Gundam Protagonist you Consider the Best

[schwarz ritter]

This goes on the vein of "favorite" threads, which are essentially prohibited here in Mecha Talk (with good reason). That is why it is imperative you give a detailed explanation of why (even if it takes three posts to do so, as long as you obviously don't triple-post).

Hopefully, it won't get locked. If it is, well...I suck.

[Wingnut]

Also of great ambigiuty is what technically qualifies as being "The Best". Combat performance record? Personality? (Which is highly subjective as to what people like in a protag.) Outlook on fighting?
I could go on for a while on this, but I don't think I need to.

[schwarz ritter]

To be honest, you can use whatever criteria you wish, as long as you explain it, of course. Whether its any of the stuff you just mentioned, or everything combined, its your choice.

[Andrew_Graruru]

I really like how the protagonists of Gundam Age are written. They are each competent in their own way, while still being flawed (Fritos's bloodlust for the Vegans, Asemu comparing himself to his father) They also don't rely on newtype on psychic-magic to accomplish their goals like a lot of UC heroes do, it mostly comes down to their actions. I'm also a fan of how they made Asemu specifically not an X-rounder, just a very proficient, normal human-being.

Personally, I never really understood why combat ability was factored into a characters appeal. It's not like its hard for a writer to decide to make their character some amazing ace-pilot.

[schwarz ritter]

Personally, I never really understood why combat ability was factored into a characters appeal. It's not like its hard for a writer to decide to make their character some amazing ace-pilot.

Finally, Andrew! I was waiting for you. You truly are, besides the mods, one of the few mecha fans that has common sense. Besides, crappy pilots suddenly turn good whenever the plot demands it.

I personally think Garrod Ran is the best Gundam protagonist: he isn't a preach-ZOINKS like Banagher, a wangsty-anger ridden idiot like Shinn, a Messiah-complex ridden Kira, or complacient with how the world is like Amuro (although I am an Amuro fanboy myself). I mean, on another thread, ShadowCell defined him perfectly with the following quote:

"I don't believe in God"
*Garrod is succesfull as usual*
"Tiffa, I believe in God!"

He believes in the future: he isn't dragged down by the present like certain other protagonists, or by the past like others; he just wants a future for him, Tiffa and his friends to live in peacefully, while giving that same, "happy" future to the rest of mankind. Very messiah-like, sure, but he isn't annoying like Kira (who is one of those who is dragged down by the present). Besides, he's charming and you like him instantly.

Here is another image that defindes him: http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae27 ... rodRan.jpg

He's manly enough to be respected, but not to the point of annoying (like that Marcenas ZOINKS).

I went off the rails on this, didn't I?

[DuelGundam2099]

Gundam 00's Alleluia because he is two people in one: One good, one bad. Everyone else is too "normal", 'nough said.

[Fritz Ashlyn]

They also don't rely on newtype on psychic-magic to accomplish their goals like a lot of UC heroes do, it mostly comes down to their actions.

I simply do not understand why people complain about "newtype magic" when talking about a UC show. Do people watch Star Wars and complain about the Jedi using their "BS Force magic powers"? The existence of newtypes is a cornerstone of UC stories about mankind's future in space, and yet some fans deem it necessary to whine about newtypes doing newtype things. The crux of the argument I seem to see repeated over and over is "the Biosensor is a thing that exists and I do not care for it". Of course, several other things can be plugged in where "Biosensor" is in that sentence.

On top of that, it's incredibly mendacious to attempt to reduce the actions of newtype protagonists to some sort of mental sorcery as though they just throw their hands up and press the spectral win button to get things done as a fallback. Magic didn't win the One Year War. Magic didn't capture and fire Gryps II. Magic certainly didn't save the Frontier Side.

But Fritz, magic stopped Axis! The collective will of dozens of pilots (most of them oldtypes), amplified by the psychoframe, allowed humanity to step back from the metaphorical ledge in Char's Counterattack and it makes for a wonderful, powerful scene. If you don't like that sort of thing, then I certainly can't tell you your opinion is WRONG, but it's a principal aspect of UC stories. Newtype magic certainly didn't help Char achieve his goals, and neither he nor Amuro survived.

Edit: Also, the answer is Apolly.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

They also don't rely on newtype on psychic-magic to accomplish their goals like a lot of UC heroes do, it mostly comes down to their actions.

I'm pretty sure that if it weren't for "Newtype hax" Flit wouldn't have become half the pilot he is and if it weren't for Kio's hax, they wouldn't have oh-so-conviently found that last time bomb before it blew.

[schwarz ritter]

Newtype Hax is more like "Newtype Plot Hax": its Plot Armor, Plot Convenience. That's it. As much as I would like to like the concept of Newtypes, I think its full of fail and gives crap characters like Banagher the spot light. There aren't enough characters like Kou or Shiro, people with whom we can actually relate to because they are "normal" (in quotes because nobody that's really normal would pull off the stuff they did).

So yeah, X-Rounders, Newtypes, Innovators, and what-not, really defeat Gundam's supposed purpose of "showing the horror of war" and stuff. I dunno, its just my opinion...

[ShadowCell]

Gundam's purpose was never simply "showing the horror of war."

arguably, Newtypes and their assorted expies strengthen it even further, since they lead to things like Amuro and Lalah's fate, which makes explicit the pointless tragedy of war.

[schwarz ritter]

Yes, but all of those pointless real-life war tragedies in Bosnia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, South America and Southeast Asia don't end up in Newtype hax moments, now do they?

[Fritz Ashlyn]

Newtype Hax is more like "Newtype Plot Hax": its Plot Armor, Plot Convenience. That's it. As much as I would like to like the concept of Newtypes, I think its full of fail and gives crap characters like Banagher the spot light. There aren't enough characters like Kou or Shiro, people with whom we can actually relate to because they are "normal" (in quotes because nobody that's really normal would pull off the stuff they did).

So yeah, X-Rounders, Newtypes, Innovators, and what-not, really defeat Gundam's supposed purpose of "showing the horror of war" and stuff. I dunno, its just my opinion...

Yeah, I know what you're saying. It was awesome and really let me relate to Kou the way he died halfway through 0083 because he had no plot armor whatsoever. I mean, I can totally see myself at the controls of a 60 foot tall death machine like Shiro, but ESP? Pfft. Not me, brother. Total immersion-breaker.

I hate to overreact like that, but come on. Do you get angry at the "Run, Luke, run!" moment on the Death Star? If a dead space wizard hadn't told the main character to get the hell out he would have died. That's plot convenience. It's how fiction works.

Again, if you don't like newtypes that's fine. But don't fault Gundam shows with "extra-normal" humans as though they do things 99% of fiction doesn't. Main characters tend to not die and they can do things most people can't, brain powers or not. Besides, Amuro got into the cockpit of a military robot and had to crack open the manual. That's something I can identify with.

Yes, but all of those pointless tragedies in Bosnia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, South America and Southeast Asia don't end up in Newtype hax moments, now do they?

This borders on being a non-statement. Tragedy happens in every Gundam series. Did newtype magic destroy part of Australia or kill half of humanity?

[schwarz ritter]

I have no problems whatsoever with what you say: frankly, I get your point. At least Amuro's Plot Armor and Newtype Hax didn't seem so forced (except in CCA, which was epic in some ways).
But okay, seems I finally understood what you mean.

Can we go back to topic now? I don't want this to be locked yet.

[ShadowCell]

it's perfectly on topic, since dismissing certain characters for "Newtype hax" is rather relevant to Gundam's main characters

[schwarz ritter]

Okay then. Speaking of, which one's the "best" for you? (On your parameters, my friend. The criteria is at your will).

[lgcsc]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate here, since he's far from being my favorite protagonist over all of gundam, but I would say that that Shinn is the most compelling seed protagonist (although Sven is much better developed), due to the way that he tries to take control over his emotions and ultimately his life which was (since he fails at it...) by joining the military, even though it clearly wasn't the brightest idea.

My favourite character would be Uso Evin, due to his subtle and layered characterization, genuine intelligence (and being a bookworm, makes him easy to relate to), impressive resourcefulness, genuine bravery (as in feeling fear but overcoming it), unusual amount of kindness that translates into pacifism, which even though he has to limit it (since he hasn't the writer on his side) remains despite all odds. Sure, there is also his amazing fighting skill (particularly in terms of his brilliant tactics) but to me the most amazing thing about him is the the sheer strength of character that allowed him to remain sane throughout the war without even snapping once (something I certainly wouldn't have been able to do).

P.S. Does anyone have Gundam Ace's records on the protagonists kill counts? Since I've heard that Amuro had like 150 mobile suit kills just from the one year war, but I can't find that information posted anywhere

[JulieYBM]

I suppose it would be rather typical to say Amuro, but Hell, I do think he's the best. Ignoring piloting skills, I think as a protagonist that the viewer is supposed to identify with, Amuro fits the role like a glove. His character growth has become a rather typical arc amongst heroes in Japanese war animated series' (if it wasn't already), but I feel few have properly gleamed the best parts of the outcome of said character arc as he: a "shut up and get things done" attitude. Amuro grew past whining about things out of his control or fighting he didn't want to do and became an actual soldier. Kamille, Judau, and Kira (as the other Gundamjack kids) didn't quite fit into this role as much as Amuro eventually did (although Kamille more so than the others, but with how he faded into the background in ZZ it's sort of hard to say much about him). Amuro really shaped up to be a leader, both as a man and an officer, which I've found to be very endearing and most interesting when comparing the different protagonists. Shiro comes close, I think, he even he had his moments where he came off as being a little over his head as a leader. Amuro did have Bright to pick up the slack for him, though, so I suppose that should factor in, too.

[schwarz ritter]

Interesting choice, Jacob.

[Kuruni]

Gundam-san's Char-san.

Because he has his custom red enema, with freaking horn sticking out, and actually used it! It's super badass that nobody else dare to do .

[schwarz ritter]

LOL Kuruni, you couldn't have said it better

But I still think Char is a pedo.