Let's say a TV channel like Cartoon Network, Disney, or Nickelodeon decided to take a risk and release a Gundam Show to this generation of kids.
1. What show should they release?
2. Would any of the Gundam shows that we have appeal to this generation or would they have to make a new series.
3. When should they show it?
4. How should they Market it?
I'm not hoping and dreaming or anything like that. I just figured it would be something fun to talk about.
Gundam For the New Generation
Gundam For the New Generation
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
00.NastyNate wrote:Let's say a TV channel like Cartoon Network, Disney, or Nickelodeon decided to take a risk and release a Gundam Show to this generation of kids.
1. What show should they release?
Shouldn't this question have been first? Anyway, yes.2. Would any of the Gundam shows that we have appeal to this generation or would they have to make a new series.
The Toonami block, preferably as early as they can fit it in the lineup.3. When should they show it?
Make a good trailer for it and through the lineup commercials.4. How should they Market it?
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
In order for Gundam to be successful in the States, I feel like merchandise would have to be the big push. Back with Gundam W and G Gundam were on the air I could walk into any Walmart, Target, Walgreens, et cetera and pick up an MSIA figure or model kit. In order for Gundam to get back to the level it was in the early 2000s (which honestly may not be achievable) that needs to happen; otherwise Gundam will just be another anime that's on TV for a few months (like Gundam 00). While some anime (such as Cowboy Bebop) have the kind of appeal to keep it on TV for years at a time with little merchandise, Gundam isn't that way; much of the appeal is the toys and models.
So to answer your questions:
1) My answer would be Gundam 00 and Gundam AGE. They have newer animation and both could appeal to a target audience in different ways. In Japan, Gundam has a wide range of audiences, but of course mainly focuses on young boys. However, shows like Gundam 00 and even Gundam AGE aren't on the same maturity level as a "Western" cartoon for young boys. Even AGE starts off with the main character's mother covered in blood dying during a fire-backdropped battle. So the show needs to be marketed towards early- and mid-teens instead. Like I said before, what that means is selling merchandise to keep the show alive. Remember how much Dragon Ball merchandise was around when the show was airing heavily? That is what made the money and therefore kept the show running. Gundam 00 would have a similar target audience as Gundam W did before; both shows are similar in that aspect. Gundam AGE could be marketed for a slightly younger audience. From a merchandise perspective this could mean pushing figures more than models.
2) I don't think I'd care to see a Gundam show made outside of Sunrise. We already got a co-production of sorts with SD Gundam Force. And don't forget about G-Saviour. And I don't want to talk about how Doozy Bots could have turned out. I'd stick to dubbing for US TV.
3) The prime time for a show like Gundam is soon after middle school is out, which is around 4:00-ish in most places. Early morning and late night limit the viewership too much and don't cater to the toy buyers.
4) The shows need to be marketed around the merchandise, just as they are in Japan and just how they used to be in the US (remember these commercials?). Again, anime on TV does mediocre at best nowadays (with rare exception). Successful merchandising can change this if the products sell.
Another things that needs to happen in order for Gundam to be "mainstream" successful (again, if that could even be achieved): correct utilization of the Internet. There needs to be a big push for social media and streaming. Kids are all over this stuff and there needs to be a focus on that. It's no surprise that pirating anime creates a financial problem for companies trying to sell it. Allowing shows to be steamed with ads helps; allowing steaming via paid subscriptions such as Netflix and Hulu helps. But most of all what helps is...wait for it...merchandise. You can't download a Gundam model (well, not yet anyway...) or figure. So even pirates will end up buying the merchandise if they enjoy the show (likely the new MG Crossbone X2).
I'm sure we've all heard before that Gundam shows are just a toy commercial for Gunpla. While unfortunate in some ways, that statement couldn't be more true. Mobile Suit Gundam was canceled and only resurrected once Bandai took over the merchandising with their models (which were way more interesting to the target audience than Clover's poorly designed toys). Looking at Gundam "failures" in the past (V Gundam, Gundam X, Turn A Gundam), they all share one thing in common: they lack a lot of Gunpla compared to other series. And series that are considered major successes? They have tons of Gunpla on the market. That's the way that the Sunrise-Bandai relationship works. Sunrise draws things, Bandai sells pieces of plastic that resemble them, chumps like us buy these, and everyone's happy.
So to answer your questions:
1) My answer would be Gundam 00 and Gundam AGE. They have newer animation and both could appeal to a target audience in different ways. In Japan, Gundam has a wide range of audiences, but of course mainly focuses on young boys. However, shows like Gundam 00 and even Gundam AGE aren't on the same maturity level as a "Western" cartoon for young boys. Even AGE starts off with the main character's mother covered in blood dying during a fire-backdropped battle. So the show needs to be marketed towards early- and mid-teens instead. Like I said before, what that means is selling merchandise to keep the show alive. Remember how much Dragon Ball merchandise was around when the show was airing heavily? That is what made the money and therefore kept the show running. Gundam 00 would have a similar target audience as Gundam W did before; both shows are similar in that aspect. Gundam AGE could be marketed for a slightly younger audience. From a merchandise perspective this could mean pushing figures more than models.
2) I don't think I'd care to see a Gundam show made outside of Sunrise. We already got a co-production of sorts with SD Gundam Force. And don't forget about G-Saviour. And I don't want to talk about how Doozy Bots could have turned out. I'd stick to dubbing for US TV.
3) The prime time for a show like Gundam is soon after middle school is out, which is around 4:00-ish in most places. Early morning and late night limit the viewership too much and don't cater to the toy buyers.
4) The shows need to be marketed around the merchandise, just as they are in Japan and just how they used to be in the US (remember these commercials?). Again, anime on TV does mediocre at best nowadays (with rare exception). Successful merchandising can change this if the products sell.
Another things that needs to happen in order for Gundam to be "mainstream" successful (again, if that could even be achieved): correct utilization of the Internet. There needs to be a big push for social media and streaming. Kids are all over this stuff and there needs to be a focus on that. It's no surprise that pirating anime creates a financial problem for companies trying to sell it. Allowing shows to be steamed with ads helps; allowing steaming via paid subscriptions such as Netflix and Hulu helps. But most of all what helps is...wait for it...merchandise. You can't download a Gundam model (well, not yet anyway...) or figure. So even pirates will end up buying the merchandise if they enjoy the show (likely the new MG Crossbone X2).
I'm sure we've all heard before that Gundam shows are just a toy commercial for Gunpla. While unfortunate in some ways, that statement couldn't be more true. Mobile Suit Gundam was canceled and only resurrected once Bandai took over the merchandising with their models (which were way more interesting to the target audience than Clover's poorly designed toys). Looking at Gundam "failures" in the past (V Gundam, Gundam X, Turn A Gundam), they all share one thing in common: they lack a lot of Gunpla compared to other series. And series that are considered major successes? They have tons of Gunpla on the market. That's the way that the Sunrise-Bandai relationship works. Sunrise draws things, Bandai sells pieces of plastic that resemble them, chumps like us buy these, and everyone's happy.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
This is the sort of thing that usually gets brought up in one way or another in those threads on why Gundam didn't work out here... But we haven't had one of those in a while, so what the hell, here we go...
The best option would probably be some kind of new series... but that makes me think of how the last three Gundam series (Destiny, 00, and AGE) were all received by Gundam fans (Ie: Badly), so really, it would be pure speculation. Assuming this mythical new show is 'good', I guess anything would be possible...
Second, don't make crappy toys. That's kind of a dumb statment, but look at the junk that was the G Gundam MSiA line. No one really cared about Rising Gundam, nevermind the Mandala Gundam or some of the other weird things that were made and then sat on shelves collecting dust (And as someone who works in a toy store, you have no idea how much that kind of crap is hated. End of rant. ). Or look at the SEED line, which seemed like the stuff that didn't sell in Japan and was made up almost entirely of the gray deactive Gundams and the Buster Gundam. Or the SD Gundam Force toys, which were an odd mix of random things for the show and random SD kits from other shows . Wing's stuff sold well, it's partly why the show became as huge as it did, and IIRC the UC stuff (Which covered MSG, and the OVAs, and CCA, and had some overlap with Wing) did alright, so I guess a better way to describe this is just stick with some basic stuff, at least at first.
On a related tangent, remember that the biggest seller here wasn't model kits like Japan, it were those Mobile Suit in Action figures. There is a reason why they marketed them as "action figure model kits" over here. Sometimes hardcore fans like many of us here forget that fact. I know the MSiA line died some years ago, and I'm not sure if they ever replaced it with a similar product, but something like it is a base requirement for any possible success with the age group we've talked about.
Would all of this work? ...Probably not, even if everything is handled well. Gundam in North America has at best some minor nostalgia related to Wing and bad memories for everything else (From the shows themselves, to the toys, to whatever else, like video games, which had a really bad reputation...), if any memory at all with older viewers. To a younger generation, those issues probably aren't present, but there really isn't a way to get the older shows on TV, none of them will work for one reason or another and kids ain't gonna buy much from shows they haven't seen, so you'd have to rely on only new stuff and at that point, why even use the name Gundam?
You have to go with something kinda new, since the more casual fans always seem to be picky about watching shows with "old" animation. That said, of existing shows, SEED, Destiny, 00, and AGE are probably the best options (Gundam fanbase reactions and opinions not withstanding) of shows that either didn't get a TV airing in North America or got a mediocre airing (Which is probably a polite way of describing how SEED and 00 were aired ), with Gundam X somewhere behind them since it's a bit older (I don't think it's old enough to turn people away, like how MSG did in 2001, but that really is a guess on my part).NastyNate wrote:1. What show should they release?
That's like two different questions to me. My gut reaction is I don't think any of the shows I mentioned above, or any Gundam series that hasn't been released here, has much appeal to an American audience for one reason of another. At least, I don't see enough going for any of them to make them into hits like Wing (Which is a somewhat unique show, and 2000 was kind of a unique time, which is why Gundam worked in the first place, but that is a whole different subject...).NastyNate wrote:2. Would any of the Gundam shows that we have appeal to this generation or would they have to make a new series.
The best option would probably be some kind of new series... but that makes me think of how the last three Gundam series (Destiny, 00, and AGE) were all received by Gundam fans (Ie: Badly), so really, it would be pure speculation. Assuming this mythical new show is 'good', I guess anything would be possible...
If you are aiming for that preteen age group that was the target in Gundam's American heyday (So to speak) as you suggested, I think a daily timeslot similar to what Gundam had in the past (Which was 5 PM EST) would be the best option. After that, weekly with a decent timeslot (Afternoons, or evening, or even early in primetime) could work out, I think that's when shows like Clone Wars and others on CN have aired new episodes and done well with similar age groups. Really, it just can't be late night like the last two Gundam series to air (SEED and 00 both aired at, IIRC, 10 PM EST, if not later), or the current Toonami block, but it can't be too early while the kids are in school like RLZIII noted.NastyNate wrote:3. When should they show it?
First, market it at all. From my memory, Gundam Wing was really the only Gundam show to get heavy marketing, both ads for the show itself and it's toy line. Subsequent shows and product lines got just a fraction of the promotion time, if any on TV at all. MSG got a bit before its release, but everything that came after got basically nothing other than maybe one or two commercials for the show you'd see once or twice a week, if even that, and nothing for their products.NastyNate wrote:4. How should they Market it?
Second, don't make crappy toys. That's kind of a dumb statment, but look at the junk that was the G Gundam MSiA line. No one really cared about Rising Gundam, nevermind the Mandala Gundam or some of the other weird things that were made and then sat on shelves collecting dust (And as someone who works in a toy store, you have no idea how much that kind of crap is hated. End of rant. ). Or look at the SEED line, which seemed like the stuff that didn't sell in Japan and was made up almost entirely of the gray deactive Gundams and the Buster Gundam. Or the SD Gundam Force toys, which were an odd mix of random things for the show and random SD kits from other shows . Wing's stuff sold well, it's partly why the show became as huge as it did, and IIRC the UC stuff (Which covered MSG, and the OVAs, and CCA, and had some overlap with Wing) did alright, so I guess a better way to describe this is just stick with some basic stuff, at least at first.
On a related tangent, remember that the biggest seller here wasn't model kits like Japan, it were those Mobile Suit in Action figures. There is a reason why they marketed them as "action figure model kits" over here. Sometimes hardcore fans like many of us here forget that fact. I know the MSiA line died some years ago, and I'm not sure if they ever replaced it with a similar product, but something like it is a base requirement for any possible success with the age group we've talked about.
Would all of this work? ...Probably not, even if everything is handled well. Gundam in North America has at best some minor nostalgia related to Wing and bad memories for everything else (From the shows themselves, to the toys, to whatever else, like video games, which had a really bad reputation...), if any memory at all with older viewers. To a younger generation, those issues probably aren't present, but there really isn't a way to get the older shows on TV, none of them will work for one reason or another and kids ain't gonna buy much from shows they haven't seen, so you'd have to rely on only new stuff and at that point, why even use the name Gundam?
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
1. As I watched Gundam Age I constantly thought to myself whether or not that would appeal to todays kids here in the states. What is yals opinion?
2. I think they would have to make a new show with the current state of kids. They'd have to use animation like gundam age but make it even more cartoony I think. What do you think?
I also think they'de need to make a show that has stand alone episodes. How would Gundam hold up if it had a few arching stories but for the most part the episodes would stand alone?
*. I think Gundam Wing was like that. I could watch it at any episode and kind of know what was going on. The plot was that simple I think.
2. I think they would have to make a new show with the current state of kids. They'd have to use animation like gundam age but make it even more cartoony I think. What do you think?
I also think they'de need to make a show that has stand alone episodes. How would Gundam hold up if it had a few arching stories but for the most part the episodes would stand alone?
*. I think Gundam Wing was like that. I could watch it at any episode and kind of know what was going on. The plot was that simple I think.
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
You shut your filthy mouth! Rising Gundam was a great figure and far better than some of the junk they made toys out of.mcred23 wrote:No one really cared about Rising Gundam
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Since I totally forgot to address merchandising in my first post, I'll do it here.
Sunrise/Bandai should not attempt to bring toys/models to the mass market. Kids these days aren't into toys as much as previous generations, plus the price of toys has basically pushed them out of reach for most kids. Toys are basically collector's items now, so putting out a lot of those will just result in lost money.
What they should focus on are games, which pretty much everyone can play in some form or another. The big problem is that they'll have to go multiplatform to get decent sales - every console/handheld game is going to need a PC port. With a lot of people jumping from consoles to PC in the new console cycle, plus the fact that the Vita hasn't done too well over here, Namco Bandai can't afford to ignore the fact that PC gamers are more willing to pick up some of the odder titles they keep pumping out (especially since Japan ignores the PC market). As long as they don't use Japanese prices and communicate clearly with fans, they can do some decent business.
As for making a new show, I don't really think that matters if Sunrise is going to keep the reins on the writers/director as tight as they have been. Doing the usual "angsty teen gets into robot, gets involved in a war" plot probably isn't going to go over well with American audiences, mostly because we don't link angstiness to being badass. If they do the "America/the West = jerks, not!Japan = saviors of the world thing," kids in those areas are going to be turned off, because no one likes to be considered the villain, especially when the shows go to out of their way to do it. Then there's the over the top "pacifism is best, no matter how stupid it might be in context" message, which will most American kids will just ignore thanks to all sorts of media that show the opposite.
I don't think continuity is a problem for kids unless the show goes on odd hiatuses and is aired out of order. In fact, all you really need to make sure people don't get lost is ditching the pointless repetitive narrations and replacing them with "Previously on _____ Gundam" recaps.
Sunrise/Bandai should not attempt to bring toys/models to the mass market. Kids these days aren't into toys as much as previous generations, plus the price of toys has basically pushed them out of reach for most kids. Toys are basically collector's items now, so putting out a lot of those will just result in lost money.
What they should focus on are games, which pretty much everyone can play in some form or another. The big problem is that they'll have to go multiplatform to get decent sales - every console/handheld game is going to need a PC port. With a lot of people jumping from consoles to PC in the new console cycle, plus the fact that the Vita hasn't done too well over here, Namco Bandai can't afford to ignore the fact that PC gamers are more willing to pick up some of the odder titles they keep pumping out (especially since Japan ignores the PC market). As long as they don't use Japanese prices and communicate clearly with fans, they can do some decent business.
I don't think AGE would appeal too much to kids in the US because it looks like it was made to appeal to kids and is really patronizing. Kids aren't stupid - they like a well made show as much as everyone else does. Not making it look kiddy would be a good start in getting kids to watch it.NastyNate wrote:1. As I watched Gundam Age I constantly thought to myself whether or not that would appeal to todays kids here in the states. What is yals opinion?
2. I think they would have to make a new show with the current state of kids. They'd have to use animation like gundam age but make it even more cartoony I think. What do you think?
As for making a new show, I don't really think that matters if Sunrise is going to keep the reins on the writers/director as tight as they have been. Doing the usual "angsty teen gets into robot, gets involved in a war" plot probably isn't going to go over well with American audiences, mostly because we don't link angstiness to being badass. If they do the "America/the West = jerks, not!Japan = saviors of the world thing," kids in those areas are going to be turned off, because no one likes to be considered the villain, especially when the shows go to out of their way to do it. Then there's the over the top "pacifism is best, no matter how stupid it might be in context" message, which will most American kids will just ignore thanks to all sorts of media that show the opposite.
Isn't how Gundam usually is, just with lots of character continuity?I also think they'de need to make a show that has stand alone episodes. How would Gundam hold up if it had a few arching stories but for the most part the episodes would stand alone?
*. I think Gundam Wing was like that. I could watch it at any episode and kind of know what was going on. The plot was that simple I think.
I don't think continuity is a problem for kids unless the show goes on odd hiatuses and is aired out of order. In fact, all you really need to make sure people don't get lost is ditching the pointless repetitive narrations and replacing them with "Previously on _____ Gundam" recaps.
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
i should think if you really want to get Gundam to succeed in North America, you should give up on trying to get them to watch anything older than a decade.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Does anyone think that American Kids would be interested in the boy and girl crush in a gundam show. Kind of like Emily in Age and that whole thing. Wing never focused on relationships. Maybe that's what made kids like it?
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
No, but that's because romance should be a tertiary element of a work at best. Few things benefit from having romance be the one of the major elements from the beginning.NastyNate wrote:Does anyone think that American Kids would be interested in the boy and girl crush in a gundam show. Kind of like Emily in Age and that whole thing. Wing never focused on relationships. Maybe that's what made kids like it?
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
My retort: SDF Macross.bullethead wrote:No, but that's because romance should be a tertiary element of a work at best. Few things benefit from having romance be the one of the major elements from the beginning.NastyNate wrote:Does anyone think that American Kids would be interested in the boy and girl crush in a gundam show. Kind of like Emily in Age and that whole thing. Wing never focused on relationships. Maybe that's what made kids like it?
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
If they want Gundam to try to work for a new generation, they would have to tailor make it to that generation in the target nation.
Like it was mentioned before skip bringing over the kits, and old style action figures. While I would love to walk into a local store and purchase my Gundam kits again, I just know it won't happen. The one thing they could do, is something like that Skylanders videogame (or whatever it's called) where buying the figures would let you play them in the game, just cause I know that stuff sold like hot cakes to kids between 7-11 in the last year.
However, they would have to develop a series to catch kids attention, while making it simple to digest. Age seemed to have ADD when it came to the pacing, and the character switches/age progression wouldn't work with a younger audience at all. For something that would work here, you'd have to cut out character deaths, and human targeted violence on display, and that would be just to get past the Mom factor. Next you would need to tailor the layout and to have it work for kids you would need a "creature of the week" style episode layout. Now they could do a few cliffhanger episodes at the end of a season that were all tied together, but that would be the limit. Each episode should be the start, middle, and conclusion so they can be mixed together with no problem. (I point to the 90's Power Rangers phenomenon as an example here, or the average weekly episode of pokemon).
Beyond that, you need commercialization. How many Yugioh! (sp?) commercials has everyone seen? I personally have never watched a single episode, but I know I have seen the commercials a few thousand times. If you want to make it a success, kids have to know when, and where it will play. A good example of lack of information was CN's handling of Seed after the death of Toonami. They moved it to 5am Saturday morning, and no one knew. I personally had video taped every episode of Seed until then while waiting for the DVDs to come out, only to fall completely behind, and miss several episodes before finding out. You just can't do that. But yeah, just some thoughts based on successful marketing ploys that have played out before.
Like it was mentioned before skip bringing over the kits, and old style action figures. While I would love to walk into a local store and purchase my Gundam kits again, I just know it won't happen. The one thing they could do, is something like that Skylanders videogame (or whatever it's called) where buying the figures would let you play them in the game, just cause I know that stuff sold like hot cakes to kids between 7-11 in the last year.
However, they would have to develop a series to catch kids attention, while making it simple to digest. Age seemed to have ADD when it came to the pacing, and the character switches/age progression wouldn't work with a younger audience at all. For something that would work here, you'd have to cut out character deaths, and human targeted violence on display, and that would be just to get past the Mom factor. Next you would need to tailor the layout and to have it work for kids you would need a "creature of the week" style episode layout. Now they could do a few cliffhanger episodes at the end of a season that were all tied together, but that would be the limit. Each episode should be the start, middle, and conclusion so they can be mixed together with no problem. (I point to the 90's Power Rangers phenomenon as an example here, or the average weekly episode of pokemon).
Beyond that, you need commercialization. How many Yugioh! (sp?) commercials has everyone seen? I personally have never watched a single episode, but I know I have seen the commercials a few thousand times. If you want to make it a success, kids have to know when, and where it will play. A good example of lack of information was CN's handling of Seed after the death of Toonami. They moved it to 5am Saturday morning, and no one knew. I personally had video taped every episode of Seed until then while waiting for the DVDs to come out, only to fall completely behind, and miss several episodes before finding out. You just can't do that. But yeah, just some thoughts based on successful marketing ploys that have played out before.
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
I don't know about that. ALOT of the stuff in SDGF is a reuse from the higher days of SD Gundam, just repackaged for an American audience who wouldn't be familiar with it. Unless I've missed something, the whole 'American co-production' idea seems to just be a defense thrown out by fans who don't like how different it is. In particular I have a hard time believing anyone from BEI thought Bellwood was a good idea.RLZIII wrote: 2) I don't think I'd care to see a Gundam show made outside of Sunrise. We already got a co-production of sorts with SD Gundam Force. And don't forget about G-Saviour. And I don't want to talk about how Doozy Bots could have turned out. I'd stick to dubbing for US TV.
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
I'd have to dig a little deeper to find info about the series being co-produced in the US, but it did in fact air in the US. While it is possible that the co-production is a fan fact instead of reality, it is clear that the show had a heavy focus on the US market. Even though Gundam was slowing down in the States by the time that it hit the air it seems like SD Gundam Force was supposed to ride off the success of Gundam W and get younger kids into the franchise.HellCat wrote:I don't know about that. ALOT of the stuff in SDGF is a reuse from the higher days of SD Gundam, just repackaged for an American audience who wouldn't be familiar with it. Unless I've missed something, the whole 'American co-production' idea seems to just be a defense thrown out by fans who don't like how different it is. In particular I have a hard time believing anyone from BEI thought Bellwood was a good idea.RLZIII wrote: 2) I don't think I'd care to see a Gundam show made outside of Sunrise. We already got a co-production of sorts with SD Gundam Force. And don't forget about G-Saviour. And I don't want to talk about how Doozy Bots could have turned out. I'd stick to dubbing for US TV.
Of course it is possible that a US-made Gundam would still be a good show. Like others have said it would have to be specifically catered to the US market and many things would have to be made; however, if that were the case, would it still be Gundam? What advantage would Sunrise have to release that? I'd say the goal would be to eventually bring over the other series for an aging audience after getting them into the US-made series...but most of Gundam has already been brought over to the States. So I just don't see how that would help the US Gundam market. Why use the Gundam name in that instance? Like other anime that has been successful, I think that Gundam could have a bit of success in the US again and target a niche audience if the marketing is done correctly (among other things that would have to be done just right). However, it will never be as popular as US cartoons (just as other anime aren't); but I could still see money in it.
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Yes, as long as the changes are confined to how the core themes/elements of the franchise are executed (see that old thread where people complained about Gundam tropes to see why those need to be changed). If they go changing the message from "war is bad, but sometimes necessary" to "war is good and should happen all the time," then yeah, they've missed the point.RLZIII wrote:Of course it is possible that a US-made Gundam would still be a good show. Like others have said it would have to be specifically catered to the US market and many things would have to be made; however, if that were the case, would it still be Gundam?
It's one step closer to getting back their 2000s Toonami-era foothold in the US market and getting that foreign acclaim they seem desperate to get. Also, a Gundam show made specifically for the US would be a pretty good way to apologize to long-time Gundam fans for the gross incompetence in handling the franchise over here. There's no better way to garner goodwill from people than admitting you messed up, plus it would actually expose people to the franchise, unlike airing 00 on AniMondays, for example.What advantage would Sunrise have to release that? I'd say the goal would be to eventually bring over the other series for an aging audience after getting them into the US-made series...but most of Gundam has already been brought over to the States. So I just don't see how that would help the US Gundam market.
Because brand recognition (no matter how weak it would be) and my earlier point about how you only need the core themes/elements of the show (not how they're executed) to make the show be Gundam. As for popularity, that's not all that important compared to how much money they can make off of the merchandise (although high ratings would make it easier to get another Gundam show on the air).Why use the Gundam name in that instance? Like other anime that has been successful, I think that Gundam could have a bit of success in the US again and target a niche audience if the marketing is done correctly (among other things that would have to be done just right). However, it will never be as popular as US cartoons (just as other anime aren't); but I could still see money in it.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
I wouldn't dispute the fact it aired in the US (indeed it premiered there) nor that it was certainly made with the US in mind (UC had failed and the DBZ similarities in G were clearly why it was chosen next). But nothing I've seen or heard makes me believe the idea it was 'America does a Gundam' and that this is simply Sunrise going down a diminishing list of ways to crack America. My own view is that they basically dug up the Doozy Bots concept and retooled it, since by then the American market had been introduced to Gundam and they wanted a show they could in turn air in Japan. People forget that Sunrise has had dealings with the American market in other ways and based on reports from the time Doozy Bots was their own thing they dreamt up hoping to snag US buyers. With the 'serious' Gundam failing to take off and even the more whimsical G basically failing, it's easy to assume how something like SDGF could have been decided on.RLZIII wrote:I'd have to dig a little deeper to find info about the series being co-produced in the US, but it did in fact air in the US. While it is possible that the co-production is a fan fact instead of reality, it is clear that the show had a heavy focus on the US market. Even though Gundam was slowing down in the States by the time that it hit the air it seems like SD Gundam Force was supposed to ride off the success of Gundam W and get younger kids into the franchise.HellCat wrote:I don't know about that. ALOT of the stuff in SDGF is a reuse from the higher days of SD Gundam, just repackaged for an American audience who wouldn't be familiar with it. Unless I've missed something, the whole 'American co-production' idea seems to just be a defense thrown out by fans who don't like how different it is. In particular I have a hard time believing anyone from BEI thought Bellwood was a good idea.RLZIII wrote: 2) I don't think I'd care to see a Gundam show made outside of Sunrise. We already got a co-production of sorts with SD Gundam Force. And don't forget about G-Saviour. And I don't want to talk about how Doozy Bots could have turned out. I'd stick to dubbing for US TV.
Though if anyone has anything more concrete, please feel free to correct me.
Gundam AGEs Forum- Three destinies will form discussion.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
I don't know about other people's experiences, but I for one found it impossible to get my friends to watch Gundam when it aired. They were young at the time, and other than my one Asian buddy, they thought it was too violent and didn't like it. (The very reason I drooled over it)
I loved MSG when it premiered and wanted more shows like it. And from then I never went back to Wing and actually disliked G Gundam, at least until Master Asia and the Devil Gundam showed its ugly head.
When SDGF aired, I took it as a parody and laughed at times, but for the most part wanted something basically like Zeta which I wouldn't see or hear of until years later. I could not complain however, because my friends were actually willing to watch SDGF and enjoy it. From then they were more willing to listen to me when I preached the glories of 8th MS team and MSG, even Wing.
And in all of this I never even knew SEED was airing at all, to further condemn SEED's poor handling. I remember being in a Media Play and seeing a poster for the Strike. I thought it was awesome, but other than the poor, poor Astray blue and red frame and Freedom Gunpla in a local Target, I never saw hide nor hair of SEED or when it aired. I watched CN on Saturday mornings, but never got a single commercial telling me to tune in at five in the morning until, well this forum actually, a decade too late. I'm not surprised that the fandom dried up, it was more or less like taking fish out of water and expecting them not just to breathe, but thrive.
But that's all in the past now. Frankly I see no way for Gundam to reenter the Western market. And frankly, Bullethead's worries of its theme changing to something more American like, "War is good, but even better with giant robots" attitude would not be appreciated. And as far as intended audience, my brother in law has more love for mecha than his son. Most of the people I come into contact with who like giant robots are in their thirties and saw Transformers in their gullible youth. People my age, they shrug their shoulders and say that they blatantly wouldn't watch it because its giant robots. Some also have a poor view of anime in general, and wouldn't watch any form of it.
So in all this, I gotta say the idea of Gundam returning in the West is simply a dream gone with the wind. If someone daring enough in Hollywood decided to create a full-fledged live action movie for Gundam, I can see the people in my sphere going to see it. But whether it would open the floodgates for Gundam or permanently seal them shut is a big, risky IF IMHO.
I loved MSG when it premiered and wanted more shows like it. And from then I never went back to Wing and actually disliked G Gundam, at least until Master Asia and the Devil Gundam showed its ugly head.
When SDGF aired, I took it as a parody and laughed at times, but for the most part wanted something basically like Zeta which I wouldn't see or hear of until years later. I could not complain however, because my friends were actually willing to watch SDGF and enjoy it. From then they were more willing to listen to me when I preached the glories of 8th MS team and MSG, even Wing.
And in all of this I never even knew SEED was airing at all, to further condemn SEED's poor handling. I remember being in a Media Play and seeing a poster for the Strike. I thought it was awesome, but other than the poor, poor Astray blue and red frame and Freedom Gunpla in a local Target, I never saw hide nor hair of SEED or when it aired. I watched CN on Saturday mornings, but never got a single commercial telling me to tune in at five in the morning until, well this forum actually, a decade too late. I'm not surprised that the fandom dried up, it was more or less like taking fish out of water and expecting them not just to breathe, but thrive.
But that's all in the past now. Frankly I see no way for Gundam to reenter the Western market. And frankly, Bullethead's worries of its theme changing to something more American like, "War is good, but even better with giant robots" attitude would not be appreciated. And as far as intended audience, my brother in law has more love for mecha than his son. Most of the people I come into contact with who like giant robots are in their thirties and saw Transformers in their gullible youth. People my age, they shrug their shoulders and say that they blatantly wouldn't watch it because its giant robots. Some also have a poor view of anime in general, and wouldn't watch any form of it.
So in all this, I gotta say the idea of Gundam returning in the West is simply a dream gone with the wind. If someone daring enough in Hollywood decided to create a full-fledged live action movie for Gundam, I can see the people in my sphere going to see it. But whether it would open the floodgates for Gundam or permanently seal them shut is a big, risky IF IMHO.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Does the US TV/movie scene really have a "war is good" mentality? I've always thought of it as being "war is bad, but focus on surviving and leave talks of peace after winning the war, if at all" mentality.
The ultimate goal should be to produce future Gundam shows that would be successful both in Japan and outside of Japan.
As you said, most of Gundam has been brought over, so forget about the old shows, especially those that haven't been brought over.RLZIII wrote:Of course it is possible that a US-made Gundam would still be a good show. Like others have said it would have to be specifically catered to the US market and many things would have to be made; however, if that were the case, would it still be Gundam? What advantage would Sunrise have to release that? I'd say the goal would be to eventually bring over the other series for an aging audience after getting them into the US-made series...but most of Gundam has already been brought over to the States. So I just don't see how that would help the US Gundam market. Why use the Gundam name in that instance?
The ultimate goal should be to produce future Gundam shows that would be successful both in Japan and outside of Japan.
- bullethead
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Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Not really, outside of a few crazy/propaganda works from back in the day.monster wrote:Does the US TV/movie scene really have a "war is good" mentality? I've always thought of it as being "war is bad, but focus on surviving and leave talks of peace after winning the war, if at all" mentality.
Edit: On second thought, there's a strain of media that can seem pro-war, the "we know unofficially that war is coming/happening, let's just make it official and get it over with" school of stuff (Star Trek into Darkness is one of the latest examples). I don't really count that as "pro-war" because these things usually involve heavy-handed "war is bad" stuff meant to make the people who just want to get the war over with look bad, despite the fact that diplomacy rarely works in these kinds of films.
Re: Gundam For the New Generation
Ultimately my opinion is that the American take on Gundam could be anyone's guess. There's just no telling what they might decide to do. Heck, knowing Gundam's luck out here, I wouldn't be surprised this hypothetical producer wasn't a big SEED fanatic who decides to spread Lacus' songs of peace throughout the US. *Shudder* Thank heaven this is just an idle nightmare never to leave this forum.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.