"Jaburo isn't the target!"

[domtropen]

That's kinda funny. Wish they have such jokes when discussing about offing their dad

Guess he got a bit too much credit from his IQ for a guy who believed their troops were doing well when they basically died about as quickly as their enemies.

[BrentD15]

That's kinda funny. Wish they have such jokes when discussing about offing their dad

Yeah, but then Gihren said "That's enough with the jokes," and Kycillia obliged with a bullet through his fat ego.

[Tangerine]

Underestimate or looking down at other is a flaw commonly possessed by more intelligent people. Gihren is the same. He even underestimate his own sister. a big mistake that is.

[domtropen]

Wondering is it official that Gihren knows about the fed's Solar System before the battle of Solomon as depicted in some mangas etc?

[doghunter1]

Is this profile of Delaz from page 74 of Gundam Character Bible translated correctly:

"Born into a family of space merchants who delegated between the various colonies many goods, Aiguille's father settled on Side 3, marrying an immigrant woman from the German/Polish border (within the old Prussian borders). With family contacts, their businesses on Side 3 thrived, allowing them to become members of Side 3's upper echelon of society. Young Aiguille was the second of soon to be six children, though his older sibling was stillborn. Being the 'big brother' of so many children is what is likely gave him his commanding authority and a knack for leadership. Joining Zeon's self-defense forces on his 18th birthday, Delaz was a military men for the rest of his life.

Though never marrying, many potential suitors were sent by his family. Though the various affairs lasted anywhere from a few months to the longest being two years, he never took a wife. While never a strong believer in Zeon Zum Deikun's ideals of a potential newtype evolution, he was strongly for Zeon's independence from the increasingly stubborn Earth Federation. On a personal level, he hated the Earth Federation for inadvertently causing the death of his youngest brother and father when a Federation warship fired on their shipping vessel. Upon meeting Gihren Zabi for the first time, Delaz was enraptured by Gihren's charisma.

He embraced Gihren's ideas of spacenoid supremacy and conquest, a philosophy he would attempt to instill into all he commanded. While a Colonel at the end of the One Year War, he self-promoted himself to Vice Admiral in the years following the OYW, as a sign of leadership and to subdue potential rivals for his control of the fledgling force known collectively as the Delaz Fleet. Ultimately, he was betrayed by his personal guard to Cima Garahau, who intended to give Delaz to the Earth Federation. Though in a fit of rage, she shot him through the temple upon saying the words 'Sieg Zeon'."

[Wingnut]

While a Colonel at the end of the One Year War, he self-promoted himself to Vice Admiral in the years following the OYW, as a sign of leadership and to subdue potential rivals for his control of the fledgling force known collectively as the Delaz Fleet.

This however contradicts the animation which shows him as an Admrial during A Bou A Qu at the beginning of episode 1.

[Deacon Blues]

Where does it show him as an Admiral? If you're going by the insignia on his collar then you are mistaken. The collar tag in the animation is for 大佐 (captain). It's the two dots and three lines. The Vice Admiral one is two dots, a single line followed by a double line beneath it. I'll upload a pic later.

[Cybaster]

However, in pure speculation, with Gihren's 240 IQ(or 250, whatever, this is unrealistic anyway)
He might have something grand in mind, some genius tactics that us, mere normal humans with IQs possibly not exceeding 200(I only have an IQ of 150, pretty common number, well within standard 25% deviation and much lower than Gihren, or Einstein) just like Kycillia, cannot understand.
This might be a tactics that no one even thought of, and even with this many military fans talking about it cannot figure out(IQ240 is, after all, genius of geniuses, one of a kind, legendarily smart)

Or it can be a bluff of Zeon's propaganda and Gihren is really just an idiot.

That might be more plausible than we think --- Could Gihren be using Palpatine's Battle of Endor strategy and attempting to use the Dolos unprotected as bait to lure the remainder of the EFSF Mobile Suits in? IIRC on Gundam: the Ride, after all, there's apparently a second Solar Ray hidden inside A Bao A Qu...

Maybe Kycilia had interrupted Gihren at a crucial moment before Gihren could fire it and complete the trap.

...

And back on the original topic, the simplest explanation I can come up with is that, along with inspiring Spacenoids to continue fighting for their independence, Delaz is also thinking of such a struggle in a long-term war that can take years to overthrow the Earth Federation's hold on space. As Zeta, ZZ, CCA and even Unicorn demonstrated, the main strength of the Earth Federation isn't exactly in the competency of their pilots or machines, but in their persistent ability to overwhelm their enemies with sheer force of attrition and resources (Delaz probably was aware even before he started that any Spacenoid war of independence would be a lost cause before it began unless that sore point was addressed). Take out Jaburo, and the Earth Federation could always just rebuild a new base elsewhere and replenish their numbers; Wreck havoc with the Earth Federation's food supply or even Earth's climate directly, on the other hand...

(As an aside, that's also most likely why it was so imperative that the White Dingo Team stopped Astaroth at all costs in Rise From the Ashes: Because the Earth Federation knew it couldn't afford to let Zeon starve them into collapse by destroying their ability to grow food, if not Earth's ecology itself, which was the entire purpose of Zeon developing the Astaroth biological agent in the first place.)

[zetatype]

Take out Jaburo, and the Earth Federation could always just rebuild a new base elsewhere and replenish their numbers; Wreck havoc with the Earth Federation's food supply or even Earth's climate directly, on the other hand...

(As an aside, that's also most likely why it was so imperative that the White Dingo Team stopped Azathoth at all costs in Rise From the Ashes: Because the Earth Federation knew it couldn't afford to let Zeon starve them into collapse by destroying their ability to grow food, if not Earth's ecology itself, which was the entire purpose of Zeon developing the Azathoth biological agent in the first place.)

But wasn't the Earth already heavily dependent on the colonies for food by this point?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that by the time the OYW rolled around the earth was already getting of its food from the colonies because pollution greatly diminished the amount of land suitable for growing crops.

And didn't Full Frontal mention in episode 6 of Unicorn that Earth relies heavily on trade with the colonies in order to survive?

[latenlazy]

Take out Jaburo, and the Earth Federation could always just rebuild a new base elsewhere and replenish their numbers; Wreck havoc with the Earth Federation's food supply or even Earth's climate directly, on the other hand...

(As an aside, that's also most likely why it was so imperative that the White Dingo Team stopped Azathoth at all costs in Rise From the Ashes: Because the Earth Federation knew it couldn't afford to let Zeon starve them into collapse by destroying their ability to grow food, if not Earth's ecology itself, which was the entire purpose of Zeon developing the Azathoth biological agent in the first place.)

But wasn't the Earth already heavily dependent on the colonies for food by this point?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that by the time the OYW rolled around the earth was already getting of its food from the colonies because pollution greatly diminished the amount of land suitable for growing crops.

And didn't Full Frontal mention in episode 6 of Unicorn that Earth relies heavily on trade with the colonies in order to survive?

Keep in mind that by Operation Stardust only one colony had been dropped on Earth. By 0096, the Earth had experienced two more colony drops (Stardust being one of them) and Char had dropped 5th Luna. What ever environmental degradation the Earth must've experienced from Operation British, it was far worse by the time Full Frontal talks about the Earth's dependence on the colonies.

[Zeonista]

While a Colonel at the end of the One Year War, he self-promoted himself to Vice Admiral in the years following the OYW, as a sign of leadership and to subdue potential rivals for his control of the fledgling force known collectively as the Delaz Fleet.

This however contradicts the animation which shows him as an Admrial during A Bou A Qu at the beginning of episode 1.

Delaz was a taisa in the Aboawaku opening, as shown by his uniform insignia. Since he was in the ZMF navy, taisa would be read as "captain", which would make him captain & commanding officer of the battleship. Now what a mere captain would be doing leading a fleet in a major battle remains to be explained. "There are no admirals in Zeon!" Aboawaku itself was enough of a clusterfuck to cover many possibilities, and as a flagship's captain, Delaz would have the seniority in rank to take operational command if needed. That is of course what happened when he ordered his fleet out of the battle, escaping what looked to be a complete debacle in the making for Zeon. Today's battle was lost, but tomorrow's battles were yet to be fought....

Which of course leads to the question which started off this thread. There was obviously meant to be something of a last-minute surprise here for both the Federation and the viewers. Never a dull moment in Stardust Memory, even if things got a little hurried & hectic at times! A couple of early posters got it right. At no point in the story did Delaz or Gato ever say outright that they intended to strike at Jaburo, either with the GP-02 or the hijacked colony. The Federation military commanders thought of that from the first, and based their actions on preventing Operation British II. This let Delaz plan and execute Operation Stardust with the Federation's anticipated & predicted strategy a;ready laid out for him.

Then, in a perfect Zeon world Cima Garahau rediscovered her Spirit of Zeon (TM) and cooperated fully with the plan, and didn't take her 30sp from the Federation. The blindsided EFSF flailed around and was drawn out of position pursuing the hijacked colony to the Moon, the drop happened with minimal resistance and no uber-weapon in orbit to complicate things. Afterwards the combined Delaz-Cima fleets linked up with the Axis advance fleet and headed out to the Belt to wait for the Federation to lose control and things to get wild enough to enable the united Zeon fleet to return to Earth and overthrow the Federation & usher in the Zeon Age of Aquarius, etc.

Of course, in the anime, none of that happened, and Gato had to make a few final adjustments himself before going to Gundam Valhalla. The question does still remain, if not Jaburo, then where was the colony supposed to hit? The correct answer is that Delaz & Gato didn't really care where the colony impacted on Earth, it was enough the impact occurred somewhere, beyond the ability of the Federation military and the EUG government to conveniently explain away. The takeaway story of the event for the average citizen of the Earth Sphere was not to be "Zeon Remnant fleet attacks EFSF Grand Review, gets destroyed to last ship." Instead, it was "EFSF fails to stop Zeon Remnant fleet from dropping colony on Earth." The purpose of Operation Stardust was to wave the Zeon flag as loudly and proudly as possible, upsetting the consensus-style oligarchical EUG government. At the same time, it would supposedly inspire other Zeon factions and the disaffected space dwellers to supposedly rise up and overthrow the Federation rule of the Earth Sphere.

In the end, the whole thing was a Gundam-style Operation Tet, aimed at achieving a victory of willpower that would have an effect beyond the result of the battlefield. It's a lesson often lost on the push-button, calculated tonnage style of post-mechanized warfare practiced today and familiar to many of our members, especially those that play video games. The true, final victory belongs to the side that keeps pressing for victory, and in the end causes their enemy to admit defeat and go away, or surrender and come to terms. Losses in manpower and material can be made good in the time of peace, or simply directly compensated from the defeated enemy. Vae victis, baby. The blasting of the storied "amber waves of grain" was a frankly a bonus acore. It made Earth more dependent on the space dwellers, accelerating the process noted by Full Frontal. (Too many Chiefs on UC Earth, not enough productive Indians following the emigrations.) But that result alone was not enough to justify the costs of mounting Operation Stardust.

[Deacon Blues]

Aboawaku

What's that?

I thought we established that from Gato's line to Nina that Jaburo isn't the target was that it was to reign mass hysteria on the people and take out a suitable food supply on the North American continent? It's not that they didn't want to just fling the colony at the planet. Gato did intentional course corrections. Otherwise the blasted thing could've landed in the ocean for all we know.

[Zeonista]

Aboawaku

What's that?

Someone who must find the old ways easier to type. It keeps turning out that way. Now be polite to Uncle Zeo or I'll bean ya with this here Donkey Kong cartridge!

I thought we established that from Gato's line to Nina that Jaburo isn't the target was that it was to reign mass hysteria on the people and take out a suitable food supply on the North American continent? It's not that they didn't want to just fling the colony at the planet. Gato did intentional course corrections. Otherwise the blasted thing could've landed in the ocean for all we know.

Hmm, as latenlazy said (and I agree) a single colony drop by itself couldn't be depended on to wreak long-term havoc on the Earth in terms of diminishing the food supply. Sure, a landing in the middle of the Pacific Ocean might not make that much of a splash, except if it landed on dread R'lyeh. But then to put it in the ocean, why not do just that, have the colony land in the South Atlantic between Brazil & Africa & let the resulting tsunami wash Dakar out to sea? Display of Federation incompetence plus Zeon might plus a not-so-symbolic cleansing of the Federation, no?

Like I said, though, Delaz wanted the visuals more than the effect, so long as the colony hit and was witnessed to hit, Stardust was a success. The real goal of Operation Stardust was to jump-start the Zeon uprisings again, and sorely disabuse the Federation of its conceit that the present lack of Zabi family members able to dress themselves meant that the Zeon cause was finished. Zeon as an ideology was not tied to the Zabis, or Side 3, or Uncle Zeo's oddly spelled rock, or anything else except the wills of the people willing to make Contolism or Zeonism a success. That's why Gato told Nina she might be the only witness of the true purpose of Operation Stardust; the Federation was obsessed with the Jaburo strike, and with Delaz 7 Gato's deaths, Nina would be the only person who would know that Jaburo was never the target.

I will say though that a point of impact on land could still be prioritized, if only because the destruction would be more visible to people, and Gato could have made that adjustment since the colony had been hit with an unplanned WMD strike.

[Tangerine]

After all this long, can we at least agree that what Gato actually inputted is not the coordinate of a massive farmland in the NA?

Supporting arguments, official background data are interesting and issues in Unicorn stated by Full Frontal seemed to support the idea, but it seems like all this began to happen after the fact. Only after the colony did hit the farmland people from both sides began to understand that the Earth could be made inhospitable, not-supportive to human living simply from environmental side effect. Before the colony hit, everybody from both sides still thinks that Jaburo or other similar symbolic EF building (if any) is the key, despite the fact that it won't make any difference to the war as there is no war to begin with. Politically, Delaz's Op Stardust is just a renegade action bordering terrorism. There's no indication that even if everything moves as planned anyone or any faction will do something like starting the war against EF, even Axis however respectful or agreeable they are to Delaz is unlikely to throw their lot for his cause.

Op Stardust goal or goals remains elusive until official stated otherwise. Right now what the goals seemed to be most likely are something along the lines of "payback for humiliation, getting spacenoids dignity back, inspiring new generation into anti-EF", since Gato said verbatim that Jaburo is not the target.

[Zeonista]

Op Stardust goal or goals remains elusive until official stated otherwise. Right now what the goals seemed to be most likely are something along the lines of "payback for humiliation, getting spacenoids dignity back, inspiring new generation into anti-EF", since Gato said verbatim that Jaburo is not the target.

That is a succinct summary of the issue at this point.

[doghunter1]

"There are no admirals in Zeon!"

What makes you say that?

[Zeonista]

"There are no admirals in Zeon!"

What makes you say that?

That was a joke based on General Reville's famous statement.