Zaft Vs Civillians

[Dark Duel]

I can understand the mindset, but terrorists don't deserve sympathy. It's that simple.

[World's End Mecha]

With regard to Yzak's lack of a court martial:

I think Chairman Durandal somehow convinced people to forego war crimes trials against ZAFT pilots, using rhetoric about the mistakes of the ZAFT and EA government and not denying the PLANT youth their future. It wasn't stated beyond that, but it's implied that Durandal protected the ZAFT members.

Hence the reasons why Yzak convinced Athrun to return to ZAFT and support Durandal.

[Zero Revenge]

I can understand the mindset, but terrorists don't deserve sympathy. It's that simple.

I think you're missing the underlining point. It's quite possible that one man's Freedom Fighter/Patriot is another man's Terrorist.

If you're talking to me directly, then yes I agree. If we're talking about in the Point of View of Random Natural in Cosmic Era, then i'm making the point in the statement above.

[Antares]

World's End Mecha said:

Hence the reasons why Yzak convinced Athrun to return to ZAFT and support Durandal.

What, he said "come back you whiny blue-haired git, there is a new sheriff in town, and he is awesome! he got me off on all charges in my court martial so you know he keeps it real!"?

Dark Duel said:

I can understand the mindset, but terrorists don't deserve sympathy. It's that simple.

I think Zero Revenge is quite right to make the distinction here. There is, obviously nothing morally acceptable in terrorism, but its sources have to be understood and dealt with constructively. Sounds Orbish, I know, but as Zero Revenge said, ZAFT has to look to themselves also for some of the responsibility (not the same as blame) for creating a rich soil for BC and its like to thrive.

In a way it makes it seem like the ZAFTies like to take the high moral road so they can then act all crushed, surprised, and disappointed. And then their vengeance is a righteous one. But hey, that's the ball rolls, and I hardly hold them responsible for everything. A lot more could've been made out of the politics of GSD before the writers decided to concentrate on laming Shinn.

[Ork_dreadnought]

How is the government suppose to stop one man from being genetically tampered with? (And it was in absolute secrecy no less) I highly doubt anyone knew about his genetical difference until after he had already done everything that he did (including being an Astronaut) and being a total jackass saying "Let's create another divide between humanity! Let's have Coordinators! Yay!".

I know that this does nothing for your arguement, but that last sentance made me laugh my head off. It puts SEED in the same bracket as the Hitchhiker's guide

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Neither side of the conflict was especially kind to civilians, and both sides attempted extinction-level attacks more than once. When you look at the numbers, though, Naturals killed a grand total of about two million Coordinator civilians (approximately a quarter million Coordinators per PLANT, and seven PLANTs total destroyed between both Seed and Destiny; Junius 7 alone in the Bloody Valentine and six more in the Requiem attack) while Coordinators killed "tens of millions" of Naturals on at least two occasions (we're never given a precise death toll for either incident, but both the April Fools Crisis and the Break the World incident supposedly resulted in the death of "tens of millions" of Naturals, so logically speaking we're talking anywhere from 40 million to 200 million total).

To clarify on the Bloody Valentine incident; the account goes that the OMNI commander ordered a warning shot fired at Junius 7, but Blue Cosmos supporters loaded a nuclear missile instead of a conventional explosive onto the Mobius that was launched to take the shot. I'm not certain whether the missile was part of the ship's standard stores or it was smuggled aboard by Blue Cosmos, and likewise I'm not sure if the Mobius pilot was in on it or not. But it seems certain that the OMNI officers who gave the order was not in on it -- they were surprised as anyone else when Junius 7 went up in flames, and initially believed that ZAFT had self-destructed the colony.

[wzy]

Neither side of the conflict was especially kind to civilians, and both sides attempted extinction-level attacks more than once. When you look at the numbers, though, Naturals killed a grand total of about two million Coordinator civilians (approximately a quarter million Coordinators per PLANT, and seven PLANTs total destroyed between both Seed and Destiny; Junius 7 alone in the Bloody Valentine and six more in the Requiem attack) while Coordinators killed "tens of millions" of Naturals on at least two occasions (we're never given a precise death toll for either incident, but both the April Fools Crisis and the Break the World incident supposedly resulted in the death of "tens of millions" of Naturals, so logically speaking we're talking anywhere from 40 million to 200 million total).

To clarify on the Bloody Valentine incident; the account goes that the OMNI commander ordered a warning shot fired at Junius 7, but Blue Cosmos supporters loaded a nuclear missile instead of a conventional explosive onto the Mobius that was launched to take the shot. I'm not certain whether the missile was part of the ship's standard stores or it was smuggled aboard by Blue Cosmos, and likewise I'm not sure if the Mobius pilot was in on it or not. But it seems certain that the OMNI officers who gave the order was not in on it -- they were surprised as anyone else when Junius 7 went up in flames, and initially believed that ZAFT had self-destructed the colony.

Good point. But ZAFT generals probably weren't thinking of the politics behind the attack on Junius 7. All they knew was that they had gotten smacked by a nuke, and had to retaliate. And because of the Earth's greater resources, if they were gonna strike, it should be strong, fast, and effective so as to give them a better chance against a much wealthier foe.

[Antares]

wzy said:

But ZAFT generals probably weren't thinking of the politics behind the attack on Junius 7.

This suddenly brought a new question to mind: Who was PLANT Chairman at that time? I assume ZAFT couldn't mobilize without political backing here. Was Siegel Clyne's group in power back then too, because it was my understanding that people opted for Patrick Zala because Clyne wasn't making enough progress... But if you consider that his group was in power when it was decided to drop the N-Jammers and then drop troops to Earth, their moderate stance is shown in a new light, at least for me. It would suggest that even more moderate than Zala's guys, Clyne's posse was still willing to do some serious damage (and hurting civilians) to Earth as a retributive action, the loss of Junius7 in a nuke attack notwithstanding. Obviously you can't expect them to not react at all, but the way the war escalated, I have to wonder how moderate they really were. If someone has the information readily available if there was a different political faction in power back then, please post.

[Dark Duel]

The Bloody Valentine did indeed occur during Siegel Clyne's administration, as did the April Fools Crisis (the worldwide energy crisis caused by the drop of the N-Jammers).

Clyne was elected to the Supreme Council, along with Patrick Zala, in C.E. 58. Siegel Clyne became Supreme Council Chairman in C.E. 68, and held that post until his loss to Patrick Zala on April 1st C.E. 71, one year to the day after Operation Uroboros was begun.