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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:40 pm 
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I got a question about the Federation's Newtype research. I believe that the Federation started the research while the Titans took control of it. If that is true, then when did the Federation start said research? Four (Zeta Gundam) said that she was the fourth child born at the Institute and I think she was born before the OYW. Now, when did the Feddies start the research? It irks me that it was started before the OYW because Newtypes were seen as military potential during and after the OYW.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:19 pm 
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When Four said "born" she ment metaphorically, not literally. I imagine the Newtype research began after they saw the potential in Amuro Ray, as they went so far to build an entire suit for it in 0080, so I would say they unofficially started during the later months of the One Year War, but those institutions would not officially be founded until after.


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Yeah, they probably began looking at Newtype things late in the OYW but, obviously, didn't have all the resources, test subjects, equipment, etc to conduct proper research like the Zeon were able to.

Of course, after the OYW, when all the facilities, plans, etc were captured, they were able to quickly catch up. Of course, the Cyber Newtype thing was their idea, though after CCA, I don't think Cyber Newtypes are used anymore...

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:26 pm 
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HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Of course, the Cyber Newtype thing was their idea, though after CCA, I don't think Cyber Newtypes are used anymore...
Not by the Feds anyway. However Iron Mask was made into a Cyber-Newtype. When exactly this was done we don't know, but I would guess it was after Nadia ran off with Theo and took Cecily/Bera with them.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Crossbone Vanguard had an artificial newtype, technically, though that's debatable.

I imagine much like MS development, that after they defeated Zeon, the Federation "borrowed" a lot of their newtype research.


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:28 pm 
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Well, we know from the Ultimate Mark timeline that the Federation establish their Newtype labs in in April of 0082, basing their work (and machines) on things they captured at the end of the One Year War (Hell, the Augusta Newtype Lab has Act Zakus!). In Zeta, we see that the Federation still has control of a few of these labs, although the Titans have started a few of their own and/or taken control of some of the Federation ones.

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Of course, the Cyber Newtype thing was their idea, though after CCA, I don't think Cyber Newtypes are used anymore...


Pretty much, yeah. By that point in time, everyone had come to see the numerious problems that come from Cyber Newtypes and few people bothered with missing with them after that...

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:58 pm 
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Zeonic Glory wrote:
I got a question about the Federation's Newtype research. I believe that the Federation started the research while the Titans took control of it. If that is true, then when did the Federation start said research? Four (Zeta Gundam) said that she was the fourth child born at the Institute and I think she was born before the OYW.

She doesn't actually say that. In episode 19 of Zeta, she says to Kamille that she was "the fourth one at the facility," in other words the Murasame Institute's fourth test subject. Most of these test subjects are war orphans who were turned into Newtype research guinea pigs after the One Year War.

As for later uses of this enhancement technology, it actually continues throughout the U.C. era. Haman obtains the technology and uses it on Mashymre and Chara, Char uses it on Gyunei, Iron Mask uses it on himself, and the Zanscare Empire uses it on Katejina and Fuala in Victory Gundam. Pretty much all these people end up somewhat crazy, with the apparent exception of Gyunei, but then a lot of them were crazy to start with.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:02 am 
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Oh, I had heard rumors and such about Katejina and Fuala, but was it ever explicitly stated they were "enhanced"? That would certainly explain things a lot better, although yet again I wish they would explain this kind of thing in-show.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:03 am 
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Not everybody who's insane is an artificial Newtype, though.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:12 am 
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Zetsu wrote:
Oh, I had heard rumors and such about Katejina and Fuala, but was it ever explicitly stated they were "enhanced"? That would certainly explain things a lot better, although yet again I wish they would explain this kind of thing in-show.

It's explained in Tomino's novels (where we even get a scene of Chronocle taking Katejina to an enhancement lab in one of the lunar cities), but I don't think it was ever mentioned in the animation.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:15 am 
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Speaking of cyber newtypes, what ever happened to Gates Capa?

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:52 am 
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Gates Cappa was rendered catatonic due to a psychic backlash triggered by Rosamia's death.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:34 am 
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I got a question to add on to the original: alright, most of the Newtype Labs were started by the Federation either during the later months of the OYW or somewhere between the OYW and Gryps War. The Gryps Lab and (I think) Kilimanjaro Lab, however, were founded by the Titans, though, right? Is it known when those were founded? Were they not created until the Gryps War (as I've always presumed) or were they founded sometime between the OYW and Gryps War as well?

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:00 am 
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I would guess it wasn't too long after 0083 (since they do pass the mountain itself early in the series)...probably 0084-85 about.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:27 am 
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Btw, what's the story behind Proto Zero, aka Zero Murasame, from Gihren's Greed? I can't run my G-Gen F.I.F and all I remember was that he piloted the prototype Mk II...

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:34 pm 
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toysdream wrote:
As for later uses of this enhancement technology, it actually continues throughout the U.C. era. Haman obtains the technology and uses it on Mashymre and Chara, Char uses it on Gyunei, Iron Mask uses it on himself, and the Zanscare Empire uses it on Katejina and Fuala in Victory Gundam. Pretty much all these people end up somewhat crazy, with the apparent exception of Gyunei, but then a lot of them were crazy to start with.

I've always been a bit curious about this. It seems to me that, the later you get in UC, the less crazy cyber Newtypes are (though this may not be the case in Victory; I haven't seen it). Four and Rosamia are pretty whacko, while Mashymre is relatively tame (Chara's still a certified whack job, though...), Gyunei is fairly normal (if a bit paranoid about Char), and Iron Mask's strangeness comes from before he was enhanced, not as a result of it. Is this meant to show some kind of maturation of the enhancement process? Are the technology and techniques getting better and better as UC goes on, resulting in more stable cyber Newtypes, or is it more a result of the people they're choosing to enhance, and I'm just trying to make a connection that's not actually there?

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:40 pm 
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Quote:
I've always been a bit curious about this. It seems to me that, the later you get in UC, the less crazy cyber Newtypes are (though this may not be the case in Victory; I haven't seen it).


One Name: Katejina Loss. After her enchanacement she turns into the most crazy and disturbed cyber-newtype of all times (tough I still think she did deserved to die, I have hots for her >_> and I don't liked how she ended. WHY TOMINO, WHY DID YOU FAILED TO KILL HER?)

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:
I've always been a bit curious about this. It seems to me that, the later you get in UC, the less crazy cyber Newtypes are (though this may not be the case in Victory; I haven't seen it). [. . .] Is this meant to show some kind of maturation of the enhancement process? Are the technology and techniques getting better and better as UC goes on, resulting in more stable cyber Newtypes, or is it more a result of the people they're choosing to enhance, and I'm just trying to make a connection that's not actually there?


I believe that it is the personalities of the people whom they choose. Four Murasame and Rosamia were probably already mentally unstable to begin with, given what the technology at the time did to them (pretty much "reformatted" their brains, and then created artificial memories for them both to live by -- Four, if you remember, was constantly taunted by the Titans and the personnel at the lab that if she complied, she would get her real memories back), and more than likely their backgrounds / maturity level.

Gyunei consented to becoming an artificial (cyber) Newtype. Therefore, although I am no scientist and this is something that doesn't exist in reality, I am inclined to believe that he would not have had the fear (besides the normal apprehension) and freak-out (for lack of a better term) reaction that many artifically enhanced Newtypes did before him. If anything - enhancement did change Gyunei - it made him cockier - but for people who probably did not willingly consent to enhancement, the fear/shock/horror produced a chemical reaction in their minds that probably skewed the process.

That probably makes no sense and isn't a very logical explanation, but that's my take on it. Feel free to dissect it :)

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Speaking of CCA I was under the impression that Quess was also cybernetically enhanced. That she was born a newtype, but Char enhanced her even further.

In a way the Cyber newtypes were some of the creepiest parts of Gundam, when you really think about it. When you really think about what those labs did, it can be really creepy. It's even creepier for me, as I pretty much believe DOME's theory (though he wasn't from UC I still think it applies there) that Newtypes weren't really evolutions of humanity, but an accidental type of mutation.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:56 pm 
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Maniaxe wrote:
Speaking of CCA I was under the impression that Quess was also cybernetically enhanced. That she was born a newtype, but Char enhanced her even further.


Quess was born a Newtype. She wasn't enhanced when she joined up with Neo-Zeon, as far as I know.

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