Hello, everyone.
First of all, nice to meet everyone!! I'm a huge mecha fan from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. It's lonely being a mecha fan in the soccer and samba country so I hope I can make some good mecha friends here (lulz).
Anyways, I'm also a big SRW fan (finished OG1, 2, OGS, AP, MXP, J and @ so far). I'm currently at the end of @Gaiden and preparing for @2 and I'm having some trouble with understandig how to use the squad system.
So, I would like to have your thoughts on this system, specially on how to make squads. I don't know if I should group up stong dudes like Getter, Mazinkaiser all in one or if a strong dude and lots of grunt units is optimal or even if it's good or bad to combine reals and supers. (Sorry for being a total noob on this)
Nice to meet y'all one more time and thanks in advance.
Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Real men ride each other!!!
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Shinji103
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Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
My basic rules for squads is:
a. Always put your strongest attackers as squad leader for damage squads, and main supporters as leaders of support squads. (duh ^^b) Though because of the sheer number of units you can field due to the squad system, I don't actually usually make full squads of supporters only since you'll have plenty supporters by the time you fill out your deployable squad number anyway. The only full supporter squad I ever make is for the Fire Bomber members in 3rd Alpha. (though they can be used as sorta-attackers as well)
b. For 2nd and 3rd Alpha, team up machines that have combination attacks since you can't use combination attacks across seperate squads, even if this means filling the squad with attackers. (you should have plenty of attackers to go around and fill your deployable squad number anyway) Since combination attacks are usually among your strongest attacks, this keeps your strongest attacks available. You may have to use Cost Down items to fit some groups like Mazinger Z, Great Mazionger, and Getter Dragon in the same squad for the combination attack Final Dynamic Special. For other games that don't force you to put mechs in the same squad to use their combination attacks (like Z and the OG series), just refer to a.
c. Always try to keep super robot squads entirely super robot. For reasons, see d.
d. Support machines that have the Heal and Resupply functions on them automatically use that function at the beginning of each player phase to heal 10% HP or EN respectively (resupply only auto-fills EN and not ammo), so try and give every super squad auto-healing and resupply, and every real squad auto-resupply. (by keeping supers in super squads only, you consolidate your auto-healing to your super squads which need the healing more than reals, hence c. )
e. Try to back up flying squad leaders with flying squadmates and ground leaders with ground squadmates. That way you don't have a mess of terrain types in one squad, though this much should be common sense. Apply Minovsky Craft, Minovsky Drive, and Anti-Dust Unit items where needed.
f. Kepp the overall squad movement range at 6. (the overall movement range is generally the average of the movement ranges of the squad's members rounded down, i.e. a squad of movement range 6 and 5 will have an overall of 5) Use Boosters and Mega Boosters as necessary.
g. Try to put an "Accelerator" (a pilot with the Accelerate seishin) in each squad, thereby allowing faster movement when you need it. (a big help in stages where you have a turn limit for either the mission obective or just the skill point) Put an Accelerator squadmate in a squad even if the leader has accelerate him/herself, thereby saving the squad leader SP.
I actually don't use the squad system much in the OG series except for 2nd OG, where you launch your mechs in twin squads that can be split up so there's no harm. Other than that, I only use twin squads when I need to deliver a hard finishing blow to knock a retreating HP down to zero, or when finishing off a boss. (for EXP and PP for the squad member)
a. Always put your strongest attackers as squad leader for damage squads, and main supporters as leaders of support squads. (duh ^^b) Though because of the sheer number of units you can field due to the squad system, I don't actually usually make full squads of supporters only since you'll have plenty supporters by the time you fill out your deployable squad number anyway. The only full supporter squad I ever make is for the Fire Bomber members in 3rd Alpha. (though they can be used as sorta-attackers as well)
b. For 2nd and 3rd Alpha, team up machines that have combination attacks since you can't use combination attacks across seperate squads, even if this means filling the squad with attackers. (you should have plenty of attackers to go around and fill your deployable squad number anyway) Since combination attacks are usually among your strongest attacks, this keeps your strongest attacks available. You may have to use Cost Down items to fit some groups like Mazinger Z, Great Mazionger, and Getter Dragon in the same squad for the combination attack Final Dynamic Special. For other games that don't force you to put mechs in the same squad to use their combination attacks (like Z and the OG series), just refer to a.
c. Always try to keep super robot squads entirely super robot. For reasons, see d.
d. Support machines that have the Heal and Resupply functions on them automatically use that function at the beginning of each player phase to heal 10% HP or EN respectively (resupply only auto-fills EN and not ammo), so try and give every super squad auto-healing and resupply, and every real squad auto-resupply. (by keeping supers in super squads only, you consolidate your auto-healing to your super squads which need the healing more than reals, hence c. )
e. Try to back up flying squad leaders with flying squadmates and ground leaders with ground squadmates. That way you don't have a mess of terrain types in one squad, though this much should be common sense. Apply Minovsky Craft, Minovsky Drive, and Anti-Dust Unit items where needed.
f. Kepp the overall squad movement range at 6. (the overall movement range is generally the average of the movement ranges of the squad's members rounded down, i.e. a squad of movement range 6 and 5 will have an overall of 5) Use Boosters and Mega Boosters as necessary.
g. Try to put an "Accelerator" (a pilot with the Accelerate seishin) in each squad, thereby allowing faster movement when you need it. (a big help in stages where you have a turn limit for either the mission obective or just the skill point) Put an Accelerator squadmate in a squad even if the leader has accelerate him/herself, thereby saving the squad leader SP.
I actually don't use the squad system much in the OG series except for 2nd OG, where you launch your mechs in twin squads that can be split up so there's no harm. Other than that, I only use twin squads when I need to deliver a hard finishing blow to knock a retreating HP down to zero, or when finishing off a boss. (for EXP and PP for the squad member)
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Here are some other tips and corrections:
1) Every unit has a cost and this is what you need to watch out for. More powerful units have a larger cost. You can get a part called "Cost Down" but they are very rare and I believe you can only get two or three. So a squad of Mazinkaiser, Shin Getter and so on is a waste.
2) You don't have to put all your combination attack units in the same squad because as with every other Super Robot Wars game they can still stand near each other and it works (this is how Gaiking and Daikumaryu are able to have a combination attack!) For some you want to like Jeeg and Big Shooter because most of Jeeg's attacks come from Big Shooter also GaioGaiGar and Goldymarg but for something like Final Dynamic Special it's just plain silly.
3) Don't worry a lot about about all super robot squads or all real squads, and throw in some reals to max out the cost. The only real danger for squad units in the back is map attacks an all attacks.
4) Alpha 2 is heavily ground based so it's a good idea to make a larger number of flying squads. Alpha 3 this ends up mattering a lot less with the large amount of squads.
5) The Brains from Brain Powered have barriers have other units also have barriers which effect the entire squad, like the I-Field barrier. Unless you want to use the Brains as the squad leaders throw them in the back of the squads and watch out for other barriers as well so you don't overlap. The same goes for healing and resupply, resupply being way more useful, make sure they don't overlap.
6) Watch out for the movement of some units, something like Boss Borot only has a movement of 4 and there's little point to waste Boosters and Mega Boosters just to get him up to 6 or 7.
1) Every unit has a cost and this is what you need to watch out for. More powerful units have a larger cost. You can get a part called "Cost Down" but they are very rare and I believe you can only get two or three. So a squad of Mazinkaiser, Shin Getter and so on is a waste.
2) You don't have to put all your combination attack units in the same squad because as with every other Super Robot Wars game they can still stand near each other and it works (this is how Gaiking and Daikumaryu are able to have a combination attack!) For some you want to like Jeeg and Big Shooter because most of Jeeg's attacks come from Big Shooter also GaioGaiGar and Goldymarg but for something like Final Dynamic Special it's just plain silly.
3) Don't worry a lot about about all super robot squads or all real squads, and throw in some reals to max out the cost. The only real danger for squad units in the back is map attacks an all attacks.
4) Alpha 2 is heavily ground based so it's a good idea to make a larger number of flying squads. Alpha 3 this ends up mattering a lot less with the large amount of squads.
5) The Brains from Brain Powered have barriers have other units also have barriers which effect the entire squad, like the I-Field barrier. Unless you want to use the Brains as the squad leaders throw them in the back of the squads and watch out for other barriers as well so you don't overlap. The same goes for healing and resupply, resupply being way more useful, make sure they don't overlap.
6) Watch out for the movement of some units, something like Boss Borot only has a movement of 4 and there's little point to waste Boosters and Mega Boosters just to get him up to 6 or 7.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Hey guys. Thx for the help!! Not trying to sound too greedy or dumb but can u also give me some practical examples of squads? you can name the characters, i know all the series. thanks again and nice to meetcha! (Sry bout any mistakes. i‘m writing on my cel now and the interface sucks)
Real men ride each other!!!
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Shinji103
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Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Now this isn't true. I've tried it, so unless both my copy of 2nd Alpha and 3rd Alpha were glitched in the same exact way for every combination attack in those two games, you have to put combination attack mechs in the same squad to use the attack. (but only in the Alphas; every other squad system game I've played doesn't need for them to be in the same squad)Mark064 wrote:1) Every unit has a cost and this is what you need to watch out for. More powerful units have a larger cost. You can get a part called "Cost Down" but they are very rare and I believe you can only get two or three. So a squad of Mazinkaiser, Shin Getter and so on is a waste.
2) You don't have to put all your combination attack units in the same squad because as with every other Super Robot Wars game they can still stand near each other and it works (this is how Gaiking and Daikumaryu are able to have a combination attack!) For some you want to like Jeeg and Big Shooter because most of Jeeg's attacks come from Big Shooter also GaioGaiGar and Goldymarg but for something like Final Dynamic Special it's just plain silly.
Of course you can just align a ship with a mech for that particular combination attack because ships can't go in squads.
Which happens all the time in the later half of 3rd Alpha. (there are even some maps where damage to whole squads is unavoidable) Reals are fine in any squad because they can dodge, but it's a good idea to have super squad members in squads that either help protect them from ALL and MAP attacks in some way or heal them.3) Don't worry a lot about about all super robot squads or all real squads, and throw in some reals to max out the cost. The only real danger for squad units in the back is map attacks an all attacks.
2nd Alpha has a handful of nasty water missions too, so flying squads are definitely good whenever you can.4) Alpha 2 is heavily ground based so it's a good idea to make a larger number of flying squads. Alpha 3 this ends up mattering a lot less with the large amount of squads.
Now this isn't true either. He's easily been worth it for me; having three support pilots in a squad for the slot of one mech sweetens the deal.6) Watch out for the movement of some units, something like Boss Borot only has a movement of 4 and there's little point to waste Boosters and Mega Boosters just to get him up to 6 or 7.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Nope here's a nice Alpha 3 video which demonstrates that fact. Alpha 2 I'm unable to find a video on but really the only Alpha 2 attack that doesn't make sense to load a squad with is Chakra Extension by the Brains (if you want to use the Brains as your mains) and Final Dynamic Special.Shinji103 wrote:Now this isn't true. I've tried it, so unless both my copy of 2nd Alpha and 3rd Alpha were glitched in the same exact way for every combination attack in those two games, you have to put combination attack mechs in the same squad to use the attack. (but only in the Alphas; every other squad system game I've played doesn't need for them to be in the same squad)
Of course you can just align a ship with a mech for that particular combination attack because ships can't go in squads.
There are no maps out there where damage to whole squads is unavoidable, difficult maybe but unavoidable not at all. The problem with the lower class super units is the same problem with lower class real robots, they can't really dodge or defend. So you're going to have to upgrade them or give them parts to make them have a better chance. The problem is of course most units in the game can't protect them all. And those with barriers I already mentioned elsewhere.Which happens all the time in the later half of 3rd Alpha. (there are even some maps where damage to whole squads is unavoidable) Reals are fine in any squad because they can dodge, but it's a good idea to have super squad members in squads that either help protect them from ALL and MAP attacks in some way or heal them.
The problem from what I recall is that Boss is the only one who actually gets most Senshin at a decent level and then again they are super robot main level senshins and not ones that help out, only not self is Friendship. Nuke and Mucha have two each for almost the entire game until the end which you may or may not get, not sure what the level they learned it was but it's past the point you should be by the end. Nuke gets cheer and trust, Mucha well he has scan...Now this isn't true either. He's easily been worth it for me; having three support pilots in a squad for the slot of one mech sweetens the deal.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Little question: I just noticed there's a help topic (I swear I looked, but I was looking for a help section, not thread, sorry), so should I try and delete this and move it or is it ok? I'm sorry if I'm infringin the forum's rules
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Shinji103
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Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Well I got on 2nd and 3rd Alphas myself earlier today just to confirm (used some partial saves I've been sitting on), and lo and behold I couldn't use any of my combination attacks outside of squads. But I guess that would figure that I got screwed and somehow managed to get the only copy of 2nd and 3rd that had this bug. With my $hi* luck, it would be totally believable......Mark064 wrote:Nope here's a nice Alpha 3 video which demonstrates that fact. Alpha 2 I'm unable to find a video on but really the only Alpha 2 attack that doesn't make sense to load a squad with is Chakra Extension by the Brains (if you want to use the Brains as your mains) and Final Dynamic Special.
On the bright side, it forces me to be more strategic with my squad creation to use my most powerful attacks.
What happened to 3rd Alpha's maps with Neviim? (however the english spelling goes) The first one is where it fires four or so shots each enemy phase that each has a chance to hit a whole squad for a certain percent of damage. (you have to get a squad to the highlighted squares on the map to get it to stop) The second map, which has several Neviims, fires several shots that do hit several squads each turn. (this time no squares to reach and stop the attack)There are no maps out there where damage to whole squads is unavoidable, difficult maybe but unavoidable not at all. The problem with the lower class super units is the same problem with lower class real robots, they can't really dodge or defend. So you're going to have to upgrade them or give them parts to make them have a better chance. The problem is of course most units in the game can't protect them all. And those with barriers I already mentioned elsewhere.
There's also a map in 2nd Alpha where there's this lava weapon thing that does the same thing.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
I might be wrong, as it's been a while since I've last played the games but I think you need to have them as the Squad Leaders of the other squads. So if you are doing Goldion Hammer you need to have Goldymarg as the leader of one squad and Gaogaigar as the leader of the other squad. Of course if you are doing one with multiple units in the same squad they only one can be the squad leader. So that special with Daimos, Combattler V and Voltes V can have one squad with Daimos as the leader and another squad with Combattler V as the leader and Voltes also in the same squad.Shinji103 wrote:Well I got on 2nd and 3rd Alphas myself earlier today just to confirm (used some partial saves I've been sitting on), and lo and behold I couldn't use any of my combination attacks outside of squads. But I guess that would figure that I got screwed and somehow managed to get the only copy of 2nd and 3rd that had this bug. With my $hi* luck, it would be totally believable......
On the bright side, it forces me to be more strategic with my squad creation to use my most powerful attacks.
Yup you're right I forgot about those maps, but since they rare they're going to screw over most of your squads anyways if they get hit (real or super). Especially since from what I recall they can hit the same squad multiple times in the same turn. In that case you're best off with senshin as the damage is significant and by the time those levels come along you should have a good deal of them by then.What happened to 3rd Alpha's maps with Neviim? (however the english spelling goes) The first one is where it fires four or so shots each enemy phase that each has a chance to hit a whole squad for a certain percent of damage. (you have to get a squad to the highlighted squares on the map to get it to stop) The second map, which has several Neviims, fires several shots that do hit several squads each turn. (this time no squares to reach and stop the attack)
There's also a map in 2nd Alpha where there's this lava weapon thing that does the same thing.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
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Shinji103
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Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Well, yeah, I know and tried that much. ^^bMark064 wrote:I might be wrong, as it's been a while since I've last played the games but I think you need to have them as the Squad Leaders of the other squads. So if you are doing Goldion Hammer you need to have Goldymarg as the leader of one squad and Gaogaigar as the leader of the other squad. Of course if you are doing one with multiple units in the same squad they only one can be the squad leader. So that special with Daimos, Combattler V and Voltes V can have one squad with Daimos as the leader and another squad with Combattler V as the leader and Voltes also in the same squad.
Bottom line is as far as long I have known 2nd and 3rd Alpha, you can't use combination attacks outside of squads. I've neber thought it was a bug before because that's how it's always been for me across two serperate games.
Well my original point is that you want to keep as many supers in one squad with an auto-healer as possible to heal as much damage for as little SP as you can. Reals, being good dodgers, have much less to worry from enemy attacks, thus they don't need auto-healing as much.Yup you're right I forgot about those maps, but since they rare they're going to screw over most of your squads anyways if they get hit (real or super). Especially since from what I recall they can hit the same squad multiple times in the same turn. In that case you're best off with senshin as the damage is significant and by the time those levels come along you should have a good deal of them by then.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Really odd bug. In all my tries of the game the system seems to work just fine. I will say though, that I do find it really weird that a bug would only have an effect on a very small, specific part of the game, and that it really is unlikely. Given that I've never seen anyone else have that complaint, and not to mention a manufacturing bug like that would wreak havoc on more parts of the game than just that specific part, I dunno.
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Shinji103
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Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Well that's how it is. I specifically tried aligning my mechs for combination attacks like I do in any other SRW long ago, since it was "consistent" I never questioned it.Xenosynth wrote:Really odd bug. In all my tries of the game the system seems to work just fine. I will say though, that I do find it really weird that a bug would only have an effect on a very small, specific part of the game, and that it really is unlikely. Given that I've never seen anyone else have that complaint, and not to mention a manufacturing bug like that would wreak havoc on more parts of the game than just that specific part, I dunno.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Wow, I'll go a little off-topic here... Bur damn! I'm now at stage 43 in @Gaiden and good lord...
I'm taking a hard beating here. I defeated the two machinery children, but by then my army was mostly out of sp. I tried to conserve it the most I coudl, but with them having crazy dodge rates (specially for my poor supers) and recovering full hp twice things got really out of hand. I think the biggest problem were their supporters, I couldn't really hit them for some time because of all the nasty supporters and I can't really counter since they like to attack people a billion squares distance (usually the soleil or some other useless crap >_>).
Anyway, when Magus and Uruz appeared I just cried into a corner and threw the soleil in a kamikaze attack to get that reset. Any tips for getting through this nightmare? (It's haunting me...
)
I'm taking a hard beating here. I defeated the two machinery children, but by then my army was mostly out of sp. I tried to conserve it the most I coudl, but with them having crazy dodge rates (specially for my poor supers) and recovering full hp twice things got really out of hand. I think the biggest problem were their supporters, I couldn't really hit them for some time because of all the nasty supporters and I can't really counter since they like to attack people a billion squares distance (usually the soleil or some other useless crap >_>).
Anyway, when Magus and Uruz appeared I just cried into a corner and threw the soleil in a kamikaze attack to get that reset. Any tips for getting through this nightmare? (It's haunting me...
)Real men ride each other!!!
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Take out the supporters first. Don't bother attacking/counterattacking the Machinery Children until the supporters are gone. After that you should easily be able to knock out the Machinery Children in one turn.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
I did try taking out the supporters first. problem was the MC supported them about 4 times a turn. maybe my biggezt mistake was dividing my team. Also that recovery is ridicullus... I hope @2 doesn‘t have this bosses using guts c***.
Real men ride each other!!!
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Yeah just focus on one at a time, just get your weaker units or even your ships if they have the correct senshins to be the first four that attack. Obviously use something like your supers afterwards to deal out the high damage. You should be able to take out around 2 supporters a turn.
Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 really don't have any difficult bosses. Super Robot Wars games started to get a lot easier starting in Alpha so by the time of Alpha 2 it's no longer much of a challenge.
Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 really don't have any difficult bosses. Super Robot Wars games started to get a lot easier starting in Alpha so by the time of Alpha 2 it's no longer much of a challenge.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Gotcha. Will try that strategy.
On a side note, I'd like to say that I think it's hard to actually make a difficult SRW. Impact for example resorts to the same cheap tricks by giving enemies an extremely amount of hp. That doesn't make it difficult, it makes things boring. This recovery c*** is the same, it's cheap, not hard. APortable was much harder and much more enjoyable, imo.
That said, I have to repeat that based on how SRW works as a whole, I do believe it's hard to make an actually difficult entry.
On a side note, I'd like to say that I think it's hard to actually make a difficult SRW. Impact for example resorts to the same cheap tricks by giving enemies an extremely amount of hp. That doesn't make it difficult, it makes things boring. This recovery c*** is the same, it's cheap, not hard. APortable was much harder and much more enjoyable, imo.
That said, I have to repeat that based on how SRW works as a whole, I do believe it's hard to make an actually difficult entry.
Real men ride each other!!!
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
I have to disagree one of the things that makes Super Robot Wars games easier now is PP, the ability to customize your pilots lets them all have great abilities. Especially something like Alpha 2 which has SP Regen as an ability you can give to everyone. Then others like E-Save, Ignore Size Modifier, Morale Break just add on to the killing. They are really just items again that you can select.
The other big ones are the items you get now. Starting with Alpha Gaiden you start to get big energy refill items or energy regen items. Other than that as the game went on you started to get tons of Chogokin New Z and Bio Sensors and what not. So by the end you are so ridiculously stacked on good items only bad luck will take down a good portion of your pilots.
Aside from this I have to go with less money, and more difficult enemies as well. Really the vast majority of the enemies get far too easy and same goes with the bosses. Even with bosses that refill their HP completely I found a lot of the times all it did was make me play for one turn longer. If you can easily fly through a Super Robot Wars game with losing almost no units (back squad members not counting) it's too easy.
The other big ones are the items you get now. Starting with Alpha Gaiden you start to get big energy refill items or energy regen items. Other than that as the game went on you started to get tons of Chogokin New Z and Bio Sensors and what not. So by the end you are so ridiculously stacked on good items only bad luck will take down a good portion of your pilots.
Aside from this I have to go with less money, and more difficult enemies as well. Really the vast majority of the enemies get far too easy and same goes with the bosses. Even with bosses that refill their HP completely I found a lot of the times all it did was make me play for one turn longer. If you can easily fly through a Super Robot Wars game with losing almost no units (back squad members not counting) it's too easy.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Got through the stage!! Doing it one enemy at a time really helped! Hope the next ones are not so stupid. Thank you very muchm Mark064.
EDIT: Hey, quick question, do you know if @2 has dynamic kills? I just love those.
EDIT: Hey, quick question, do you know if @2 has dynamic kills? I just love those.
Real men ride each other!!!
Re: Little help with SRW Alpha 2's squad system
Yup Dynamic kills are in Alpha 2 for various attacks. I think all non-3D SRW games include them now and have for the last while.
Roketto Panchii (ロケットパンチ) My robot anime blog. Mostly review-ish about old robot shows, for now.