You know, I remember that some shows (including animes, I think, which is why I'm posting here) end with scenes like the heroes rushing towards an enemy army, or opposing commanders facing off. Sometimes the hero's love interest is mourning his passing when a door opens up behind her, she turns and looks... and then the credits play.
How do you feel when a show ends on a 'hanging' note like that (note, I do not consider the ending of EVA to be 'hanging', just incomprehensibly vague)? I know that an 'open' ending can be good if done correctly, but what do you guys think? Have you ever felt dissatisfied with such an ending? Should more animes end like that? Is there any anime that didn't end like that, but which you feel an 'open ending' would have better suited than the actual ending?
Post your opinions please.
Cliffhanger endings
[Minor spoilers for Zeta, Big-O and Lupin the III movies in this post.]
It all depends on the context for that ending.
For example, Zeta Gundam. After all that fighting, and all that action... and all those questions brought up by certain events... nothing. We see Fa and Camille heading back to the Argama, and the credits roll. No epilogue sequence, no mention of what happened to Axis or the Titans, no mention of what happened to... anything.
I do realize that ZZ premiered the very next week, but there's a big difference between 'a 2 part episode' and 'a completely different series that isn't yet licensed in the US yet.'
Big-O also had an ending that ticked me off. Roger's been shot in the arm, and three foreign Megadeuses are invading Paradigm City. So, he summons up the Big O, shouts out "Show time!"
...and then the series ends. I wouldn't have minded if Big-O II had premiered the next week, so to speak... but we had to wait a good three or four years for the conclusion to the episode to even be made. And I feel sorrier for the Japanese audience, who had to wait even longer!
On the other hand, Lupin the III almost always has open-ended endings - especially the movies. And unlike the previous endings I've mentioned before, most of the endings were coherent and resolved much of what we needed to know while still being open-ended.
The only one that pissed me off was the 'Island of the Assassins' movie. Lupin and Fujiko can't leave a certain Island without dying, for reasons explained in the movie. Yet the movie ends without an actual answer for this problem given! THAT really pissed me off, considering all the bullcrap surrounding the problem.
So yeah, it all depends upon the context - for me anyhow.
It all depends on the context for that ending.
For example, Zeta Gundam. After all that fighting, and all that action... and all those questions brought up by certain events... nothing. We see Fa and Camille heading back to the Argama, and the credits roll. No epilogue sequence, no mention of what happened to Axis or the Titans, no mention of what happened to... anything.
I do realize that ZZ premiered the very next week, but there's a big difference between 'a 2 part episode' and 'a completely different series that isn't yet licensed in the US yet.'
Big-O also had an ending that ticked me off. Roger's been shot in the arm, and three foreign Megadeuses are invading Paradigm City. So, he summons up the Big O, shouts out "Show time!"
...and then the series ends. I wouldn't have minded if Big-O II had premiered the next week, so to speak... but we had to wait a good three or four years for the conclusion to the episode to even be made. And I feel sorrier for the Japanese audience, who had to wait even longer!
On the other hand, Lupin the III almost always has open-ended endings - especially the movies. And unlike the previous endings I've mentioned before, most of the endings were coherent and resolved much of what we needed to know while still being open-ended.
The only one that pissed me off was the 'Island of the Assassins' movie. Lupin and Fujiko can't leave a certain Island without dying, for reasons explained in the movie. Yet the movie ends without an actual answer for this problem given! THAT really pissed me off, considering all the bullcrap surrounding the problem.
So yeah, it all depends upon the context - for me anyhow.
As newtypes3 said, it depends.
I liked 08th MS teams open ending with Shiro and Aina walking out of the cave and the rest of the team searching for them in vain. It added a little touch to see that Shiro had lost his leg. However, this was ruined by the 08th MS team movie (in my opinion) because it gave away more to the ending...which really wasn't necessary.
I liked 08th MS teams open ending with Shiro and Aina walking out of the cave and the rest of the team searching for them in vain. It added a little touch to see that Shiro had lost his leg. However, this was ruined by the 08th MS team movie (in my opinion) because it gave away more to the ending...which really wasn't necessary.
Correct. I mistook the epilogue for the movie. I've never actually watched the movie now that I think about it.NewtypeS3 wrote:The 08th Team movie? All it did was add a character in and add to the events of episodes 7 through 9.
Now, the epilogue episode (episode 12), I can understand - especially since the episode itself was rather lackluster.
One ending comes to mind quickly and that was the ending of Samurai Deeper Kyo anime. I'm still reading the manga so don't know where that will go (definitely better direction, even if Kamijyo can't seem to kill off his characters, dammit!). Another ending I kinda liked but hoped would definitely have seconds of is unpredictably my great favorite Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
I think EVA is indeed infamous for this, but people tned to disagree (as Recon 5 noted) whether it is really deep or just really annoyingly vague. It depends what your mood is when you watch it, I suppose.
I think EVA is indeed infamous for this, but people tned to disagree (as Recon 5 noted) whether it is really deep or just really annoyingly vague. It depends what your mood is when you watch it, I suppose.
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*They've often said that too.
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned Code Geass yet.
(SPOILER WARNING)
Suzaku shoots Zero's mask off and he and Karen see that he is Lelouch. Suzaku is about to shoot him, but Lelouch puts liquid Sakuradite on his chest which will explode when his heart stops. Lelouch and Suzaku point their guns at each other and a gunshot is heard and it ends there...
(SPOILER WARNING)
Suzaku shoots Zero's mask off and he and Karen see that he is Lelouch. Suzaku is about to shoot him, but Lelouch puts liquid Sakuradite on his chest which will explode when his heart stops. Lelouch and Suzaku point their guns at each other and a gunshot is heard and it ends there...
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Well, both of CG's "cliffhanger" endings left a pretty bitter taste. And it's not like they're really "cliffhangers" either. It's pretty much certain that neither Suzaku or Lelouch (or even Kallen) die. It's just poor, rushed directing. (Albeit for a very good reason).
Some cliffhangers are done well. Most are not.
Some cliffhangers are done well. Most are not.
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If its one thing I hate, its cliffhangers it made watching Gundam SEED almost unbearable on TV(Keep in mind, this was back when the only gundams I've watched were SEED and Wing) this was also back before I started getting any sort of income, so I was forced to watch animes on YTV's Friday Night block.
It was around episode 20 or so, and I remember that the episode after next was a recap and the week after? YTV didn't even bother showing it cause of some event, forgot what it was for...then when YTV showed it again the following Friday...it was a recap episode AGAIN.
It was around episode 20 or so, and I remember that the episode after next was a recap and the week after? YTV didn't even bother showing it cause of some event, forgot what it was for...then when YTV showed it again the following Friday...it was a recap episode AGAIN.
Tell me bats, what are you really scared of? Failure to save this cesspool of a city? Not finding the Commissioner in time? Me, in a thong?-Joker Arkham Asylum
My father was a wheel! THE FIRST WHEEL! And you know what he transformed into?! NOTHING! But he did it with honor!-Jefire, Transformers 2
My father was a wheel! THE FIRST WHEEL! And you know what he transformed into?! NOTHING! But he did it with honor!-Jefire, Transformers 2
Most people don't realise this (I could be making that up), but Gundam F91 the movie ended in a HUGE cliffhanger. I mean, The Seabook and Cecily are floating in space and the Crossbone Vanguard was VICTORIOUS?? Sure, the Iron Mask, the decidedly more evil aspect of the Vanguard was defeated, but what about the rest of the conflict? I blame that on F91's plot being a series script condensed into a movie. The movie is full of time jumps that make little sense.
As for Code Geass, I don't think the cliffhanger ending was poorly done at all. Both times they ended at points of high tension. that's what a cliffhanger is supposed to do. It leaves you wanting more, which will undoubtedly come. whether or not it was cliche'd is another story, but hey, doesn't detract from the awesomeness of the show.
On the other hand, Big O's first ending was rather inexcusable, and it's second ending didn't really add much closure (i.e. it didn't make sense).
As for Code Geass, I don't think the cliffhanger ending was poorly done at all. Both times they ended at points of high tension. that's what a cliffhanger is supposed to do. It leaves you wanting more, which will undoubtedly come. whether or not it was cliche'd is another story, but hey, doesn't detract from the awesomeness of the show.
On the other hand, Big O's first ending was rather inexcusable, and it's second ending didn't really add much closure (i.e. it didn't make sense).
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I don't think it's fair to throw in Zeta Gundam and Code Geass in here. The fact that Gundam ZZ hasn't been released here has nothing to do with the fact that Zeta was designed to have a direct sequel and ended as such. Besides, Zeta's main story with the Titans was resolved, and the Axis conflict's lack of resolution isn't that big of a deal given that ZZ takes it up. In the case of Code Geass, yes it had a cliffhanger, but the show is only halfway completed.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. I couldn't be more satisfied with how Code Geass "part" ended. A rushed resolution for those 'last' two episodes would have hurt the story more than anything. I mean, what was going on wasn't some minor event that could appropriately be summed up in two episodes. Too cut the tension of the moment, the big confrontation between the two lead protagonists short, the moment that the previous twenty four episodes had been building up to, would be nothing short of criminal. That's why a cliffhanger was the only viable option.Chris wrote:I don't think it's fair to throw in Zeta Gundam and Code Geass in here. The fact that Gundam ZZ hasn't been released here has nothing to do with the fact that Zeta was designed to have a direct sequel and ended as such. Besides, Zeta's main story with the Titans was resolved, and the Axis conflict's lack of resolution isn't that big of a deal given that ZZ takes it up. In the case of Code Geass, yes it had a cliffhanger, but the show is only halfway completed.
Zeta also wasn't a cliffhanger. Axis was still around, but like Chris said, the main conflict of Titans vs AEUG was resolved. Also, Zeta was really the story of Kamille running headlong into his tragic fate. Even if ZZ were not made, I think Zeta would have stood on its own.
Heh, by that logic, I guess I made an argument against my previous statement on F91, but still, that's different...
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I don't personally see how Geass even counts as a 'conclusion' right now.
Sure, the place we were left at for 23 and 25 suck more than a vacuum made out of black holes... but it wasn't technically an ending anyhow. It's just the creators being complete jerks and trying to keep interest in the show.
In the case of Zeta, though, it's still rather different. In Zeta, the Titans conflict had been resolved by Dakar (more or less), and a lot of the remaining conflicts with the Titans were mopping up the Space-Based remnants. By that point, the conflict with Axis (and the Titans remnants) and AEUG was a very major thing - and we didn't even get anything close to a resolution with it.
It's like if Gundam Wing ended with Oz/Romefeller taking over the Earth, and we had to wait for another show to answer that question.
Personally, I still don't mind so much, considering ZZ was meant to air right after Zeta...
...but when Bandai has yet to bring the show over to the US, it really leaves a major gap in the entire Zeta/ZZ storyline.
Sure, the place we were left at for 23 and 25 suck more than a vacuum made out of black holes... but it wasn't technically an ending anyhow. It's just the creators being complete jerks and trying to keep interest in the show.
In the case of Zeta, though, it's still rather different. In Zeta, the Titans conflict had been resolved by Dakar (more or less), and a lot of the remaining conflicts with the Titans were mopping up the Space-Based remnants. By that point, the conflict with Axis (and the Titans remnants) and AEUG was a very major thing - and we didn't even get anything close to a resolution with it.
It's like if Gundam Wing ended with Oz/Romefeller taking over the Earth, and we had to wait for another show to answer that question.
Personally, I still don't mind so much, considering ZZ was meant to air right after Zeta...
...but when Bandai has yet to bring the show over to the US, it really leaves a major gap in the entire Zeta/ZZ storyline.
And again, that still doesn't matter because the Axis storyline was deliberately left open for ZZ. The main focus of Zeta is the Titans, not Axis, and that's adequately concluded by episode 50. And if Gundam W ended that way it would be fine, presuming it was immediately followed by a Gundam WW. But since Gundam Wing is a self-contained series with a sequel removed by a year, it's not the same as Zeta and ZZ.NewtypeS3 wrote:In the case of Zeta, though, it's still rather different. In Zeta, the Titans conflict had been resolved by Dakar (more or less), and a lot of the remaining conflicts with the Titans were mopping up the Space-Based remnants. By that point, the conflict with Axis (and the Titans remnants) and AEUG was a very major thing - and we didn't even get anything close to a resolution with it.
It's like if Gundam Wing ended with Oz/Romefeller taking over the Earth, and we had to wait for another show to answer that question.
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I give the Titans a bit more credit than that. They were still gassing colonies and arbitrarily firing Gryps 2 in gratuitous displays of power late in the game. They may have lost a lot of their political clout, but the Titans were still a potent force up until the very last stretch of the series. Dakar was a blow to the Titans, but it wasn't as if they totally folded. The fleet was still around.In the case of Zeta, though, it's still rather different. In Zeta, the Titans conflict had been resolved by Dakar (more or less), and a lot of the remaining conflicts with the Titans were mopping up the Space-Based remnants.
I think Sirocco's coup is really what did them in, as, by that point, they had lost their backing, their cohesion, and their superweapon. By that point, you might be able to call them remnants.
Of course, with all that said, I have to agree that the ending left me feeling a bit cheated. At its core, Zeta was the story of an angry young man rebelling against a corrupt police state, but the Axis sub-plot is too big to deny. After all, in the movies, Tomino goes out of his way to resolve that dangling plot thread. If Axis was really so trivial, why would he have bothered pointing out that they're gone?
The Zeta series is just shy of a complete story, as far as I'm concerned.
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I think you're missing my point. It's not that they were trying to keep interest in the show, they HAD to. The events in those last few episodes were MAJOR and completely change the direction of the show. You can't just wrap that up all nice and clean like some people wanted. To make a rushed ending for the first part of the series would be a bad directorial decision. I think that's where the hate for 24, 25 is coming from. People were expecting a big wrap up to the plot thread left open in 23. That expectation was wrong.NewtypeS3 wrote:I don't personally see how Geass even counts as a 'conclusion' right now.
Sure, the place we were left at for 23 and 25 suck more than a vacuum made out of black holes... but it wasn't technically an ending anyhow. It's just the creators being complete jerks and trying to keep interest in the show.
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"Good Ending"?wing zero alpha wrote:I'm sure a lot of people would like to consider Zeta a complete story to itself, considering how ZZ turned out to be. That could also be why Tomino had Axis leave the Earthsphere in the movies as a sort of "Good Ending".
Its not a dating sim, Zero.
Honestly, the origional ending made sense in its own way. Unlike MSG, Zeta was about the fact that, for all its hope and future, mankind had a persistant darkness in it.
Hence the introduction of the first truly horrible newtypes (I.E. Sicoro, arguably Haman)
To completely defeat that in a series that was essentially a tragedy about the human condition would be innapropriate. IT represented the fact that one can fight the darkness, one can give people hope, but there will always be conflict. The fact it was the Axis could even be said to represent that one of the most harmful aspects of humanity is the inability to let go of the past.
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