The Principality's Birthday

[toysdream]

No, it's not the birthday of the Principality of Zeon just yet - that's about a week away as per the official timeline, on August 15, U.C. 0069. But it's on my mind because of a stray line of dialogue in episode 30 of Gundam ZZ...

At the beginning of this episode, ambitious young nitwit Glemy Toto is wandering through the Sahara desert, muttering to himself about the legacy of Degwin Zabi. (Although the nature of Glemy's relationship to the Zabi family is never explained in the animation, the ZZ novels claim he's actually Degwin's illegitimate son.) Glemy's recap begins something like this...

The teachings of Zeon Zum Deikun were put into practice by Degwin Zabi. In the year U.C. 0065, the Principality of Zeon was born.

You know, if we hold to Sunrise's dictum that only filmed works are official, then this should actually supersede the published claims that the Principality was founded in U.C. 0069! Let's think about that for a minute.


The current official timeline goes as follows...

U.C. 0052: Zeon Deikun moves to Side 3.
U.C. 0058: Side 3 declares independence. Republic of Zeon and National Guard established.
U.C. 0059: Casval Deikun born.
U.C. 0062: Zeon National Guard becomes a full-fledged military. Artesia Deikun born.
U.C. 0068: Zeon Deikun dies. Degwin Zabi succeeds him as leader.
U.C. 0069: Degwin Zabi establishes Principality of Zeon. Casval and Artesia escape.

This is more or less as per the original setting notes. In Gundam The Origin, Yas likewise puts Deikun's death in U.C. 0068. Tomino's Gundam novels, however, laid out a different chronology that goes roughly thus...

U.C. 0056: Zeon Deikun's opponents purged from Side 3.
U.C. 0058: Side 3 declares independence. Republic of Zeon established.
U.C. 0062: Zeon Deikun dies. Degwin Zabi succeeds him as leader.
U.C. 0065: Degwin Zabi establishes Principality of Zeon. Deikun faction purged.

Part of what makes this work is that the characters generally seem to be older than in the animation. Sayla, for example, is 20 years old in the novels; Char seems to be roughly 24; Garma Zabi is about 22. Still, these dates were also cited in the novel-inspired background essay in Roman Album Extra 42, and in the MSV series. For example, as per the Zaku Marine Type kit manual and the MSV Handbook series:

In U.C. 0058, a national guard was established when Zeon Zum Deikun formed a republic at Side 3. However, this could not be called a real military. When Degwin Sodo Zabi seized power in U.C. 0062, he quickly raised the national guard to the status of a national military.

In other words, this reference in the Gundam ZZ script is actually vouching for the chronology of Tomino's novels. This would mean that Sayla was born the same year her father died, and Char would have been about 3 years old. Presumably they'd have left Side 3 no more than three years afterward, at ages 3 and 6 respectively.

-- Mark

[Deacon Blues]

I thought Glemy was the illegitimate son of Gihren, not Degwin. The Plot to Assassinate Gihren has at least two officials discussing the rumors surrounding the Toto family...

[toysdream]

There are lots of conflicting theories, but only two that really have any credibility as far as I'm concerned.

On the one hand, the novels claim that he's the illegitimate son of Degwin Zabi. His real parentage was revealed to him by Dr. Maganny, who approached him while he was in college at Axis and connected him to the hardline "old Zeon" faction. Although the ZZ novels aren't by Tomino, they're written by Akinori Endo, who wrote almost half of the episodes of the ZZ animation - including episodes 23 and 32, which touch pretty directly on the subject of Glemy's position within Axis.

Meanwhile, Animedia's second Gundam ZZ book includes a sidebar that summarizes the unpublished "setting" material related to Glemy and the Ple clones, which was prepared by the TV series staff but never used in the actual animation. According to this summary, Glemy was a test-tube baby created by combining genetic material from Gihren Zabi and a female Newtype; the Ple clones were part of the same project, making them basically siblings.

Neither of these is really official, but I think they at least come from credible sources, which is more than I'll say for most of the BS rumors that have circulated over the years. If anything, I find Endo's theory more credible - Glemy was born in U.C. 0071, which seems pretty early for Gihren to be performing genetics experiments based on a Newtype theory he doesn't even believe in. (Not to mention that Glemy himself doesn't seem to have any particular Newtype abilities.)

Elpeo Ple, meanwhile, was born in U.C. 0077. According to her dialogue in episode 18 of Gundam ZZ (another Endo-scripted episode), she was born and raised at Axis, so whatever crazy genetics experiments may have been involved in her birth presumably took place there.

-- Mark

[balofo]

ZZ had so much potential...

Thanks Tomino, Sunrise and whoever was responsible for it!

[Deacon Blues]

It makes me wonder about some things... as in who was in charge of Axis and why they'd conduct genetic research that far out in space. I mean, Axis construction began in 0072 and in just five short years you have the birth of a cyber newtype? Maharja arrives there in 0078.06 and assumes command. If CDA is any indication of his character, he doesn't seem to be the type to be fooling around with genetic experiments, despite the appearance of the Ple twins in one of the later chapters in the series... Then again apparently Haman forgot about them by the time the series fits into the timeline

Elpeo Ple, meanwhile, was born in U.C. 0077. According to her dialogue in episode 18 of Gundam ZZ (another Endo-scripted episode), she was born and raised at Axis, so whatever crazy genetics experiments may have been involved in her birth presumably took place there.

Here is what I don't get. If she's 10 years old according to her profile information, then she'd be born in 0078... so unless there was a setting mistake somewhere, she's 11 during the series? The Gundam Perfect file says she was born on 0077.03.08. The first Neo Zeon war ended 0089.01.17. 88-77 = 11 0_o; Or do we count cold sleep as negating any progression in age?

[Zeino]

I could see the Principality being older than mere 10 years as it would have take more time then that to have built the formidable Zeon military forces of the One Year War.

Not to mention that Glemy himself doesn't seem to have any particular Newtype abilities.

Well, he seems to have no problem piloting the Queen Mansa along side Ple Two.

[toysdream]

It makes me wonder about some things... as in who was in charge of Axis and why they'd conduct genetic research that far out in space. I mean, Axis construction began in 0072 and in just five short years you have the birth of a cyber newtype? Maharja arrives there in 0078.06 and assumes command.

That last part is as per CDA, which claims that Maharaja Karn was assigned to take charge of Axis before the war, and all the other Zeon remnants came there of their own accord. But as usual, that's not the only account!

Entertainment Bible 2, for example, says that Maharaja Karn was the leader of the Zeon remnant fleet that rejected the authority of the Republic of Zeon and ran away to Axis after the war. (It also describes Karn as "an aide to Sovereign Degwin.") And neither the animation nor Tomino's novels mention Maharaja Karn at all - the only family member Haman mentions in the animation is her elder sister, and in his Zeta novels, Tomino says that Haman went along to Axis after the war largely because of her sister...

Haman had deep feelings towards the Zabi family. This was because her older sister had been Dozle's mistress.

Haman's sister had not been physically robust. When she fled the Earth Sphere, just before the fall of the Zabi family, Haman had tried to stop her sister from escaping the Earth Sphere in obedience to Dozle's wishes. This was her sister's reply.

"I know it's old-fashioned to surrender yourself body and soul to one true love, but I think women are born with the ability to do that. And besides, I don't want to go through the irritation and nervous stress of another love-hate relationship..."

This was her sister's excuse for escaping the Earth Shere, and Haman hated her for it. But because she was concerned about the crafty-looking man known as Char, Haman escaped the Earth Sphere along with her sister.

When her sister died before reaching the asteroid belt, Haman became one of Mineva's attendants in her sister's place. She worked to win Mineva's affection so that she could eventually seize control over Axis.

Note that, in this account, Haman achieved her position as regent based on Mineva's favor, not because she inherited it from her father. Now I'm wondering where the notion of Maharaja Karn even came from! I guess the first reference I can find is from the timeline in the August 1987 issue of Newtype magazine, where an entry dated January 1, U.C. 0080 reads "Zeon remnants led by Maharaja Karn head for Axis in the asteroid belt."

All of which means that, before CDA, every source that mentioned Maharaja Karn said he led the Zeon remnants to Axis after the war, a couple years after Ple was born. So it's not so strange that the Karn family didn't know about this project.

Here is what I don't get. If she's 10 years old according to her profile information, then she'd be born in 0078... so unless there was a setting mistake somewhere, she's 11 during the series? The Gundam Perfect file says she was born on 0077.03.08. The first Neo Zeon war ended 0089.01.17. 88-77 = 11 0_o; Or do we count cold sleep as negating any progression in age?

That's a good point - she should have been born in U.C. 0078, since her first appearance in Gundam ZZ would surely after her tenth birthday on March 8, U.C. 0088. The original sources (like Animedia's Gundam ZZ books) only specified birthdays for the characters, not birth years, and a lot of later sources tend to make dumb math errors when they try to back-figure precise dates.

On the other other hand, this suggests that we can't figure out when anyone was actually born unless we know the timeline date of their first appearance! So it's also possible that the ages we have for the ZZ cast are as of the start of the series (which appears to be March 1, U.C. 0088), and Ple has already turned eleven by the time she appears in the show. It's a head-scratcher!

Well, he seems to have no problem piloting the Queen Mansa along side Ple Two.

But if Glemy himself was a Newtype, he wouldn't need Ple-Two sitting on his lap to do that.

-- Mark