Tomino's influences when creating Gundam...

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Koshernova
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Tomino's influences when creating Gundam...

When I first started lurking here at the MAHQ forums, I saw a lot of threads, mostly by someone with Kishiria as their avatar, analysing a myriad aspects of the original Gundam series, particularly Zeon. I rarely see great, interesting threads like that anymore, so I thought I'd take a stab at starting one to get the ball rolling. Ambitious, I know...

The topic at hand is that of the inspiration for creating the original Gundam universe, as well as the philosophy, science fiction and plain old science behind it. I have never read an interview with Yoshiyuki Tomino on the subject, so I have no idea if some of these are actual influences on Gundam...

Back in the '70s, NASA was investing some time and money into researching space habitats. Many papers were, indeed, written on the subject, with the seminal book The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space by Gerard K. O'Neill, as well as Colonies in Space by T.A. Heppenheimer.

We know that Tomino was familiar with O'Neill's habitats, as they feature very promently throughout his original Gundam setting. Moreover, it is pretty clear that Tomino was familiar with the reasoning behind Space Colonisation, a goal which NASA recognises as its ultimate goal to this day. The website Gundam: The High Frontier is, indeed, a very authoritative source which shows just how intricately planned the world of the Universal Century truly was.

What surprised me, however, is that I found a quote by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky which was paraphrased, quite often, in Zeta Gundam by everyone's favorite red-suited pilot, Char Aznable. Tsiolkovsky was a scientist who worked for both Imperial Russia as well as the Soviet regime, mainly in rocketry and astronautics, being one of many pioneers in this field. Tsiolkovsky broke a lot of ground, calculating how to put a manned craft in orbit, creating the idea of the space elevator and was an early advocate for space colonisation. He died in 1935, so that gives you an idea of the kind of visionary he was.

At any rate, the quote in question:

"Man must at all costs overcome the Earth's gravity and have, in reserve, the space at least of the Solar System."

Indeed, that quote would not look out of place as part of an AEUG press release. Char himself often talks about Earthnoids having "souls dragged down by gravity". Moreover, during the Dakar speech (based on the US dub), Char states:

"From the dawn of history, mankind has played in this cradle called Earth. But now, humanity must leave the nursery behind. Our infancy has come to its end."

Compare with another quote by Tsiolkovsky:

"The Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever."

I don't know if Tomino read any of Tsiolkovsky's treatises. I dare say he perhaps read of them in other, more contemporary books on space colonisation. But he obviously did proper research if he stumbled across Tsiolkovsky's philosophies.

The Newtype issue is also included in this, mostly related to how Tsiolkovsky's ideas were influenced by Russian philosopher, Nikolai Fyodorov. This philosopher postulated the idea that humankind could only evolve through artificial means, and was a very early advocate of transhumanism (he died in 1903). In Fyodorov's view (oversimplifying a bit here), humans ought to achieve immortality by scientific means, proceeding then to embark on the resurrection of all humans who have passed away, as their life experiences are lost with death.

Tsiolkovsky's spin on Fyodorov's ideas was that the advancement of humans towards immortality and full freedom from the mortal coil would come about by moving to space. Needless to say, this is the philosophy extolled by Zeon Daikun in the Universal Century, and is indeed the basis for the idea of Newtypes in that universe. At least, for the philosophy regarding Newtypes. Tomino becomes very cynical after the first Gundam series, and proceeds to shoot down the idea that there is any hope to be had in Newtypes...


That's all I have for now, I welcome any corrections, additions, questions, answers, etcetera. But no flames :(
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Robert A. Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers is often cited as the initial inspiration for the Mobile Suits in Gundam.
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I'm not surprised to find homages to Tsiolkovsky in Gundam. I would suspect plenty of real world science was an influence on Tomino. I mean, what else would one use to create the "real robot" genre if not reality? Most of the best mecha anime has been built on what creative fiction came before and the influences of real science. The Super Robot genre of anime and Lucas' Star Wars were also inspirations for Gundam.
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From Anime Interviews: The First Five Years of Animerica, Anime & Manga Monthly (1992-97) (interview from 1993):
Q: What influenced your creation of the Gundam concept?

Tomino: I don't think there are any animated works that have had a specific influence on the creation of the Gundam world. In regard to live-action, there have been quite a few that I have not only liked but been influenced by. I very much like Akira Kurosawa's films, especially the action films. I like the very quiet films of Yasujiro Ozu. And I particularly like the U.S. film Destination Moon. Its depiction of space did influence me, it's where I got my feeling for space conditions from. It's very outdated now, but it was revolutionary at the time.

Q: How did the space colony concept and the Star Wars movie influence Gundam?

Tomino: The space colony concept and Star Wars were very much an influence on me; in fact, you could say they're the basis for the whole Gundam drama. I already had the story outline done when the movie was released and, frankly, I felt extremely frustrated and bitter. In the United States a film like Star Wars could be made in live-action, whereas in Japan we were in a position--or I was in a position--where I had to make my story in robot animation...and I don't particularly like robot animation.
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I was in a position--where I had to make my story in robot animation...and I don't particularly like robot animation.
BEST. QUOTE. EVER.

It's only made more ironic by the fact that most of Tomino's work is, in fact, robot animation. Heh, I guess a general disdain for a genre is what's needed to change, nay, revolutionize it.
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Well, of course. Really, this allows you to kick what doesn't work to the curb and keep the few things that do.
However, you've also gotta have the talent to pull it off - as well as a staff who knows what the hell you're doing. Some American filmmakers have the vision of someone like Tomino... but then never share it and scratch their head when the movie flops.
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The tricky thing about assessing the influences on Gundam is that Tomino himself didn't originate the project. Some of the most important decisions had already been made by the time he was brought on board, and ironically some of the production histories I've read give the impression that Tomino was hired for the project specifically because he had experience with robot shows.

The original concept, as conceived by Eiji Yamaura of Sunrise's planning department, was to do a space version of Jules Verne's adventure novel "Two Years' Vacation." This notion of castaway kids in space also led to the later series Round Vernian Vifam. The idea of adding robots came from one of the sponsors, the toy company Clover, and it was Studio Nue's legendary Haruka Takachiho who suggested modeling these robots on the powered armor suits of Starship Troopers. It was only after this that Tomino joined the project.

So what did Tomino add? I think it's fair to credit him with all the space development stuff, including the Tsiolkovsky concepts that Kosh mentions. The Newtype idea, although it builds on the generational conflict of Verne's novel (young=good, old=bad), seems like Tomino's baby as well. From what I've seen, neither of these ideas were present in earlier versions of the series plan. When it comes to the robots, though, I think he was just making the best of the hand he'd been dealt.

-- Mark
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So really, Tomino contributed nothing to the idea of the Gundams themself? Just the Universe in which they were set in?
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Phantomexe87 wrote:So really, Tomino contributed nothing to the idea of the Gundams themself? Just the Universe in which they were set in?
Well, that's hardly "nothing"! He also shaped the actual story, the characters, and all those other little things. That's a lot more work than just throwing together a couple of basic concepts.

But this also shows why Tomino is always credited alongside the pseudonymous "Hajime Yatate" to reflect the contributions of everyone else who helped plan the show. As far as I know, the only Gundam anime for which Tomino is given sole credit is Char's Counterattack, since that was adapted directly from his novels.

-- Mark
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No, no I mean the idea of Gundams, the machines themselves.
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I thought the revolutionary thing about Gundam was that it emphasized the universe and setting and characters over the machines.
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Phantomexe87 wrote:No, no I mean the idea of Gundams, the machines themselves.
The use of giant robots was requested by the Clover toy company, Studio Nue provided the conceptual basis, and Kunio Okawara had already begun designing them before Tomino joined the production. So no, Tomino didn't exactly come up with the idea of the mobile suit. After all, he hates robot anime. :-)

-- Mark
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toysdream wrote:
Phantomexe87 wrote:No, no I mean the idea of Gundams, the machines themselves.
The use of giant robots was requested by the Clover toy company, Studio Nue provided the conceptual basis, and Kunio Okawara had already begun designing them before Tomino joined the production. So no, Tomino didn't exactly come up with the idea of the mobile suit. After all, he hates robot anime. :-)

-- Mark
Wait, wait, if hates them so much, how did they become his specialty?
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Kavik Ryx wrote:Wait, wait, if hates them so much, how did they become his specialty?
Circumstance and reality. I read in an interview that he wanted to be a serious novelist, but he's been working in the anime field for almost all his professional life. I think he became a victim of his own success when Gundam became a nationwide phenomenon, but even before then he had a long list of robot credentials. Why do something if you hate it? Work is work, and you have to make money and pay the bills somehow, even if it means doing something you're not exactly thrilled with.
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Chris' last line could probably be the main reason behind Tomino's depression, or at least one of the larger reasons. Man, what a life to lead...
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You know, I just realized that the interview is from 1993, right about the same time as Victory. Hmm, I see a correlation. I mean, it's safe to say that Tomino was at a kill 'em all high while working on Victory. It's also safe to say that his disdain for the genre shown through at times.

i'd say it was even more apparent in Turn A (as far as I hear. I've only seen a few of the first episodes.)
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You know, I just realized that the interview is from 1993, right about the same time as Victory. Hmm, I see a correlation. I mean, it's safe to say that Tomino was at a kill 'em all high while working on Victory. It's also safe to say that his disdain for the genre shown through at times.

i'd say it was even more apparent in Turn A (as far as I hear. I've only seen a few of the first episodes.)
Although I think its pretty safe to say that by the time Turn A came out Tomino was all finished with his "Kill Em All" phase, which effectively ended with Victory Gundam.

And not to imply that anyone has said it, but hopefully we can avoid the speculation that Tomino's "Kill Em All" style occurred because he was depressed. In fact Tomino's stated about his ultimate "Kill Em All" work, Ideon that the massacre filled ending occured because he didn't want to create a sequel to the show and wanted an ending that truly finished things once and for all.

I've got plenty of early 1980's books on Tomino and his works, but alas they're all in Japanese and I don't have time to translate them. One in particular has shots from 2001: A Space Odyssey making me wonder if that was a major inspiration for Gundam or his other works (there is a pretty obvious homage shot at the very end of Ideon).
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toysdream wrote:
Phantomexe87 wrote:No, no I mean the idea of Gundams, the machines themselves.
The use of giant robots was requested by the Clover toy company, Studio Nue provided the conceptual basis, and Kunio Okawara had already begun designing them before Tomino joined the production. So no, Tomino didn't exactly come up with the idea of the mobile suit. After all, he hates robot anime. :-)

-- Mark
Wasn't Dunbine a similar situation as well? (i.e. Tomino had a story that he would have rather told without giant robots, but the executives insisted so he worked them into the story.) If so it almost makes me wonder just how many of Tomino's stories actually had robots in them from the start.
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Quiddity wrote:
You know, I just realized that the interview is from 1993, right about the same time as Victory. Hmm, I see a correlation. I mean, it's safe to say that Tomino was at a kill 'em all high while working on Victory. It's also safe to say that his disdain for the genre shown through at times.

i'd say it was even more apparent in Turn A (as far as I hear. I've only seen a few of the first episodes.)
Although I think its pretty safe to say that by the time Turn A came out Tomino was all finished with his "Kill Em All" phase, which effectively ended with Victory Gundam.

And not to imply that anyone has said it, but hopefully we can avoid the speculation that Tomino's "Kill Em All" style occurred because he was depressed. In fact Tomino's stated about his ultimate "Kill Em All" work, Ideon that the massacre filled ending occured because he didn't want to create a sequel to the show and wanted an ending that truly finished things once and for all.
Right, I know exactly what you mean. What I meant with Turn A though was that it was a series that was much closer to what he wanted. In other words it was his pure vision, I guess. His dislike for robot anime shows in that Turn A is not like any other robot anime around.
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Saikuba wrote:Wasn't Dunbine a similar situation as well? (i.e. Tomino had a story that he would have rather told without giant robots, but the executives insisted so he worked them into the story.) If so it almost makes me wonder just how many of Tomino's stories actually had robots in them from the start.
Yep, and ironically, the more robot shows Tomino directed the more he tended to get hired exclusively to make robot shows. In some cases, like Gundam, he didn't originate the story but was brought on after the robot gimmick had already been decided; in others, like Dunbine, the robots were added later on. One way or another, he's ended up doing robot anime for about thirty years straight, with Garzey's Wing being virtually the only exception.

-- Mark
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