Oh, so using the correct terminology is shunned upon, Roger that. I coulda sworn this was the Mecha and Technology section. This amounts to someone calling a Beam Rifle a "gun" and then calling them a mecha-nerd when they point out the mistake. When someone corrects you don't shun it, learn from it.
Onto the design itself, i find it odd that more and more macross designs are incorporating a shield into their design, are they ever explained in setting why they are becoming more implimented?
--Jak
The Official Macross Frontier Mecha Thread: The Final
Your post was an attempt to inject aircraft minutiae into the discussion with just barely there relevance (posted after the fact, when the question had already been asked and answered satisfactorily). It also amounts to name-dropping like mentioning SQL Parser Interface in a discussion about Macross computer networks. In either case, your tone is poor form used in a disingenuous effort to patronize. Perhaps efforts to "correct" your fellow members would come across a lot better without the condescending attitude of "LOL" and "roger that."
I don't believe it's specifically stated in the fiction why shields were implemented in the mid 2030 Valkyrie designs (Macross Plus and beyond). However, given the nature of the variable fighter designs, it's probable the rear fuselage was an extraneous section for a transformable vehicle. Kawamori may have needed to invent a reason for the section that didn't have any purpose beyond making the fighter design look complete. Perhaps a shield was a way to utilize that spare hull area in fighter mode with a legitimate function in GERWALK and Battroid mode.
I don't believe it's specifically stated in the fiction why shields were implemented in the mid 2030 Valkyrie designs (Macross Plus and beyond). However, given the nature of the variable fighter designs, it's probable the rear fuselage was an extraneous section for a transformable vehicle. Kawamori may have needed to invent a reason for the section that didn't have any purpose beyond making the fighter design look complete. Perhaps a shield was a way to utilize that spare hull area in fighter mode with a legitimate function in GERWALK and Battroid mode.
Hi everybody
First of all, excuse me if I make some spelling errors, english is not my mothertongue.
I've been coming to this forum for a long time now, but this is the first time I've posted anything, because, well, almost always someone asks the questions I'd like answered ... so I just never bothered
So why post now? Because I noticed something in the trailer and no one's even mentioned it. And it's been driving me nuts!!
Did anyone else notice that the way the pilot controls the battroid in a completly new way. It appears that the pilot dons some sort of "harnas which, I'm guessing, allows him to move freely and the battroid following his own movements. (I hope I'm making myself understandable here).
You can see what I'm talking about at 1:14 to 1:16 in the first trailer. It flashes by real quick, but if you pause it, you can clearly see the pilots hands coming out of a robotic arm, same goes for his feet.
Thoughts?
Mr March, thanks for new pictures.
It looks like the VF-25 is able to deploy and use it's wings in battroid mode.
You can see it in the picture of the white VF25 on the bottom of the page (it's clearest in the second picture you posted). That's new isn't it?
Or maybe it's a pic during the transformation ...
btw ... I absolutly love your site. Keep up the good work!
First of all, excuse me if I make some spelling errors, english is not my mothertongue.
I've been coming to this forum for a long time now, but this is the first time I've posted anything, because, well, almost always someone asks the questions I'd like answered ... so I just never bothered
So why post now? Because I noticed something in the trailer and no one's even mentioned it. And it's been driving me nuts!!
Did anyone else notice that the way the pilot controls the battroid in a completly new way. It appears that the pilot dons some sort of "harnas which, I'm guessing, allows him to move freely and the battroid following his own movements. (I hope I'm making myself understandable here).
You can see what I'm talking about at 1:14 to 1:16 in the first trailer. It flashes by real quick, but if you pause it, you can clearly see the pilots hands coming out of a robotic arm, same goes for his feet.
Thoughts?
Mr March, thanks for new pictures.
It looks like the VF-25 is able to deploy and use it's wings in battroid mode.
You can see it in the picture of the white VF25 on the bottom of the page (it's clearest in the second picture you posted). That's new isn't it?
Or maybe it's a pic during the transformation ...
btw ... I absolutly love your site. Keep up the good work!
Last edited by Mich-79 on Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the MAHQ forums Mich-79!
The robot arms don't appear to be used inside the cockpit. If you look closely the scene in which they are depicted seems to take place elsewhere. A major setting for Macross Frontier seems to be the school. The main character attends what is likely a vocational school of some kind for piloting variable fighters. It's been suggested the robotic arms seen in the trailer represent a type of Battroid pilot training.
PS. Thank you for the praise, Mich-79. Make sure to keep visiting my website for more updates
The robot arms don't appear to be used inside the cockpit. If you look closely the scene in which they are depicted seems to take place elsewhere. A major setting for Macross Frontier seems to be the school. The main character attends what is likely a vocational school of some kind for piloting variable fighters. It's been suggested the robotic arms seen in the trailer represent a type of Battroid pilot training.
PS. Thank you for the praise, Mich-79. Make sure to keep visiting my website for more updates
Thanks MrMarch, I'm glad I finally joined
But I'm not gonna take this topic in that direction, more than enough of those allready on the board.
Btw, you ninja'ed me! I edited my first post while you replied.
That's to bad ... I would have loved it if they would've used that type of control system. It always seemed more realistic to control a Mecha that way then with a couple of joystick and paddels, to me at least.MrMarch wrote: The robot arms don't appear to be used inside the cockpit. If you look closely the scene in which they are depicted seems to take place elsewhere. A major setting for Macross Frontier seems to be the school. The main character attends what is likely a vocational school of some kind for piloting variable fighters. It's been suggested the robotic arms seen in the trailer represent a type of Battroid pilot training.
But I'm not gonna take this topic in that direction, more than enough of those allready on the board.
Btw, you ninja'ed me! I edited my first post while you replied.
Whoops
The VF-25 is definitely not the first Valkyrie able to deploy the wings in Battroid mode. All the way back to Macross Do You Remember Love? in 1984 the Valkyries were featured with their wings deployed (Max in his VF-1S when fighting against Milia in her Q-Rau). The YF-21 in Macross Plus was shown extending the main wings after it was caught by Isamu in the VF-11. Lastly, the VF-0 and SV-51 in Macross Zero were also shown with their wings deployed in Battroid mode. The SV-51 wings even appear to flap
The VF-25 does do something entirely different from all the other Valkyries; the wings are stored perpendicular to the body in Battroid mode.
The VF-25 is definitely not the first Valkyrie able to deploy the wings in Battroid mode. All the way back to Macross Do You Remember Love? in 1984 the Valkyries were featured with their wings deployed (Max in his VF-1S when fighting against Milia in her Q-Rau). The YF-21 in Macross Plus was shown extending the main wings after it was caught by Isamu in the VF-11. Lastly, the VF-0 and SV-51 in Macross Zero were also shown with their wings deployed in Battroid mode. The SV-51 wings even appear to flap
The VF-25 does do something entirely different from all the other Valkyries; the wings are stored perpendicular to the body in Battroid mode.
What anime harem setting. This is a Macross tradition. Think of the bridge in SDF-1. Ok. that guy is a way olderman.V2 wrote:heh. typical anime harem setting.
In fairness, this is not the first time that si-fi story uses such setting. In the novel 'Starship Troopers' (not the movie) , starship pilots are usually woman and mobile infantry are man. The reason given is that woman got better reflexes, and man got more muscle mass.
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Sulendil Zeta
- Posts: 286
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:01 am
- Location: Malaysia
Nice picture of VF-25. BTW, do I seeing things, or that the fighter mode of VF-25 are carrying the external micro-missile pod on its wing? I though for such advance VF, does it even need to mount any weapons on the wing? Or does VF-25 using the principle of VF-11, where micro-missile is only an optional weapon?
V2
Seems very unlikely Macross Frontier would be a harem anime.
Sulendil Zeta
Underwing ordnance seems to be more prevalent in Macross Frontier again. Though to be accurate, Macross has never abandoned underwing ordnance, not even the most advanced Valkyries. The Macross Plus era mecha had underwing ordnance (though they were never shown animated). Also, the VF-17 Nightmare was shown using Super Parts with underwing ordnance in Macross 7 (super part missile launchers).
Interestingly enough, the underwing missile pods shown in the Macross Frontier trailer appear to be similar to the YF-19's green colored, underwing missile pods which were never animated. It appears Kawamori liked the idea, but never got to utilize it in Macross Plus. Here's a picture showing all the YF-19's underwing ordnance:
YF-19 underwing missile ordnance
The green pods on the right hand side look similar to the Macross Frontier launcher pods on the VF-171* variable fighter.
Seems very unlikely Macross Frontier would be a harem anime.
Sulendil Zeta
Underwing ordnance seems to be more prevalent in Macross Frontier again. Though to be accurate, Macross has never abandoned underwing ordnance, not even the most advanced Valkyries. The Macross Plus era mecha had underwing ordnance (though they were never shown animated). Also, the VF-17 Nightmare was shown using Super Parts with underwing ordnance in Macross 7 (super part missile launchers).
Interestingly enough, the underwing missile pods shown in the Macross Frontier trailer appear to be similar to the YF-19's green colored, underwing missile pods which were never animated. It appears Kawamori liked the idea, but never got to utilize it in Macross Plus. Here's a picture showing all the YF-19's underwing ordnance:
YF-19 underwing missile ordnance
The green pods on the right hand side look similar to the Macross Frontier launcher pods on the VF-171* variable fighter.
That's actually what I meant by "deploying" their wings.MrMarch wrote:The VF-25 does do something entirely different from all the other Valkyries; the wings are stored perpendicular to the body in Battroid mode.
Sorry, I wasn't too clear on that ...
I think they're able to be stored either perpendicular or flat against the back of the battroid. I can be wrong of course, but the wings seem to be stored like previous Valkyries in the pictures you posted. (those are the wings you see behind it's arm, right?)
Having perpendicular wings should help during atmospheric (spelling?) flight and firing external missiles ... I think, I'm no expert...
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Sulendil Zeta
- Posts: 286
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- Location: Malaysia
So, the correct term is 'underwing ordnance'? I sucks at aerodynamic terms. Wish there's someone can teach me those stuff, or at least point out where to learn them.
Back to the topic, it's quite a news for me that VF in M7 still use those underwing ordnance, although I suspect that it's a rare case for something like VF-17, which put stealth more important than sheer firepower. With their return in Macross Frontier, is that mean that UN Spacy have put stealth a lower priority, or their stealth technology is so good that putting those underwing ordnance won't affect the stealth capacity of the VF?
Back to the topic, it's quite a news for me that VF in M7 still use those underwing ordnance, although I suspect that it's a rare case for something like VF-17, which put stealth more important than sheer firepower. With their return in Macross Frontier, is that mean that UN Spacy have put stealth a lower priority, or their stealth technology is so good that putting those underwing ordnance won't affect the stealth capacity of the VF?
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Koshernova
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:30 am
- Location: Glasgow (the city, not the Knightmare Frame)
whoa.MrMarch wrote: YF-19 underwing missile ordnance.
mrmarch, can you describe what kind of missle is which? and i noticed that the missiles beside guld are similar to the nuke missiles used by the VF-1.
and did they omit the bayonet on the gunpod (like the VF-11 has)?
Mich-79
No problem.
I think you may be correct about the wings. Even though they appear to be stored perpendicular by default, the newest high resolution scans of the VF-25 Battroid appear to show the wings on hinges. There's definitely the possibility for some movement from perpendicular to parallel. The trailer also seems to suggest vertical movement as well. If the wings are fitted with vernier thrusters (very likely) the new wing design could be acting as thrusting vanes for the Battroid. And of course, the perpendicular wings would allow the VF-25 to carry underwing ordnance even in Battroid mode without extending it's wings like the VF-1 and other such Valkyries.
Sulendil Zeta
"Underwing ordnance" isn't official lingo so much as it is simply a very accurate description.
Internal ordnance was the call of the times for the 2030's to 2040's era in Macross as was stealth technology. The VF-17 does indeed only use the Super Pack system with underwing launcher sparingly (especially since it is already primarily designed for high performance in space). That doesn't mean priorities don't change. People often mistakenly assume that anything different from current military doctrine in real life (read: US) is "incorrect" or "less advanced." Read Australia's military breif on the nature of the JSF F-35 and it's lacking capability against the Sukhoi SU-30 being deployed in the south east Asia. You'll see its a big wake up call for the stealth-obsessed modern military thinking. A lot of tried and true methods for modern air combat are proving why they are tried and true once again
Who knows what circumstances may have brought about a strong move toward underwing ordnance once again. But that's warfare for you; constantly changing.
Kosh
Sure would put a whole new spin on the infamous bridge bunnies of Macross 
V2
I can't identify all of them, since they are not all identifable (at least to my knowledge). But I'll identify the ones I do know. Going from top-to-bottom and left-to-right (using roughly three rows, excluding the fold booster):
(top left)
Fold Booster
(first row, left-to-right)
Unknown set of 3 x olive missiles
Unknown set of 3 x large green bombs
1 x starboard semi-fixed internal Mauler REB-20G converging energy cannon
1 x port semi-fixed internal Mauler REB-20G converging energy cannon
Unknown set of boxes (possibly 3 x chaff packs)
3 x micro-missile launcher pods
Unknown set of 2 x white and blue missiles
(second row, left-to-right)
3 x AIM-225 long-range high-maneuverability missiles
4 x AIM-225 long-range high-maneuverability missiles
(third row, left-to-right)
5 x Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missiles
8 x Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missiles
(bottom center page)
1 x Howard GU-15 new standard external gatling gun pod
The YF-19's Howard GU-15 Gun Pod does not have an anti-armor bayonet. It's a completely new and different gun pod design from the VF-11's 30mm Gun Pod with bayonet. The anti-armor bayonet was exclusive to the VF-11's 30 mm gun pod, likely just added for a more spectacular battle sequence and no other reason. And it works, easily one of the most amazing mecha introductions in anime history
No problem.
I think you may be correct about the wings. Even though they appear to be stored perpendicular by default, the newest high resolution scans of the VF-25 Battroid appear to show the wings on hinges. There's definitely the possibility for some movement from perpendicular to parallel. The trailer also seems to suggest vertical movement as well. If the wings are fitted with vernier thrusters (very likely) the new wing design could be acting as thrusting vanes for the Battroid. And of course, the perpendicular wings would allow the VF-25 to carry underwing ordnance even in Battroid mode without extending it's wings like the VF-1 and other such Valkyries.
Sulendil Zeta
"Underwing ordnance" isn't official lingo so much as it is simply a very accurate description.
Internal ordnance was the call of the times for the 2030's to 2040's era in Macross as was stealth technology. The VF-17 does indeed only use the Super Pack system with underwing launcher sparingly (especially since it is already primarily designed for high performance in space). That doesn't mean priorities don't change. People often mistakenly assume that anything different from current military doctrine in real life (read: US) is "incorrect" or "less advanced." Read Australia's military breif on the nature of the JSF F-35 and it's lacking capability against the Sukhoi SU-30 being deployed in the south east Asia. You'll see its a big wake up call for the stealth-obsessed modern military thinking. A lot of tried and true methods for modern air combat are proving why they are tried and true once again
Who knows what circumstances may have brought about a strong move toward underwing ordnance once again. But that's warfare for you; constantly changing.
Kosh
Sure would put a whole new spin on the infamous bridge bunnies of Macross
V2
I can't identify all of them, since they are not all identifable (at least to my knowledge). But I'll identify the ones I do know. Going from top-to-bottom and left-to-right (using roughly three rows, excluding the fold booster):
(top left)
Fold Booster
(first row, left-to-right)
Unknown set of 3 x olive missiles
Unknown set of 3 x large green bombs
1 x starboard semi-fixed internal Mauler REB-20G converging energy cannon
1 x port semi-fixed internal Mauler REB-20G converging energy cannon
Unknown set of boxes (possibly 3 x chaff packs)
3 x micro-missile launcher pods
Unknown set of 2 x white and blue missiles
(second row, left-to-right)
3 x AIM-225 long-range high-maneuverability missiles
4 x AIM-225 long-range high-maneuverability missiles
(third row, left-to-right)
5 x Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missiles
8 x Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missiles
(bottom center page)
1 x Howard GU-15 new standard external gatling gun pod
The YF-19's Howard GU-15 Gun Pod does not have an anti-armor bayonet. It's a completely new and different gun pod design from the VF-11's 30mm Gun Pod with bayonet. The anti-armor bayonet was exclusive to the VF-11's 30 mm gun pod, likely just added for a more spectacular battle sequence and no other reason. And it works, easily one of the most amazing mecha introductions in anime history
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r34racer01
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:12 pm
- Contact:
hmmmmmmmm........
So any thoughts for those who have seen the first ep. I myself am loving the look of the fighters. The VF-25 is awesome as expected but I rather like the look of the VF-171. Kinda reminds me of the F-22 and F-35 a little. Too bad its such a piece of cannon fodder, we never even get to see its battroid or gerwalk modes.
Don't steal, the government hates competition.
That was one thing that was certainly ironic. The VF-17 Nightmare was essentially an "elite" unit when it was introduced in Macross 7
Now, it's descendant apparently has taken the cannon fodder role from the VF-11 Thunderbolt.
That said, I'm still not entirely sure what that huge fin on the bottom of the radome variation VF-171 is. The ELINT Valk from original Macross was a bit unwieldly, but we've seen a Radome Nightmare before, and it just had the dish. Either the -171's additional fin increases the sensor range considerably, or miniaturization of components has gone backwards.
Now, it's descendant apparently has taken the cannon fodder role from the VF-11 Thunderbolt.
That said, I'm still not entirely sure what that huge fin on the bottom of the radome variation VF-171 is. The ELINT Valk from original Macross was a bit unwieldly, but we've seen a Radome Nightmare before, and it just had the dish. Either the -171's additional fin increases the sensor range considerably, or miniaturization of components has gone backwards.
SNT1 wrote:"Doubt" shouldn't ever be mentioned when describing 00-Raiser (or its armaments)
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stormturmoil
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:54 pm
- Location: Northern England, UK
Well, In universe, it's probably because Missiles are becoming less and less effective. What with massive improvements in fighter speed and maneuverability, to the point that high end units like the VF-22 can completely outrun and outmaneuver even the newest high-manouvre missiles, coupled with advances in stealth technology, ECM, the prevalence of turret lasers that can intercept missiles easily and the ability to shoot down missiles with the gunpods as well, Missiles, even when spammed in huge numbers, just aren't reliable as a means of fighter to fighter attack.Onto the design itself, i find it odd that more and more macross designs are incorporating a shield into their design, are they ever explained in setting why they are becoming more implimented?
Which leaves a growing acceptance and dependence on direct fire weapons - in other words, guns.
So, what do you do about guns?
Well, you can always try to avoid being targeted, or if that fails, try to avoid being hit by moving out of the line of fire before the rounds connect...
But if that's not possible, if there's too much incoming fire or too many attacks boxing you in...
well, a shield allows you a possible chance to survive being lined up and fired at with direct fire weapons.
Even more so since the later models like the VF-19 and VF-22 offered the inclusion of reinforcing the physical shield with a pinpoint barrier, meaning even serious direct firepower could be survived.
so in a gunfight between otherwise equal variable fighters the Shield offers a potential survivability advantage over a unit without.