Mecha Roleplaying

[PhantomBread]

I'm an avid tabletop gamer, abet a new one, though I guess I've diversified fairly well in a short time. I've played modern, and fantasy, and steampunk, and all the other fun settings and eras that they toss out in the games. And while I've heard of some systems, I've never really heard that much ABOUT them.

So, what systems do people like for roleplaying mecha, preferably 'real' style, such as Gundam or Votoms?

[Recon 5]

Most Western systems are more 'real' than Gundam or Votoms. Try Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear or the Battletech gamebooks (not the tabletop game) for an idea.

[Pheznik]

Well seeing how he IS a tabletop gamer i would say check out battltech just to see how "real" mechs fair in combat and then if you want the RPG get mechwarrior.

[Jak Stoller]

: hears all this Battletech nonsense and wants to puke. :

Battletech is a wonderful idea and a shitty system, as someone who's played, run, and designed a butt ton of mecha settings, I'd say avoid it like the friggin plague. Its slow, its locked down, and its unadaptable.

When looking for a mecha rpg system, you need to look at three main aspects- adaptability, customization, and cinematics vs tactics. The rules need to be adaptable so that, without spending any more money, you can try a new and different setting when ever you want. The mecha designs themselves need to be customizable so that way you can control the story, not the other way around. And the rules for the system its self need to be both cinematic enough for your anime, and tactical enough for your western style wargameing curmudgeons.

Battletech is none of these. You'll either spend all your time trying to make its rules work for other settings and getting poor results, or you'll be stuck playing the same slow game mechanics over and over and over.

My personal advice falls in two categories. If your mostly doing more of a war game with a little bit of role playing thrown in for flavor, check out Mecha! . Its been out of print for a while, but its still one of the best generic wargaming manuals out there, if ya want I can even send you the semi-official rules compiled for the Gundam universe.

If you like to role play, if you want your favorite anime to come to life (be it Gundam, Tenchi Muyo, or even DBZ) I suggest picking up Mekton Zeta and Mekton Zeta Plus from R. Talsorian. With those two books, you can recreate anything you want. Anything. Mekton has decent character creation rules, allowing for diversity amongst your PCs, while still being streamlined and efficient (if you want the best character creation rules you can get then you'd need the custom Mekton-Fuzion hybrid rules in use by a few of us on the MZML). Mekton also has the _most_ comprehensive mecha construction system ever designed. You can build anything from a human sized hand gun, to a tank, to a Heavy Gear, to Mazinger Z, to an Eva. Anything. Some folks get bogged down in it (because there is so many options to choose from), but if you set out with a plan in mind, you can easily whip together any mecha in just a couple minutes. The only thing Mekton Zeta Plus lacks is heat generation rules, but you can easily recreate that aspect using energy pools (without having to make up any rules or anything). Mekton Zeta really is the cats meow, its a shame more folks didn't get into it. Its a bazillion times better than D20, based on the fact that you can make up your own stuff without having to alter the system at all. Its the ultimate rpg system in that it can recreate anything without having to be mediocre in doing so (sorry GURPS, jack of all trades, master of none).

Fuzion is pretty good too.

Heavy Gear is... well it started off as a bastard child from R.Tal. so its got good roots, its just not that fluid of a system.

Tales From The Floating Vagabond isn't to terrible either, once you get the point of the system.

--Jak

[Ascension]

You can build anything from a human sized hand gun, to a tank, to a Heavy Gear, to Mazinger Z, to an Eva. Anything.

I want to see stats for Ideon.

Seriously, though, sounds like a great system... I might check it out.

[Pheznik]

Mekton for got about that


and if u want role play

check out Big Eyes Small Mouth - Cool star ships and robots (close to the name of it)

[Jak Stoller]

BESM, as the name implies, looks great, but doesn't say much. It's wonderful if you want munchkin anime, but its not the system you want if your going for anything deep. Also its mecha/ ship creation is just horrible, its like when you were a little bitty child and would pretend your shoe was a spaceship that your GI Joe could ride in... It lacks the versatility to provide any real structure, and its integration into the system is clunky. When your doing mecha anime you don't want your mecha to seem like paper cut outs, you want them to seem like each one is crafted purely to be in that universe.

Mektons character creation isn't the greatest, I've already said that (but I also mentioned that a lot of folks use Mek-Fuzion), but to many RPG players now adays are roll playing, not role playing. The differences in this concept of gaming changes it from a bunch of nerds rolling dice in their moms basement, to a series of imaginative actors creating their own impromptu and in depth story.

--Jak

[Pheznik]

rifts robotech?


nothing like spending an hour for 3 rounds of combat

[Jak Stoller]

On the plus side for rifts, you can find designs for almost everything if ya look hard enough.

--Jak

[UrbanSniper]

I've actually been running a MSG RPG for the better part of the year now using modified d20 Modern/Future rules using the d20 Mecha suppliment. It's been rather successful, though I'm currently looking at converting to the Star Wars Saga edition rules should I decide to run another campaign anytime soon. I won't say that modern is the best system to use for this, but it's proven to work well enough.

EDIT: I should also note that my game is set in a non-canon UC setting, so super-powered Wing/SEED suits haven't even been considered or statted.

[Dygenguard]

BESM, as the name implies, looks great, but doesn't say much. It's wonderful if you want munchkin anime, but its not the system you want if your going for anything deep. Also its mecha/ ship creation is just horrible, its like when you were a little bitty child and would pretend your shoe was a spaceship that your GI Joe could ride in... It lacks the versatility to provide any real structure, and its integration into the system is clunky. When your doing mecha anime you don't want your mecha to seem like paper cut outs, you want them to seem like each one is crafted purely to be in that universe.

Mektons character creation isn't the greatest, I've already said that (but I also mentioned that a lot of folks use Mek-Fuzion), but to many RPG players now adays are roll playing, not role playing. The differences in this concept of gaming changes it from a bunch of nerds rolling dice in their moms basement, to a series of imaginative actors creating their own impromptu and in depth story.

--Jak

I'm actually GM'ing a BESM campaign and I'd have to agree with what Jak said here. I use a heavily modified version of BESM that mixes elements from first and third edition, plus some "house rules" and concepts mixed in between me and another GM from a seperate game. I'd like to remind everyone that BESM actually ENCOURAGES players to modify the system to meet their needs, whether it be tweeking a few rules or adding in their own content.

The real snag that Jak pointed out is that BESM doesn't fit comfortably into mech anime. And by "mech anime" I mean what I'm sure everyone on this board is use to: Gundam, Super Robot Wars, etc. The other GM that I worked with on the system was running a campaign set in Phantasy Star Online, which uses little mechanical influence outside of androids, e-peen enlarging oversized machine guns, and maybe a hover-bike or a Battletech-like mechanical suit. My character in his campaign used a hover-bike that transformed into an armored suit in the Bubblegum Crisis tradition and had a personality that was like a cross between Ratzel Feinshmecker and Kamina (he was only good at cooking, fighting, and giving corny speeches - something the other players loathed me for), but the lack of hot-blood and courage kinda wasted my efforts and I was left disgruntled afterwards.

Well, I wouldn't stand for this and decided to build my own BESM campaign. I set it in a SRW-like setting and put some thought into making mecha a central theme. I borrowed the other GM's BESM rules and system info and set to work. And that's where problems just kept coming out of the woodwork.

First, BESM assumes mechs are apparently on par with your standard automobile. Things that are commonplace on mecha like, oh, ARMOR, and WEAPONS, take many points to "buy" and install. Mech Hit Points are pretty low to start out with, meaning that basically anyone can critcally hit your mech and destroy it. That's ON FOOT, mind you. Yes, a guy with a sword can take on a mech and destroy it. By the time I was done with a "sample" mech sheet, I laughed myself stupid for five minutes straight considering how easy it was to destroy these things. That sheet is my "cannon fodder" reference to this day.

Second, the more formidable mechs - like a Gundam, Alteisen, Arm Slave, etc. - would drain the character of almost all of the points meant for their character. I'm not sure why, but you'd spend your attributes to gain points to build your mech with. Basically, this means that everyone would either be a grunt that can actually fight and function outside their mech or a test pilot that can't even make a grilled cheese sandwich, let alone aim a gun or something - and I'd know, I had a player who did that: he built this amazing mech, but failed every single check due to low character stats. This kind of polarization didn't sit well with me.

Third, there's the kink that not everyone might want a mech. I considered my players and knew that it wasn't going to happen. My dream team was if everyone made a mech and play it SRW style where they deploy as a team and defeat the bad guys, but it didn't happen. I had only two out of four players even ask about it - but it makes sense since one is an even bigger mech nerd than I am and the other had just finished watching Gurren Lagann and was addicted to courage and hot-blood. This is something I could work easily as GM, but the problem with this is that there tends to be too much down-time for the non-pilot-characters. They can't really contribute to a mech battle and often sit around bored.

The bottom line is this: modifying BESM to fit mech anime has been way too huge of a headache to bother. Look into a system that's been built more for it unless you really have the time to bother modifying and balancing BESM like I did. In the end, I don't think I pulled it off since I keep seeing huge holes and exploits in the logic of the system. Frankly, BESM is a very simple system that emphasizes the story over everything else, and the more complicated it gets, the less the storyline becomes significant. It's also lacking in detail, which is great in its own way, but also creates a lot of debate over said details when players try to do something that stretches things a bit too far. I emphasize the plot before anything else, I love "role-playing" and that's what BESM is for, but "roll-players" and "rules-lawyers" will whine to no end in this system.

Also, make sure everyone wants to make a mech and actually use it. Players that roll initiative in mech battles that don't have one aggravate the hell out of me - they usually spend their turns with useless free dialogue.

[Clest]

I won't say much about systems since my only mech rpg experiences with mecha are battletech and forum rpgs. To that, battletech goes more for a table top game and still I would cut some rules for it to flow.

Now regarding what Dyegenguard said:

Having mecha in the settings will rewquire that each player has at least some form of ride, so having players on foot would as you said be bad for then.

Best you can do is try to make mecha attractive and simple to then, easer in SRW like setting. In my past rp I had a player who rated robots looking like robots, so she piloted something similar to a Valsione customized like Final Fantasy's Shiva... I hated her design, but it worked within my settings technology.

Or... you can assign then other vehicles, like a support hover base with some weapons and tools for repair, think of Gundam 08th MS team here. Or if you got a carrier/battleship, let players be crew members dealing with the ships anti-MS weapons and maneaver, but make sure you add enough a treat to the battleship.

In my current forum rp, a friend chose to make both a pilot character and a ship captain, of course that board rps doesn't exactly rely on rules and all, but my best tabletop seasons didn't use any particular system either XD Just role play with dice rolls here and there for settling arguments.

Also, you can always go Xenogears/Front Mission and have a lot of nom-mecha action in tight places or inside ships so players who don't like mecha and just tolerate then in mecha battles can kick some ass with guns, martial arts etc...

[Dygenguard]

I did my best to open up some options for them. I set aside a rule set for non-humanoid machines, which has been mildly popular. The only drawback is that they use it as an excuse to try and overpower the vehicles by using its disadvantages to justify more points towards improvements.

And don't worry, I've played Xenogears and Front Mission (two of my favorites and fond inspirations for the RPG), I see what you mean. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to try and work both pilots and non-pilots into the action. It's just that they don't seem to believe me when I tell them so - they're confident that it's just going to be them sitting on the sidelines while the pilots blow stuff up and steal the show.

Also, anyone a part of a fairly entertaining message board RP that might be looking for more? I think it might be fun to do on the side while I'm struggling with this stupid game.

[AmuroNT1]

I haven't ever run an actual mecha RPG - lack of interest, TBH. I'm, unfortunately, the only one in the group with much interest in mecha. A while ago, a friend of mine ran a game using BESM dX that worked mecha in pretty well. Plot-wise it was somewhere betweem Outlaw Star and Macross, where the players were "fixers" who lived on a giant spaceship. After a few sessions of on-foot stuff, we eventually got our mecha.

The GM gave us the choice of three designs: traditional giant robot, fighter plane with swappable weapons (inspired by games like Ikaruga and such), and bio-organic dragons (this tied back into the previous game he ran, which was set in a fantasy world trapped in a time pocket; the sci-fi game took place in that same universe hundreds of years later, with the dragons from the fantasy game turning out to be bio-constructs...but I digress). In the end, I was the only one who took the traditional mecha; my brother chose the fighter, and the two girls (the bro's GF and a friend of ours) took dragons. The system basically involved scaling combat up to a larger level, and it worked fairly well. In the end though, I feel a bit unsatisfied because my character was a pretty blatant Zengar rip-off, and it didn't seem like I was playing my character so much as I was borrowing Banpresto's.

I've run quite a few message board RPs, none statted out, but it still gives me a pretty good idea of things. If I had to pitch a setting that would involve mecha but not be overwhelmed by mecha, I'd honestly suggest taking a concept similar to a fusion of Code Geass and Full Metal Panic. If you beef up the characters' power levels a bit, it keeps them from being left out when they don't have their robots.

As for the problem BESM presents, where mecha are either laughably weak or insanely expensive, why not make baseline mecha and have several "equipment packages" that the players can purchase at reduced cost (exactly how reduced depends on how common and easy-to-obtain the mecha will be)? I imagine something akin to FMP would be a good idea here, sorting out packages based off of combat role and allowing for minor customization. Of course, in the end it's entirely up to the GM what he wants to do with the game.

[Dygenguard]

That sounds like a pretty cool campaign, frankly. Mine began as a generic sci-fi setting with allusions to SRW, but has since grown into a weird space opera with elements of things like Xenogears and Star Ocean mixed in. Somehow, a magic/casting system was mixed in and things got weird, but awesome, from then on.

The problem now isn't so much balance issues, but moreso just hoping I don't lose players so that they can get to the more diverse content. It really was only one session with two battles with the mechs that set them a little put-off, but I like some of the ideas in this thread. I might toy with "mech packages" at some point, though I've already had to employ a split in the system to keep things like massive multi-firing plasma shots out of the hands of players, whom could kill an average human being ten times over. These things really were designed for mech combat where they had the armor class to withstand it and using it on an average-stat NPC is insane.

But I digress, perhaps more options might appeal to them.

[AmuroNT1]

Yeah, I bought the BESM d20 mecha supplement a while ago and showed it to my brother, who GMs. He commented that the system was designed for mecha-heavy campaigns, the sort you'd get if you were running a game based on a show like Gundam or something like SRW, but even then it was pretty flawed and unbalanced.

If you want a way of combining mecha with standard anime powers tho, why not take a page from Megazone and use transforming motorbikes or the like? They're relatively small, can be taken to ordinary places (since they can turn into motorcycles), and it's a lot more reasonable for one of those to be defeatable by superpowers than a mobile suit or arm slave.

[Clest]

Yeah, a huge factor to balance pilots and non-pilots is size of mecha, Zillion for once is a cool setting at that, they got transforming tricycles (which are awesome) or use sizes like the guys from FMP, Code Geass, VOTOMS and Front Mission (about 4 or 5 meters tall).

Xenogears however is not much to my liking however: I don't like the idea of characters completely obliterating a mech with just their fists or whips and rods.

I think that, even if a non pilot can beat a mech, it must be hard, otherwise you would end up with mechs being useless if they lose to infantry in one on one fights

Still I prefer the idea of balancing roles but still setting every player to fight with and without mech, they may chose between specializing more on one aspect or be just decent in both aspects. So anyone must (and I actually point that it is not an option) have a vehicle or stay oin one for said battles, but that also, it is no use having no way to fight on foot.

Another thing I dislike in many systems is spending character points to have a vehicle (or even equipment). I like to separa (regardless of system) points for character development and a currency value for the player to buy/build equipment.

So to have a mech you just need skills to pilot it and you can use a separate fixed amount of points, equal to everyone, to create a vehicle.

Lastly: if ppl wants other vehicles to match mechs, thats is fine, mechs won't exactly be better than a tank or fighter jet, just have a different battle role (think Front Mission again). But if they want to overpower mechs really, make their disadvantages count heavily

AmuroNT1: I like the feel of that setting, I would probably go with the Einhader type ships myself (never played Ikaruga, but your description reminded me of Einhander) and go all Mwu La Flaga against mechs XD

Dygenguard: if you got magic, use magic in technology and let players have vehicles with magic based weapons and systems, In my settings all technology is based in Ether (in a different way than Xenogears though) and you get energy weapons based on that and even some weapons that require the pilot to be a mage... work like Newtype weapons in Gundam or even better, like Psychodriver weapons in SRW

[Dygenguard]

Way ahead of 'ya there, Clest. The power system of the mecha of the universe converted from a solar-power-based system into one supplied by magic sources. This has served to make the mecha operate for longer periods of time as well as remove the danger of core explosions and whatnot. However, it opened up a whole new slew of problems that my players will have to see for themselves, such as losing power in element nullifying fields.

Oh, and I fixed the system up some to make sure players on foot can't as easily beat a mecha anymore. The way the core BESM system worked, you just attacked a single target and it was treated as a general attack pattern, hitting different areas and doing the same relative damage to the opponent. I changed it up by adding multiple target areas, weak spots, armor that is resistant to certain damage types or elemental damage, etc. Basically, I had to think outside the box a lot and treat it ALMOST like a boss from a console RPG or something. I don't think my players will mind -- I keep telling them that the way I do things, it's "Strats before stats" ("strats" = strategies). I have one player that's really annoying and keeps trying to look at my rolls for the NPCs, saying "Part of my strategy is to try and figure out their stat numbers". Well, hell of a lot of good it does you when you figure out he has XXX Hit Points and you're still doing half damage.

I have a feeling one of them might try to call me out and make it seem like I'm ripping off Metal Gear Solid or something.

[Dustin]

Hah, the day I get to really RP mechs..Well, I did this one goofy little RP involving Zoids and Mobile Suits because my friend was into Zoids and I knew moderate amounts about them. So we made this setting about Mechanics and Zodians and I completely screwed with the Zoidian back story and how zoids were made cause I couldn't remember a thing about it.

Something like Zoids required the actual brain of the animal, the first ones did and future Zoids were based on those first brains to correctly manipulate their behavior. Mechanics were the people who found the whole practice to be wrong and horrible, so they relied completely on technology.

Shame we never did much..mech stuff though, it's fun for as goofy as it is.. As for Systems..it's usually just IM RP's for me, and nobody cares to try anything I make. I use letter grades though..in most of my systems now, with + and -. My friend uses them sometimes.

It's surprisingly flexible because you know that a F+ is stronger than a F, but you know that a D- would kick the tar out of a F+.

I pop out the occasional mobile suit idea..lost in my harddrive though.