Official After War Gundam X Thread

[Amion]

I swear when I saw Gundam Strike for the first time, what lights up in my head is: Dang it, Bandai is refreshing X design with modern flavor

When I saw the Strike packs, I immediately commented: X that can turn into "Airmaster and Leopard" depending on the backpack

I was hoping to see renewed Virsago design, but no such luck...

I'm glad I didn't think that upon seeing the Strike. Because then I would have done the same thing and been disappointed. I swear, that Virsago is still my no. 1 Gundam design. Unless the Queen Mantha counts (it doesn't though). I just loved its overall appearance, combining the Epyon with the Altron. At least it appears a lot in Gunpla Battle. Even...if it dies right away each time...

[Mythgarr]

I like Virsago too, but not as much as I love Airmaster and X.
And I hope that when Bandai actually make MG Leopard, It would use the bulky proportion of the HG 1/100, and not like the one depicted in the cover of MG X

[HellCat]

So after finishing Wing I admit I cheated a little and went STRAIGHT to the first episode of X instead of Endless Waltz.

I'm a baaaaaad widdle boi!

I have to admit I never finished X. Back in the day I got to see the first several episodes but for.....obvious reasons couldn't go any further. So I'm really looking forward to this.

There's alot of MSG homaging in the first episode. All the AUs have done some thus far but this is the most bold I think, what with X and NOT Zeong having a similar face off and of course the later X's activation being near exact to the famous Gundam Rising. It seems a tiny bit forced but of course at this point I'm sure existing fans were happy for the bone being thrown to UC.

I enjoy Garrod for being a neo-Judau. After how dry I found the Wing cast it's really welcome to jump into a cast that actually feels human. Speaking of the Judau factor, that cockpit wackiness is totally a nod to early ZZ. This is where this drawn out mess of a pet project really starts to bare fruit.

I like the concepts of the 3 Gundams and indeed the whole idea they're hand me downs from a failed war rather than fresh off the line models. The whole setting for After War is one I've always appreciated for how bold it is with shaking things up and putting Earth in the worst place possible.

[LightningCount]

After how dry I found the Wing cast it's really welcome to jump into a cast that actually feels human.

You've probably heard me say this before, but i actually think of Gundam X as Gundam Wing's brother or cousin. While Gundam X definitely gets inspiration from Universal Century, it seems more in tune with the overall spirit of Wing. GX's cast is very lovable, and while it gives you their emotions more overtly than Wing, their ragtag sense of independence/competence and "cool" abilities are probably the closest to Gundam Wing's cast. Garrod essentially using a flashbang and holding up a mobile suit with a pistol is just the sort of wild, over-the-top stunt the Wing pilots would pull. And then you've got the whole sneaking aboard the Freeden and then the jeep chased by Mobile Suits scene, which is that on-foot-type, variety of action material that is a signature of Wing, wherein the use of the characters as dynamic plot elements is as important as the use of the MS. (There will be more of these hijinks of gunfights, stunts, and sneaking around as it goes along). Heck, just look at the glasses-and-hat pilot of Episode 1, who's established through on-foot work as a civilian, but then also pilots an MS as a soldier; that's the sort of thing in character design and usage that you rarely see in UC, whereas it has an immediate parallel in Inspector Acht from Gundam Wing.

This prevalent, unconventional, and dynamic "attitude," combined with the character designs, costuming, the Gundam designs/their importance, the development and use of the Gundam pilots as individuals, and the behind-the-scenes political/business dealings gives GX a feel of a post-apocalyptic take on After Colony as much (or more) than UC. If you look a screenshots from the Estard Arc, and as you watch it, you really get the sense by that point that it and Gundam Wing are cut from the same cloth. Even before that, the intro of Shagia is totally Wing-style. I'm not saying they're not different, because they are, and each has their own strengths and weaknesses when compared, but I do feel they're closely linked. Even the opening songs have a Gundam Wing vibe.

All that said, yes, the After War world is very compelling on its own, and I lament the lost 10 episodes, and how they could have made the show even better. Aside from those cut episodes, I get the feeling at times that this show didn't get the same level of budget as its predecessor, Wing, which is also a shame; though, at times, it has animation equal to Wing or better, depending on the episode. Regardless, I usually feel that the AU period from G to Turn-A gave us more fully fleshed out, dynamic, and unique worlds than the AUs that followed. CE seems more married to UC than AW did, for instance--not that it was a bad thing, per say, but it sometimes saddled what they were trying to do.

Anyway, still really bummed that Gundam X didn't get a English dubbed release. Sunrise, make it happen! (At the very least, give us an official release!)

[HellCat]

There's certainly links between Wing and X and I'm one of those who thinks it would have been the perfect follow up in the West, containing enough of what made Wing popular while easing in more traditional/UC elements.

I like that the focus of the second episode is on how wrong the X's central weapon is. It of course had a purpose during the war against the colonies, but when used in the After War for just fighting MS....clear overkill.

I'd actually forgotten more of this episode then the first so alot of it was semi-fresh to me. They do a good job of world building with little things like the first enemy being killed and then her MS dragged away for salvage.

Voice reuse isn't unique in Gundam, but it's oddly amusing to hear George's VA back as Roby.

Putting Tiffa in the hand....I know it was a desperate bluff but I always wonder how MS do this and not at least make the person throw up a little.

[Amion]

Well I guess those manipulators are particularly sensitive. Since at this point it's been depicted enough that we might as well take it as such. I'd imagine this is one case where the animation in all the shows agree. Also it shows manipulators are very capable of killing people, so safeties were installed I guess to ensure it didn't happen by total accident.

And I wish you'd watched this earlier! It would have made me feel less lonely when I did.

[HellCat]

Look, it's taken me nearly 3 years to rewatch 17 years of Gundam so far. I'm-a going as fast as I can!

[Amion]

Hey, it took me five months to finish Orguss. And almost that long again to finish X myself.

[HellCat]

9 episodes in by this point. Slow as ever but there's been alot going on in life eating up my time.

I have to say that coming off of Wing the show is a breath of fresh air. I know it's very much inspired by the UC shows, but it just feels so much more sincere and engaging then Wing. Wing constantly felt like bluster, trying to seem more cool and important then it was. X, however, is a more sincere story about people and their relations. It kind of reminds me of the issue of 'Do you want Gundam to be about survival or utopia?'

I like the clever ideas in the battles, like summoning the microwave transmission into the lake. Again, another improvement over Wing where it just seemed to be the same tactics over and over again.

It's a real shame Sunrise didn't go with this before pushing the UC stuff. I think it could have been a big hit in the early 2000s.

[LightningCount]

9 episodes in by this point. Slow as ever but there's been alot going on in life eating up my time.

I have to say that coming off of Wing the show is a breath of fresh air. I know it's very much inspired by the UC shows, but it just feels so much more sincere and engaging then Wing. Wing constantly felt like bluster, trying to seem more cool and important then it was. X, however, is a more sincere story about people and their relations. It kind of reminds me of the issue of 'Do you want Gundam to be about survival or utopia?'

I like the clever ideas in the battles, like summoning the microwave transmission into the lake. Again, another improvement over Wing where it just seemed to be the same tactics over and over again.

It's a real shame Sunrise didn't go with this before pushing the UC stuff. I think it could have been a big hit in the early 2000s.

I'm a little confused by the question "survival" or "utopia." Do you mean the quest for a flawed but redeemable world vs. the quest to make a flawed world into a hopefully ideal world? That's the best I could parse it.

Anyway, I understand your sentiment, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think you're exaggerating with Wing just a bit. The "same" tactics? To name a few different tactics other than the implied cut-a-path-of-unstoppable-and-overt-destruction: Wu Fei snatched a space laser to take down a fleeing Taurus transport; Heero reprogrammed the Mobile Doll system to target Astro Suits to cover his escape from a colony; Duo used an invisible stealth mode to ambush an OZ search team for supply parts; Trowa infiltrated OZ as a MS labor pilot. (And it should be noted, that while both Wing and X have Gundams as something very special, Wing had them in a story role that was strategically meant to be often bombastic and upfront).

I detailed it in an earlier post in this thread, but I still think that despite their obvious differences, Gundam Wing and Gundam X have entwined spirits compared to most Gundam series.

Here's a question: You talked about the early 2000s. Fast-forward to today. Of any of the unreleased Gundam series before SEED, do you think that X would have the best shot at being noticed?

By the way, you're heading into a great story arc. There is a lot to love about Gundam X.

[HellCat]

I find Wing very guilty of what it's often criticised for, the whole 'enemies go into a blind panic and start shooting at the Gundams with no real plan'. I think there's a ton of moments in that show where the Gundams just stand there taking weapons fire until the given pilot decides to fight. This is the show where OZ decides to detonate Wing Zero in space to get rid of it and after the explosion settles the thing is commented to have not even been scratched.

I really did try to give it a chance when I watched it this time but for me it's dull and lifeless, full of too much posturing and trying to look important on all aspects. I frequently found myself getting distracted from the screen and I can see why this was the show that began and nearly ended my interest in Gundam. In fact, I'm genuinely glad Wing is an exception in the franchise as for my part most any other Gundam show is more enjoyable to watch. Wing is a chore for me because of how empty it feels.

Utopia or survival refers to the fact the franchise started with people simply trying to survive a vast war and then shifted to ending the war if not more often all human conflic forever more. I for one am tired of the increasing focus on the latter, partly because I feel it means a given Gundam show has to force non-workable answers. I respect how 00 did it but even that had to make massive leaps to get to such an end (at least twice the convient status quo change occurs between instalments). X, at this point at least, is going for the more traditional Gundam 'These people are trying to survive. Not only conflict but their own personal issues'. In contrast, I never found the cast of Wing to really feel human which is sad for a show which likes to preach about the importance of injecting humanity into life.

[LightningCount]

Hellcat: Fair enough. You make some good points. Gundam X wears its emotions more overtly on its sleeves, which makes it more accessible. It's a great show. The meticulous nature of its pacing bugged some people, and the payoff was slightly stunted by the sad fact that 10 episodes were cut out. Nevertheless, it gets across what it wants to in essence.

I still see a lot of connections to Wing, especially by the time the Estard Arc goes through. Wing has its shortcomings, but for me, I don't know that I'd ever have become as attracted to Gundam if it weren't for it. The fact that it asks so many philosophical and political questions, with such wounded characters, in a world and story with the scope of half (or all) of UC, made for a very fascinating and enthralling stage of exploration for me. Does it conclude with all the right answers? I think it's about the wandering journey, seeking purpose and survival in world of revolution more than anything; it offers one possibility among many in the end, but that isn't the whole package. Still, to each their own, and there's certainly no knock against anything or anyone in saying that. I was attracted to Gundam X because I felt it was a spiritual sequel to Wing, but like a Rorschach test, everyone will see different things, and enjoy them for their own reason. One hopes X will still come out someday with a dub! It easily has one of the best casts of characters in Gundam.

For me, shows like Wing and X, with their personality and ambitions, they rarely come around, and so they only get more credit with age.

[HellCat]

I find it hard to buy into Wing because the central conflict to me seems too forced. At the earliest stage the conflict is fine. The colonies wanted peace, Earth killed the man who could bring it and forced the colonies to be seperated. The Gundams come to Earth on a mission of revenge to strike against the oppressive government.

However, from there it gets stuck in this conga of the antagonists turning on each other in succession and the roadblock of the mobile dolls. You could possibly say the mobile dolls have gained importance now drones are actively used in war, but in Wing I find them to be something of a dead end for creating interest.

I use the word posturing alot when criticising Wing because to me it sums up the problem. I didn't view anyone on the show as really human, more far too much written characters who exist only to serve their role at any given time. It kind of dissapoints me that THIS was the one that became the big success when either side of it you've got more engaging and human casts in G and X. I think another way to sum it up is that G and X feel like they're trying to communicate something to their young audience while Wing feels like it's indulging them. Wing is the one after all where five teenage ragdolls run around saving the world as super spies who can beat up grown men like nobody's business.

X in contrast is quite clearly based on the UC shows, especially things like Garrod screwing up, feeling bad about it and running off because he thinks he can make it better and can't deal with how the adults plan to treat him. Part of me would call that out as lazy but even nearly 20 years on it's still something that young people (and those who were young once) can relate to. It also helps that there are actual adults this time round. I think anyone over 20 in Wing was automatically some ugly old guy who was in love with reviving the European artistocracy.

[Mythgarr]

It is good that looks like we will have another Garrod-like character in long form Gundam TV Series in G-Reco. Not many Garrods in the gundam world, we need more Garrods the bad-ass rouge-pilot-woman charmer

[HellCat]

Up to the late 20s now. Realised most of the show is 4 episode arcs so I've basically been watching an arc at a time.

The sea arc was a little silly but enjoyable but I'm happy with the two after it, focussing on the NEF and the arc I'm in the middle of where the crew get involved with the brewing war.

Both of these arcs are doing what Wing tried to do so much better. The EF leaders are clearly old men with old, twisted ideas but they're not as awkward as Romafellar were with their desire to literally turn the clock back. Speaking of, was the Frost's initial boss supposed to look like Ghiren?

I like that after establishing this is a ruined world where fighting to survive is the norm, we see that doesn't make the crew soldiers and as such some want no part of an actual war. It's nice in the increasing age of pilots who get too self righteous near the end to instead see this show had a more unique leading angle that makes the hang ups make alot more sense. Garrod messed up with the Sattelite Cannon before but he basically only fights in defence and so his desire to 'not repeat the mistake' makes sense and ties in perfectly to the earlier discussions about when power is right or wrong. I get the feeling by the end of this I'm going to be very dissapointed Japan didn't go for it at the time.

Starting the run of Garrod vs nutty aces in customs. Really liked the anorexic unit that jumps around. It reminded me partly of Jester Gundam (though some of that is how close the animation and sound editing for X is to its close siblings) and is a fairly unique MS idea.

[LightningCount]

...I'm in the middle of where the crew get involved with the brewing war.

Both of these arcs are doing what Wing tried to do so much better. The EF leaders are clearly old men with old, twisted ideas but they're not as awkward as Romafellar were with their desire to literally turn the clock back. Speaking of, was the Frost's initial boss supposed to look like Ghiren?

*That said, doesn't this part of the story remind you of Wing a little more than 0079? Can you see why I think they're sort of spiritual cousins (and/or in a separate Gundam family with G)?

*Aimzat Kartral didn't really strike me as Ghiren-like; though the other guy who helped Garroad get the Double X was clearly influenced by Ramba Ral.

I like that after establishing this is a ruined world where fighting to survive is the norm, we see that doesn't make the crew soldiers and as such some want no part of an actual war...

The story really does take a long time for its arcs to add up, and I think some people couldn't deal with that, but it is definitely pulling itself together at this point.

I get the feeling by the end of this I'm going to be very dissapointed Japan didn't go for it at the time.

By this, do you mean you'll lament the lost/cut 10 episodes?

Starting the run of Garrod vs nutty aces in customs. Really liked the anorexic unit that jumps around. It reminded me partly of Jester Gundam (though some of that is how close the animation and sound editing for X is to its close siblings) and is a fairly unique MS idea.

That MS is really cool, and these fights with the "card player" aces are arguably the best in the series. The skinny MS has a bit of a proto-Flag feel to it.

[AmuroNT1]

Both of these arcs are doing what Wing tried to do so much better. The EF leaders are clearly old men with old, twisted ideas but they're not as awkward as Romafellar were with their desire to literally turn the clock back.

I never really understood the critique that Romefeller was trying to "turn back the clock" as you put it - that wasn't their motivation at all. Is it just because of the fancy old-style uniforms? Because that was kind of part of Wing's aesthetic on the whole and not just limited to them. Romefeller wanted to take over because, in their own minds, they were simply a better sort of people than the common rabble and deserved to be in charge.

[HellCat]

It's the same kind of silliness that means the Britanian nobility in Geass are still dressing and acting like it's the 1800s. There's something to be said for using uniforms and trappings to cultivate an image and mindset (I'm still amused it's the crippled season 2 CB that suddenly coughs up funding for uniforms) but OZ and it's backers are very much stuck in a terribly outdated view of things. They're financing MS but just about everything else about them is centuries out of date. Heck, F91 did the space age aristocracy thing without feeling like relics.

"Great, Barry. You spent our entire stock budget on the costumes from that latest period blockbuster. Who is gonna wanna buy these?"
"I heard Duke Dermail was going clothes shopping"
"....I'm sorry for doubting you"

[LightningCount]

Sometimes anachronisms provide texture and a more earthy quality to future-based but fictional shows. We assume the future will continue to progress linearly, but we honestly have no idea what sorts of changes could occur to change views on customs, dress, etc. I never had a problem with Romefeller's dress, and found it rather appealing in the way it created a visual contrast between old and new. Also, quaint or not, it played off the longitudinal view over the philosophical debates on humans, warfare, and technology throughout history in Wing. And, even today you have people who, say, pine for the ideals of the Revolutionary War in the US and take up that form of dress for special occasions of protest and/or celebration. The basic seeds for such things are plausible enough.

If it was a visual "problem" for Wing, I don't see why it's not a visual problem for Gundam X, with Prince Willis and the whole of Estard, not to mention Lancerow and the SRA--all of which seemed to have some aesthetic and/or traditional/idealistic views inspired by the previous series' Romefeller and company. (And as you say, F91 played this card as well, and is likely one of the inspirations for Wing to have done so).

All that said, every viewer will have their preferences and/or tolerances for such curiosities/quirks, and I respect that. As you said, 00 added the uniforms in S2, and that for me was a bit jarring, personally, considering CB were more "on-the-run" and needing to blend in more than they ever were in Season 1, when they wore plain clothes. Plus, it took away some of the more earthy qualities of that series visually for me, making it feel a bit more distant and space-age.

[HellCat]

Romefeller for me feel like a very Japanese response to wanting something exotic and cool, which the director has stated was basically the constant mission statement for Wing. Just like stories in the West throw in stuff like ninjas and zen philosophy for that, Asia in turn pulls from American and European sources (given history, I'm personally a little disturbed how much love they have for Germany in particular).

The thing is that what is exotic and mysterious to one culture isn't going to be so for a culture closer to the one being drawn upon. Romefeller and OZ are these very old European styles of dress and ideals about nobility and knights. To me, it comes off as quite daft.

Other Gundam shows might have similar elements but to me I never felt to such a daft extent. Zeon are space Nazis because the staff were directly drawing connections and because they're an isolated colony cluster with the Zabis trying to force everyone to think the same and give them icons to be proud of. This gets expanded in ZZ when we learn Haman has brainwashed the new generation with nonsense about being knights of Zeon and indeed it runs close to real life dictatorships. We even see this in X itself, with Lancecrow admitting he receives pointless decoration purely to serve as a symbol of his leader's need to promote Spacenoid/Newtype supremacy.

Romefeller....it just feels more like if a big name American arms dealer conducted all meetings dressed in full Confederate Army cosplay or something.