Zen Gundam

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Post by G-Slayer » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:23 pm

We all know that the basic general message of the Gundam shows is that war is hell. But has anyone come across another theme in Gundam that actually makes sense? Take Gundam Evolve 7, for example. In it Dr. J says that the human mind suffers from two bad habits. The first is passing down the idea of revenge through the generations, and from what we've seen in the outside world and in our everyday lives, that is true. The second bad habit is classifying people as groups instead of individuals, and that's true too. People are classified into groups all the time; by race, gender, age, etc. So are there any other themes to Gundam that you think make sense?

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Post by Hyakushiki » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:33 pm

That you can solve any social problem by dropping a colony.
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Post by Cardi Doorl » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:26 pm

You often see the theme of an older generation losing its way at the expense of the younger generation, which must then rise up to set things right.
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Post by prinnyetna » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:34 am

war changes the induvidual's mind.

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Post by Haros_Pet_Kat » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:07 am

1. Age has no bearing on maturity. If you so much as second guess your superior officer, you will be too preoccupied with your selfish thoughts to see the brightslap coming.

2. Mobile suits are easy to pilot. Survival is not.

3. *reads fortune cookie* An enemy you meet, may become a friend tomorrow.

4. If you fall in love, watching your loved one die becomes good karma for the future.

5. Just admit it. You are a CHAR.

6. He came to laugh at you.

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Post by Dunpeal » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:34 am

1. Don't fight teens, you're gonna lose.

2. Don't build your own suits, steal them instead.

3. When the war is over, don't rejoice. The next one will start soon, so be prepared.

4. Get out of the Ball.

5. Don't trust a blond guy with a sunglasses.

6. Avoid masked men.

7. Buy a Haro.

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Post by codename:v » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:11 pm

Refused to kill, for the sake of innocent lives? Or you just don't want to get your hands dirty?

When you think you're tough, you're just as fragile as you're now.

Wars always inevitable when there's a population boom.

Colony drops, humanity's self-mutilation.

That EFSF is stingy while Zeon is spendthrift.

Newtypes are mostly psycho because they've got too much on their heads.

You cheated on your girlfriend, next day she squashed you with a MS.

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Post by Vanishing Meteor » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:33 pm

wow! some of the replies made me laugh real hard here...hehehe..
:lol:
anyways back to topic...

G Gundam didn't focus too much on war..but instead they settled their disputes on a Gundam Tournament. i know it sounds silly if we applied G Gundam's Tournament to Zeta Gundam (ex. Zeta Gundam Vs. The O) and imagine Kamiru Bidan or even Quattro wearing that "suit"..hehehe...

and actually you dont drop a colony to solve a social problem...you drop plenty of them...

gas the inhabitants, nuke them, or whatever, sooner or later we're going to see Nuclear Missiles replaced with Antimatter Missiles (perfect for destroying a whole fleet/colony with one shot)

and yes, we classify people as a group..thats why there's racism almost in every part of the world, it is even applied on GS/GSD, the naturals vs coordinators kind of war...

well all i can say is...

War can destroy lives...period.. :wink:
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Post by Cardi Doorl » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:37 pm

Vanishing Meteor wrote:and actually you dont drop a colony to solve a social problem...you drop plenty of them...
Ah, that's certainly a theme you see throughout Gundam. Perhaps it's better stated that one person (or group of persons) does not have the right to determine what kind of people deserves to live and what kind deserves to die.

Or that resorting to criminal methods can turn a once-noble cause into an evil one. After all, Zeon once had the sympathy of the citizens of the other colonies in their fight to break them from Federal control, and the Titans once had the support of the Earth Federation, but in both cases criminal methods caused said factions to lose favor as they were clearly no longer guardians of their stated cause.
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Post by ORegan » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:43 pm

i think the main "secret" theme is that animal's fight. humans are nothing more then smarter animals. and when groups of them get together, and there is another group of them, they fight with whatever they got. its an instinct to fight, not a choice.
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Post by Wingnut » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:45 pm

Cardi Doorl wrote:
Vanishing Meteor wrote:and actually you dont drop a colony to solve a social problem...you drop plenty of them...
Ah, that's certainly a theme you see throughout Gundam. Perhaps it's better stated that one person (or group of persons) does not have the right to determine what kind of people deserves to live and what kind deserves to die.

Or that resorting to criminal methods can turn a once-noble cause into an evil one. After all, Zeon once had the sympathy of the citizens of the other colonies in their fight to break them from Federal control, and the Titans once had the support of the Earth Federation, but in both cases criminal methods caused said factions to lose favor as they were clearly no longer guardians of their stated cause.
You can say the same thing about Meitzer's Cosmo Babylonia before Iron Mask and a few others royally fracked up the ideal he envisioned. They had a legitimate gripe against the EFF brass and how they were running things, but Carozzo and his lackeys used it as an excuse to try and commit genocide, thus sending Cosmo Babylonia into a tailspin from which it would not recover.
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Post by Cardi Doorl » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:51 pm

Somehow I failed to notice the "you drop plenty of them" clause VM added to the end it it there... :P

But yeah, the Crossbones are certainly another good example of what I was talking about. Char during CCA is practically the epitome as well.

You see it in other universes too, like Patrick Zala in CE turning the PLANTs' defensive war into a tool for realizing his genocidal vision. Then you've got FC, wherein Master Asia is trying to heal Earth, but wants to do so by killing everyone off. Really, you can find this theme, in some form, just about everywhere in Gundam.
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Post by Sabersonic » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:22 am

Surprised that no one mentioned that ecological damage thing, course that's probably because of how rarely it's mentioned.

I think two good examples would be Quatro/Char/Casval/WTFever's speech that mentioned the desertification near Dakar, and the factoid about the number of whale corpses due to the ocean being too polluted.
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Post by attonbitus » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:19 am

The more praise you receive the more likely you're being set up to fall :P

If you're not good at something (ie piloting a MS) brood a lot your skills will increase 100x.

People are people so why should it be that you and I get along so awfully (/ducks thrown objects :D)

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Post by Magnus » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:13 am

How about the theme that change only comes about when people are willing to experience new things and immerse themselves outside of the norm?

I think this is shown in the evolution of (natural, not test tube) Newtypes on the backdrop of sudden war out in space.

On a related note, the series suggest that when this evolution occurs it is for the purpose of becoming something more, something better. To rise above things like war and hatred. To use the new abilities toward the purpose for which they were given. However, we know what happens when Newtypes use their psychic abilities (more specifically empathy) for war. *listens to Kamille's brain pop*

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Post by ORegan » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:38 pm

new types exist only for war. and newtypes are always 1st in line to get the cool suits
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Post by Haros_Pet_Kat » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:56 pm

Once the Big Zam is mass produced, we'll crush the Federation in no time.

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Post by Wingnut » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:13 pm

Haros_Pet_Kat wrote:Once the Big Zam is mass produced, we'll crush the Federation in no time.
I've heard variations that one so much on 4chan it makes me sick.

Besides, we already have a MP Big Zam model.
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Post by Haros_Pet_Kat » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:17 pm

I meant for that to be a Zen-like saying for this thread, but sorry.

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Post by Hyakushiki » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:43 pm

The attractiveness of the girl is directly proportional to her lack of sanity.
Don't send a coordinator to do a newtype's job!

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