How do you envision PLANT?

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MythSearcher
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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:45 am

Deacon Blues wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 pm

This is how misinformation starts and it needs to stop.

You're so steadfast in your hatred for the show you're mentioning something that was not present in the video presentation of the 40th. I watched it and don't recall anything of the sort. As I stated, one of the producers claimed it was some parallel history to the main timeline but we don't even know what that means. If you can't present your facts, then don't stick your opinion onto them. We already have enough convoluted misinformation about Origin and Thunderbolt. We don't need more.
Because I have actually seen the capture screen.
But anyway, took me some time to find but we have another source that you can see:
https://www.gundam.info/news/publicatio ... 18_12.html
From 宇宙世紀メモリアル, Official sample on the left side of the second row.
TB is listed with Origin as Another UC (The gray bar on the right of the box surrounding the title.)
All other listed series do not have such treatment.

Except those were staffers who represent Gundam... So again, how is that relevant? Gundam Officials encyclopedia is not a definitive Gundam book. It too has errors. Later publications contradict this book ten times over. Published sources are never accurate. If that's true, then the Gray Phantom from 0080 is actually the Troy Horse because B-CLUB says so according to old lineart files (as an example). There is no strict canon and never will be, honestly.
You are saying the Officials is not the definitive book?
Please explain the term "Officials"
The Japanese title states very specificly that it is 公式, which is also official.

Gundam Officials is THE official book that collects and consolidate all of the contradictions.
Anything given after it and is contradictory is of course then not official.

What does Origin have to do with 0083? I don't recall reading that in his bio so I'll have to double check but the radio silence isn't exactly true either... 0081 Avant title has Erich being lied to about the status of things from the Dolos.
I am just giving samples, I am not saying Origin has anything to do with 0083.

Radio silence is the state of ABQ HQ, ships out there are still communicating with each other, they just won't receive anything from HQ because Kycillia took over and ordered not to give out the info of Gihren's death while she was away talking to Char.

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yazi88
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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by yazi88 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:45 am

https://www.gundam.info/content/dam/gun ... 20(14).jpg

Is this the image about this Thunderbolt thing?

Gundam books and reference guides have a long history of contradicting each other often. Officials is the same way too. Why would a franchise like Gundam, that has had so many inconsistent and overwritten books/publications, all of a sudden have something that is 100% correct? Sooner or later, its going to be contradicted by something else down the line, probably has already been done...

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:37 am

yazi88 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:45 am
https://www.gundam.info/content/dam/gun ... 20(14).jpg

Is this the image about this Thunderbolt thing?

Gundam books and reference guides have a long history of contradicting each other often. Officials is the same way too. Why would a franchise like Gundam, that has had so many inconsistent and overwritten books/publications, all of a sudden have something that is 100% correct? Sooner or later, its going to be contradicted by something else down the line, probably has already been done...
Yes, this image lists Origin and TB as Another UC, while other side stories to be Another Story.
Also, this booklet also specifies the timeline as UC-> RC-> CC.

And why would Gundam Officials be any different?
Until they have another book using that specific title, you can't get any more official than that.

Gundam Officials is the first attempt from Sunrise and Bandai to hire a specific person to unify all of the stories and give us a canonical timeline and details from UC 0001 to 0083(with tidbits of some major events and people until 0087)
Before this book, all the other attempts are from other publishers not hired by Sunrise or Bandai but only obtained the license to do so. (e.g. Rapport deluxe UC series and Entertainment Bible series)
The next attempt would be Gundam Encyclopaedia Ver. 1.5, which tries to give details from UC 0001 to 0153.
You said there are other publications that contradict each other, makes perfect sense since most of them aren't even attempts by the official source.

Me writing a book about and paying for the license will never make it official, but me writing a book about an IP I control and claiming it to be official is always more official than other things I publish that didn't say so.

The view of not having a canon is not wrong, Gundam Officials does include some other views for some of the details(and specs) but the canonical view of contradiction between shows is taken care of by the word of god, which is much more simple than the biblical canon.

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by Deacon Blues » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:06 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:45 am
Because I have actually seen the capture screen.
But anyway, took me some time to find but we have another source that you can see:
https://www.gundam.info/news/publicatio ... 18_12.html
From 宇宙世紀メモリアル, Official sample on the left side of the second row.
TB is listed with Origin as Another UC (The gray bar on the right of the box surrounding the title.)
All other listed series do not have such treatment.
So provide said screen capture.

All of the manga is listed as "Another Story" too so what's your point? Another doesn't mean "alternative". There is no definition for the subtitles that I've seen in the booklet (unless I'm missing something). The booklet also has a MS lineage chart which branches off into suits from series that fall under the "another story" aspect. So that's unofficial? It also states that the RX-78GP04G Gundam Unit 4 appeared in the 0083 OVA, which we known didn't happen. Sure, the booklet was available at the Narrative showing but much like all the other Gundam movie showings, there are errors in it.
You are saying the Officials is not the definitive book?
Please explain the term "Officials"
The Japanese title states very specificly that it is 公式, which is also official.

Gundam Officials is THE official book that collects and consolidate all of the contradictions.
Anything given after it and is contradictory is of course then not official.
Um... let's check out the Gunpla manuals that change mobile suit information. Let's look at the new development history for mobile suits being presented in Mobile Suit Discovery. Let's look at some of the tweaks being made in manga that is coming out, etc. Gundam Officials was released back in 2001. It's a stale and archaic form of gathered information that built upon sources like Entertainment Bibles, Gundam Century, Gundam RPG (oh momma), Comic Bon Bon, etc. These old publications were ripe with errors. Sure, some were corrected but alas not everything was. If you even go back and read some of Mark's posts on here, he notes that things don't jive anymore. The Gundam Encyclopedia 1.5 (or whatever) that was released by the same guy behind Officials is a much more consolidated, updated and concise informational book. Just because it has OFFICIAL in the title doesn't mean much of anything. I believe the Afterword also said something about Sunrise's stance at the time was that they ignored everything aside from film. That, as we now know, is no longer the case with Sunrise's projects (at least for the next 100 years stint).

I mean, you really wanna adhere to it be almighty and official? Better start calling サイコミュ Psychomu because that's what the precious encyclopedia says the English should be or how about ビグロ being Bygro or ビグ・ザム as Byg-Zam. You wanna stand by it? Oooookay!

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:54 am

Deacon Blues wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:06 pm
So provide said screen capture.

All of the manga is listed as "Another Story" too so what's your point? Another doesn't mean "alternative". There is no definition for the subtitles that I've seen in the booklet (unless I'm missing something). The booklet also has a MS lineage chart which branches off into suits from series that fall under the "another story" aspect. So that's unofficial? It also states that the RX-78GP04G Gundam Unit 4 appeared in the 0083 OVA, which we known didn't happen. Sure, the booklet was available at the Narrative showing but much like all the other Gundam movie showings, there are errors in it.
These are two different concepts.
Another Story is different from Another UC.

The term is different and the colour used in the bar is different.

Another Story cannot be 100% interpreted as another timeline, though you really can't find a good explanation of what kind of another story they are, the term isn't as firm as Another UC. They acknowledge those as UC but is of another.

GP04G appeared in 0083 as AGX-04, for the MS lineage chart, this is perfectly fitting with previous settings.

Um... let's check out the Gunpla manuals that change mobile suit information. Let's look at the new development history for mobile suits being presented in Mobile Suit Discovery. Let's look at some of the tweaks being made in manga that is coming out, etc. Gundam Officials was released back in 2001. It's a stale and archaic form of gathered information that built upon sources like Entertainment Bibles, Gundam Century, Gundam RPG (oh momma), Comic Bon Bon, etc. These old publications were ripe with errors. Sure, some were corrected but alas not everything was. If you even go back and read some of Mark's posts on here, he notes that things don't jive anymore. The Gundam Encyclopedia 1.5 (or whatever) that was released by the same guy behind Officials is a much more consolidated, updated and concise informational book. Just because it has OFFICIAL in the title doesn't mean much of anything. I believe the Afterword also said something about Sunrise's stance at the time was that they ignored everything aside from film. That, as we now know, is no longer the case with Sunrise's projects (at least for the next 100 years stint).

I mean, you really wanna adhere to it be almighty and official? Better start calling サイコミュ Psychomu because that's what the precious encyclopedia says the English should be or how about ビグロ being Bygro or ビグ・ザム as Byg-Zam. You wanna stand by it? Oooookay!
Sunrise's projects basically always ignore other shows and settings, they are like documentories by different people with different views to the same events. If you are looking at the overall canon, you use the source that is supposed to be looking at the overall picture.
And I always acknowledge Ver. 1.5 as official and as canon as Officials because they serve the same purpose, and if you can find any contradictions between them, feel free to list them out.

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by yazi88 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:02 am

Umm... I think you guys should make a different thread about this... its really getting off topic now... I didn't help either by continuing the conversation...

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by ShadowCell » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:11 am

mmmmmkay guys, let's take it down a notch.

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:50 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:24 pm
My point being that it isn't really supported by any colony we see in the the UC... we never see anything that looks to be worse off than metropolitan Tokyo, and many that are seemingly more along the lines of suburbs. With the exceptions of Moon Moon and Shangri-La, the colonies we see look like relatively nice places to live. Libot and Green Noa look like suburban developments, Texas and the colony from Developers both had loads of "wilderness" area. Even Side 3's own capital city looks no more overpopulated than a medium-sized city. Shangri-La was a sparsely populated dump. If the colonies really had such massive population density we'd expect something more like Kowloon's walled city or Toronto's St. James Town district, or maybe the Dorts from IBO which seemed to be pure highrise buildings. Even Moore in Side 4 in Thunderbolt looked more like a light and spaceous urban environment, and Thunderbolt was trying to jack the grim up to 12.


Not to mention it totally doesn't work with how the colonies are depicted, with just the one exterior bulkhead between the colony interior and space. This cheat was visibly used in Macross though, with the first Frontier movie showing that Island-1 had three and a half layers with opposite orientations thanks to gravity control.
Well, not even in the slum area we see in shows have that kind of poor conditions.

From what calculated up there, Kowloon walled city is like a paradise.

To match the population in the settings and density depicted, they will have to at least increase the number of the colonies by 100 times in the slums and 1000 in the more lightly populated area.

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Re: How do you envision PLANT?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:43 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:50 am
Well, not even in the slum area we see in shows have that kind of poor conditions.

From what calculated up there, Kowloon walled city is like a paradise.

To match the population in the settings and density depicted, they will have to at least increase the number of the colonies by 100 times in the slums and 1000 in the more lightly populated area.
Yeah, I think the safest assumption would be that there used to be - or still are, maybe both - more colonies in the Earth sphere than previously indicated to account for the huge population and yet seemingly comfortable standard of living most of the colonists seen in the series seem to enjoy. Either way, they're all gone by the time the Reguild Century rolls around, except for Cyrano 5 and the Venus Globe.

The closest we've come to seeing a genuinely awful colony to live in is either Moon Moon (due to the total societal breakdown) or the Dorts in IBO where the (almost literal) wage slaves are segregated into colonies with an interior that consists of little else besides factories and highrise low income housing so shabby that the impoverished child soldiers of Tekkadan say it compares unfavorably to the slum districts of Chryse.
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