SEED was decent and I really liked 00, but many will just be angry if you don't like what they do.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Kenji » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:30 am

@ Wulver:

YouTube comments seem generally filled with hatred with very little redeeming value. If you think Gundam's got it bad, just check out any hot button political issue that we're never gonna discuss on this forum for that very reason. :P You're better off just ignoring them wholesale.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Chris » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:41 am

pd771 wrote:I will say though, it seems that if you're a fan who is critical of some of the newer series, some assume you're elitist. I've been called a snob and elitist other places for airing my disdain for Destiny. I found it weird, since I think SEED was decent and I really liked 00, but many will just be angry if you don't like what they do.
This is something that rarely gets the spotlight. In a lot of places, if you criticize an AU, you're instantly deemed a "UC elitist" because people just like to throw out that charge to end arguments. In an internet argument, it's the Gundam equivalent of being called a Nazi (see Godwin's Law). This kind of rabid fandom bothers me, because by argument the implication is that being an AU elitist is perfectly ok, but being a "UC elitist" is wrong, judgmental, and narrow-minded.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:20 am

Why would you even read YouTube comments anyway? Science has discovered that reading YouTube comments will make you blind, deaf, dumb, insane, constipated, and impotent.

Mr. T doesn't read YouTube comments. Neither does Jesus. Or MacGuyver. Don't you want to be like Mr. T, Jesus, and MacGuyver?

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by InjuredPelican » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:33 am

Something annoying that happens in RL, is whenever I mention Gundam, someone says something about Wing. I personally can barely stomach Wing anymore, and when I think of Gundam, I think of Amuro, Char, and good ol' RX-78. I haven't been called a UC elitist yet, but that's probably because the people I talked to don't seem to know about any series other than Wing...
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by mcred23 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:15 am

ShadowCell wrote:Why would you even read YouTube comments anyway? Science has discovered that reading YouTube comments will make you blind, deaf, dumb, insane, constipated, and impotent.
Quoted for truth. :mrgreen:

Anyway, as BK mentioned, the whole "UC elitist" thing used to be a real problem (Among others) back in the day. Like Chris said, if you criticized an AU, particularly SEED and/or Destiny, or said your favorite series was from UC (Or worse, one by Tomino), it was almost a certainty that somebody would come along and peg you as a "UC elitist" for either admitting that you prefer the UC works and/or disliked some of the AUs. It was a cheap and easy way for fans of the shows being criticized to dismiss what somebody said. What I always found hilarious about it was that these people who would be called a "UC elitist" were often among the first to point out the flaws in various UC shows, and among the most vocal fans of shows like G, X, and Turn A (Which, back in the day, hadn't been seen by as many English-speaking fans). Granted, there truely were some people who were "UC elitists", people who did hate everything non-UC, but in my experiances (Which only go back to 2003, while Chris and I think BK were around well before that) that number was a lot lower than some people wanted you to believe.

And really, most of those people more or less died off with the majority of the Gundam fan community. As the number of fans, and the places they could talk, dropped, a lot of the deadwood like the elitists and the people who labeled everyone else as one simply went away or chilled the hell out. Still, I remember in the early days of this forum that we still had people who called others "UC elitists", and a few who admited that they were, but with the state Gundam has reached, most people are happy just to have other Gundam fans around and stopped caring about minor disagreements and taste differences and petty crap like that.
InjuredPelican wrote:Something annoying that happens in RL, is whenever I mention Gundam, someone says something about Wing. I personally can barely stomach Wing anymore, and when I think of Gundam, I think of Amuro, Char, and good ol' RX-78. I haven't been called a UC elitist yet, but that's probably because the people I talked to don't seem to know about any series other than Wing...
That is basically because that is the only series the majority of people in America watched, and at this point in time, probably remember anything about.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:26 am

I recall it being less a case of "x number of fans are UC elitists and x number of fans aren't and it's just the Gundam Godwin's law or something" and more a case of "everybody's being dicks."

Which is kind of an iron law of fandom, really. Anywhere, in any fandom, at any given time, somebody will be a dick.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by JQuilty » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:40 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote:BTW, for the record, I don't think anyone has EVER gotten any official word regarding Tomino's opinion towards AU Gundam..
At the 2006 Chicago International Film Festival when A New Translation was being shown, one of the questions asked during the Q&A session was regarding this. He said that he has not really watched any of them and declined to comment further.

I dont't have any audio clips of it, but I was there and I believe a few people from this board were too.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:50 pm

JQuilty wrote:At the 2006 Chicago International Film Festival when A New Translation was being shown, one of the questions asked during the Q&A session was regarding this. He said that he has not really watched any of them and declined to comment further.

I dont't have any audio clips of it, but I was there and I believe a few people from this board were too.
I stand corrected then. And I note that that is a very "diplomatic" answer, not really giving anything away one way or the other. It's probably the only safe answer he could give, though I'm sure there were those out there who heard that and said "See?! The AUs are such crap he couldn't even stand to watch them!!"

Also, I think the best thing to happen to YouTube was the automated voice reading off your comments. XKCD was on to something with that idea.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Imperial » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:35 pm

All the talk of UC elitism and AU-loving is nothing more than fan wank.

Every fan base has some degree of it, whether it's Star Wars fans viciously feuding over the trilogies or Trekkies who seem to enjoy arguing over which captain is the best. The point is not to let it get to you. They're all howling at the moon at the end of the day.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Seraphic » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:00 pm

Hmm.... :roll:

(One of my favorite screenshots, haha.)

So according to mortskcab, I'm not part of the "gundam community", so I guess I should quit while I'm ahead. =( >_> I don't see a problem about not having the opportunity to see all of Gundam yet. The only problem that occurs is when people start talking about things they haven't seen as though they know everything about it. This misinformation seems to be a huge source of frustration, and on occasion, humor. (See screenshot.)

The fans who get in arguments like this should relax and really stop overgeneralizing ideas about both the shows and their fans. People can often only make themselves sound "smart" when they oversimplify their subject. There are shades of gray and nuances to all the shows and each of the fans as well, and frankly I enjoy trying to figure all of it out instead of fighting about it.

Still, I find it unusual sometimes that people don't seem to be allowed to voice opinions or complaints that are in the negative. Why are those people being snuffed out? Shouldn't it be alright so long as their points are reasonable? (Just so long as they don't overexaggerate their opinions to the point of them being ridiculous. "00 is teh werst Gandome evar, lol")

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit strange. I'm rather interested by the subject of "internet etiquette", but I can't help but sound a bit preachy whenever I write about anything. =(
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Red Comet90 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:46 pm

Seraphic wrote:Sorry if I'm sounding a bit strange. I'm rather interested by the subject of "internet etiquette", but I can't help but sound a bit preachy whenever I write about anything. =(
Its alright Seraphic because what you are talking about I have dealt with over and over just when leaving a simple comment like I didn't like this opening or the show and I find it rather interesting too. I remember I left a comment on Winner's Forever. I really like the song, but I honestly care little about Victory and people flamed me for no reason. Of course I slowly whittled them down since I do have my reasons for disliking the show that isn't troll talk.

I think this attitude is created by the preconceptions people have about those who take the negative side of anything at all.Its a preconception that anyone who hates this and this show is a troll only because they go against everyone else and refuse what everyone else thinks is "correct" when really either one is valid. Of course taking the negative side of something and you haven't even watch the show is a different topic altogether.

As long as they have valid reasons for disliking the show why should they be called out and called names over and over with no real reasoning. Its pointless and stupid. I think its interesting though since the words "Don't like" or "hate" are automatically associated with the behavior of a troll since trolls just say everything sucks, but then again how much can you put in a youtube comment? Definitely not the amount of wording in this paragraph.

The whole internet etiquette thing could go on and on, but its just preconceptions by people who are unwilling to believe that something they consider true because its their opinion is false for someone else. It happens all the time and not even just on the internet but even at school or the work place or around town.
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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Wellman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:23 am

I only bring out my UC elitism when it comes to Gundam SEED or Gundam Wing. And by heaven, it is not as if the flaws and the young inexperienced fans of said shows don't sometimes force it out of me.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by ShadowCell » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:54 am

Just remember, you're describing yourself as an elitist in respect to a giant robot cartoon from Japan.

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Re: The Elitism of UC Gundam Fans?

Post by Crusader » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:31 am

The fandom strifes are nothing new. I remember for a while, A lot of people were trying to push Zeta as the greatest thing in all of Gundam. Then the newer shows were being hailed as the greatest in all of gundam(looking at you Seed). When it comes to liking something it's always an opinion and only factual to the person pushing their own beliefs. Perception is reality ya know.

With that said, I've been out of the gundam loop and really only discuss it here on this forum, where everyone for the most part seem level headed and willing to listen to other's opinion even if they disagree. Kudos Mechatalk.net Kudos.

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