Gundam 0080 on the ANN's "Buried Treasure" Feature

[jam!]

I believe I explained away those battles wza. Zeon special forces vs. Federation colony guards. Scarlet team or not, they just didn't know how to handle the MS.

That said....isn't this a little offtopic? I mean, we already established several posts ago that 0080 wasn't about the mecha battles or mecha at all. I suppose it does count for an overall analysis though.

You know another part of 0080 that sealed Al's trauma? When he saw Christina leaving and she asked him to tell Bernie goodbye for her. The poor guy had to hold back the tears as he told her that Bernie would be sad to see her go eventhough he knew it was her fault for killing Bernie. Even worse was that Christina would probably continue on through her years wondering whatever happened to Bernie and never know the truth. It's quite likely that at the same time she would never give serious thought to who the pilot of the Zaku II kai was.
Such characterisation is what made these characters so human within just 6 episodes. Wow....and yes, I'm fanboying shamelessly, lol.

[MrMarch]

Well, as you said and I implied, the 'Nazification' in 0080 is mostly in appearance and a few names...really doesn't impact the series or it's meaning in anyway. The Zaku II kai could've been modelled after George Washington and the Zeons likened to the American colonial army and it wouldn't have changed the main message of the anime. I don't think so at least.

This was pretty much my point a dozen posts and one on-topic thread ago, hehehe

[wing zero alpha]

Jammy, exactly when are you going to practice that vow you made a while ago that you wouldn't talk to me again? I'm curious.

I believe I explained away those battles wza. Zeon special forces vs. Federation colony guards. Scarlet team or not, they just didn't know how to handle the MS.

Those weren't special forces though, just regular Zeon forces, unless I either missed a crucial detail somewhere or somehow Cima's Marines got mixed in. And considering how far in the war we are, I think the Feds, even the ones as far back as Side 6, should be able to know how to use their MS beyond standing there and playing Stormtroopers.

Well, as you said and I implied, the 'Nazification' in 0080 is mostly in appearance and a few names...really doesn't impact the series or it's meaning in anyway. The Zaku II kai could've been modelled after George Washington and the Zeons likened to the American colonial army and it wouldn't have changed the main message of the anime. I don't think so at least.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the problem isn't with the message of the anime, the problem is in the characterization and depiction. I thought it was hard enough to make characters like the Cyclops Team and Von Helsing, who looks more fit to command the Bismarck than the Graf Zeppelin, be "good people doing their job for the war effort" when the organization they're in is anything except good. And while I know there's a certain appeal to drawing angles from taboo organizations, whether be it the Nazis or the Soviet Union or the modern day Chinese, it really didn't make the characters look any better now that they're painted as working for the next generation Axis Powers.

But once again I digress, I've said what I wanted to say in this topic. So unless anyone wants to keep on this, a la my problems with 0080, then I'll be happy to move on with the discussion. Didn't think so many people would be interested in my thoughts.

[jam!]

I never vowed that. I simply don't like having a back-and-forth with you because you're very annoying with how much you quote every part of someone's post and discredit or accept in a demeaning fashion what they said plus you want the last word always. If you wish to talk further on this, please private msg me because this is not the place.

By the way, the Cyclops Team was part of Zeon's special forces IIRC. Sure the Feds knew basics of MS control but that's why they were wiped out, the Zeons were just better.

A question though: Was the Alex intended to serve aboard the Gray Phantom with the Scarlet Team until it was transferred to Amuro?

[cyber_chorizo]

0080's good. The only downside to it was that it's very slow, and there's not much action. I find Wing more enjoyable, and has more substance.

[MrMarch]

A question though: Was the Alex intended to serve aboard the Gray Phantom with the Scarlet Team until it was transferred to Amuro?

I assumed the RX-78NT-1 Alex would be transported in the Gray Phantom to Amuro, but I'm not sure if it would be put into active service aboard the ship.

EDIT: Double-posting? Tsk tsk.

And as it stands, the first post was pretty useless anyway. If you think some post in here is going to start a flamewar, it kind of stands to reason that you shouldn't encourage it.

~ShadowCell

[wing zero alpha]

I never vowed that. I simply don't like having a back-and-forth with you because you're very annoying with how much you quote every part of someone's post and discredit or accept in a demeaning fashion what they said plus you want the last word always. If you wish to talk further on this, please private msg me because this is not the place.

Speaking from the opposite end of our quote wars, you're not exactly any better Jammy. But you're right, this isn't the place to discuss our mutual dislike, yet at the same time I don't think it's necessary to carry this line of conversation even through PM; just seems like an unnecessary headache. I'll drop it with this one quote straight from the Gundam UC anime thread:

WZA, from here on in I'll desist from conversing with you because somehow it always gets personal.

If you want to clarify that (as I imagine you will), then you can msg me yourself.

Anyway, back on topic. To tell the truth I only thought the Gray Phantom was there to reinforce the garrison at Side 6, I didn't think it would be for transporting purposes. Figured after the testing was done a Columbus transport would be dispatched to pick up the Alex and deliver it to the White Base.

[jam!]

I think it'd be ridiculous to heavily guard the Alex to the extent of even putting in new colony shutters and hiding its presence from even the colony itself and then to ship it to the White Base (which was constantly underattack) in a Columbus transport of all things.
Since Side 6 Libot colony was so carefree that the kids never knew for sure whether the Federation had MS then it's likely those MS came with the Gray Phantom after the Alex had arrived hence the ship wouldn't have been there since there'd be little need for a strong garrison in a neutral sector like Side 6.

[DeltasTaii]

The Side 6 battles were shown to be more lopsided than they really were, to be honest. You'll notice the Zeon actually lost both times, we just saw more of them for whatever reason (I'd say Bernie, but whatever). Besides which, I think 2 Gelgoog Jaegers and the pilots they'd have to had flying around any minor colony skirmish is going to end up in some major butt whuppage.

All that said, I wasn't a fan of it either. But it doesn't really affect the quality of the show in any way (and could arguably be considered a stylistic decision to show how the EFF's generic, conservative approach, and build up the Gundam), so I can forgive it from a critical, if not fan standpoint. At least the 2 or 3 GMs that did do any good were given at least as good of a showing as the GMs in MSG III skillwise.

[wing zero alpha]

And yet at the same time it's necessary, as a Columbus transport would have attracted far less attention from the Zeeks than a Pegasus carrier. For all the Zeon know (I know this is a stretch, but bare with me), this Columbus would have been shipping food supplies or other supplies out of Side 6 space. On the other hand, with the spy network in Side 6, it probably would have been better to use the Gray Phantom anyway, because word of the new Gundam type being transported out of Side 6 would have reached Zeon ears undoubtably.

[Aegis]

As far as the Cyclops Team outright dominating the Feds especially with the big blue K, I actually wasn't bothered so much by the GMs getting blown up so easily as much as the fact the action really wasn't as involved as I first remembered it. The Kampfer just kinda floated there in certain scenes and shot at the GMs, while said GMs just stood there and took the hits. It wasn't all that animated on either side, thus the whole thing looked even more effortless than it should've been.

The flat out destruction of the Feddie MS in itself was no real issue for me whatsoever since a) 0080 was just way too short to really be so noticeable compared to a 50 episode series, b) the character piloting the Kampfer does not fit the form of your typical anime character, be it the whiney teenager or the wise and courageous leader, and c) when it finally came time to actually be beaten, Misha died, stayed dead, and died from being shot into a block of cheese in a rather not so glorious way while certain main characters survived even after being inside an explosion, suffocating in the vacuum of space, falling from a rather tall height, and/or a combination of two of these disasters.

[flamingtroll]

And then there is the fact that they spend like an episode showing how much effort they were putting into mounting a surprise attack. And in the end Misha just took down a couple of MS in the end, with a specialized MS, speed, terrain, the element of surprise and the fact that they are fighting in an urban area, which would be a burden on the Feddies pilot. That is really nothing comparing to gunning down 50 ms per episodes heads on just by firing all the guns at once.