Mission Accepted- Gundam Wing Rewatch

[ShadowCell]

no, it always leaves me feeling so empty inside

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

while we're at it, i have to say i've never quite been able to get past how young all these characters supposedly are. i guess it's not completely ridiculous for the Gundam pilots, if they've been trained since birth (at least until Heero starts doing all that Daredevil stuff), but it still weirds me out to watch this show and realize that i am actually older than Treize.

which i guess is also weird because at his age he was taking over the world and look where i am...

[Amion]

Remembered for controversial fanfiction and ponies?

And yes, Wufei always struck me as a very odd odd ball.

[Zeino]

no, it always leaves me feeling so empty inside

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

while we're at it, i have to say i've never quite been able to get past how young all these characters supposedly are. i guess it's not completely ridiculous for the Gundam pilots, if they've been trained since birth (at least until Heero starts doing all that Daredevil stuff), but it still weirds me out to watch this show and realize that i am actually older than Treize.

which i guess is also weird because at his age he was taking over the world and look where i am...

It's not like its the first Gundam series to have nearly everyone of importance be below age 25. See ZZ, where Judau is only 14 (yet in no way looks or sounds like it) and Haman and Glemy are aspiring rulers of the Earth Sphere at ages 21 and 18.

[HellCat]

I can see the point. The Gundam pilots are mid teens and the key OZ players are only a few years older than that. Gundam certainly has a long running theme of new vs old (which of course is ironic give how the franchise loves money for old rope in so many ways) but in Wing there's just something so pronounced about it. It's likely in part because no one really questions it. In the UC shows we see plenty of coddling the young pilots. In Wing, some soldier guy is willing to sell Wufei a ton of explosives for a briefcase full of coin. Because, hey, who wouldn't do that?

[Wingnut]

It gets a little more odd when in spite of being that young, people like Trieze, Une, Noin, and Zechs all look at least 5-10 years older then they actually are. Une looks mid/late 20s easily yet her official age is 19 IIRC. That threw me for a bit of a loop when I first read it.

[ShadowCell]

Well, it also kind of stands out when these exceptionally young characters are all wheeling and dealing with people who are obviously much older. Like, there's not-even-old-enough-to-drink Relena commanding the serious political respect and deference of a bunch of people who are old enough to be her grandfather. Gundam's other oddly precocious politicians generally seem to have the benefit of being dictators, of a sort, so their political power rests in large part on the fact that if you don't fall in line they can kill you. But Wing seems to want to operate in a universe in which fifteen-year-olds can legitimately rise to positions of political power and importance. Especially in Relena's case, her power comes from it being conferred by her peers, since she's not going to use force--which means all these graybeards are voluntarily conferring power on a fifteen-year-old girl, which is, y'know, kinda weird.

Oh well. I finished the TV series last night. Suppose I could start on Endless Waltz, but counterpoint: eh. I suppose Duo is my favorite of the Gundam pilots, since he's the most likely to voice whatever it is I'm thinking as I watch. Like, he's trying to talk to Heero as if he's some kind of normal person or something, and I'm thinking "Duo come on you know Heero's not a normal person," and Duo's all "oh right, I almost forgot, you're about as far from normal as they come," and I'm all "thank you." It's nice to have a character like that around.

And I guess I like Zechs. His motivations apparently change with the tides, but the consistent part of him is that he's pretty much the answer to the question "what if Char wasn't a sociopathic pile of dicks?" Throughout all his faction changes and shifting motivations, you never lose the sense that he's at least doing something he believes will be best for other people, not just wrapped up in whatever his own vendetta is, especially at the end. They say Zechs as leader of White Fang is supposed to be Char's Counterattack Char on fast-forward, but Zechs is missing the key component of Char, in that you never get the sense that Zechs' real goal under White Fang's actions is just to set up one more battle with Heero. And of course, Char would've taken full and cruel advantage of Noin's crazy devotion, but Zechs never really does. So I guess if you want to like Char but don't want to get on board with what a horrible person he is, Zechs is like a safe low-calorie trans fat-free organic alternative to the Red Comet.

But my absolute favorites have to be the Gundam scientists. They are just so freaking weird, and they hover on the edge between sinister and heroic, and, I mean, just look at them. Look at Professor G. His nose! It's enormous! And Doctor J! They are all hilarious and I loved every scene with them and they better not be really dead because every Gundam Wing production has to have them in it.

[AmuroNT1]

The scientists are indeed wonderful - they're the kind of guys who would have invented Mazinger Z or Getter Robo, except that they live in a Real Robot universe so instead they just made really powerful and unique Gundams. I always loved the scene where their oxygen's cut off and when Dr. J remarks on it, Prof. G responds "If you're going to die, hurry up and do it. The rest of us could use that air."

[Deacon Blues]

Well, we know Doctor J survived from the fact that the Gundam Evolve takes place after the series... and Frozen Teardrop back this little tidbit up to some extent.

[AmuroNT1]

Did he really survive? I always figured Evolve 7 took place during the final arc of the show, since it seemed to be the only period of time that matched up with all the elements (Heero having Wing Zero, Relena and J in the same place).

I mean, that and

Spoiler

the five scientists specifically stayed behind to self-destruct Libra to atone for building the damn thing in the first place, and it always looked to me like they and Quinze all got blown up together.

[Deacon Blues]

Nope, that took place in the Spring of AC-196.

Spoiler

AC-196 SPRING

“People’s minds are afflicted by two major diseases. One is our tendency to pass the idea of revenge down through generations, and another is our tendency to want to classify people by groups and not as individuals.”

“…”

“It’s true that your ideal succeeded in temporarily bringing an end to the chain of hatred that spanned centuries. However, a group that preaches pacifism built upon those ideals will not yield any disagreement on the matter.”

“…”

” I’m sure you’re aware what sorts of things are going on as a result.”

“…”

“We were talking about him, weren’t we?”

“…Yes…”

The old man’s laughing breath could be heard.

“He was the best. He exceeded our expectations. No matter what obstacle he faced, he never gave up.”

“…”

“His name… that’s right… I came up with that name, didn’t I?”

“Heero Yuy, you mean?”

“Yes, a pretty good name for an alias, don’t you think?”

“Intel saying that you assigned him a new mission is correct, is it not?”

“Would you mind if I answered that after you answer some of my own questions?”

“Not at all…”

“Can the ideal of total pacifism really be obtained by throwing away weapons and confining soldiers?”

“So long as the concept of fighting doesn’t disappear from the minds of the people, then true peace may be unobtainable.”

“Do you really think man has matured that much?”

“Not yet, and from now on it’ll be quite difficult.”

Relena could be heard giving a deep sigh.

“But, mankind itself doesn’t need to confront an enemy. Rather, they must face the difficulties blocking their way with everything they have.”

“And so that’s why you planned Mars’ terraforming, isn’t it?”

“I understand if this notion makes you laugh, but it’s what I honestly believe in.”

The old man’s body could be heard shaking. He seemed to be getting quite a chuckle out of it.

“As you say…”

The creaking sound of a chair turning around was heard.

“Right now, Heero is on a mission to destroy an Earth assault-use colony type beam cannon that is nearing completion. So you see, there always needs to be a deterrent named ‘Heero Yuy’ in the shadows of the peace you created.”

“…”

“And that is regardless of the times or the location.”

[HellCat]

The real start of the Mobile Doll plot is pretty good. The actual idea is explored well across the episode, especially when Treize gives the order for his men to turn their guns on Tubarov. The wider story gets a bit muddled later (I feel it falls in with Wing's inconsistent attitude to senseless violence vs flashy death scenes) but Treize's concerns are quite valid at this point.

Points won back for the Japanese cast, Dermail and Tubarov actually have tolerable voices there. Wing's dub casting/director should be dropped from a plane...and then shot through the head.

I agree with the response to the mad scientists. These guys are really something else and seem to broach a character angle that most of the other cast come nowhere close to. I like how each of them has a different, eccentric look and you get the feeling they're noble yet shifty all at once.

The younger government members in the colonies being gullible while the old man sees the truth of OZ...that's a bit of a rarity for Gundam, isn't it? I'm really mixed on that whole situation. On the one hand it's easy to see why up and comers would seize a chance for peace after generations of oppression. But glasses guy seems far too over eager, like he's smitten with Une rather than following logic. It's muddled further by the fact at this point the Gundams haven't really done anything to benefit the colonies. Heero was tricked into destroying a genuine chance for peace, no one knows about the threat with Barge and in general the Gundams have just been pursuing small victories. At least in 00 CB had the active and stated goal of eliminating any potential for conflict.

[HellCat]

19 and 20. I'm trying to enjoy this because after Wing Zero debuts the show loses steam again for a long while until the plot with White Fang starts.

Maybe it's because this was my first Gundam show, but I like the idea the Gundams aren't designed to work in space. Endless Waltz will later give a reason for that but given we see the likes of the Leo need extra equipment it's a nice bit of consistency to just see the Gundams flailing around as they each get intercepted. I'm gonna be very interested to see how I feel about certain episodes coming up, since back as a teenager I loved the debut of Altron and Deathscythe Hell (of course this was before I learned of the tradition of hand me downs and upgrades).

Speaking of, Vayeate and Mercurius are two of my favourite MS. I really like the idea of making a pair of MS, one offensive and the other defensive. Again, this is why I took to Katoki's stuff early on as a far. There's just more logic there for me, though I do like how the aforementioned upgrades utilise stuff tested in these two. Plus Vayeate's weapon always looked like it'd been pinched from Ghostbusters.

The Une plot is just stupid and why I can't understand when I see people champion her. She keeps flip flopping all over the place and all because she wants to be whatever she thinks Treize desires. It'd be one thing if she was shown as a gentle woman who was trying to be strong (though that in of itself can be quite sexist) but this whole on/off switch thing, with the Saint persona doing stupid things as she tries to emulate Lalah....this is why I find Wing to be such a chore to watch.

[LightningCount]

The Une plot is just stupid and why I can't understand when I see people champion her. She keeps flip flopping all over the place and all because she wants to be whatever she thinks Treize desires. It'd be one thing if she was shown as a gentle woman who was trying to be strong (though that in of itself can be quite sexist) but this whole on/off switch thing, with the Saint persona doing stupid things as she tries to emulate Lalah....this is why I find Wing to be such a chore to watch.

There have been a few different points that I've shared with you recently in my experiences, but I'm not sure whether or not I agree with this.

What I got out of her character was she was so conflicted that she developed a split personality, for real. She agrees with Treize's goals, but finds it hard to execute them in the real world according to his pure philosophies, and so she's created a separate persona to do the dirty work that she thinks will get the results Treize wants, even when that's not always the case. It was a little strange, but not really illogical. Just my two cents.

[AmuroNT1]

The original plan for Une was that she was a naive country girl who believed whole-heartedly in Treize and believed in his ideals. I'm guessing that at least part of that was kept, and as LightningCount said they went with her developing split personalities as a result of her attempting to make him happy.

[HellCat]

I'm afraid it doesn't make it less annoying to me. In a series full of badly handled females, Une is at the top of the heap. The character's split personality angle doesn't work for me because of how they handle it.

[Dusk Raven]

I'm afraid it doesn't make it less annoying to me. In a series full of badly handled females, Une is at the top of the heap. The character's split personality angle doesn't work for me because of how they handle it.

After Stardust Memory I gave up trying to understand the actions of women in Gundam. Wing is no exception, with Relena and her "Heero! I'm right here so come and kill me!" line. Granted, Relena gets better later on...

Anyway, I'm rewatching this series with my dad, and in so doing I've got a new perspective and an old perspective. I'm only on ep 7, but still enjoying it so far.

[HellCat]

I find it really does vary. Gundam doesn't always have great females (how many female characters motivations come from their anger against men, rather than other reasons?) but Wing is quite far into the bad scale for me. Every female character latches onto a male(s) and devotes their actions to them. A great example is Sally. She could have been a strong character but after capturing Heero she becomes obsessed with him and the other pilots, running errands for them unprovoked and convinced that they totally need to put their faith into a group of 15 year olds.

Which ties into another complaint- I don't see what the Gundam pilots do that inspires such confidence in others. By this point they've screwed up more than they've helped anyone.

[Zeino]

I'd still take Wing's female cast over the ones from Zeta, Victory and AGE.

[LightningCount]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think we're taking things to extremes here about male vs. female characters, especially with Wing, where the women are more present, active, and in the story than in a majority of Gundam shows. Male or female, wanting to attach yourself to someone doesn't make you weak. It means an equivalent surrender if anything, and give and take. Needing to be an independent bad@$$ 100% of the time to be considered a real character of either gender doesn't jive with the natural needs we all have in real life as human beings. In Wing, Heero would be DEAD in episode 3 if he didn't subconsciously admit to himself that he needs Relena--her human affection and interest that recognizes him as a human being, and later, in addition, what she stands for in terms of a peaceful future. He talks many times about how she's stronger than he is, and how he has to become stronger, but may not be able to because of his upbringing.

And as for people being moved by 15-year-olds. Two things. One, this is an anime series aimed at teens to sell toys. Give it some wiggle room. Two, in Wing's crazy world, seeing young people stand up on a large scale against the weight of the world, abandoned by their homes/backers in the colonies, and still striving, could inspire courage to see and fight for the bigger picture as "adults." If you've seen the Winter Olympics, the whole of Slovenia got behind Tina Maze, and she's a young skier who's also become a singer and model for the country ala Minmei in Macross. Young people can have an impact symbolically.

[HellCat]

The whole plot with the Winner family being labelled as dictators...I dunno. I can easily see that the show is trying to make the point that OZ's rulership is bad and is now polluting space as bad as they did back on Earth, but it just comes off as the people of the colonies being idiots who act alarmist just because. If you're doing a story about freedom fighters you need to make the common people worth saving in the eyes of the audience. Right now, I'm not feeling that. Heck, I'm still not fully sure what kind of long term plans the scientists had by altering Dekim's plan and instructing the pilots to go after fairly random targets. I think 00 did this kind of plot better, with the Gundam attacks having a two fold point and the revolution it caused partly being exploited by existing agendas (like AEU welcoming the Federation because alone they were the weakest power).

The first half of the episode also has some logic errors. Giving Trowa the power to blow up Mercurius makes sense but he's not quite consistent on playing his part. Even if they're alone, surely audio logs are monitored soon or later. He even outright brings up info he should have no way per his backstory to know, which Une just dismisses....because.

And of course, we get Quatre's 15 minutes of soul crushing endless grief insanity. Gundam Wing- sensitive treatment of mental issues.