Magical Girls

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Henyo
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Re: Magical Girls

will get to watching Vivid!
at the moment i'm still trying to finish Yes! PreCUre 5! Go Go!
speaking of Precure? what are your thoughts on Go! Princess PreCure? i am certainly liking as much as i enjoyed Doki Doki. Kirara is the best among the three!

for other MG news, the cast for the YuYuYu has been announced!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... ast/.86699

Four of them have played Atelier Characters! Dayumn. Its Wilbell's(AKA Homura) partner who got Togo-san. 8)
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Lord Dearche
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Re: Magical Girls

Raikoh wrote:Vivid's started to air, but you'll need to do some digging to find subs (that seem to use some inconsistent naming conventions i.e. "Lio", "Velka",- not that that's much of a problem, since Nanoha has had issues with names from day one.)

Some things I've noticed:
-Animation is kind of behind the par, especially for a first episode. Colors look kind of flat, character models look weird in a lot of shots, and the OP is nothing special by any definition, which kinda raises some red flags. The transformation sequence was nearly perfect, though, so maybe they're just conserving their budget for the action scenes? Either that or they're following the tradition that televised Nanoha has low animation budget.
-For some reason Nanoha now has purple eyes instead of blue? It wouldn't be so big an issue but now the eye colors are VERY noticeable and I'm used to Nanoha looking a certain way.
-I don't know how many voice actresses changed, but I noticed right away that Ginga swapped over to Hayami Saori and I feel like Carim sounds different.
-I'm pretty stunned at Mizuhasi's range. She's now played three versions of the same character and each one sounds fitting for Vivio's age. Not to mention how I still find it hard to believe she also voices Yuuno. Kudos.
-Nove a best.
-New ED is great.

All in all, I'm not huge on Vivid (though it's still a better choice than Force for a new anime) and the animation at the moment is a little worrying, but I'm just glad that Nanoha is even getting another anime after so long.
The difference in art style and animation is fully intentional. It's being done by a different studio, not 7Arcs. Part of the reason for the change in character designsn and art style is because they wanted to give the show a feel that was different from the main TV series/movies. Vivid is pretty light hearted and comical compared to the other entries in the series that often like to take itself too seriously and force the drama on.

Overall I enjoy it because it's a nice change of pace, and I'd rather have Vivid than the failure that was StrikerS. Thank god even 7Arcs agreed and is making the next movie not having anything to do with StrikerS.

But overall, Innocent should have gotten the anime, or even the PSP AU. Because Materials master race > over sexualized Vivid pandering.
Henyo
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Re: Magical Girls

so that's why the animation looks different. i thought 7arcs blew their budget on Dog Days 3(surprised that it got a third one really.) it was on the same level as a low budget PreCure episode.
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Lord Dearche
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Re: Magical Girls

Dog Days has actually been doing alright for the most part. Enough to warrant more seasons. The end of Season 1 felt a bit forced on some people, but Season 2 was well received because it decided to stick with it's more comical tone rather than force a sudden plot twist and sersious story. Have't watched Season 3 yet so no clue how they handled that. Though I've heard fan reviews were generally positive.

Though as to 7arcs, their big project currently is the third movie they announced at the previous Lyrical Party back when the BD for 2nd A's came out. So far we still don't know anything about it other than it's taking place after A's and will not be StreikerS related. There's rumors going around that it might possibly be either about the events and expand upon where Nanoha was almost killed after A's, or invlove the 3 Materials and Yuri/The reason why the Book of Darkness went berserk to begin with.

(The PSP games confirmed it was because it tried to absorb the supperior Tomb of the purple sky but couldn't handle it)
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Destiny_Gundam
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Re: Magical Girls

Lord Dearche wrote:the failure that was StrikerS. Thank god even 7Arcs agreed
Oh please. That's why there was a sequel sound stage that only had StrikerS characters, why the 2 sequel manga prominently features StrikerS characters, and why StrikerS characters were put into Innocent, right?

Just because the next movie is about something else doesn't mean anything. The movie after that could be the StrikerS one.
Henyo wrote:i thought 7arcs blew their budget on Dog Days 3(surprised that it got a third one really.)
I'm not. Dog Days is a fun show about having fun.
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Henyo
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Re: Magical Girls

i don't have much of a probelm with Strikers. i enjoyed rainbows are straighter than Subaru. there's also Teana being a gunslinger.

i dropped Dog days II just before the final couple of episodes..can't recall why exactly...i did enjoy Adell. too bad Wakamoto wasn't used as much in season 3.

back to MGs, did you guys managed to Finish Binan Koukou? i did. and quite liked it. it betrayed my expectations. also, their upgrade forms look better than Happiness Charge's Innocent Forms.(those lipsticks hurt my eyes.) the name is hilarious too. :lol:
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Lord Dearche
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Re: Magical Girls

That was one of the main problems that a large portion of the fanbase had with StrikerS. Subaru and Teana. Not so much with the characters or that they were bad themselves in any way, but that they were the ONLY characters they really developed.

They introduced some 30 new characters, a 10 year time skip, taking place in a new world, and it's now a more military themed show. And instead of trying to expand and spend more indepth time with all of that, those 2 took roughly 80-90% of the screen time and character development. Caro and Erio only got a few moments and flash backs every now and then, and Signum, Shamal, etc were pretty much gone for most of the series aside from a cafeteria scene and maybe a battle or two.

Not to mention they wasted like the first half on a training arc, which is the worst thing any anime can ever do, ever. It had many good ideas and concepts, but StrikerS just wasn't planned out or thought out well compared to A's, despite that it had double the air time. Also the QUALITY. Dear god the terrible animation was so bad it was hilarious. XD

Albeit, overall It might be better then the original season. The original season was alright, but,it only had maybe 3-5 episodes that actually mattered much. The rest just felt like it was random and dragging on and on. TO the point where the first few times I tried to marathon it I literally fell asleep.
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Lord Dearche
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Re: Magical Girls

Okay I'm officially mad at Vivid now simply because it was animated over the supperior Innocent.

Innocenet now confirmed for greatest of the Lyricals, due to it has the 3 best miracles of the Lyricals.

http://i.imgur.com/FLkMa16.jpg
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Raikoh
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Re: Magical Girls

I'd have to disagree with you about StrikerS. Honestly, it felt more like it was the first time Nanoha was actually the real main character of the show since she actually has the most personal investment in the conflict. I'm not sure which I prefer between StrikerS and S1 Nanoha, I just know that both of them aren't nearly as good as A's.

As for Innocent? It's even more of a spinoff involving card battles - like, literal card battles. From what I can tell, they have no rules like Pre-Battle City Yu-Gi-Oh or something. Really it's hard to tell since I haven't gotten around to reading it (not helped by the fact that it's barely gotten translated at all). If they had to pick one of the calm, soft, battle-focused fun series to get adapted, they'd of course pick the one that has more content and is more popular (I hear Vivid is quite successful in Japan).

I also doubt that the movie would involve stuff from the PSP games, since they're rather non-canon. They'd need to go through leap through some hoops to get it without contradicting stuff established in A's. But I guess it would be easier to shoehorn into the canon than most of the Dragon Ball movies.

Oh, yeah, Hecure. I fell behind on it but finished it up just a few days back. That finale was absolutely absurd and I quite enjoyed it.
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Vent Noir
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Re: Magical Girls

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Lord Dearche
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Re: Magical Girls

Actually pretty much everything is canon. From the TV series, to the PSP games stories, to the Mangas, and especially the movies and their related content. Staff/developer comments from over the years have pretty much led to the consensus that the entire Nanoha franchise exists as one single canon, via multiple universes. (Even including the original source, Triangle Heart series as it's own universe.)

Pretty much exactly like SRW does it, which shouldn't be a surprise because 90% of Nanoha's story, gimmicks, designs, etc are all taken from SRW to begin with. There was even a GoD x 2nd A's sound drama based on the Materials 2 years post Gears of Destiny meeting Nanoha and Fate again. Only they expanded that they weren't the same from the Gears timeline but the ones from whatever Alternate timeline/universe the movie takes place in. Randomly it also confirmed that all the major stuff Nanoha did in the movie wasn't just the movie being flashy since a later track confirmed that Movie Nanoha without Raising Heart > Stern. Despite that Stern = Nanoha from the TV series/Game in terms of power, plus she has a 2 year advantage now.

Another later drama cd had them linking to the StrikerS Era from the PSP games. And overall, it actually wouldn't be that hard to incorporate the GoD plot lines into the original TV series since dates can be moved around and there's no direct time frame for anything. Plus Dearche locks everyone's memories of the events since she flat out says it'd cause future events to diverge from what they should have been. (Which comes up in said StrikerS x Materials Drama.)

As to Innocent, the point of it is to be a fun series. That's literally what the creators said they wanted to do. A show where anyone can do anything, and it's not just limited to Nahoha and Fate being mary sues. But also all the others. Especially Arisa and Suzuka, real Reinforce, Precisa and Alicia Testarosa Vita, and many of the other neglected characters. It has nothing to do with the other series, their plot lines, or forced angsty drama. Just pure fun and comedy with a light hearted plot.

They've even taken precautions in the earlier chapters. Since they didn't want it to quickly turn into just Nano x Fate, Fate just comically seems to always get sidelined for some reason or another to give all the other characters their fair share in the spot light. Nanoha is still the main character obviously, but she's not the sole focus. And eventually they even started incorporating the rest of the characters. Such as the Numbers from StrikerS. Only now just living a happier life. Albeit a lot younger. Nove and Sette have actually pretty much become entirely different characters. In a good way.


http://i.imgur.com/pScMLhq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4PprItE.png
http://i.imgur.com/Etqg6f3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1yXID6y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WgCn9L3.png
http://i.imgur.com/pdsv0Me.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9qBLpCS.jpg

Though Ironically, the most popular characters ended up being the Materials since they get most of the best scenes due to being tie main rivals. And also their personalities are just much more funner then the original trio. Though that was the same situation in GoD.

http://i.imgur.com/zvoOoUl.jpg

Hayate, real Reiforce, and rest of the Yagami family also have their fair share of popular scenes since their situation is a lot different.
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Raikoh
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Re: Magical Girls

Except the movie isn't an alternate universe/timeline, it's an in-universe production a la Do You Remember Love. That's the justification for things like Precia being portrayed more sympathetically as well as cutting out all of the Graham subplot from A's (as that was still confidential). If you want to talk about gameplay elements like power and it not being brought up in the main series, that only opens up another kettle of worms since you have things like Shamal and Yuuno fighting on par with Precia, Vivio and Einhart capable of flight, and Hayate being able to fight at all. Not to mention various plot points such as Reinforce still being around (as the crux of the plot) and altering the way the Book of Darkness functions as well as its history when it was made very clear in A's.

That's not even getting into how Force and Vivid are practically mutually exclusive when it comes to certain plot points. The most notable being that Vivid takes place in 0079 and Tohma was rescued in 0074. If Tohma's past is to be believed, you'd have thought that he would at least get name dropped in Vivid if the two were in the same continuity. Plus, I don't recall Force having Nanoha do any Nanoha-mama things or even really bringing up Vivio. Really, it just provides a convenient way to chop Force off of the canon as it was very terribly done and is better to just leave cancelled.

Really, there are so many inconsistencies with the Portable series that there's no way it could be considered as part of the main timeline, not even as a thing that "could" have happened. The Materials, though, do have the capabilities of traveling through time and space to the other continuities (and multiverse theory would say that one of those would be similar to the movie timeline, either that or they visited Last Action Hero beforehand) so more than likely they are the only characters who could visit all of the entries of the franchise and not have it cause a hiccup.
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Destiny_Gundam
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Re: Magical Girls

Raikoh wrote:That's not even getting into how Force and Vivid are practically mutually exclusive when it comes to certain plot points. The most notable being that Vivid takes place in 0079 and Tohma was rescued in 0074. If Tohma's past is to be believed, you'd have thought that he would at least get name dropped in Vivid if the two were in the same continuity. Plus, I don't recall Force having Nanoha do any Nanoha-mama things or even really bringing up Vivio.
Vivio does show up in Force wearing her middle school uniform. To think the two are in different continuities is ridiculous.
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Raikoh
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Re: Magical Girls

They are both part of the main continuity on paper, but considering things brought up in Force, it seems really odd that Subaru never even mentions Tohma in Vivid when apparently he's supposed to be like a brother to her. Also, being cancelled (or "indefinite hiatus since 2013") is a good reason to just consider Force as the diseased tree limb that got cut off before it could spread any further.
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Strike Zero
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Re: Magical Girls

I don't know much about Force, but I do know that it gave us this, so it gets at least one gold star in my book. :)
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Raikoh
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Re: Magical Girls

Okay, I just ranted as to the AEC equipment and why it's universally stupid not twelve hours ago. The tl;dr version:

-It looks completely out of place in Nanoha. It's like taking Final Fantasy designs and putting them in Wild Arms.
-They're all incredibly bulky, frequently taking up full pages in the manga and at their smallest are larger than the entire body of the user. At the biggest they are like three times the size of the user.
-They're poorly designed from a technical standpoint, with things like the barrel of Tohma's gun being blocked by the blade and speed-focused Fate having her primary weapon becoming a massive sword instead of it being reserved for a finisher.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me how people actually, unironically like the designs of weapons in Force?
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Strike Zero
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Re: Magical Girls

Well, yeah, but, they look pretty cool, you know? :)
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Henyo
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Re: Magical Girls

Houkago no Pleaides TV has finally begun! its been a while since we had a more traditional Magical Girl TV anime huh? at any rate, Madoka color scheme comparisons ho!

looks like it was a bit of a good decision not to read any Nanoha spinoff mangas...
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Raikoh
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Re: Magical Girls

I watched Houkago no Pleiades way back when the shorts were released, so it's kind of nice that it's getting a full season to actually breathe, having the pace match the tone, and better develop the characters and story. First episode is all right. Also from the online series, it'll be refreshing to have a new magical girl series where the love interest is a guy.

Animation quality seems fairly standard for your normal high-money anime studio, but it certainly is some flab off my mind to know that the only thing that Trigger took with it was some stylistic choices (while taking none of the actual fluid animation). I don't really like how much CG was used, especially in non-dynamic middle shots, but it's not a deal breaker especially since it's likely just a budget saving tool for shots that are unimportant.

Can we really draw color scheme comparisons to Madoka when they're more like those from Heartcatch?
Henyo wrote:looks like it was a bit of a good decision not to read any Nanoha spinoff mangas...
Just Force. It's written like bad fanfiction with an antagonist group that doesn't fit in with Nanoha at all (completely unsympathetic, ridiculously overpowered, steals the majority of the spotlight...), a Gary Stu (yes, male) main character, and sidelining fan-favorites like the Wolkenritter in favor of characters like (no joke) five uninteresting drones who share one personality.

I just want a Nanoha entry to be as good as A's again...
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Destiny_Gundam
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Re: Magical Girls

Raikoh wrote:-It looks completely out of place in Nanoha.
I don't see how they could, considering they're all based on stuff that already exists in the franchise. Fortress is based on the Blaster bits, Fate's zanber is based on her, well, zanber, etc.

As for why they're so bulky, they are prototypes in the middle of testing. That's also why they're not particularly effective when first used. This is how it's actually supposed to go, rather than the invincible super prototypes we're used to.

Whereas Vivid is a return to basics, Force is the next natural evolution in the franchise. It keeps familiar aspects while taking them further in different directions. First season was a very contained story, A's spread out into different worlds, StrikerS examined the inner conflicts and corruption of the Bureau, and Force goes out even further into the universe with its criminal underworld and big businesses.

It has the balls to have a male main character and I know that got a lot of panties twisted because there was a penis in their yuri paradise. Thoma is different with his own set of circumstances, but at his core he's still the same sort of good natured person Nanoha and Subaru are.

The Huckebein and Hades are good villians because they're actually villains for once. The Huckebein are nice enough if they're not paid to kill you, but they won't easily buy the friendship thing the heroes are selling. They're also, ya know, an actual threat. People were getting all butt hurt that the heroes aren't invincible and don't win with ease. It's a big universe so it's only natural there'll be bigger threats out there Nanoha and co can't handle.

Seems like some people were so used to their little comfort bubble that they lash out at anything that dare go beyond it. But Force dared and it was all the better for it.
Raikoh wrote:sidelining fan-favorites like the Wolkenritter
Because heaven forbid characters who've hit developmental dead-ends step aside to let new ones have a turn.
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