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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:59 pm 
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actually MkII and Zeta were heavily damaged when Ele and Roux challenged the Quin mantha in the second to last ep.


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:41 pm 
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I know they were heavily damaged, but there is no shot of them actually being destroyed by anything.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:06 am 
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Zeonic Glory wrote:
Actually, the Hyaku Shiki, Gundam Mk. II, and Zeta Gundam were destroyed towards the end of ZZ Gundam. (I haven't seen it yet, I read the MAHQ Review). The odds of it being recovered after that are pretty slim...

As for MS salvaging, thats one of the things the CE Junk Techs do. That is the coolest job. You can just find parts and refit/make original units with them...

IIRC...
(1)the Hyaku Shiki that was floating around at the end of Z was NOT salvaged, and the one in ZZ is a different unit.
(2)ZZ's Hyaku Shiki survived the war----only the MK-II and Z were destroyed in the battle against Quin Mantha.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:27 am 
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Oruma wrote:
(1)the Hyaku Shiki that was floating around at the end of Z was NOT salvaged, and the one in ZZ is a different unit.


Source? The way I've always heard it is that the Hyaku Shiki we see in ZZ is merely Quattro's unit rebuilt. I've never heard of the one in ZZ being a new unit...

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:34 am 
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i didnt think there was more than one hyaku shiki in the first place. not counting msv of course

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:06 pm 
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Oruma wrote:
IIRC...
(1)the Hyaku Shiki that was floating around at the end of Z was NOT salvaged, and the one in ZZ is a different unit.
(2)ZZ's Hyaku Shiki survived the war----only the MK-II and Z were destroyed in the battle against Quin Mantha.


I've never seen a source indicate that the ZZ Shiki was a different unit, and it wouldn't make sense anyway. Why would the AEUG build a new unit of an MS that was horribly outdated by the end of 0087, let alone into 0088 when a bunch of new designs are pouring out. Really, aside from repairs to the torso, the Shiki just needed new arms and legs. There's no reason to believe it's any different from how the Mark II was salvaged and repaired.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:41 pm 
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I didn't think the Hyaku Shiki was outdated in the Gryps War; I mean sure, it wasn't up to par with the Qubeley and The O, but those were one shot units compared to the hundreds of Hizacks, Marasais and Gazas that the Shiki either outperformed or was on equal terms with. In fact I didn't think it was that outmatched until the Neo Zeon War when Axis was rolling out spammer mobile suits in large quantities.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:49 pm 
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There was only a gap of at least a few months between the end of the Gryps
war and the start of the first Neo Zeon war so the Hyaku Shiki couldn't be
that far behind the existing level of technology of the period. The O and the
Quebeley were one-off special use machines configured for newtypes so they would naturally have better performance the Hyaku Shiki.

EDIT: I guess I was a little too generous in my estimates of time.

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Last edited by Hyakushiki on Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Hyakushiki wrote:
There was only a gap of at least a few months between the end of the Gryps
war and the start of the first Neo Zeon war...


A few months? I think the gap is more reasonably measured in hours.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:08 pm 
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Didn't they overlap? By quite a margin, I think. That's why the end of Zeta was a big ol' 3-way free-for-all.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:31 pm 
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Chris wrote:
I've never seen a source indicate that the ZZ Shiki was a different unit, and it wouldn't make sense anyway.

The dialogue in the episode itself indicates that it's a newly manufactured unit. The Japanese publications and kit manuals tend to split fifty-fifty on whether it's a new "unit two," or just the original machine repaired, but I'd go with the animation dialogue here. Not to mention that, if it had been salvaged from the final battle, it probably would have been returned to the Argama along with the Gundam Mark II rather than being shipped over from Granada several episodes later.

As to why they'd go to the trouble of building a whole new Hyaku Shiki, it's hard to think of a good reason beyond nostalgia and the real-world motivations of the writers. Then again, I'm not sure why they keep rolling out new Methuss units either.

Oh, and finally, the official timeline sets the gap between Zeta episode 50 and ZZ episode 2 (when the story actually begins) as eight days. That seems like an awful long time for Yazan to be drifting through space in his escape pod, but maybe he has some emergency rations tucked under his seat.

-- Mark


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:35 pm 
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Agreed...you'd think that if they were going to build a completely new one, they would improve it (like make the Hyaku Shiki Kai from Z-MSV or something).

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Parts? Presumably both Anaheim and the Argama have whole piles of Hyaku Shiki bits lying around, which'd be way cheaper and easier to use than having to throw out all the old stuff, and produce/buy fancy new hardware.

At the very least, it beats throwing an extra Nemo their way if there's not a humongous cost discrepancy.


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:39 pm 
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toysdream wrote:
The dialogue in the episode itself indicates that it's a newly manufactured unit. The Japanese publications and kit manuals tend to split fifty-fifty on whether it's a new "unit two," or just the original machine repaired, but I'd go with the animation dialogue here. Not to mention that, if it had been salvaged from the final battle, it probably would have been returned to the Argama along with the Gundam Mark II rather than being shipped over from Granada several episodes later.

As to why they'd go to the trouble of building a whole new Hyaku Shiki, it's hard to think of a good reason beyond nostalgia and the real-world motivations of the writers. Then again, I'm not sure why they keep rolling out new Methuss units either.


I wonder if the publications and kit manuals are trying to fix a mistake in the anime. If the ZZ Shiki is a new unit, it creates several problematic questions:

-Why bother building a new Shiki at all, instead of a new mobile suit design?
-Similarly, if it's a new unit, why hasn't it been upgraded to be up-to-date with ZZ-era suits? (although the same charge can be made if it's just Char's repaired unit).
-When was this unit produced? If it was during the Gryps War, why didn't appear in Zeta as either a reserve unit or assigned to a pilot like Apolly?
-Why does it take so long to show up in ZZ? The Shiki appears in about episode 22, placing it four months after the start of the series. The Argama was in desparate need of new suits after Fa took off with the last Methuss. In the meantime they get the ZZ and Mk II delivered to them, so if there was another Shiki, why not deliver it earlier.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:52 pm 
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Chris wrote:
-When was this unit produced? If it was during the Gryps War, why didn't appear in Zeta as either a reserve unit or assigned to a pilot like Apolly?


I assume it was a matter of priority, Char had just lost his Rick Dias and
arguably being the best pilot on the Argama he could have his pick of
machines.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:56 pm 
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Hyakushiki wrote:
I assume it was a matter of priority, Char had just lost his Rick Dias and arguably being the best pilot on the Argama he could have his pick of machines.


You're not understanding what I'm saying. I said if a SECOND Shiki existed during Zeta, why wasn't it on the Argama? I'm not talking about when Char lost the Rick Dias.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:27 pm 
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Chris wrote:
-Why does it take so long to show up in ZZ? The Shiki appears in about episode 22, placing it four months after the start of the series.

This particular one can't really be blamed on the TV series writers. The official chronology for ZZ, which was created a few years later by plugging the episode air dates directly into the U.C. timeline, is completely nonsensical and bears no relation to what we see onscreen.

In the animation the Argama spends a few days at Shangri-la, docks with La Vie En Rose just long enough to receive a hyper mega particle cannon refit (and receive the repaired Gundam Mark II), makes a quick sortie against Axis, and then returns to Granada to resupply. Since the Argama has to leave Granada in a hurry, the Hyaku Shiki is delivered by shuttle as it leaves lunar orbit. All of that should take no more than a few weeks, and in the meantime the Argama has received a powerful new Gundam and Mega Rider, a new set of cannons, and the patched-up Gundam Mark II. Given the current state of the overall AEUG, that's actually pretty generous.

Quote:
In the meantime they get the ZZ and Mk II delivered to them, so if there was another Shiki, why not deliver it earlier.

The ZZ was already standing by at La Vie En Rose around the time the Gryps Conflict ended, and the Mark II seems to have been retrieved and repaired by La Vie En Rose, since it first appears after the ship docks with the Argama. The Argama doesn't get its first shipment from Granada until episode 16, when the Mega Rider arrives, and the Hyaku Shiki shows up just six episodes later. That may mean that Anaheim was still finishing up a second Hyaku Shiki unit that they built for God-knows-what-reason, or perhaps that the spare unit was still being dug out of mothballs.

-- Mark


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:43 pm 
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i thought that the Shiki in ZZ was Char's rebuilt, but i could have misunderstood the conversation between Ele and Roux.

Roux says that it was piloted by Quattro or something like that of course i could be wrong. My Japanese isn't that great. But from the way she said it i thought she mean that it was salvaged.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:22 am 
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Crusader wrote:
i thought that the Shiki in ZZ was Char's rebuilt, but i could have misunderstood the conversation between Ele and Roux.

Roux says that it was piloted by Quattro or something like that of course i could be wrong. My Japanese isn't that great. But from the way she said it i thought she mean that it was salvaged.

When she sees the Hyaku Shiki aboard the Argama, Roux comments that "It looks like there wasn't a model change." The term "model change" usually means an upgrade or new version, so Roux is expressing mild surprise that this Hyaku Shiki is still the same version as the previous one. I don't think this would be surprising if it were actually the same machine.

-- Mark


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