Wow. This is a lot to chew on, and puts things in a brand new light with the addition of details I hadn't remembered. Where to start...
toysdream wrote:As far as the relationship between Jerid and Scirocco, the animation doesn't give us much to go on. After Scirocco ditches Jerid on the moon, Captain Gady has him reinstated as part of the Alexandria crew. At this point both Gady and Jerid seem to share the same resentment of Scirocco, not to mention Scirocco's new favorite Yazan. After his adventures on Earth, Jerid then reappears as Jamitov's bodyguard and appears to spend the final episodes aboard the Dogosse Gier. While this establishes his closeness to Bask and Jamitov, it doesn't tell us anything about his feelings towards Scirocco.
Captain Gady, though, is another story. Although he initially dislikes Scirocco and Yazan, they seem to get on better in later episodes, and in episode 43 he and Yazan decide to abandon Bask's fleet altogether and join forces with Scirocco. (This is discussed in more detail in Tomino's novels.) These unlikely allies may be united by their ethical objections to Bask's tactics; Scirocco spoils the attempted colony drop on Granada, Yazan refuses to participate in a gas attack in episode 29, and Gady pretends that the Alexandria's engine problems prevent him from joining the gas attack in episode 42. You wouldn't think of Yazan as being particularly squeamish, but these three characters seem to share the same revulsion for Bask's dirty tricks.
So would Jerid fall in line behind his old comrade Gady? Hard to say. Jerid is still serving as Jamitov's bodyguard after Gady goes AWOL and joins forces with Scirocco, but once Jamitov and Bask are out of the picture, maybe he'd just go with the flow and join the winning team.
This gives a good deal to consider. But while Jerid went along several times with the separate atrocities, he never seemed to enjoy them. And since by the end he had apparently joined Scirocco's "winning team", apparently his participation in the past wasn't really held against him, wether by Scirocco and company or Jamitov.
It strikes me more and more that you would need a complete second "series" to trace an outcome of a Titan victory.
Immediately post-Gryps 2, the Titans would have to deal with a shaky legitimacy and any immediate post-Gryps alliances. Axis would make its move, one would assume, but who joins with them would be up in the air.
After things initially align, then the power struggles would start brewing. Hardliners might try to retake control of the Titans, a hypothetical Haman-Scirocco alliance would show its first cracks, and so on. The political machination phase, if you will.
And finally, the final outcomes of the power struggles and the clash between the sections. The final decision of whether the Titans, Axis, both, or neither rule the Earth Sphere would be decided.
A scene fit for a major work.
Personal loyalties are one thing, but there are also ideological issues to consider. Dean_the_Young wonders what Scirocco's agenda is, and I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Jamitov, too. Let's look at the goals of the major players.
Bask Om: Easy. A straight-up racist, Earth supremacist, and brute.
Simple and clean. But on the subject of hardliners, were there any other major hardliner Titans in either the novels or other media who at least tried to fit Bask's shoes?
Jamitov Hymem: Almost the complete opposite of what you'd expect. In episode 21, Scirocco tells Jerid and Mouar that Jamitov is actually trying to provoke an all-out war in order to destroy Earth's economy and purge the planet of its corrupt elites. Crazy as this sounds, Tomino's novels tell us it's true. Jamitov actually hates Earthnoids and believes that humanity has leave the Earth before it's completely destroyed, just as the AEUG does. The Titans and their Earth-supremacist agenda are just a way to exploit Earthnoid bigotry and lure them to their own destruction.
The problem, though, is that once you create a racist private army and place it under the command of a thug like Bask Om, you can't control the outcome. In the Zeta movies, there are a couple of scenes where Jamitov complains about the destruction that Bask is creating in space, and it's clear that he isn't really in full control of his own army. No matter how progressive Jamitov's goals may be, the means he chooses are guaranteed to produce the opposite effect.
You are right; that
is the opposite of what I had thought. And if it is right (and I'm sure that it is), it would even give backing to the idea of him transforming Jerid into a political player. Based on what you wrote below, Jamitov wants to both insure that humanity gets off earth, and that a strong figure (dictator) leads Earth straight. But face it, Jamitov is old.
In comes Jerid. Jerid, while he has his flaws, has a number of things that would make him an 'ideal' dictator successor for Jamitov. Jerid younger, has no qualms about enforcing his power, and is a strong believer in the virtue of might.
But, as opposed to Bask, Jerid also has some redeeming qualities. He isn't a bigot, either when dealing with the races or sexes (Jerid appears to think in terms of military and civilian instead), Jerid doesn't take joy in the acts of suppression (which would upset a unhappy populace), and even has hints of mercy (though those don't prevent him from carrying out what he feels needed to do). In fact, the worst part about Jerid being Jamitov's successor from Jamitov's point of view that I can think of is that Jerid doesn't care one way or another about leaving the Earth. Jamitov doesn't even need to fear that much about Jerid overthrowing him, because as Jamitov is old and Jerid young all Jerid needs is patience (which he has learned) to out last Jamitov and take power then.
An added bonus with raising Jerid up would that it would give Jamitov (as long as he lives) more influence over the Titans other than from Bask. A counter to Bask could be a plus in Jamitov's view.
Paptimus Scirocco: In Tomino's novels, the conversation of episode 21 continues a little further. Having established that Jamitov, Scirocco, and the AEUG all share the same basic goal - to get humanity off the planet and complete the migration to space - Scirocco explains that the difference is what happens next. The AEUG want to restore "absolute democracy," Jamitov plans to use this crisis to impose a military dictatorship, and Scirocco prefers the enlightened leadership of the true genius. As his Ayn Rand-esque rants in the final episodes show, Scirocco believes that the masses only hold back the geniuses who really get things done, and it seems likely that he'd try to impose some kind of Newtype dictatorship.
So where Jamitov wants a military dictatorship, Scirocco wants an enlightened dictator from a ruling caste of geniuses?
It seems then that Scirocco is a believer of the Great Man theory of history, though I'm not sure what qualifies as "genius" in Scirocco's book. Would a Stalin figure, who makes the world revolve around him, be considered a "genius"?
This also appears to be a clashing point between Scirocco and both Jerid and Haman. Both Jerid and Haman want supreme power for themselves (in fact, both want supreme power while backed by a supreme military); they aren't concerned so much about what comes next after themselves, other than that they wouldn't want the next ruler to overthrow them. While Scirocco could ally himself with one or the other (or both, radically) and maintain influence, either one would see Scirocco as "significant ally" but not "equal". Unless Scirocco can insure that he is clearly in the superior position, his dream of a society led by the geniuses may not last beyond the first generation.
Haman Karn: Like Jamitov, Haman doesn't really seem to believe in the ideals she supposedly represents. To her, Mineva is just a convenient figurehead to rally the support of Principality loyalists, and once her puppet Zabi princess is safely on the throne Haman will be able to build whatever kind of ideal society she likes. In the final episode of Zeta, she even tries to pitch Char on this idea, saying that if he joins her cause they'll have a blank check to reshape the world as they wish.
I believe I touched on my thoughts of her above. Is there any real indication of what kind of society she wants, other than that she would be the ultimate de facto authority? (Almost the same as Jerid, except that he wants to be the ultimate de facto and de jure authority as head of the supreme Titans.)
What's noteworthy here is that, with the possible exception of Bask Om, none of these people are interested in maintaining the status quo. Jamitov in particular wants to create a worldwide crisis, so that he can seize control. Insofar as Scirocco has similar goals, I don't think it would be in his interest to make nice with the Earth Federation, suppress the Axis forces, and earn his good citizenship badge. Since he wants to create a new world order, an alliance with Haman - no matter how unstable or dysfunctional - seems like his best bet to overthrow the established order and impose the tyranny of his genius.
-- Mark
I suppose the ultimate decider of Scirocco's decision would be his judgement; "Have things changed enough that I can make my vision a reality?"
If the answer is "yes", then I could see him joining Haman. Chaos would plunge across the Earth Sphere (and re-plunge when he and Haman fight) and he would lose his legendary control over the situation. However, if he and not Haman is able to rise up in the end, he would be in the best position possible to implement his vision. No other Titan rivals, no Haman, just himself.
If the answer is "no", then I see him continuing the fight against Axis. Not for the sake of the EF and for citizenship points, but to prolong the war so that the Earth Sphere reaches the point that he felt he could mold it into something acceptable. Federation support would be an initial and temporary thing for when the Titans are alone at Gryps 2, more lip service than anything else. I expect he and the Titans would arrange a more solid support base elsewhere (the newtype labs, for one), at which points the EF can do whatever it wants and no one would care.
The problem with this, though is that it has possibly too much control. If Axis is beaten too easily, not enough would change and only a Titan civil war could create the chaos Scirocco needs, and perhaps even that might backfire. Also, Scirocco would have to deal with a fractious Titans from the start, with little guarantee that he would emerge on top except for his own political manuverings.
I'm sorry this letter is so long, but I did not have time to make it shorter. -Mark Twain
Official Jerid Fanboy