The Ages of Mecha Anime

[Vent Noir]

Rereading "The History of Mecha Anime" from an old issue of Animerica (from 2000 or so), and interested in seeing what people think are the ages of mecha anime. The ones they give are...

- The Beginning (Astro Boy and Gigantor)
- The Explosion (Mazinger Z to Mobile Suit Gundam): The Super Robot era
- The Transition (Mobile Suit Gundam to Superdimensional Fortress Macross): The beginning of the Real Robot subgenre
- The New Wave (Macross to Zeta Gundam): Real Robots dominate
- The Diffusion (Zeta Gundam and the OVA boom to the late 80s): The genre diversify, but the TV mecha anime bubble bursts at the end of the 80s
- The Retro Craze (Gundam 0080 to Evangelion): The early 90s are dominated by sequels and remakes.
- [No name given] (Evangelion to time of publication): Diversification again, as creators try radical new ideas

So there we have it... I'd say by now we're definitely past the Eva era, but I'm hard pressed to really name a landmark mecha show since then. Seed was popular and I liked it, but I'm sure I'd get flamed if I suggested it as a landmark series. Code Geass and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann are possible, but I feel it's too early to say for sure. A friend of mine has made the observation that there's been a shift away from "mecha shows" per se towards "shows with mecha in them", where the mecha are a side element rather than being the focus of the show.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Indicible]

A friend of mine has made the observation that there's been a shift away from "mecha shows" per se towards "shows with mecha in them", where the mecha are a side element rather than being the focus of the show.

I would tend to agree, with Full Metal Panic being a good example, if not the "common ancestor" of the genre.

Just look at the last Gundam show: it not only presents the pilotss side of war, but also the civilian (through Saji and Louise).

[Recon 5]

The Gundam formula is pretty much a relic of the Transition Era, and I don't think the focus will shift that much away from mecha in any future installment of the franchise. I mean, it has its roots in a model marketing machine, and it will take a long time for Gunpla potential to become secondary to entertainment value in a Gundam series.

Still, with what I've seen of the origins of MSG, Gunpla should logically have developed as a line of action figures like today's MSiA. I wonder where the complex stuff came from.

[MrMarch]

Interesting article. I agree that the next great landmark mecha show has yet to appear, though some would say Gurren Lagaan is that show. Just to note, the proper translation for Macross is "Super Dimension Fortress Macross." (though I assume it was the magazine that erroneously used Dimensional, as they are still prone to doing to this day, sadly).

I'd have to agree with your friend that there seems to be less emphasis on the mecha in new mecha shows. This is not to say that the show aren't still merchandising machines for toys. However, it's likely the genre is attempting to broaden to increase appeal following what appeared to be a decline in the popularity of the mecha genre during the late 1990's.

[Oruma]

Gigantor is one thing, but why is Astro Boy also included as Mecha? It's more like a sentient robot/android, at least for me.

[Vent Noir]

Gigantor is one thing, but why is Astro Boy also included as Mecha? It's more like a sentient robot/android, at least for me.

As the article put it, "While Tezuka's Atom wasn't giant-sized, and wasn't a piloted robot or exoskeleton of any kind, he was Japan's first animated TV star... and he was mechanical". In the Gigantor discussion, they mentioned that the "boy robot" archetype was subsequently split into a boy and a robot.

[Albireo_818]

Gasaraki seemed to be a "landmark" series in it's realistic portrayal of mecha, although it wasn't very widely watched. Other than that, i'd have to a ggree with the whole "shows with mecha thing".

[Direct X]

Giant Robo was pretty epic. Wonder why that wasnt listed in the retro age (not really, I already can guess the reason)

[Mark064]

I have to disagree with "The Tranisiton" the timing is off. Transition as far as I can see started with Dougram. Evertything prior to that after Gundam was all super robot such as Go Lion, Daiohja, God Mars, Trider G7 and so on. Once we got Dougram the super robot shows dropped and we got more hybrids as well such as the J9s and Acrobunch which lead into Macross this is a true transition. Gundam might be the landmark series in this case but it still took another year for the transition to take place, possibly due to the movies. So this would extend Super Robot to God Mars.

"The Retro Craze" ok I definetly disagree with this. Yes there are remakes however that is ignoring the bigger picture and only a small ammount too. The clear thing we saw with the early 90s was a significant drop in age of the cast of the show. This was helped by Yuusha Exkaiser and continued with the rest of the Yuusha shows and the Eldoran shows as well. Of course but wasn't limited to those. Gundam even tagged along with the youngest Gundam pilot Uso.

Not sure how to break up the next part, to go from Eva or not. Really I'm stuck. Eva didn't really do much on the shows that followed it. The radical trend didn't last too long maybe only up to Vandread, some followed that too but then you get overlapping. With another more important trend.

Now really if you want a "Retro Craze" I'd call that from 2000 till now or maybe even 1998. Depends if you want to start from Shin Getta Robo or Shin Getta vs Neo Getta. Since we got tons of remakes of retro shows such as Mazinkaiser, Getter Robo, Dancouga, Jeeg, Gaiking, Reideen and so on, a very long list. Even in the land of Gundam we got SEED which was heavily influenced by First Gundam and the remade Zeta Gundam movies.

[Ryujin]

One should consider that the majority of shows in the seasons following Gundam would have already been in planning/production when Gundam was being aired, so would have a poor chance of being influenced. Asides from this delayed effect, there will also be producers who prefer to stick to proven formulas, diffusing the perceived boundaries even more.

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Rereading "The History of Mecha Anime" from an old issue of Animerica (from 2000 or so), and interested in seeing what people think are the ages of mecha anime. The ones they give are...

- The Beginning (Astro Boy and Gigantor)
- The Explosion (Mazinger Z to Mobile Suit Gundam): The Super Robot era
- The Transition (Mobile Suit Gundam to Superdimensional Fortress Macross): The beginning of the Real Robot subgenre
- The New Wave (Macross to Zeta Gundam): Real Robots dominate
- The Diffusion (Zeta Gundam and the OVA boom to the late 80s): The genre diversify, but the TV mecha anime bubble bursts at the end of the 80s
- The Retro Craze (Gundam 0080 to Evangelion): The early 90s are dominated by sequels and remakes.
- [No name given] (Evangelion to time of publication): Diversification again, as creators try radical new ideas

So there we have it... I'd say by now we're definitely past the Eva era, but I'm hard pressed to really name a landmark mecha show since then. Seed was popular and I liked it, but I'm sure I'd get flamed if I suggested it as a landmark series. Code Geass and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann are possible, but I feel it's too early to say for sure. A friend of mine has made the observation that there's been a shift away from "mecha shows" per se towards "shows with mecha in them", where the mecha are a side element rather than being the focus of the show.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Pretty much, there are a few discrepencies in this.

Whilst you got the beginning right, Gigantor would probably be the only which would count, as the proceeding titles are all giant robots. And that's all Gigantor, ahh crap that, I mean, Tetsujin ever contributed. The bare concept of Giant Robots. Yeah, Gigantor is the landmark here.

As for the explosion, I think it should be called the revolution. This is due to the fact that actually, Mazinger Z contributed far more to the mecha supergenre because aside from starting the awesome Super Robot genre, about 90% of the mecha anime with some form of emphasis on mechs have them piloted and not remote-controlled or AI in the style of Tetsujin 28. Mazinger introduced something very widely accepted by the fans, the concept of the mech being piloted like a car or something and the interactions between pilot and mecha. These things would be carried over to nearly all Giant Robot anime after that. Landmark here is Z, of course. Getter Robo would probably count, because it gave the start for the Team drama/dynamic that some mech shows use today aside from the obvious first combining robot.

As far as the Transition was concerned, their never was one. If there was, there would be little to no SR shows during the late 80s till present. If you want a better term, call it the Addition, as Gundam was the first introduction to the Real Robot genre, despite being heavily influenced by the SR genre. MSG would have to be the landmark here. Aura Battler as well, as Dunbine would lay the foundations for mixture robots/miscellaneous robots.

The New Wave? Its better called the Insurgence. Well, Real Robots were more notable in this era, but that doesn't mean to say that the SR genre was unpopular. It just means there was a greater insurgence of reals at this time. As for landmark series, Macross, Zeta Gundam and Char's counterattack would count for this.

The diffusion should probably be a term for 1988-1992. As more SR shows were popping up alongside the RR shows.

The 1990s to probably early 2000s should probably be called the new wave. This is because both genres saw new ideas that would constantly pop up in each. Good examples would be the AU Gundams and Evangelion. Another note would be the increase in Mixture Robots, as Brain Powerd and said Eva came at this time. Landmarks may probably be GaoGaiGar, Eva, and either G or Wing.

The Retro Craze overlaps the New Wave, but it actually starts in 1996, as a Raideen remake appeared at this timeframe (Umm, Raideen the Superior?). What followed was the remaking of many classic SR shows. Kaiser and Shin Getter (Whichever version be it Sekai Saigo no Hi or vs Neo Getter) are probably the most notable and would probably be the landmarks of this era. (It should be noted that the concepts applied to both were actually initially used in SRW. For all sake and purposes, I'd only like to count in animated appearances.) The Retro Craze pretty much continues to this day.

As for now, it would probably be called the New Mechallenium, but pretty much, is just a extension of the New Wave I stated. Practically starts at about 2001 or 2 till present. Simply, like the New Wave, just an introduction of more new ideas. As for a landmark series, the only truly notable ones could probably be Gurenn Lagan and 00.

[Recon 5]

About the 'landmark series', I disagree with 'only 00 and Gurren Lagann', and in fact I might even say that those aren't landmark series. Gurren Lagann and 00 were merely outstanding examples or their genre, more like 'new classics' than 'landmarks'. GL was a feel- good, fun- first, back- to- the- basics SR show with the awesome level turned up to eleven (and beyond). Nothing new there. 00 is 'Real Robot' with more 'real', more drama and a better story. Nothing new there either.

In fact, I don't think it is possible for there to be 'landmark' shows any more, in that its probably not even possible to make a genre- changing show anymore. Been there, done that.

At the very least, Gasaraki and REIDEEN (the newest one) deserve to be in there somewhere.

[Mark064]

Gurren Laggan is just adding to the retro craze as of late which is why they went back to super robot roots, fits in quite nicely.

With Gundam I don't think we can ever call Gundam a landmark show aside from First Gundam. Bandai/Sunrise will never put out a true landmark Gundam series again and they haven't since First Gundam. The shows follow the same formula, just slightly changing it each time. Which will never make it a landmark.

It's always possible to create a landmark show but the problem is that companies don't really take many risks anymore. To create a landmark should you have to take a risk and be different and have it pay off, personally I don't think mecha in general has had any sort of landmark show for a long time. I personally wouldn't even call Evangelion a landmark show as really, what has it influneced on current anime shows or even anime shows after it aired? It's popular but popularity doesn't mean landmark, which I think is confusing some people. I'm really struggling to find examples of actual many true landmark shows in mecha anime. Mazinger Z, Gundam and Macross are the ones that come to mind, but what after that? Maybe Yuusha Exkaiser due to the importance of kids in mecha anime?

[MrMarch]

Well this is a first for me, actually coming to the defence of NGE. Neon Genesis Evangelion unquestionably deserves it's landmark status in the mecha genre. Not only was it a innovator in mechanical design but most modern mecha shows, even Gundam and Macross, has embraced similar mecha motifs derived directly from Evangelion. Entire anime series like Rahxephon and Eureka 7 borrow heavily from NGE, some might argue to the point that these post-NGE shows are blatant copies. For every argument of success or failure, the show definitely delved into new territory for the mecha genre and merged real robot and super robot shows together with new themes of psychology/spirituality in ways rarely explored in mecha anime. I have no love for the show and will never hold NGE as approaching my own anime favorites. But I don't see how one can deny the obvious impact and influence of NGE despite it's questionable quality.

[Recon 5]

To clarify, a show can be excellent without being a 'landmark', just as a horrible show can be a 'landmark' as long as it influences an obvious change (or set of changes) in genre trends.

If the most beautifully animated, most profound and complex show with the most outstanding characters, acting and music slips under the radar and becomes a mere niche product, it won't be a landmark.

On the other hand, if a massively overhyped and over- advertised show fails miserably in every conceivable aspect, it would be a landmark because it would leave a footprint on the genre. Every studio would be scrambling away from elements that might be related to this massive bomb.

[Mark064]

Still I'm not seeing too much of an Eva impact on too many shows. At least as much as other landmark shows. Yes there are some examples Rahxephon, Eureka 7, Brain Powerd and Dual in a mecha sense. But as you said these are the blatant copies. It seems that a few shows went down the Eva path while the majority didn't. Which is exactly why I struggle to call it a landmark, or anything as such these days. No shows seem to be able to pull the Mazinger Z, Gundam or Macross impact anymore. I honestly can't think of any mecha motifs from Gundam that borrowed from Eva, maybe you can enlighten me?

On the other hand, if a massively overhyped and over- advertised show fails miserably in every conceivable aspect, it would be a landmark because it would leave a footprint on the genre. Every studio would be scrambling away from elements that might be related to this massive bomb.

Of course that is true in theory. But has there ever been a show like that? I can't think of anything remotely close to that in mecha. In any genre at all? Hard to imagine a show that would have failed in every conceivable aspect, or even close to that.

[flamingtroll]

I would think Eva has more of an impact in general anime than mecha specifically in terms of being a landmark. It still seems to be a relatively suitable candidate if one has to pick one simply because at least a good number of shows have tried to emulate it to various degree. I guess there arn't just any very groundbreaking mecha shows anymore after the 90s. I guess I can put in Patlabor 2? But that's just Oshii being Oshii.

And I won't call the supposed "Post-Eva" scene

[No name given] (Evangelion to time of publication): Diversification again, as creators try radical new ideas

It seems to me most creators are just rehashing and recombining old ideas thus far. If I were to call it something, I would actually call it the "Feminization" for mecha, as seen by the general trend of recent shows where they focus a lot more on character relations and romance with female-appealing character designs. That is actually something "new" to me

[Direct X]

Why is evangelion even listed as a mecha anime? It's more like Ghost In The Shell, where the angels were cybernetic-ally controlled. There is hardly anything mecha in that show.

[pozdniakov]

Why is evangelion even listed as a mecha anime? It's more like Ghost In The Shell, where the angels were cybernetic-ally controlled. There is hardly anything mecha in that show.

It basically is a Mecha show has lot of mecha attributes. Just because the fighting machines are biomechanical as opposed to robotic, doesn't mean they cannot perform the same role as a robot in the traditional sense of mecha anime. How else can you classify eva, if not a mecha show. If peoples preferences were based on categorisation of shows, it would be stupid.

[AU_Gundam MK II]

Still I'm not seeing too much of an Eva impact on too many shows. At least as much as other landmark shows. Yes there are some examples Rahxephon, Eureka 7, Brain Powerd and Dual in a mecha sense. But as you said these are the blatant copies. It seems that a few shows went down the Eva path while the majority didn't. Which is exactly why I struggle to call it a landmark, or anything as such these days. No shows seem to be able to pull the Mazinger Z, Gundam or Macross impact anymore. I honestly can't think of any mecha motifs from Gundam that borrowed from Eva, maybe you can enlighten me?

On the other hand, if a massively overhyped and over- advertised show fails miserably in every conceivable aspect, it would be a landmark because it would leave a footprint on the genre. Every studio would be scrambling away from elements that might be related to this massive bomb.

Of course that is true in theory. But has there ever been a show like that? I can't think of anything remotely close to that in mecha. In any genre at all? Hard to imagine a show that would have failed in every conceivable aspect, or even close to that.

Getter Robo pretty much set up the whole team dynamic in the mecha genre as well as introduced the concept of combining robots.

Dunbine practically introduced another genre within the mech Super Genre, the Mixture Robots.