Harshin' the MS Igloo Buzz

[Kishiria]

Everybody and their pet poodle knows that I'm the biggest (or perhaps second biggest) Zeon fan around, and even I didn't like this.

One of the things that makes Gundam a great franchise is the characters. Even in a 13 episode OAV, chances are that there's a character we like, even if he or she isn't terribly well fleshed out. Even if the story isn't great, generally it's somewhat enjoyable.

Let me summarize this one for you. Engineering Lt. Oliver May flashes back to a Zeon higher-up with a monocle giving him demoralizing news about the new weapon he has to test. A test pilot who has more issues than National Geographic shows up to test the weapon. The weapon ends up in combat. The pilot resolves his issues right before he heads off to Valhalla. Oliver is sad. Repeat five times.

Oliver has all the personality of my sock drawer and the rest of the characters aren't much better. Monique Cadillac is shrill and angry. The captain is down on his mission and I'm surprised bridge crew weren't killing themselves in his mere presence. Jean-Luc Duvall is arrogant. And Herbert von Kuspen can't decide if he's a refugee from "Dr Strangelove" or "In Vain Doth Valour Bleed". (I have a theory that the creators of this one actually read that fanfic, truthfully.)

Everything looks great because of the CGI, but we can get that from any of the Gundam games. Although I did enjoy seeing Char in action at the Battle of Loum, in the manoever that earned him the title of "Red Comet".

The retcon Germanification of Zeon is rampant in this, which really bothered me.

Bits were enjoyable but overall, this left me feeling as discontent as my icon looks.

[VF5SS]

MS Igloo is really meant to be flashy with little plot. I must say that I'm rather miffed at all the pointless Retcons and more stupid, "THIS COULD HAVE TURNED THE TIDE" weapons. I agree that none of the characters were really interesting or amiable.

The Hildorfr episode was especially bad. The thing was utterly invincible and its opponents were morons. I know Gundam likes to show Federation officers being jerks, but MS Igloo takes it to some awful extremes. A band of EFF pilots in stolen Zakus? Ok that's good. Not trying to use a heat hawk (Czario just attempts to pistol whip the Hildorfr to death) was dumb. As was walking away from the Hildorfr after it killed his entire unit. He could have at least put a few more bullets into it or turned it over before attempt to kill the completely defenseless Koumusai. And I thought those guys were supposed to be smart. Well, maybe not. At least they figured out that walking up to random supply bases and asking for 120mm ammo was the Zeon equivalent of a free pass.

How about those GM pilots laughing at the Zudah and then chasing it down like idiots? That was silly.

I suppose at the very least, Captain SS Officer had a cool Gelgoog. I own the HCM Pro.

[Kavik Ryx]

You know, this is starting to look like a bashing thread, now in the words of Phoenix Wright, OBJECTION! How I saw the series was as the true reason why Zeon lost the war. While the Gundam turned the tide in the Fed's favor, common knowledge among OYW is that Zeon's own infighting and waste of resources prevented them from keeping their ground. Personally, my favorite scene was when the HLVs and J type Zakus were "drowning" in space and the Balls came up and massacred them. That was truly heart gripping.

[Neo-Era]

My pet name for this show is Monster-Of-The-Week: The Series.

[wing zero alpha]

I think the thing I myself hated about MS IGLOO was the German stereotypes used. I mean sure, like Kishiria and others I'm an avid reader of His Divine Shadow's fanfiction, but even he didn't use as many Nazi-inspired characterizations. Here are a few I can think off the top of my head:

Oliver May - Poster boy for the Arian Race
Monique Cadillac - Female SS type
Jotunheim captain - Can we say Admiral Donitz?
Jormungand gunner - Kriegsmarine, pure and simple; could slip him on a U-boat and nobody would notice
Jean-Luc Duvall - Zeon's version of the World War II ace Erich Hartmann
Hildorfr tank driver - Looks like he crawled out of Rommel's Afrika Corps
Monique's brother - Hitler Youth (if he survived the war, maybe he'd become Pope)
Herber von Kuspen - Even Chris said this guy was a SS wannabe

I could probably put more down, but I really don't feel like it. I think I made my point anyway.

[J-Lead]

While I certainly have my agreements and disagreements, Kavik has a point. This is, more or less, a bashing thread, as this topic seems like it was brought up out of the blue just to voice dissatisfaction with MS IgLoo. We typically wouldn't be allowed to do this for SEED, I don't see why it's okay to do it for anything else, reguardless of how popular it is. But I guess that's all up to the mods.

[AmuroNT1]

I pretty much agree with everyone else, but I have to say.

A test pilot who has more issues than National Geographic

This gave me a rather hearty laugh.

[Ragormha]

Honestly, lay off MS IgLoo, it wasn't the best series but there have been worse.

Yeah it was boring at times and formulaic, but I thought it was pretty good and provides a good view of the war from Zeon's viewpoint.

I did dislike the whole Nazi-it-up tinge on everything and the general incompetence of EAF pilots, but honestly wasn't that bad; the fight scenes were pretty interesting and some of the characters were nice, such as the pilot from "I Can See the Sea in Jaburo's Sky" (or something like that)

[RGM-79 GM]

Honestly, lay off MS IgLoo, it wasn't the best series but there have been worse.

Yeah it was boring at times and formulaic, but I thought it was pretty good and provides a good view of the war from Zeon's viewpoint.

I did dislike the whole Nazi-it-up tinge on everything and the general incompetence of EAF pilots, but honestly wasn't that bad; the fight scenes were pretty interesting and some of the characters were nice, such as the pilot from "I Can See the Sea in Jaburo's Sky" (or something like that)

Hate to get off-topic but the EAF isn't in Igloo.

[mutantshark]

I have to say I really enjoyed MS Igloo - but its certainly not without its flaws. The Nazi-style imagery is just... well... at times its just borderline offensive. I mean - in the last episode where May's face appears in space with the 'Zeon' flag waving behind him gently in the wind? This aryan warrior crusading against injustice - I almost want to puke.

[Ragormha]

Sorry GM, I generally use EAF for a catch-all as Earth-Allied Forces, so I often call The Earth Sphere Alliance from Gundam Wing EAF as well, it's faster.

[RGM-79 GM]

Sorry GM, I generally use EAF for a catch-all as Earth-Allied Forces, so I often call The Earth Sphere Alliance from Gundam Wing EAF as well, it's faster.

I used to do the same thing. Anyway I should just stop posting now to stop what I caused.

[Kratos]

I mean - in the last episode where May's face appears in space with the 'Zeon' flag waving behind him gently in the wind? This aryan warrior crusading against injustice - I almost want to puke.

Thta definitely wasn't just in the last episode...in fact, if I recall correctly, it actually occurred at the end of EVERY episode in the series. I don't mind it, though; I see it less as an "aryan warrior crusading against injustice" as I do a sort of really blatant Zeon pride.

Anyways, I have no real issues with MS IgLoo. I didn't get attached to any characters, really, and the Nazi imagery was played up a bit much (although I don't think the "Sieg Zeon!" cheer was ever used), and the Feddie pilots were portrayed a bit unfairly, but I hardly found it unenjoyable. Certainly, it was much better than I initially expected it to be.

[Imperial]

Honestly, lay off MS IgLoo, it wasn't the best series but there have been worse.

Yeah it was boring at times and formulaic, but I thought it was pretty good and provides a good view of the war from Zeon's viewpoint.

I did dislike the whole Nazi-it-up tinge on everything and the general incompetence of EAF pilots, but honestly wasn't that bad; the fight scenes were pretty interesting and some of the characters were nice, such as the pilot from "I Can See the Sea in Jaburo's Sky" (or something like that)

It didn't really do a very good job in anything it set out to do.

The whole "Zeon's perspective" quickly gets shafted in favor of "shiny new toy--er, new secret weapon!" The characters aren't around long enough to get much, if any, development.

Most of them were stubborn idiots to the very end--especially Duvall, who thought it would be a good idea to let his machine explode, as if it actually proved anything. The characters are supposed to have grown by the time the episode ends, making us feel bad, but none of them really did. Duvall was ranting about how great the Zudah was. Von Kuspen was still suicidally narrow-minded. Ad nauseum.

That, in and of itself, irritated me. The Zudah we see in the show is just the old Zudah with a new serial number. And yet GMs have engine trouble trying to keep up with it. The heck? The GM may not be a high performance machine, but one would think it could keep up with a machine inferior to the Zaku I. And that's just one of many techonological idiocies in the story. Most of the weapons didn't even make sense.

[Ork_dreadnought]

To be fair, the only problem I've ever had with it was the depiction of Federation forces, they seemed too thuggish for Gundam. The episodic nature of things, Nazi aspects weren't something that bothered me. I watch the Gundam OVAs because I want the war drama aspects of the franchise, without having to face 50 episodes with another damn angsty child soldier as the lead.

Now for a vast, sweeping and probably imflammatory generalistation. I think a few people here missed the point of the exercise. MsIgloo was aimed directly at hardcore UC Gundam fans, the sort who liked Zeon MS and the serious warfare side to things. Or put another way, most of the posters on this board. In this respect it was just as business driven as Seed is often accussed of being. So guys, you got exactly what you were crying out for when Destiny was on, and I'm surprised that people are actually unhappy.

[Kratos]

That, in and of itself, irritated me. The Zudah we see in the show is just the old Zudah with a new serial number. And yet GMs have engine trouble trying to keep up with it. The heck? The GM may not be a high performance machine, but one would think it could keep up with a machine inferior to the Zaku I. And that's just one of many techonological idiocies in the story. Most of the weapons didn't even make sense.

I thought that the Zudah was supposed to be superior to the Zaku I, only immensely unsafe in the process.

[Ork_dreadnought]

I thought that the Zudah was supposed to be superior to the Zaku I, only immensely unsafe in the process.

Correct. The Zudah was overpowered to the point of stupidity. Then again, one does wonder why the GMs where so dumb as to give chase.

[Kavik Ryx]

Personally, I think that MS Igloo was supposed to be a rather impersonal series. It is common knowledge that Zeon was producing more than they had resources for and built many unnecessary and expensive weapons. The Apsalus, the Gyan, the Kamfer, were all good units, but never made it past a few prototypes. This is the same story but from an engineering and political point of view, simply put, it serves its purpose.

[J-Lead]

I thought that the Zudah was supposed to be superior to the Zaku I, only immensely unsafe in the process.

Correct. The Zudah was overpowered to the point of stupidity. Then again, one does wonder why the GMs where so dumb as to give chase.

...and why their generators overloaded before the Zudah's...

That said, yeah, the nazification of Zeon was a little overdone in this series, but Nazi-like tendancies have been around ever since MSG, and were further enunciated in 0080, a little less in 0083 (which is ironic in a way,) and a little here and there in 08th MS team. With that in mind, the total Nazification didn't phase me at all, but rather it made me look at it from interesting perspective. (I was always interested in history of Nazi Germany, after all.)

...and the CGI rendition of A Baoa Qu really gave me more of a feeling for the Zeon soldiers' circumstances there. All in all, IgLoo isn't without it's flaws, but I find that it is far from mediocre.

[Cardi Doorl]

...but Nazi-like tendancies have been around ever since MSG...

I'm so tempted to contest this, as I often do when somebody makes the claim that distinct Nazi parallels were around in original series, but I fear I'll be shoving this thread far off topic.

That said, I might pick up some Igloo when it releases in the US (though the high Bandai Visual prices get me all hesitant). My having not seen Igloo myself, I can't really pass judgement.

From what it sounds like, though, even as I try to dig through bashing posts, is that Igloo is a bit like 0083, in that it's pretty and has cool battle scenes, but you won't find yourself caring at all for the characters. Hell, even the posts defending Igloo sound like they're saying that.