Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Agreed if the GN Tau is an electricity to GN Particle converter it's most likely not 100% efficient.

When it comes to more energy than all of Earth what does that mean exactly? More energy than all the geothermal or hydroelectric energy Earth can provide? More than every combustible material on earth? Or more energy than what every powerplant on earth currently produces?

I was thinking they were referring to the last option. If it's the last one then if a single Tau drive produces more energy than every current powerplant on Earth that statement seems silly. Hypothetically if they have the technology to make a Tau drive which outproduces every current powerplant, then they have the technology to make a powerplant that can produce as much energy as that Tau Drive (and without conversion loss). In short if I can make a MS reactor with lots of power, I should be able to make a stationary reactor with the same or equal power.

Perhaps that statement was trying to say the invention of this new technology could produce more power than all previous generation of power production equipment combined.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Hmm I think I screwed the translation up. :(

It actually says they can't power the world, not that they have more power/energy than the world but can't exist. :?

So forget about this whole more than Earth thing, thats my bad.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna hide in a closet. :arrow:
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Oh that's quite alright!

It was an exceptionally interesting conversation and I'm glad you were willing to share so much knowledge. I also never knew about Kardashev class that MythSearcher mentioned, so it was a really interesting thought to think about what exactly producing more power than Earth has really means.

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For another impractical weapon there is the Agg and it's missile launcher equipped variant. While I generally find drill hands to be an exciting prospect the Agg in-universe doesn't appear to have much combat use outside it's specialized purpose of drilling through rock in order to launch a surprise attack on Jaburo. The MAHQ profile offers lists this humorous note: "its combat capability was almost nil". If you take a look at this magazine spread we see the Agg amounts to a stepping stool for the Gundam.

While we see drill weapons used to great success in other Mecha anime they don't appear to be very useful in the official Gundam universe. When it comes to games the Agg recently debuted in Gundam Battle Operation 2 (GBO2) where it's hover legs, missiles, & mining laser made for a decent set up prior to a powerful windup drill attack being launched.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

MythSearcher wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:33 am About this, I have heard of this discussion in the Chinese community around a decade ago. The fan explanation goes like this: (I have not checked if this is from an official account or not.)
Heat weapons face the oxidation problem and will likely become brittle after use(whether it is metal or ceramic), so Norris might be saving the weapon for a target that requires it most and use it as a cold weapon for targets he can surely struck the weak points and disable without the heat.
Quick follow-up on this one. I was looking through Plot to Assassinate Gihren again and I actually noticed a scene of the Gouf Custom's sword blocking a beam saber. Vol4, CH28, right after Vanessa and Gaius make it to the roof we see the Gouf Custom embroiled in melee combat.

Unfortunately since it's black and white it's hard to tell whether the heat effect has been turned on. You'd think since it's snowing in this scene it'd be easy to tell since we'd see some steam or sublimation.

I've heard Lost War Chronicles has a Gouf who's heat sword is ineffective due to a water sequence. I don't know if that's a Gouf or Gouf Custom though.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Might as well add AGE to the physical weapon thing. There's a few more than what's written here but I am too tired to finish it, so maybe another time.

AGE-1 Titus' fists
Full background story is needed here. The AGE-1 Normal's DODS Rifle with its drill beam feature was created by the AGE System as a weapon with enough penetration to defeat Vagan armor as standard EF beams could not do it. As a countermeasure, the Vagans created the Electromagnetic Armor field system on its new unit the Baqto as a counter to that. Titus with its fists was created as a countermeasure to to that countermeasure, like the solid GN Sword against GN Field on 00. Additional reasons was also to minimize collateral damage in close quarters combat as ranged beam weaponry in a closed colony, as a response to the issues encountered by AGE-1 Normal. Flit as an adult commander later would also deploy his Adele pilots with Titus wears in a colony as well, to reduce collateral.

AGE-1 Spallow's Shiguru Blade
Spallow itself was developed as a counter to the Zedas, which is a really fast Vagan machine. The main reason for the Shiguru Blade and lack on beams was noted to be because a certain degree of less detectability was needed on the Spallow so the MG notes that parts and mechanisms than violently emit electromagnetic waves were minimized.

The Shiguru Blade is noted to be really high in mass (while being very small, thus high density) and hard to wield by normal MS. The high mass of the blade plus the extremely sharp edge and high thrust/mobility of the Spallow was designed to maximize that offensive cutting power as it puts the entire weight of the body on the slash, and not by just moving the arm. The blade cannot be used for long as the material degrades really fast after hitting and needs to be renewed.

While I don't think the Spallow design doesnt have a use, it seems a little more disconnected than say Titus vs Electromagnetic Armor in an enclosed colony, which feels really on point. I would have assumed a high speed, high mobility type with rapid fire would be more suited as a Zedas counter than a heavy, small hard to wield blade. But maybe only the Shiguru Blade design would have the power perhaps *shrugs*.

AGE-1 Razor's Razor Blades
An even more peaky version of the AGE-1 Spallow, this time doubling down on the Shigeru Blade technology with the specific design intent of countering the high wear rate of the blade by giving Razor more AND larger versions of them, including on both arms and legs. Does away with the lightweightness and high output thruster while using inertia mostly for the wording. Extreme imbalance makes it difficult for non X-Rounders to pilot with all the info processing needed which Flit being one is likely part of the design consideration by the AGE System. Presumably greatly increase attack power and longevity of the weapon at the cost of pretty much everything else. Can't remember whether it was fighting anything specific in the chapter. I recall Flit was older in this chapter so the harder to pilot design is likely also to his powers and experiences growing to counteract some issues with the old Shiguru Blade design.

AGE-2 Double Blade
Dual blade design seems to be designed in response to Asemu's preference of dual wielding, especially seen with his beam saber use of the AGE-1, which was also incorporated in Double Bullet later. The wire blade of the main binder is cool as it adds ranged capability to melee weapons, though I wonder whether there's any specific advantage to solid melee weapons here since its not as specialized as say, he Shiguru Blade with its ultra sharpness or have barrier cutting abilities of the 00 GN Sword. The blade on the knee can be used as heat blades when attached to the arm, this one might have more power I supposed with that heat. Standard dual beam sabers remain.

The wire scissor can also be used to retrain and draw in opponents, where I presume the handheld heat blades can finish them off. Good for close combat where you wsnt to minimize beam use but I don't see this being useful in a large environment, unlike the later Dark Hound this doesn't have any ranged beams. Not sure whether it can pierce Electromagnetic Armor but I can see the usefulness if it could, making this a Titus 2.0 of sorts. Double Blade also brought about improvements to Double Bullet's Strider Mode's aerodynamics. Really disliking the lack of any ranged beam weapons here, which is fine in something like the Titus, which was a specific wear fast-developed to counter a specific problem, whereas this was a general wear developed for general situations from my understanding. Still it was only in the test phase in chapter, albeit was forced into emergency combat so maybe its better if seen as a testbed platform which might be modified later. Certainly the later Dark Hound seemed to get the balance better between physical melee and beams.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Thanks for your hard work! I'm not familiar with AGE at all so this was a very informative read for me.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Minor update to the topic with the 00 section.

I'm doing some analysis on a 00 sourcebook, 300 Years Later and saw something related to this physical blade topic at Page 59.
GN Beam Saber
A weapon made into a saber by making a blade-shaped membrane with positrons and filling it with GN particles.  Since it is coated with positrons, it can also be used to clash with a physical sword.  The length can be adjusted, and there are normal length and short length (beam dagger).

ポジトロン(陽電子)で刀身状の膜を作り、その中をGN粒子で満たすことによってサーベルとした武器。ポジトロンでコーティングされているため、実体剣とつばぜり合いを行うこともできる。長さの調節が可能で、通常の長さのものと短いもの(ビームダガー)がある。
It seems that in Gundam 00 beam sabers work by using a positron field and it's this positron field that also allows them to clash with solid blades.

Haven't found an equivalent explanation for the Plasma Swords used by the Enacts/Flag though. They have also been seen to clash with physical swords in the anime I recall.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

SonicSP wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:26 am It seems that in Gundam 00 beam sabers work by using a positron field and it's this positron field that also allows them to clash with solid blades.
... that makes no sense at all. :lol:

Positrons are ANTIMATTER... the antiparticle equivalent to the electron. That almost certainly would not facilitate the beam saber behaving like a physical object around solid blades. If anything, that'd make the beam saber inoperable in atmosphere since the field would be constantly lost to pair-annihilation.
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Seto Kaiba wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:15 pm
SonicSP wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:26 am It seems that in Gundam 00 beam sabers work by using a positron field and it's this positron field that also allows them to clash with solid blades.
... that makes no sense at all. :lol:

Positrons are ANTIMATTER... the antiparticle equivalent to the electron. That almost certainly would not facilitate the beam saber behaving like a physical object around solid blades. If anything, that'd make the beam saber inoperable in atmosphere since the field would be constantly lost to pair-annihilation.
Someone need to teach them real Physics...
Actually, I think that is mentioned in Eva, can't they just watch Eva?
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

MythSearcher wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:06 am Someone need to teach them real Physics...
It's especially egregious given that they've already got several flavors of completely made-up exotic particles that could do the job easily given that they're used in force fields and such.

Switch those assignments, and you might have something terrifying... a GN particle-jacketed antimatter blowtorch...

MythSearcher wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:06 am Actually, I think that is mentioned in Eva, can't they just watch Eva?
It's been a while, but IIRC at one point NERV did kill an angel with a positron beam weapon that needed so much power to operate that they had to divert the output of entire electrical grid of Japan to charge it for a single shot. (Which, if you consider how much energy it takes to produce antimatter, is probably still hilariously underselling the energy needed.)
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Re: Practicality of Physical Melee Weapons in Gundam

Seto Kaiba wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:26 am It's especially egregious given that they've already got several flavors of completely made-up exotic particles that could do the job easily given that they're used in force fields and such.

Switch those assignments, and you might have something terrifying... a GN particle-jacketed antimatter blowtorch...
Yeah, I had to look twice to confirm it is not GN particle covering anti-matter.
It's been a while, but IIRC at one point NERV did kill an angel with a positron beam weapon that needed so much power to operate that they had to divert the output of entire electrical grid of Japan to charge it for a single shot. (Which, if you consider how much energy it takes to produce antimatter, is probably still hilariously underselling the energy needed.)
Well, the power isn't for generating the positron, just for shooting the positron out.
They loaded the positron cartridges in the chamber like rifle rounds.
Thus later you get the mass production positron rifle that Unit 2 used on 15th Angel but cannot reach orbit that didn't need the insane power requirement.
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