Axis

[wonton bob]

Probably answered years ago but I don't see it when I search. How was Axis formed? I'm not talking about the asteroid but the organization. Who was in charge before the Gryps war. When exactly was the asteroid occupied by Axis? In Stardust I see a "council" telling Haman that they were not starting a fight with the Federation. I don't see them stepping down for her take power later on. Was there an internal fight for power? Any stats on troop levels and # of ships?

I had originally thought that Axis was made up of vets from the OYW but in the Zeta tv series when Char escapes, Haman comments how inexperienced her troops are. Were these recruits from Side 3 or the moon? Basically any history about Axis.

[mcred23]

Can't really help with when the organization was formed (AFAIK, the former Zekes just arrived and set up, but there's probably more to that than I know), but I can help with some of the other bits...

When exactly was the asteroid occupied by Axis?

The Zeon forces arrived at the asteroid on March 28th, 0081.

In Stardust I see a "council" telling Haman that they were not starting a fight with the Federation. I don't see them stepping down for her take power later on. Was there an internal fight for power?

Not really. Haman's father, Maharaja Karn was the regent of Axis (Since Minerva was still a baby at the time) and when he died on August 9th, 0083, Haman seems to have inherited to spot (Even though she was only 16). I think those men were military advisors, but perhaps someone could check 0083 as I'm not really sure on that part.

Any stats on troop levels and # of ships?

I know I've heard some numbers tossed around before (I think they came from some novel or other written source) in regards to Axis' forces, but I'm not sure if they referred to just what they deployed during the Gryps War or overall or what (Not that I remember the exact numbers anyway).

I had originally thought that Axis was made up of vets from the OYW but in the Zeta tv series when Char escapes, Haman comments how inexperienced her troops are. Were these recruits from Side 3 or the moon?

I'd say they were probably just people from Axis. Of the thirty thousand people who went there at the end of the OYW, only ten thousand of them were soldiers, and certainly not all of them would be pilots, or remain as grunts years later when they entered the Gryps War. By that time, the majority of their combat troops were probably the younger pilots who'd been underage when they fled to Axis.

[Phantomexe87]

I always saw those other guys in Axis, the Admirals and advisors and what not, to make things more realistic. The idea of a 16 year old running an entire army, even by Gundam terms, is rather unrealistic. And ZZ cared little for realism, with Haman (21) having total power, and there being no real chain of command.

[wonton bob]

thanks red. But if Char spent time in Axis were there other aces that also visited Axis? Also I seem to remember in Stardust an order for any surviving troops of Delaz to be taken in by the Axis fleet. Any number of survivors?

[mcred23]

thanks red. But if Char spent time in Axis were there other aces that also visited Axis?

I don't think any others have been named. The histories of Zeon's aces is usually sketchy and rarely goes past the OYW, and for those that do (Such as Ridden and Matsunaga), they usually stayed in Earth Sphere following the war.

Also I seem to remember in Stardust an order for any surviving troops of Delaz to be taken in by the Axis fleet. Any number of survivors?

No, but it was very few pilots at the very best. Karius and I think another Rick Dom II or two got away and did make it to the Axis Fleet, but those are the only ones we see, and the rest of the Delaz Fleet units seemed to get wiped out by the EFSF, as IIRC the fighting ended by the time the Axis Fleet pulled out, and we weren't shown any other units even coming close to them.

[Gelgoog Jager]

GundamOfficial says:

Axis

An asteroid base established in U.C. 0072 by the Principality of Zeon and the lunar manufacturing cartel. Located in the asteroid belt that lies between Mars and Jupiter, this facility is originally used for resource mining, and during the One Year War it also serves as a way-station for the vessels of the Jupiter Fleet.

After the end of the One Year War, Axis becomes a place of refuge for renegade Principality soldiers fleeing the Earth sphere. Half the remaining Principality fleet eventually makes its way to Axis, along with ten thousand soldiers and twenty thousand family members and dependents. These renegades spend years struggling to create a livable home in the far reaches of the asteroid belt, all the while planning for their eventual return.

On February 6, U.C. 0086, the exiles finally begin their journey home. Axis, now fitted with a set of thermonuclear pulse thrusters, leaves the asteroid belt and sets off on a twenty-month voyage back to the Earth sphere, where it will dramatically change the balance of power in the Gryps Conflict...

In CDA, Char meets his wingmen Apolly and roberto at Axis. And I'm sure I read somewhere that the new Gihren's Greed game also places some Axis pilots like Rakan Dahkaran as MS pilots during the OYW.

As for their forces, IIRC, the Gwadan is supposed to carry about 100 Gaza Cs and most of the time it seems that this is the only forces Haman uses during the Gryps Conflict(with the Gwadan later replaced by the Gwanban).

I don't know the exact number of ships Axis had, but we know there are at least 2 Gwadans(Gwadan from Z and Gwaley from Sentinel) and 2 Gwanbans(Gwanban from Z & ZZ and Gwanzan from 0083), as well as at least 5 Endras (Endra I, Endra II, Sandra(blue), Mindra(yellow) and Rundra(or Landra, the red one)), if not more considering that the movies showed more Endra class ships.

I don't remember them using any old Zeon ships, so it's likely that the new ships were built using the parts and components of the ones they had. The only ship Axis built after arriving to the Earth Sphere is the Sadalahn.

As for MS, it seems that most of Axis MS of the AMX line were already at least on the prototype stage, with the exceptions of the Dooben-Wolf, Geymalk, Qubeley MPT and Gazu.

[toysdream]

The Axis forces have very few veteran pilots. Aside from Char and his wingmen, who left pretty early on, I think their only confirmed One Year War veteran is Rakan Dahkaran. It's not clear what became of Karius, let alone any other Delaz Fleet pilots who managed to reach the Axis ships, and judging from Gundam ZZ their average pilot quality is utterly abysmal. I suppose some of the older and more competent pilots who appear in ZZ could be veterans, though.

As for their fighting strength, I think I've posted this info a bunch of times, so folks might want to clip and save it this time.

In Tomino's Zeta Gundam novels, Char estimates that Axis has three Gwadan-class battleships and more than fifteen "enhanced Musai-class cruisers." A chart in the January 1986 issue of Newtype magazine likewise credits them with three Gwadans and twenty Zanzibar-class cruisers. If we assume that all these cruisers are actually the Endra class seen in the animation, then this gives us a pretty consistent figure.

The Axis forces soon lose most of their Gwadans - one is destroyed in Zeta Gundam episode 45 while escorting the Axis asteroid to its collision with the Gate of Zedan, and Haman's flagship is blown up in episode 46. (The Gwanban and Sadalahn later serve as replacement flagships.) But it looks like most of the Endra-class cruisers survive into ZZ, as Haman takes roughly eight along with her to Earth orbit, and we see at least ten fighting on Haman's side during the civil war of the final episodes.

As for mobile suits, the Axis forces start out with a few hundred Gaza C units. (250 according to the kit manuals, almost 300 according to Gundam Sentinel). They continue rolling out more during the course of Gundam ZZ, and according to Newtype magazine they have about 800 total by the time the organization falls apart into civil war. According to the Gundam Sentinel book, the Gwadan itself has an estimated capacity of more than thirty mobile suits, and Tomino's novels indicate that it deploys at least forty when it first shows up to meet the Argama.

-- Mark

[mcred23]

As for mobile suits, the Axis forces start out with a few hundred Gaza C units. (250 according to the kit manuals, 300 according to Gundam Sentinel). They continue rolling out more during the course of Gundam ZZ, and according to Newtype magazine they have about 800 total by the time the organization falls apart into civil war. According to the Gundam Sentinel book, the Gwadan itself has an estimated capacity of thirty mobile suits, although Tomino's novels indicate that it deploys at least forty when it first shows up to meet the Argama.

So that's where that 800 number came from! I've heard that in relation to some MS from ZZ several times over the years, but never knew which. Makes sense that the Gaza C was built in such numbers, seeing how cheap it probably was.

To go a little further in that area, are they any numbers on some of the later Axis/Neo Zeon designs, like the Gaza D or some of those other units they pumped out?

[Dean_the_Young]

Something that I want to ask is why did Axis leave when it did? By the sounds of it, didn't they leave before the AEUG really got rolling? If the AEUG had gotten hit hard before Axis showed up (the Jaburo trap catches their forces, Karabara gets caught (or loses its transport) and Earth is a secure Titan bastion, the Titans keep Von Braun on the moon, etc.), what would have kept the Titans from tearing into Axis as soon as it arrived? Axis was making a gamble, I know, but still...

[mcred23]

Something that I want to ask is why did Axis leave when it did? By the sounds of it, didn't they leave before the AEUG really got rolling?

Leave? Axis didn't even return to Earth Sphere until late in the Gryps War, months after Jaburo and the Titans short control of Von Braun and things like that, they arrived a few weeks before the major battles near the end of the war.

[Imperial]

I believe Dean is referring to the decision to leave the asteroid belt, rather than leaving the Earth Sphere.

It is a very good question, though.

Perhaps Haman thought she could overwhelm the Titans with the superior numbers of her Gaza hordes. After all, quantity over quality won the war for the Federation the first time around, so maybe Haman decided to fight fire with fire.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's what I meant: the decision to leave the asteroid belt. It's like a Xanatos Roulette on Haman's part. She sends Char and his wingment to infiltrate the EF, starts off from the Asteroid belt, arrives just in time to become the pivotal player in a rebellion that has had multiple near-disasters, and goes around double-crossing everyone at least twice.

[toysdream]

So that's where that 800 number came from! I've heard that in relation to some MS from ZZ several times over the years, but never knew which.

Specifically, the Newtype article claimed that Haman's forces had 500 machines and Glemy's faction had 300, with each side having about ten ships. We barely see any of Glemy's forces in the animation, but most of the battle is offscreen, so I suppose we may as well take their word for it.

To go a little further in that area, are they any numbers on some of the later Axis/Neo Zeon designs, like the Gaza D or some of those other units they pumped out?

Nope. But here's one little data point...

The original Gundam Sentinel serial in Model Graphix magazine claimed that one Gaza E was assigned to each Axis mobile suit company, and the photos that accompany the story consistently show one Gaza E for every five Gaza Cs. From this slender evidence, we can guesstimate that the Axis forces are grouped into companies of six mobile suits each, and that the Gaza E makes up one-sixth of their initial forces. This would help explain why Gundam Sentinel claims Axis has 300 Gaza C units, while the Ga Zowm kit manual says 250; they actually have 250 Gaza Cs and 50 Gaza Es, for a grand total of 300 Gaza types.

So perhaps fifty units is a good ballpark guess for rare production types like the Gaza E and Ga Zowm. The Gaza D might be more numerous - they're supposed to be fairly common, although they seldom appear in the animation until episode 43 - and the Axis forces end up producing tons of Galluss J, Zssa, and Dreissen units.

-- Mark

[Grand Admiral Revil]

Regarding the Axis Council, while watching Char's Counterattack with my brother (a fellow Gundam nut) recently, he noted that one of Char's more prominent advisers resembles one of the members of the Axis Council.

Curious, I checked 0083 episode 9 and sure enough, this gentleman:
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9531/screen02rn7.jpg

bears a striking resemblance to this gentleman:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3228/screen05fk0.jpg

Certainly he looks a bit beefier in 0083 and has different hair colour. but that's nothing that can't be explained away through 10 years aging, hard living in the asteroid belt, and surviving two wars. Something to ponder, no?

[Koshernova]

That´s interesting, Revil! I don't understand why the 0083 animators gave him that weird uniform, however. It looks like nothing Axis, the EFSF or the Principality of Zeon ever issued...

[toysdream]

Regarding the Axis Council, while watching Char's Counterattack with my brother (a fellow Gundam nut) recently, he noted that one of Char's more prominent advisers resembles one of the members of the Axis Council.

Wow, you're right! It's hard to tell from the animation, because of the angle and the way his face is drawn, but I just compared the line art for these two characters and they're definitely the same guy. In particular, there's a downward head shot in the Gundam 0083 character model sheet that is clearly based on a similar view of Holst from the CCA model sheet. I'll scan 'em so you can see for yourselves. This has to be the most obscure 0083 cameo of all!

-- Mark

[Cardi Doorl]

That´s interesting, Revil! I don't understand why the 0083 animators gave him that weird uniform, however. It looks like nothing Axis, the EFSF or the Principality of Zeon ever issued...

Could it be possible that he was more of a civilian official rather than a military one before he ran off to Axis?

[Koshernova]

Could be, although civilian leaders are semi-consistently shown in the U.C. to simply wear the standard shirt-suit-and-tie that real-life politicians wear, and not some made-up uniforms...

But hey, I'm questioning logic in 0083 here, of all places.

[Cardi Doorl]

True on all points, including the implied one in your last sentence (;)), but it could be that, after running off to Axis, he made a fancy uniform for himself so he wouldn't look too threadbare amongst the many military officials?

It's a stretch, I know, and improbable. Using Occam's Razor, it's more likely that he's a military official like the rest and simply has a weird uniform for whatever reason, but... never mind...

[toysdream]

Okay, here's a line art comparison. The character on the left is an Axis official from Gundam 0083, and the character on the right is Holst, a Neo Zeon official from Char's Counterattack. Looks like a slam dunk to me.

As for his 0083 costume, we see a few men wearing these in the 0083 scene. I suspect they're probably for adminstrative officials who don't hold an actual military position but want to feel important.

-- Mark