Londo Bell jurisdiction

[Phantomexe87]

From what I understand (since there aren't too many reliable sources for this information), the Londo Bell is essentially the replacement of the Titans as the Federation's elite branch and colony inspection people, except more humane and with a lot of former AEUG members, etc. But does Londo Bell also have forces on Earth like the Titans did, do they have any jurisdiction on Earth, or is it just limited to space?

[teslashark]

Only a space fleet

[mcred23]

To expand on teslashark's short, borderline spamish answer, what units you see of Londo Bell in the movie is all they have. They are always undermanned and underequipped (Hell, prior to Char's forces taking Sweetwater, Londo Bell only had some Clop class crusiers), and since large scale anti-Federation movements (Like the AEUG and Char's Neo Zeon) are a lot more likely to form up in space, they only have their space unit and no ground-based formations that we know of.

And since they don't seem to have any Earth units, and we don't know whether or not any of the ships had Minvosky Craft systems or something else that would allow them to enter/operate on Earth, I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't have any jurisdiction for things happening on Earth (Of course, if the ships can pull a re-entry, then I would think the opposite...).

[Phantomexe87]

I see what you mean. I still wonder if the Federation goverment kept them so undermanned just because it was having financial difficulties, or if it learned its lesson from Gryps and was worried they might through a coup, as I recall Adenaur Paraya clearly didn't trust them.

As for the Minovsky Craft System that would be a great feature, though I suppose we have no way of knowing if they have it or not.

I do know they get the Nahel Argama in Unicorn, but haven't heard much else about it. But with the Nahel Argama they would have the ability to pull a re-entry. Granted, that doesn't necessarily give them any jurisdiction on Earth.

[Terrace]

I see what you mean. I still wonder if the Federation goverment kept them so undermanned just because it was having financial difficulties, or if it learned its lesson from Gryps and was worried they might through a coup, as I recall Adenaur Paraya clearly didn't trust them.

As for the Minovsky Craft System that would be a great feature, though I suppose we have no way of knowing if they have it or not.

I do know they get the Nahel Argama in Unicorn, but haven't heard much else about it. But with the Nahel Argama they would have the ability to pull a re-entry. Granted, that doesn't necessarily give them any jurisdiction on Earth.

The Federation could be trying to make sure that they don't get another Titans incident. It's a good precautionary measure -- if the best pilot didn't happen to be Amuro. Seriously, I thought they could trust his friends enough to give them the money they need.

[mcred23]

The Federation could be trying to make sure that they don't get another Titans incident. It's a good precautionary measure -- if the best pilot didn't happen to be Amuro. Seriously, I thought they could trust his friends enough to give them the money they need.

They probably thought they could trust the Titans too.

That said, while they could easily have a reason for making Londo Bell a larger force, they have just as many to keep the unit smaller (Their financial situation, tactical reasons, fear), although I'd think giving them an extra ship or two probably wouldn't be that big of a deal...

[Phantomexe87]

I think the Feds should really only start worrying if Londo Bell starts adopting mono-eyed suits, and 'redecorating' Londenion into a colony laser.

[Mark064]

It's not so much as the Federation worried about another Titan's incident, they didn't seem to be too worried about what the Titans were doing at all until after they lost. It's more along the lines that they were worried that the Londo Bell would revolt against the Earth Federation. This is also why Amuro was kept out of a Gundam. Newtype + Gundam = rebellion. Giving them a large well manned fleet and you see the possibility of another spacenoid uprising, give them a small fleet that threat isn't so great anymore.

Before Char made his decleration of war is a great example of this. Before this Bright is stuck on the Earth as a captain of a Sudry (from what I remember) and Amuro is in a Jeda. And of course their fleet is smaller.

I can't see much of a reason for the Londo Bell to go to Earth. The thing with the Earth Federation Space Forces is they are just basically sitting at the colonies. They aren't going out on patrols and what not. Londo Bell is the exception to this as they are moving out and about. I imagine the situation on the Earth would be different as if the Federation saw a threat they would move out. Afterall the Earth is the centre of the universe.

[Imperial]

I always thought it fairly obvious that the Federation was weary of another Titans-like debacle.

Being comprised of former AEUGers, their loyalty to the Federation isn't exactly unwavering. And even if it was, getting too big for their britches could lead to the kind of wanton abuse and delusions of grandeur that made the Titans so wildly unpopular.

Furthermore, the big wigs were likely complacent in thinking the fall of Neo Zeon had been enough to sap the strength of colonial movement for years to come. Londo Bell being crewed by the guys who fought the Titans was likely a means of dispelling some fears the colonists would have had at another counter-insurgent group.

Really, Londo Bell almost seems like a PR move that worked out by pure chance.

[Lans]

Think that Londo Bell as today US carrier fleet. Moving around from place to place to ensure the government policy carried out to the letter. It's a means to place some political and military presence and power to give the colony some tap on the back or a degree of pressure, to do the right thing EF wanted or at least stay away from the wrong way. They also acted as the EF bludgeon against such rebellion like Char's Neo Zeon faction. After all, Londo Bell is rather like a auxiliary fleet, mobile and agile able to active on prolonged mission, carry quite a load of firepower and strong enough to withstand the beating and return fire. Poor Londo Bell, they are always mistrusted. They're simply to veteran and too powerful to be equipped more than just decently. After all, they are the one who sink the all powerful Titans in the first place, their reputation and capability are renowned.

[Mark064]

I always thought it fairly obvious that the Federation was weary of another Titans-like debacle.

Being comprised of former AEUGers, their loyalty to the Federation isn't exactly unwavering. And even if it was, getting too big for their britches could lead to the kind of wanton abuse and delusions of grandeur that made the Titans so wildly unpopular.

Furthermore, the big wigs were likely complacent in thinking the fall of Neo Zeon had been enough to sap the strength of colonial movement for years to come. Londo Bell being crewed by the guys who fought the Titans was likely a means of dispelling some fears the colonists would have had at another counter-insurgent group.

Spoken like a true Spacenoid. The problem is the Titan's abuse of power was basically against the Spacenoids which the Earth Federation didn't seem to care about. If the EF actually cared about the Spacenoids none of this would have happened in the first place. The key thing to note about the Titans was the fact they never once went against the Earth Federation. Everything they ended up doing was for the Earth Federation, they fought for the Earth Federation as they were the Earth Federation. If Zeta Gundam had ended with the Titan's victory over AEUG they would remain in power.

I don't think the Earth Federation was complacent in thinking that the fall of Neo Zeon would have been enough to sap the strenght of the colonial movement for years. If that was really the case Londo Bell would have no reason to exist at all. Plus I still imagine there are calls from the colonies for autonomy and what not. Had the Londo Bell been given a bigger fleet these calls from autonomy plus a large fleet comprised or former rebels and Newtypes would have been a real threat in the Federation's eyes.

[Gadget]

So they report to who. The Feds? What could stop Bright and Armuro stage a Titan like rebellion? As AEGU vets that took down the Titans, taking the Feds is not going to scar them.

And what happen to Karaba. Were they absorbe into LB. Armuro was a Karaba's pilot, not AEGU.

And what happen to them by the event of F91 and Crossbone. I don't recall the LB's around. Were they disbanded after the death of Armuro and Char? Or did the Neo-Zeon became so weak that the role of Titans/London Bell was no longer needed. (Like SAC was dissolve?)

[Lans]

So they report to who. The Feds? What could stop Bright and Armuro stage a Titan like rebellion? As AEGU vets that took down the Titans, taking the Feds is not going to scar them.

And what happen to Karaba. Were they absorbe into LB. Armuro was a Karaba's pilot, not AEGU.

And what happen to them by the event of F91 and Crossbone. I don't recall the LB's around. Were they disbanded after the death of Armuro and Char? Or did the Neo-Zeon became so weak that the role of Titans/London Bell was no longer needed. (Like SAC was dissolve?)

Oh come on man, first of all it's AEUG not AEGU. and AEUG was a portion of EF so loyal to the Earth Federation (spacenoids in colony included) that they counteract against Titans. So their loyalty is nowhere near the question. Things like Londo Bell taking up the Feds is really out of the question. and about what could stop Bright and other to stage a rebellion is their sane mind to begin with. Why on their sober mind they would stage a rebellion against Earth Federation?

Even a rebellion starts with purpose, benefits and risk in mind. What benefit Londo Bell could possibly gained by going rebel? Even if they try, the crew of the fleet would began a mutiny since many of them should originated from the earth or at least loyal to the federation. The things that difference Londo Bell from the Titans is their scope of policy, they don't have ability to form a faction by any political will. They just act like a glorified EF henchmen, a military fleet through and through. While Titans have a degree of political authority with Jamitov around, the Titans even have delegation and seat on governmental events.

Other than that is Londo Bell position toward the spacenoids, while the Titans hate them to the brim (OYW and Stardust); Londo Bell because of their AEUG former campaign, are more moderate or tolerate against spacenoids. The problem is the popular oppinion. It's true that the even with former AEUG everywhere on the fleet, no body would trust them easily after the raise of Titans, especially the spacenoids. As to why the EF doesn't support them that much, I think it's because the fear of newtype. I read somewhere that EF never agreed on producing high performance MS for their ACE, Amuro. I think it's reliable since he rant that he's using MS that wasn't in par with enemy MS. He got the ReGZ custom but CCA is in 0093 the age of newtype weaponry, with funnels and bits being really decisive to the outcome of battle.

I think it's safe to assume that Amuro with Gundam really installed fear in EF high up brass. They simply fear because of the newtype mambo jumbo he would defect and bring his Gundam all along and fought against them. They simple couldn't afford to trust newtype yet, since Char over there on Neo Zeon is bragging all stuffs about his dad newtypes scheme and ideals. With this around, I imagine that even Bright have to stirred things up, maybe canceled more ReGZ or Jegan purchases and save money to buy Amuro a decent Gundam in par with Neo Zeon upper class MS.

[Kuruni]

And what happen to them by the event of F91 and Crossbone. I don't recall the LB's around. Were they disbanded after the death of Armuro and Char? Or did the Neo-Zeon became so weak that the role of Titans/London Bell was no longer needed. (Like SAC was dissolve?)

Not sure about our Londo Bell, but Neo Zeon's remnant were hunted by another taskforce call 306th Corp in Silhouette Formular 91.

Last time we heard about Londo Bell seem to be Unicorn Gundam.

Wait, according to Japanese Wikipedia, mention that Bright and Ra Cailum is part of 13th Autonomous Fleet in Hathaway's Flash. But it unknown if this 13th Autonomous Fleet is Londo Bell's alternate name or not.

[mcred23]

What could stop Bright and Armuro stage a Titan like rebellion?

And, to add to the lack of reasoning to revolt as lans* noted (Not to mention that the Titans never really did revolt, they just took over what they already had authority over, and then were given control of the entire EFF), Londo Bell is far smaller and has far less power than the Titans. Londo Bell, at it's peak with Bright and Amuro, had four ships in one unit with about twenty MS. The Titans, at one of their smallest points, had at least five or six Alexandrias (And with each being able to carry ten-to-twelve MS, two of them could carry more MS than the entire Londo Bell unit!) and the authority to order around any regular EFF unit they found (And power Londo Bell doesn't seem to have been given).

And what happen to Karaba. Were they absorbe into LB. Armuro was a Karaba's pilot, not AEGU.

Like the AEUG forces, Karaba ended up being folded back into the Earth Federation Forces when the Gryps War ended. Also, I believe that by late in the Gryps War or some point in the First Neo Zeon War, Amuro was back in space.

[Phantomexe87]

Last time we heard about Londo Bell seem to be Unicorn Gundam.

Actually Londo Bell (or a part of it anyway) shows up in Mobile Suit Gundam Silhouette Formula 91 in UC 0123, where they had the Neo Gundam(s). Though there's not much info on that.

[turkishproverb]

So they report to who. The Feds? What could stop Bright and Armuro stage a Titan like rebellion? As AEGU vets that took down the Titans, taking the Feds is not going to scar them.

Erm. The novelizations cover this in part. the Londo bell was only given discarded suits and such because the federation didn't trust them, particularly Amuro, whom they refuse the use of the Zeta or any other gundam, hence his having to build his own.

[mcred23]

Erm. The novelizations cover this in part. the Londo bell was only given discarded suits and such because the federation didn't trust them

Um... how are the RGM-89 Jegans that Londo Bell used as their mainstay unit considered "discarded" suits? They were brand new units when Londo Bell was using them, less than a two or three years old and just entering wide spread EFF service. Hardly a "discarded" unit (The only remotely "discarded" MS Londo Bell is known for using is the Re-GZ, and that was that way due to it's high cost not really deserving further production/development).

[turkishproverb]

Erm. The novelizations cover this in part. the Londo bell was only given discarded suits and such because the federation didn't trust them

Um... how are the RGM-89 Jegans that Londo Bell used as their mainstay unit considered "discarded" suits? They were brand new units when Londo Bell was using them, less than a two or three years old and just entering wide spread EFF service. Hardly a "discarded" unit (The only remotely "discarded" MS Londo Bell is known for using is the Re-GZ, and that was that way due to it's high cost not really deserving further production/development).

Arrg. I was referring to any special equiptment requests. The Jegan was becoming the standard unit for the forces. No threat in giving it to the Londo bell. However even then they were only standard ones.

[Phantomexe87]

I'm not seeing that, since the rest of the Federation Space Forces seemed to still be using GM IIIs, seemed like the Jegans were relatively new.