Federation in CCA

[jackman0932]

Did anyone find the Federation response to Char and his Neo Zeon inconsistent?

I still found it really hard to believe that the heads of the Federation would believe Char when he said he was going to surrender. I know Char bribed them with gold but I thought that the Federation long history with the Zeon would make them look at reason. I mean the One Year War only happen a little more than a decade ago and also the Delaz fleet incident happen 3 years after that. Not to mention the first Neo Zeon war in ZZ which Haman invaded Earth and also drop a colony on it. (if i remember correctly) I somehow doubt that the Federation would trust a Zeon when he says he is going to surrender and not drop anything more on Earth. Lets not forget that Char also drop 5th Luna on Earth at the beginning of the movie.

I find it really hard to believe that the Federation is full of such saps to accept Char's surrender and hand over Axis to him.
Does anyone have any insight on this? Thanks

[flamingtroll]

Well Zeon is pretty much depleted in resource and man power after OYW and the 1st Neo Zeon. Char's Neo Zeon movement only had the goal of dropping axis on to earth and that is IT, since without Axis Zeon is pretty much gone. They are mostly consisted of hardcore Zeon loyalist and are very limited in number. They cannot even fight an drawn out conflict with Federation even if Char wanted to. It's not surprising that Federation will accept their surrender, because it is gonna happen eventually. What the Federation didn't consider is Char's pretty much suicidal last ditch effort with the dropping of Axis.

[jackman0932]

i don't think that Char's resources and man power can be consider depleted. Since his fleet was compromise of brand new warships and moble suits i pretty sure that he has support from a signifinicant number of colonies and coporations (anaheim maybe?). I might be wrong about this but i think that in the movie someone said that char's fleet is made of about 30 ship. I'm pretty sure that there would be also be some forces left to guard the colonies so that would mean that Char isn't limited in numbers. I agree with you on that Char couldn't have fought a long war with the Fed since they have superior numbers. Also I don't think the axis drop was suicidal for char's forces since during the movie I think i only saw like two ships from char's side destoryed. This leaves the fleet pretty much intact and still able to fight

[mcred23]

i don't think that Char's resources and man power can be consider depleted. Since his fleet was compromise of brand new warships and moble suits i pretty sure that he has support from a signifinicant number of colonies and coporations (anaheim maybe?).

Char and the Second Neo Zeon's resources aren't depleted, just fairly limited. Remember, while some people did support them and they were based out of the Sweetwater colony, it's not like any other colonies openly went and joined his forces during the war. However, they clearly do have the support of Anaheim, who, as always, play both sides of the conflict (While they're building the Federations new Jegans, they also built the Neo Zeon Geara Doga's).

I might be wrong about this but i think that in the movie someone said that char's fleet is made of about 30 ship. I'm pretty sure that there would be also be some forces left to guard the colonies so that would mean that Char isn't limited in numbers.

Not quite. Char's fleet consists of the Rewloola, about a dozen Musaka class cruisers and (IIRC) roughly a hundred Geara Doga's (And of course, a handful of other units, like the Jagd Doga's and whatnot), all of which were deployed during the war, nothing was shown left behind to guard anything and they don't seem to have the numbers to do that anyway.


That said, to go back to the original question, no, the Federation's response to Char is in no way inconsistant. They believed his surrender and whatnot because it worked out (Seemingly) in their best interest, what with them getting that gold and whatnot (Which I believe Adenauer Paraya or someone mentioned was going to a welfare program or something like that), and they thought Char was being sincere. They were wrong, obviously, but those are the kinds of people that are shown (Fairly consistantly) to make up the Federation government.

[Arsarcana]

Not sure why their response surprises anyone. This is the Federation we're talking about. These are the guys who let the AEUG, Londo Bell, one training ship and the League Militaire do all their fighting for them at various periods and generally stuck their heads in the sand until the time came to make bad decisions. These are also the same people who gave Jamitov a private army with no oversight. Them trusting Char isn't terribly surprising.

[Koshernova]

Now that you mention it, the Federation is so ridiculously inept, I'm surprised it hasn't collapsed internally. Perhaps they are very efficient for internal management, but we've seen that for international relations they are terrible.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Now that you mention it, the Federation is so ridiculously inept, I'm surprised it hasn't collapsed internally. Perhaps they are very efficient for internal management, but we've seen that for international relations they are terrible.

According to G-Saviour, and I think most Gundam fans like to pretend that movie doesn't exist; I know I do, the Federation did collapse in the early part of the UC0200's.

[Kavik Ryx]

Though even in the second UC, the Feds have virtually no power. Let's look at their track record. Lost half of everything during the OYW. Had most of their ships nuked in 0083. Gave pretty much everything to the Titans from 0084 to 0088. Too tired post Gryps war to deal with Haman. By the second Neo Zeon War, they probably wanted to get things over with, and as usual didn't learn from past mistakes. In 0124, their decision was to wait and see how things went on. The only time they ever did anything was in 0153 against Zanscare, but that was probably because of League's connections. Also, for those who follow Gaia Gear, they once again gave authority over to Manhunter. Overall, the Federation has degraded into a sickly old man who always manages to keep himself alive.

[flamingtroll]

If you consider the position of the Feds, it is quite irrational strategically for Char to be dropping Axis on them anyway, because that would mean pretty much the end of Zeon as we know it. And knowing the Char from AEUG, it seems pretty natural for them to think that Char would just want Axis back as a stronghold for themselves at least until their next build up again, which will take a considerable amount of time. Giving them Axis, at least to them, would be a quick way to resolve the dispute and they get a good amount of gold for it, which the Feds would need anyway after fighting all those wars. And this is not even considering how corrupted and inept the Feds are themselves, which would make this more likely to happen.

[Phantomexe87]

For some reason, I always assumed Char's Neo Zeon was composed mostly of Side 2 citizens who survived the Titan's atrocities and wanted revenge., seeing as how its centered in Side 2 anyway. After all, Char was going with his father's (Zeon) ideology of colonial independence, not the Side 3 Zeon, which he denounced in his speech.

[mcred23]

This is the Federation we're talking about. These are the guys who let the AEUG, Londo Bell, one training ship and the League Militaire do all their fighting for them at various periods and generally stuck their heads in the sand until the time came to make bad decisions.

It is worth mentioning that Londo Bell and the mentioned training ship (And hell, most of the defense forces at Frontier Side) were all Federation soldiers, and the AEUG was made up largely of ex-EFSF soldiers, while the League Militaire was aided a few times by EFSF units. There is the theme of the Federation goverment being large inept and doing idiotic things (Like trusting Char with an asteroid), while the soldiers just keep on going and doing what's right.

According to G-Saviour, and I think most Gundam fans like to pretend that movie doesn't exist; I know I do, the Federation did collapse in the early part of the UC0200's.

Also worth mentioning that G-Saviour was removed from the official UC timeline several years ago, so everyone can ignore it without any loss.

If you consider the position of the Feds, it is quite irrational strategically for Char to be dropping Axis on them anyway, because that would mean pretty much the end of Zeon as we know it.

Not really. Char's Neo Zeon (Not Zeon itself, which was still quite alive and well at Side 3) still had the support of Sweetwater and as long as they'd cause a war (And a need for mobile suits), Anaheim would probably give them some help. Of course, their fleet and combat forces weren't very large, and I wonder if giving away that gold might have affected any later attempts to fund any wars or things like that....

And knowing the Char from AEUG, it seems pretty natural for them to think that Char would just want Axis back as a stronghold for themselves at least until their next build up again, which will take a considerable amount of time.

Of course, they do this days after Char dropped 5th Luna onto Earth...

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Also worth mentioning that G-Saviour was removed from the official UC timeline several years ago, so everyone can ignore it without any loss.

Considering G-Saviour was such a colossal Jackson Pollock, I'm not surprised.

[flamingtroll]

Not really. Char's Neo Zeon (Not Zeon itself, which was still quite alive and well at Side 3) still had the support of Sweetwater and as long as they'd cause a war (And a need for mobile suits), Anaheim would probably give them some help. Of course, their fleet and combat forces weren't very large, and I wonder if giving away that gold might have affected any later attempts to fund any wars or things like that....

I dunno. Popular support is one thing. Whether they actually have enough military infrastructure left is another. After losing that many times to the Feds, even if they have enough resource, they might not have enough people to fill its place. I don't see why anyone in Neo Zeon would just go along with Char if they are not desperate enough to do so.

Of course, they do this days after Char dropped 5th Luna onto Earth...

Except the Fifth Luna is smaller, mostly raw material asteroid and that they would have nothing left after dropping Axis. I am pretty sure Axis is much more suitable as a staging point than 5th Luna with all the military facilities already there. And Axis is probably big enough to be quite devastating if dropped, otherwise why would everyone be worried about Axis creating a nuclear winter while everybody on earth seems relatively fine with the fifth lunar hitting Lasha.

I think it is not too unnatrual that Feds would see Char's action as just blackmail to get Axis back.

[jackman0932]

Does anyone know exactly what happen to neo zeon after the axis drop.
I use to think that the Federation sent its fleet and wipe them out.
But after seeing the ships and mecha of the neo zeon in Unicorn, did the Federation sign a peace treaty or something with the neo zeon after the axis drop?

[Imperial]

Does anyone know exactly what happen to neo zeon after the axis drop.
I use to think that the Federation sent its fleet and wipe them out.
But after seeing the ships and mecha of the neo zeon in Unicorn, did the Federation sign a peace treaty or something with the neo zeon after the axis drop?

The idea of the Federation striking a peace treaty with Neo Zeon after that little stunt strikes me as incredibly stupid. It certainly wouldn't be a first for the Feds, but even their ignorance must know some bounds. After all, the Federation and Neo Zeon are on hostile terms in 0096, if Unicorn is to be believed. If you put any stock in Silhouette Formula, Londo Bell is still chasing Neo Zeon elements down as late as UC 123.

It's far more likely that the survivors went into hiding, not unlike the Principality of Zeon and the first Neo Zeon movement before them.

[Koshernova]

Now that you mention it, the Federation is so ridiculously inept, I'm surprised it hasn't collapsed internally. Perhaps they are very efficient for internal management, but we've seen that for international relations they are terrible.

According to G-Saviour, and I think most Gundam fans like to pretend that movie doesn't exist; I know I do, the Federation did collapse in the early part of the UC0200's.

I'm aware, which is why I didn't mention it. G-Saviour is no longer official UC canon, so it doesn't count.

Even if it did, the Federation would have lasted for over 200 years and numerous wars. Over time, the federation seems to become more and more inept and apathetic, not less. In the real world, any government with that level of fecklessness would've collapsed internally. Zeta, ZZ and CCA make a lot of sense to me because we follow a progression: totalitarian elements start to take over the Federation, after they fail the Federation is totally spent and spineless, and this trend follows on by the time of CCA. That it doesn't collapse due to popular upheaval is simply unrealistic.

But as I said, we never find out much about the internal workings of the Federation, so it may just be a very efficient bureaucracy internally, coupled with strong ideological components, and this may make it a more solid government than we realise. Otherwise, it makes no sense for them to get even past the first Universal Century.

[Chris]

Even if it did, the Federation would have lasted for over 200 years and numerous wars. Over time, the federation seems to become more and more inept and apathetic, not less. In the real world, any government with that level of fecklessness would've collapsed internally.

And in the real world, it has. I think a perfect example of this would be the Roman Empire. It took centuries of decay for the Roman Empire, specifically the Western part, to finally collapse from its own internal problems and barbarian invasions. I heard a quote once that said something to the effect of 'it took longer for the Roman Empire to fall than most over governments last.' I think the same is the case with the Earth Federation, especially by the time we get to the Space Age of Warring States. They've fallen so far that they let empires be formed out of their territory and do nothing to combat them. Whether G-Saviour happened or not, it's inevitable that one day the Federation will collapse. However, I don't think it would be replaced by a similar monolithic organization like CONSENT. It'd probably be more like V Gundam, with territories on Earth and space divided between a bunch of different factions, most of them probably at war.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Does anyone know exactly what happen to neo zeon after the axis drop.
I use to think that the Federation sent its fleet and wipe them out.
But after seeing the ships and mecha of the neo zeon in Unicorn, did the Federation sign a peace treaty or something with the neo zeon after the axis drop?

The idea of the Federation striking a peace treaty with Neo Zeon after that little stunt strikes me as incredibly stupid. It certainly wouldn't be a first for the Feds, but even their ignorance must know some bounds. After all, the Federation and Neo Zeon are on hostile terms in 0096, if Unicorn is to be believed. If you put any stock in Silhouette Formula, Londo Bell is still chasing Neo Zeon elements down as late as UC 123.

It's far more likely that the survivors went into hiding, not unlike the Principality of Zeon and the first Neo Zeon movement before them.

Yep, since a bit of the Mars Zeon/Oldsmobile Army is consisted of retreated Neo Zeon soldiers and even their units (RF Zaku, RF Gouf, etc) were primarily based on the Geara Doga and other data brought by Neo Zeon.