Beam Saber Deflections?

The future is now. This is the place for mecha and science.
User avatar
Hi_Nu_Gundam
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Beam Saber Deflections?

Something I've wondered for a long time, can a Beam Saber absorb/deflect shots from beam weapons like Star Wars Lightsabers? I'd always assumed they could, considering that a Beam shield is basically a flat beam saber. Has it ever been done in any Gundam works?
Things never to say/ask on MAHQ:

Did Char and Amuro Really die?
I think Wing is better than UC.
Really, are Char and Amuro Dead?
Gundam Seed Destiny was a great show, better than Turn A!
Where can I find Gundam hentai?
Seriously people, did Char and Amuro die or not!?
User avatar
ShadowCell
Moderator
Posts: 4716
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Kira does it a few times in Gundam SEED.
User avatar
Arsarcana
Posts: 1478
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 am

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Loran used his sabers as impromptu beam shields as well by spinning the things really quickly. It's not quite deflection Star Wars-style but it probably counts.
User avatar
mcred23
Posts: 4200
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:12 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Contact:

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

We also see the same thing done in F91 by Seabook and Birgit when they fight the Bugs, and I'm pretty sure it's done at some point in Victory as well.
I must betray Stalindog!!!

RPG TRINARY: Mash
Die Anti-brutale Kraft: mcred23 (Call me 'red', not 'mcred')
User avatar
SonicSP
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 am
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.
User avatar
DoubleZero
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:51 am
Location: Wild Duck Burger

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

SonicSP wrote:While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.
Graham did it twice in the special editions, first was to block Trans-Am 00, and the second was from the attacks of the other Gundams.

IIRC Setsuna did it as well in the episode where the Meisters tried to get back into outer space. Episode 10, maybe?
"Rush hour, during the Dark hour..."
User avatar
valkyriepilot
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere...

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

mcred23 wrote:We also see the same thing done in F91 by Seabook and Birgit when they fight the Bugs, and I'm pretty sure it's done at some point in Victory as well.
Seabook (as Kincaide Nau) does it again with the Crossbone's Beam Zanber to block a VSBR shot from Harrison Martin's F91 in the Crossbone manga (albeit with the help of 2 layers of beam shields; goes to show how deadly the F91 VSBR is).
User avatar
SonicSP
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 am
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

DoubleZero wrote:
SonicSP wrote:While I'll have to review it again to be sure, I think Graham blocked one or two of Trans-Am 00 Gundam's shots in Gundam 00 using the Ahead Sakigake's saber. It was in the battle above the sea earlier in season two.
Graham did it twice in the special editions, first was to block Trans-Am 00, and the second was from the attacks of the other Gundams.

IIRC Setsuna did it as well in the episode where the Meisters tried to get back into outer space. Episode 10, maybe?
Episode 9 I believe, the same episode where the Meister fought Arche for the first time.

I think in that scenario, he actually used the GN Sword IIs to block the beams from the Baikal rather than a beam saber. Setsuna rarely used beam sabers with 00 as it is.

Some buster swords in Gundam 00 like the Zwei and 00 Seven Sword's also double as shields in design spec I believe. I was kinda surprised a GN Sword could do it, but then again they do have a GN Field layer on the blade, so maybe its not so surprising afterall.
User avatar
JEFFPIATT
Posts: 810
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:44 pm
Location: Allentown, PA
Contact:

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.
User avatar
J-Lead
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: (still) Standing on the edge of the crater

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

A beam saber is, by definition, an I-field containing high energy Minovsky particles in a set shape (in this case, a blade.) Since I-fields are used to control and compress M-particles in the first place, logically, they can diffuse incoming Mega particles as well (whole gimmick behind the I-field Barrier as well as how beam sabers clash with each other.) In that sense, a beam saber doesn't necessarily deflect incoming beams like in Star Wars, but rather diffuses the mega particles that make them up. I imagine that this doesn't make it a good defense against beam rifle shots, however, as logically there would be considerable back blast from the diffused particles that would still cause damage to the MS (keep in mind, these particles are going super fast and only diffusing around the beam saber, not completely dispersing,) so the best option is still to simply dodge beam weaponry altogether.

In other words, think of the beam saber as a really narrow I-field Barrier that sucks at it's job.
"I'd show Loni the power my parents gave me if you know what I mean."
HalfDemonInuyasha
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:51 am
Location: Albany, NY
Contact:

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

JEFFPIATT wrote:I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.
More the Nu Gundam's Fin Funnel Beam Barrier, only the emitting was more inverted in that, rather than having the emitters forming a shape on the points outside, they simply had 1 single emitter spreading the beam shape out all around.

Though, you do see a more Nu Gundam-like version with the Victory 2's Mega Beam Shield with its central (in the shield itself) + the 3 separate emitters that fire out from each end point, essentially making it as strong as 4+ beam shields.
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet
User avatar
Seraphic
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am
Location: Inside the barrel of Wing Zero's left Buster Rifle.

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Beam sabers shouldn't be able to deflect beam shots well at all due to the fact that the beam bolt is a fluid.

It'd be kinda like trying to block a water balloon with a sword. The water will splash around the blade and spray you all over. While that may reduce the damage by dispersing the concentrated mass, I imagine you'd still take damage from the spread out particles that will still hit you.

And to answer the topic's Star Wars reference, there's no way a beam saber could reflect or absorb a beam shot in the way depicted in the movies. You'd probably need a really big I-field generator to do that instead.
"Red particles are bad, they mutate you into... dead? But green/blue particles are good, apparently, for reasons and for purposes yet to be determined. Isn't science sometimes nicely color-coded?"
-Antares

GW: The Sword . Sera's Art . Gameplay . The Lost Citadel
User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4833
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

And yet, they do in at least one example: Kira in the Freedom does exactly that at least once, deflecting/blocking beam rifle shots with its beam sabers - as has been mentioned.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
User avatar
Red Comet90
Posts: 1008
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: Axis

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Dark Duel wrote:And yet, they do in at least one example: Kira in the Freedom does exactly that at least once, deflecting/blocking beam rifle shots with its beam sabers - as has been mentioned.
Is there any in Universe reason for how this is possible? Obviously the Minovsky Particle argument doesn't hold much in the Cosmic Era since they don't use them.
The proof of our might will forever be etched in your minds.

-- Haman Karn
User avatar
Brave Fencer Kirby
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 pm

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Well, as far as I know, we don't have any explanation for how CE beam weapons (rifles or sabers) work, so it's really impossible to tell.
Fighting evil so you don't have to!
User avatar
Hi_Nu_Gundam
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Thanks for all your replies everyone!
Things never to say/ask on MAHQ:

Did Char and Amuro Really die?
I think Wing is better than UC.
Really, are Char and Amuro Dead?
Gundam Seed Destiny was a great show, better than Turn A!
Where can I find Gundam hentai?
Seriously people, did Char and Amuro die or not!?
User avatar
Arbiter GUNDAM
Posts: 2904
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
Contact:

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

They probably don't want to do it too much anyway, or they might risk the wrath of Lucasfilm. :P
I can fly if I ride the wind! Gori gori!

--Freyja Wion
Zeonista
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: in ur colony, steelin ur gundam

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

To give another UC example, in Ecole du Ciel volume 12, Asuna use two beam sabers with the Le Cygne's hands on full rotation spin to create mini-shields in order to parry multiple shots from an opponent. It's only a partial success, leading to her MS taking serious damage, but she's able to leave the combat under power, which is good enough, ne?
"I am fire. I am death. I am Hashmal."

"Discontent is the first step in the progress for a man or a nation." - Oscar Wilde
Ceiling_Squid
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:55 am

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

JEFFPIATT wrote:I believe that the fact that the beam saber being able to block beam shots is what let SNRI and Bush to desgin the Beam Sheld witch is an thin beam saber that emits out of an tiny shield. the AD Gundams integrate what accounts to an simple GN Field in there physical hand carried Shelds. The GN-X class ms have an modified version of the old defense rod that can do the same thing. With the VSBR it was an gun designed to penetrate beam shelds so the added layers of beam shelds and the saber may have slowed the blast down enough to not cause major damage.
This bit about SNRI and Buch makes sense, yeah.

It's basically the guiding principle behind beam shields. What applies to beam shields likely applies to beam sabers then, at least in UC continuity. As someone mentioned a bit earlier, it's likely that the beam might spill around the saber, if only becuase a beam saber doesnt have the same coverage as a beam shield.

The question I have then...does this mean that a VSBR can penetrate a more conventional I-field barrier, like what we see on the Big Zam and other mobile armors? If the I-field is the key to a beam shield's function here, I figure it would operate that way.
Cmdr Harabec
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:56 pm

Re: Beam Saber Deflections?

Ceiling_Squid wrote:The question I have then...does this mean that a VSBR can penetrate a more conventional I-field barrier, like what we see on the Big Zam and other mobile armors? If the I-field is the key to a beam shield's function here, I figure it would operate that way.
I can't recall any scene showing an I-Field stopping a VSBR in any media off the top of my head, but it's pretty well implied it would. We see that beam shields aren't limited to being broken by VSBRs in F91 - battleship fire tears through the beam shields with repeated hits. I-Fields have been known to stop such fire (and even more powerful weapons, as is the case with the X-3 mostly stropping the Divinidad's enormous built in head cannon) with little issues. The containment I-Field of beam shields and beam sabres etc are much weaker than the full power I-Field barrier systems, and thus more easily broken. Such is the trade off for requiring less power to utilize.

There is one instance I can recall of an I-Field barrier ever being "broken," and that's in Crossbone Steel Seven. The Patchwork X-1 puts up its I-Field directly in front of the Cornix's headmounted VSBR/beam cannon/whatever (shield piercing weapon, though, as seen in the first chapter when it pierces a Flint's beam shield) and the beam is sort of deflected, but it's so close it still hits part of the arm and melts it away. It's not really breaking it, but more it seems that the hand was so close to the barrier the beam could only be deflected so much. This is a little at odds with how we've seen the X-3's I-fields emit before, but perhaps it could have been forming and expanding or something. Who knows? At any rate, that's the only example I can think of.
Post Reply