Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam - The Best Gundam Series?

[Nikkolas]

So back before I became a Gundam fan I was exposed to a lot of UC fans. As such what I heard most of the time was that Zeta was the best Gundam series hands down no questions asked. Now, being mostly done with a majority of Gundam series, I'm inclined to agree. It had a fantastic cast of heroes that was backed up by an amazing cast of villains. Kamille and Scirocco remain my favorite main character and main villain.

But I have yet to see much talk about Zeta on here since I started posting. That and LC's posts about not really caring for it too much has sparked my curiosity about what the good posters of this forum think about it. You've all been Gundam fans much longer than I have and probably have seen more series to boot. How does Zeta rate for you?

Also I should add that even before I started Zeta, I did hear some complaints. Well, more like a single complaint but repeated a few times. Kamille is not too popular with some people online. Basically any time the inevitable UC vs. CE debate came around if people said Kira was too over-emotional and irritating, the counter would be "not as bad as Kamille." (ironically even though I didn't particularly like Kira, he wasn't that whiny or irritating. Apparently even in one of those video game crossovers he was bright slapped I believe by Shinji Ikari of all people. That seems excessive...Kira was certainly no Shinji in the over-emotional department)

[monster]

I thought Zeta was just ok. I didn't care too much one way or the other about the characters (that's kind of how I feel about the 4 UC series, although ZZ's characters are a bit more fun).

So far, I am more interested in the characters of the AU series, so I'm actually excited for Reconguista as it's the first of Tomino's Gundam series that I may see on a weekly basis. I'll see if that makes any difference, aside from this being 2014 and no longer the 1970s-80s.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Check out this thread to see some local opinions on Zeta.

My view of it hasn't changed at all: I think it's overrated and I rank it at the very bottom. Outside of the final battle and the Psycho Gundam ones, none of the fights were that memorable, only a few characters are likable but they don't have much chemestry with each other, and worse of all it's joyless and not that entertaining. A show's gotta have heart but Zeta was too busy trying to be grimdark that it forgot to have one.

[AmuroNT1]

Basically any time the inevitable UC vs. CE debate came around if people said Kira was too over-emotional and irritating, the counter would be "not as bad as Kamille." (ironically even though I didn't particularly like Kira, he wasn't that whiny or irritating. Apparently even in one of those video game crossovers he was bright slapped I believe by Shinji Ikari of all people. That seems excessive...Kira was certainly no Shinji in the over-emotional department)

I'm no fan of Kira's either, but in his defense, he never flipped out and attacked an armed soldier just because the guy made a less-than-positive remark about his name.

And no, Shinji never slapped Kira. This is something that gets spread around a lot, but it's not true. There are two major things that need to be explained here:
1) The situation (which occurs in Super Robot Wars Alpha 3) is based off of the brief part early in Seed where Kira is being a self-absorbed dick because he thinks the Archangel is screwed without him. Since this is SRW, there are several characters around (including IIRC Kamille and Mazinger's Kouji Kabuto) who point out that this isn't true. When Kira starts beating up his friend Sai, Shinji steps in and tells him to back off. That's all there is to it.
2) This is not the same Shinji from the Eva TV series, but one who's better adjusted because he had honest friendship and understanding from the other mecha pilots, who also helped avert the darker tragedies of that series.

[Nikkolas]

Thanks for the explanation about the SRW game. Never played any of them so it's cool to learn about all the neat AU stuff that goes down there since Gundam fans seem to love them.
But in Kamille's defense, he didn't just attack Jerid because of the name thing. The Titans were taking over his home and generally being their usual oppressive and evil selves. I was weirded out b that scene at first too but the subsequent episodes really put it into context that it was mostly just the straw that broke the camel's back. (Kamille had many, many more issues than just the Titans as well)

And thanks for the link Destiny_Gundam.

[Xenosynth]

I mean... I enjoyed it, but that's not really that great coming from me since I tend to not try to rank series, and just... enjoy most Gundam series or at least gain something from them. Even Age has some of my favorite mecha design in recent history, so I was able to grab something from that series. I have a few nitpicks here and there (The obvious latter half of Destiny, CCA's slightly confusing start always bugged me, etc.) but really, Zeta's another good Gundam show to me. It's got some of my favorite mecha designs, I enjoy the characters, the soundtrack is pretty nice, and... yeah.

But then again, I probably don't really count in terms of opinion since I tend to enjoy pretty much everything with Gundam, and I'm not very critical unless it's egregious. ((Except I will say AGE is the weakest in the series, and I would consider it bad and not very enjoyable, and has a LOT of wasted potential, which really disappoints me, and it has a treatment of female characters as breeding/drama fodder that definitely gets worse than the sexism in other series. The only other show I considered kinda weak was Gunpla Builders, which is far overshadowed by Build Fighters (And I just didn't like the battle system as much xD).))

[HellCat]

I find Zeta overrated. The thing you need to remember is that when Wing brought most of us in the rest of the franchise was a vast mystery. Some people got their hands on Zeta episodes and started to build it up as the absolutely legendary Gundam show, never missing a beat and oozing with blood. Because most of us were young at the time this became parroted by those who hadn't seen it.

I'm not saying there isn't good stuff in Zeta, but for my money it's not the gold standard. Thankfully the Western fanbase has developed enough now that you'll get a range of informed opinions on what people consider the best show and we're a better community for it.

[Bryant Molirse]

My opinion on Zeta is this, it is EXTREMELY over-hyped. Personally it took me 4 starts before I could actually watch the full show. The first 3 times, Kamille's attitude, and various plot points just screamed bad writing to me, and I couldn't make it out of the first dozen, or so episodes. I finally was able to ignore all that, and watch the entire series, and honestly it didn't really get any better for me at any point. Many things were rough, character interactions, plot twists, like others have alluded to, it really feels like it is trying too hard to be dark/grim. I mean by the end of the show, they have killed off every former/current female pilot of the Argama accept Fa, and a couple of the named male ones. And don't get me started on the defections in the mid to late part of this show, and a bunch of other stuff, since I could go on for a while.

I have to say, out of everything, the thing that sticks out to me as being the most glaring is the Char/Amuro narrative projected throughout the show being completely out of line. By this I mean, you have two men who had tried to kill each other years earlier, and who would go on to kill each other a few years after this point, getting along in a tolerable way. Yes their goals against the Titans/Earth Unified Government might have been the same, but they would have/should have avoided all contact with each other. Instead of seeing a real angst ridden situation between the two former enemies, one where a fight between the two men might erupt at any moment, it just fizzles into another team up, just like all of the former members of the white base who come into contact with Char.

Anyways I won't throw the series to the lowest spot in ranking, but I know it's not far from the bottom for me. Every Gundam series has it's own issues, and anyone who says any particular series doesn't is glossing things over for personal preference.

[Zeonista]

*Grandpa Simpson voice* Kids these days, no respect for the classics I tell ya!

I do think of Zeta Gundam as the best one ever. I have my "three reasons" for it too. ("I can give you three reasons for it" is apparently a defining statement with me, as friends have pointed out. )

1. It was the first Gundam TV series I watched beginning to end. The original MSG movies don't really count, because they were a highlights reel. The first Gundam series you watch all the way through tends to stick with you as a fan, first love and all that. It will also tend to define your "want/expect list" for a Gundam series, for better or worse.

2. It's a really good show, worthy of the hype. Zeta Gundam showed that Sunrise could go back to the well for success, and they've been doing it ever since. You're welcome, AU fans. Tomino-sama got a rare free hand in the story development and a budget up to his needs, and the finished anime looks like it. For Eighties standards it was mighty quality, and even now the DVD scans hold up well for hand-drawn animation. The movie versions showed the new modern CG animation could be used for the MS and scene progression and keep them current with little effort.

3. To paraphrase a certain Presidential campaign slogan, "It's the mecha, stupid." Mecha anime needs good mecha to succeed, and to use them well. Back when I was a n00b fan and didn't know enough about the UC world to care, I still grooved to the MS designs and action. Zeta Gundam took the original good MS designs, and did the next-gen upgrade with the Rick Dias, Galbaldy Beta, Hyaku Shiki, Gaplant and the titular Zeta Gundam. Faster, quicker, more firepower, look good doing it, that's what is required for MS in a sequel, and the show delivered. (A transforming Gundam might have helped an established Robotech fan jump into the deep side of the Gundam pool. )

[Raikoh]

I wouldn't pretend like Zeta's flawless, because it isn't. However, I still think it ranks among my top five, being set alongside series like Turn A or War in the Pocket. Does it get too much hype? Yes, and I can totally understand if/why somebody doesn't like it. But saying it's overhyped to me is more in line with calling a four-star restaurant perfect, not like calling a McDonald's "artisan cuisine."

Kamille never bothered me as a character, partly since a flawed main character is something I look for in a series. He's got a laundry list of personality issues and seeing him conflict with his crewmates because of them and slowly learn to overcome them makes him one of my favorite main characters in Gundam. I never get why people are so fixated on having the main character be super perfect, cool guy rather than a relatable, flawed human being (like a lot of my personal favorite Gundam protagonists - Asemu, Amuro, Kamille, Kira - are).

Outside of Kamille, I just think that something in Zeta just feels right. The Mobile Suit design is some of the best looking out of the franchise, the entire scenario is a really interesting one (which is why it got copied in like half of the alternate universe series), not to mention having a lot of entertaining characters (Yazan got copied multiple times across universes, as did Four, Scirocco, Jerid, and obviously Quattro), and outside of the Biosensor it has what is probably the closest to genuine Real Robot action that televised Gundam will get (mind you - televised). Oh, and the art/animation was way ahead of its time, some of the best in the 80s.

There's not much else to say other than I really found the scenario to be interesting and I wasn't bothered by any of the characters people call annoying (outside of Katz) so I really enjoy Zeta. Admittedly more for its grand sweeping ideas than any single episode.

[AmuroNT1]

I never get why people are so fixated on having the main character be super perfect, cool guy rather than a relatable, flawed human being (like a lot of my personal favorite Gundam protagonists - Asemu, Amuro, Kamille, Kira - are).

Projection/wish fulfillment. The audience is supposed to be able to relate to main character, and being able to put yourself in their shoes is a part of that. Unfortunately, this also ties in with the "Mary Sue impulse"; you don't want to see a character tied to yourself in bad situations, so a character who never loses and always looks cool is appealing in that regard. That's why there are so many harem shows based around the idea of a protagonist who gets chased by a bevy of gorgeous, devoted girls despite the fact that his only defining trait is that he acts as nice as society expects him to (see also: Nice Guys).

[Xenosynth]

Mini ramble about characters:

Spoiler

I always found characters like Kamille, Amuro, or Shinji Ikari a lot more relatable and likable honestly. Same with Saji from 00, and Simon from Gurren Lagann (Who I like more than Kamina, not that Kamina is bad, I just like Simon more). I feel hate on those characters is really unwarranted a lot of the time. Whenever people hate on them, especially people I know would react similarly if not worse just from how petty they can be, it amuses me and saddens me at the same time. I know several people in real life who completely hate on Shinji Ikari, when I've seen their behavior and it is FAR WORSE (even taking into account the whole comatose Asuka thing), and it annoys me. Maybe it shouldn't because I guess people can all have their views on people in fiction, but I treat it how I would treat people in real life, so it's really hard to get me to dislike someone I can see as a real person, flaws and all.

Anyway, back on topic:

I have to wonder if people have a similar leaning as Zeonista pointed out. I mean... Unicorn seems to get a ton of hate heaped on it, yet it was my gateway series for Gundam, and has consistently been one of my favorite Gundam series. Banagher I also really like as a protagonist, and while I consider Episode 4 to be a bit extreme with his behavior (As while he didn't like harming people earlier, still, looking at his interaction with the Dreissen, before he arrived on earth during the battle with Full Frontal, etc, it just shows they wrote him a bit out of character with Loni), his earlier sentiments, such as calling out Zeon while with Gilboa's family, as well as other earlier moments with him, made me really like him. One incident in one episode can't make me hate him because for me, he's the first Gundam protagonist I cared about. So I imagine, if there are a lot of older fans who started with Zeta (Especially those who were around during Wing's time), maybe they feel similarly. They are attached to the series as their gateway, and so it ends up being their favorite or at least gets a lot of praise from them.

[Zeonista]

Kamille never bothered me as a character, partly since a flawed main character is something I look for in a series. He's got a laundry list of personality issues and seeing him conflict with his crewmates because of them and slowly learn to overcome them makes him one of my favorite main characters in Gundam. I never get why people are so fixated on having the main character be super perfect, cool guy rather than a relatable, flawed human being (like a lot of my personal favorite Gundam protagonists - Asemu, Amuro, Kamille, Kira - are).

I agree, and Camille is my #1 Gundam protagonist because of his learning curve in becoming a mecha hero, which is credible in showing how a troublesome introverted brat with a chip on his shoulder becomes a dedicated, reliable member of AEUG and a great Gundam pilot for his age.

Outside of Kamille, I just think that something in Zeta just feels right. The Mobile Suit design is some of the best looking out of the franchise, the entire scenario is a really interesting one (which is why it got copied in like half of the alternate universe series), not to mention having a lot of entertaining characters (Yazan got copied multiple times across universes, as did Four, Scirocco, Jerid, and obviously Quattro)

Zeta Gundam did indeed set the standard for what was expected for Gundam anime, which is pretty much proof of its status. The first series gets the accolades, but it's Zeta Gundam that usually gets raided for ideas and examples when a new series gets made. That's pretty much the verdict of history for me, even despite my favorable bias.

, and outside of the Biosensor it has what is probably the closest to genuine Real Robot action that televised Gundam will get (mind you - televised).

Yes! The MS combat works well, both in terms of use of the MS characteristics, the pilot characteristics, and in how events are plotted. There's not much in the way of beam-spamming, the MS pilots snipe, trap-shoot, dogfight, and grapple in close combat with their MS depending on the scene.

Xenosynth: Zeta Gundam was definitely my gateway series, since I watched the first 15 episodes on crappy 3rd-4th episode VHS quality before anything else with the Gundam brand on it. (BTW this is why I tend to sneer at people who complain about video quality on DVD/BD. I know what craptastic video quality really looks like! ) Even then I knew it was a badass show. After that I watched the MSG movies, and then (thank God) the first half of the series in about 2nd gen VHS, which was a definite improvement. Then a couple of guys pooled their cash to order the LD set, and it was transcendental. I just wish I could have started at level of video quality as you did with the Unicorn series, it must have been awesome.

[HellCat]

Kamille isn't my absolute favourite but I do sympathise with him, for personal reasons I expect more than a few fans hold. Sometimes out of sympathy, sometimes I'm ashamed to say for having the same flashes of temper.

I was really glad when A New Translation redid the 'Have you ever heard of Char?' scene because in the TV version Kamille just seems to get trashed by adults all the time because that was how the angsty key demographic felt. The Wong scene is another example of that. I get that we're supposed to partly take it as Kamille needing to learn that in the world of adults you can't always blurt out whatever whim you believe in, but Quattro and the others intentionally buggering off so it can happen.....ok then

[Nikkolas]

I heard the reasoning for the excessive violence in Zeta was a callback to the Imperial Japanese. Apparently semi-random, horrific beatings and even knife fights were not uncommon in their military.

A lot of talk about Kamille but what about the bad guys? Zeta has a large cast of villains - Haman is usually listed as a lot of people's favorite Gundam female, or close to it.

[HEDGESMFG]

Even after 15 years in this fandom, Zeta remains my top favorite for numerous reasons. To the point where, though I accept that people have different tastes... I still remain surprised that so many people can objectively hate it as much as they seem to do.

Why do I like it so much? Moreso than the other shows? Many reasons.

1. The animation quality. Sure, the animation is dated. There is no question to it. Some shots are even painful to look at compared to any work produced in the 90s or later. However, it and ZZ represent the absolute peak of what the 80s TV anime could achieve, and boy does it show. The show had the budget it needed. Recycled footage is minimal (mostly launch sequences), there's tons of shading. The action, though not as complex as later shows like Victory, is complex, well thought out, and brilliantly choreographed. This is further exemplified by just how well both Zeta and ZZ transferred to HD in their respective blu ray remasterings, often retaining just as much detail in certain cel animation shots as a lot of early 00s digital animation. It of course did not surpass the quality of the late 80s/90s OVAs, but it was as close as most TV shows were going to get for that era, and it compared to later bretheren like Wing, G, X, and even SEED surprisingly well. (Turn A and Victory surpassed it in fluid animation quality, though not in detail in Victory's case).

This is without even discussing the quality of the mecha designs themselves. As have already been pointed out, the original lineart aged far better than what you saw in 0079. The designs did have a bit of a silly 80s flare at times (Baund Doc, Gabthley, Psyco Gundam), others were simply very cool and sleek then, and remain just as cool and sleek now (Zeta, Gaplant, Byarlant, Hyaku Shiki). Just about every one of them looked good in actual motion too, especially with the push for modular transforming suits, a trend no doubt taken from Macross' success... and one I don't mind them taking at all.

2. Zeta has a very varied and interesting cast. Many people dislike the cast because in the long run only a handful of people on said cast are idealistic and seemingly "likeable". But likability does not necessarily equate to good writing, and visa versa. The simple truth is, a lot of the people that participate in this war are severely flawed, and their mistakes and poor choices are only magnified by the horrific effects that "war is hell" can have on people. Given the absolutely horrific state the world must be in after the OYW's fallout, this is not all that surprising.

Kamille starts out as a total psyched out jerkface who only mellows out as he gains direction in his life, and even then, the war still takes almost everything from him. Fa can be annoying, but her situation is no better than anyone else's, and her role and uncertainty in the war more than justify a little bit of turmoil.

Char's enigmatic characterization are part of the show's strength, not a weakness, and the way his relationship with Amuro plays out is very interesting to watch. Every moment with both of them on screen together is great, but what makes it better is the idea that despite everything that happened in the past, both are NOT instantly enemies like one would expect.

Jerid was a very different kind of character than what we get anywhere else in Gundam. He's a hotshot who's continually held back by his own ego and shortsightedness, yet it makes him tragic in a twisted way. A very different kind of rival than your typical masked gundam opponent.

Four Murasame was a far, far more interesting Newtype than Lalah, Puru, Quess, or just about any other doomed gundam female. The way her final death plays out is so horribly tragic it's almost Shakespearian (not the way she dies, but the fact that Amuro and Char must watch history repeat itself when it happens).

Even characters who turned out bad in the end like Reccoa did not do so as idly as one may think. She is often heavily criticized for being a turncoat, but if you look at her actions in the end, her story isn't that hard to believe. She was raised as a guerrilla for nearly a decade, surrounded by no decent home, and likely nothing but unstable relationships. She became both resentful of the type of uncommitted war-minded men that surrounded her, and yet at the same time addicted to the thrills of survival the most dangerous missions. Ultimately, she follows these addictions and chose to live a selfish life, the same as any man OR woman in the real world cheats on an undeserving spouse who has been faithful. It's a terrible and selfish decision, and one they may even somewhat regret, but such is how some people can be. In the end, she died with her selfishness cursing at the world (and men) that produced a person like her. Her story is both a tragedy and a warning to keep our impulses in check, even if life does legitimately short change us at times.

And villains like Scirocco and Yazan speak for themselves, which bring me to my next point.

3. Zeta is simply, filled, with countless, bad-ass moments. It is terribly entertaining. I actually find Kamille's rash temperament entertaining to watch. The fact that he was so petty that he stole a MS just to antagonize the MP who gave him crap shows that yes, he's childish at first... but it's a starting point from which he can later grow and mature. Yazan's backstabbing antics. The Titan's unrelentless brutality. Jerid's equally petty provoking of Kamille and their rivalry. Visiting the 30th Bunch colony. The shocking and unexpected deaths that pushed the borders for what was typically seen even on Japanese TV. No one was immune in this show. Love interests, kids, ace pilots, cute women, politicians... no one got out of this war unscathed. The final battle is a no hold bars all out death match for supremacy, where no one on the writing staff held back. And why should anyone hold back in a war?

4. Zeta is filled with countless memorable quotes, great debates, and despite what some like to yap about, good dialogue. It really bugs me when people say Tomino's so poor at dialogue. If you watch some shows where he has low amounts of screen time, I can in some ways see it. I can see where that awkwardness steps in... but with things like 0079 and Zeta, I couldn't disagree more. "I came here to laugh at you", "Have you ever heard of a man named, Char Aznable?" and just about everything that comes out of Char's mouth is very memorable and appropriate. Most of the conversations between Four and Kamille are interesting. Kamille's sharp temperamental wit and pointedness often leads to some good observations about human nature.

I'm going to end this long post by saying that I think objectively trying to pick the best Gundam series is impossible, especially with the internet now having full access to the entire franchise. There is simply too much of a variation in taste for their to be a major consensus on this. That is fine. I am not calling Zeta the best anime, not even the best series, despite the thread's title. However, I am definitely calling it my favorite. To me personally, it shows what this franchise can be, wonderfully engrossing and relevant science fiction with plenty to teach us about mankind and where we could be going.

[Kratos]

I don't hate Zeta, I just don't love it. It definitely has its moments, and I fully acknowledge how important it is to the franchise - in fact, I think it's an incredibly brilliant sequel on paper, I just don't always like how it's executed. Its characters and pacing (especially during the Earth arc) in particular really throw me off.

Still, it's pretty far from my least favourite Gundam show, and isn't even my least favourite Tomino show.

[Victorize]

Zeta was my favorite series for a long time (that slot now being filled by 00) and after rewatching it, I find that there are only a few episodes where it shines after the first 15 and before the last 15 of the series. For this reason I can understand the recent trend in Zeta bashing; I think a lot of people just remember the best parts from watching it their first time through but now a lot of people have finally come around to watching it again while also comparing it to more contemporary styles of writing.

I like Kamille a lot though. He's my favorite UC protagonist (so much so that the tortured expression he has when they find him awoken from his coma on the beach in ZZ episode 33 gave me chills) and probably has the best piloting skills (and even Newtype skill) of any UC character. Quattro is also Char at his best.

On top of that, there's the pretty consistently fantastic 80s mecha details and fights as well as Zeta having some of my favorite suits in the entire franchise (Galbaldy B, Hyaku Shiki, the Zeta itself, Messala, Gabthley, Byarlant, Asshimar, Bolinoak Sammahn, The O, Baund Doc, and Psyco 2)

[Amion]

Zeta still stands as my favorite series, for many, many reasons. I think a lot of people recently seem to think that having this opinion is just wrong, which it isn't. (Note: I'm not saying this about you guys here on mechatalk, you're all too respectful for the most part).

I could go on and on, but since you like it, Nikkolas, I don't think you really need to hear it, especially since Zeonista has already given a briefing on it.

I will mention I found the fighting style my favorite in the any of the Gundam series. Each of the Gundam shows seems to follow a certain style that appeals to different people. Not bad at all, but Zeta seemed to take fighting in mobile suits in a practical way without the posing SEED gave, or the complete smackdown-curbstomping-romps of destruction Wing presented.

Beam sabers were used only when an opening presented itself. The fights all felt realistic and basically the same as in Unicorn. Only with old but QUALITY animation. ZZ also follows this trend, even throughout the silliness.

I found a good many of the characters empathic. I have had friends who basically went through everything Kamille did. Since he's a Newtype and basically absorbs everyone else's angst, I can easily see why he's whiny. As for chemistry, I would argue it has plenty of it, it's just not in a happy package. I don't like all my shows being grim or serious. By that same logic I don't want them all HAPPY AND FUULLL O' Joy! Zeta just happens to be a great, dark, and philosophical sequel to MSG. And in contrast, ZZ brings us all the lightheartedness Zeta forgoes. the running debates about Newtypes also sets a perfect stage for the series to come. Most notably Crossbone, which is like a final word from Tomino about Scirocco, Haman, Kammile, and Char, and what role Newtypes have.

[Soma Taozi]

I personally like Zeta. It isn't the best, but it isn't the worst. My feelings about it can be summed up with this: someone once said that Zeta Gundam is like a fine wine and that it gets better with age.

I am not talking about how the further it gets away from the 80s, the better Zeta gets (the opposite might be true), but when I first watched all of Zeta I didn't really like it.

It was dry, unnecessarily dark at times, and at times, the character interactions felt weird and awkward. My biggest problem at the time was the lack of character development...or so I thought.

But then you start thinking about it. And more you think about Zeta, the more you like it.This is what I meant by fine wine.

That being said, this might be what some of you have said, that the ideas in place are better then the execution, but upon reflecting on the characters...you can see their development. It is slow, gradual, and maybe takes too long for its own good...but it is there and it is subtle.

And if you can do subtly well in anime, chances are I will enjoy it.

But I can see where people are coming from with the distaste. I personally get annoyed when people proclaim Zeta the "end all of Gundam and all other Gundam series suck." (No one here is doing that...just elsewhere in the dark corners of the internet).

BUT! I am putting on my rant-hat now... Even though I like Zeta a lot...my biggest complaint about the show is the deaths.

Not because of who died, why the died, or if I even liked the characters (I really didn't like many of them). It was how excessive it got...the dramatic moments didn't feel earned like they did in the first series and it almost seemed like Zeta was over-compensating for its slow story and was resolving its plot-lines and rivalries without actually trying to find a decent resolution. I am all for deaths of characters to make war feel real and to add drama to the story...but when your last 4 episodes is just death after death...it starts to feel like someone is just dangling a shine toy in front of your face and going "ooo! Look at how DARK it is! OOO! This is war!!! Do you get it yet?!!" Lots of deaths does NOT equal GOOD final episodes.*

*Victory is by FAR the most guilty of these crimes*

Turn A and the original series proved that you don't need to have a bloody and violent finale for a war story drama to have impact. Imagine if Sochie died in the last few episodes of Turn A Gundam? We wouldn't have that heart-breaking scene of her screaming out her loneliness on the bicycle in the finale episode.

But anyway, Zeta is good. Not amazing. Not terrible. But a pretty good sequel with some fantastic ideas...just needed a better finale in my opinion.