Gundam Protagonist you Consider the Best

[Kratos]

I will concede that Kamille is a really good character, writing-wise, but I think I find him one of the most utterly unlikable protagonists in just about anything. Seriously. Can't stand the kid. I know characters don't have to be likable to be well-written, but still.

[schwarz ritter]

I take back everything I've said about Banagher: Riddhe is my new hatedom target (devious smile).

Kamille is so annoying, so over the top, I can't take him seriously at times. Sometimes, he seems like some sort of parody, lol. However, he is still well-written, but he's still highly unlikeable to the point of parody, lol.

[zetatype]

Voice of dissent time!

Obvious tho it may be, I'm going with Heero Yuy. The character arc he goes through (especially if you count Episode Zero) really demonstrates the horrors of warfare that are a core element of Gundam and how one can overcome them. He's a damn skilled pilot and soldier, but because he's kindhearted deep down he suffers through the fact that his "job" brings nothing but pain and suffering. At the start of the show he's become very self-loathing because of this, even if you don't include the little girl from EW. It's the very definition of "necessary evil"; people have to die for anything to get better, and he really doesn't like that. The major turning point is his interacting with people like Relena and the Gundam Pilots who think of him as something other than a murderous monster, which causes him to slowly start opening up. On top of that, he realizes that he doesn't have to be a killer, since he can use his skills to protect Relena and those like her who want to end the cycle of warfare and really make the world a better place.

While Heero Yui isn't a contender for my favorite I really did like how over the course of the show bits of his humanity resurfaced . I like how it EW this point comes full circle during his battle with Wufie when he says "how many more people must we kill....how many more times must I kill that girl and her dog".

In regards to what Fritz was saying early on, I personally am not a fan of "Newtype hax" because it often ends up being the only way anything gets accomplished in UC series. I think the Star Wars comparison is flawed, because Jedi are not the only people who get things done; mundanes like Han, Chewie, Lando, and the rest of the Rebels actually do the lion's share of the work, while all Luke does is deal with the opponents the Rebels can't, namely Vader and the Emperor.

But all too often, Newtypes are the main focus of the show and the only effective characters, much like SEED where Naturals might as well just be chimps in wigs for all they matter to the plot (which kind of hurts the anti-racism message). I'm really tired of the "classic" formula of a male civilian techie dweeb who falls into the cockpit of the Newest Gundam, stumbles around leaning on his emerging powers for a while, and then turns into a psychic god of war who can't be touched by mere mortals.

The only times I feel the "Newtype Hax" was the only way to accomplish something was in CCA and UC gundam episode 5(haven't seen ZZ). Otherwise, I'd say the jedi comparison is, for the most part, accurate. In MSG, while Amuro is obviously the best pilot, he is hardly the only one fighting. Hayato, Sayla, Kai managed to rack up an impressive amount of kills over the course of time and let's of course not forget Bright Noa. The Federation's victories at Odessa, Solomon and A Boaqu were hardly due solely to Amuro's efferts, you can even argue that the federation would have still won those battles without him.

In Zeta Gundam you have pilots like Emma, Roberto, and Apolly (I think that's his name) who were pretty good pilots and got things done as well. You also had Henken and of course Bright Noa. During the final battle at Gryps, it's not like Kamille single handedly took down the Titan fleet.

I'll admit SEED is one of the worst offenders when it comes to the "enhanced pilot" getting everything done, though to be fair Mu Laflaga manged to do quite a bit despite being just a fighter pilot and he even had to save Kira a couple times.

As for my favorite Protagonist... that's a tough one since I pretty much have something to like about all of them...well except Shin but that has more to do with the potential of his character wasted.

Banagher is shaping to be one of my favorite protagonists but I'll have to wait until the OVA finishes to cast my final judgement. Unfortunately, I haven't seen X or Turn A but if I did their protagonists would probably be top contenders for the spot based on what I've heard. In the end I'm gonna have to go with Amuro Ray and pretty much for the same reasons JacobYBM mentions (Yes that's being lazy but hey its 5:00am and I'm tired).

[Sinquser]

I will concede that Kamille is a really good character, writing-wise, but I think I find him one of the most utterly unlikable protagonists in just about anything. Seriously. Can't stand the kid. I know characters don't have to be likable to be well-written, but still.

In my case, I have soft spot for flawed characters and I become more interested when I see their characters develop despite their flaws (or sometimes even when they self-destructed without knowing because of said flaws). Kamille is just one of those that caught my interest right away, I don't even have to watch Zeta again to know I like him.

[InjuredPelican]

As much as love Garrod to death, I have to go with Loran Cehack. He's always so true to hismelf and to others. He tries lying about who he is and where his allegiance lies, but then he lets it all out as loud as possible, with no shame, so everyone will know. He fights to protect those he carse about, and he cares about nearly everybody. What a guy. While he has plenty of good development, I feel he is perhaps one of the wisest protagonist at the start. Sure he's an idealist, but he still acts very mature for his age, works hard, and loves his friends and life. And his skills with his Gundam continue to improve in a believable manner across the series. By the end, he's still bringing it with his two beam sabers alone.

[schwarz ritter]

This whole Newtype hax debate reminds of Karen Traviss. I'll leave you several links to related articles, forums and other crap see if you can use it to continue debating and stuff:

http://www.karentraviss.com/page10/file ... Jedi_.html
http://www.swtor.com/fr/community/showt ... ?p=3734346
http://www.forumforpages.com/facebook/s ... 80444094/0
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Karen_Traviss
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?469 ... ontroversy
http://joesherry.blogspot.mx/2009/08/ka ... -wars.html


Now gotta go to Lisbon to watch effing Prometheus. See ya next week.

[zetatype]

This whole Newtype hax debate reminds of Karen Traviss. I'll leave you several links to related articles, forums and other crap see if you can use it to continue debating and stuff:

http://www.karentraviss.com/page10/file ... Jedi_.html
http://www.swtor.com/fr/community/showt ... ?p=3734346
http://www.forumforpages.com/facebook/s ... 80444094/0
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Karen_Traviss
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?469 ... ontroversy
http://joesherry.blogspot.mx/2009/08/ka ... -wars.html


Now gotta go to Lisbon to watch effing Prometheus. See ya next week.

Well that was an interesting read though the two have very little in common, IMO.

The whole "Newtype Hax" discussion here seems to center around the fact that some people see newtypish powers as overpowered or cheap ways to resolve a conflict.

Karen Traviss' beef with the Jedi seems to center around the fact that she doesn't like how Jedi are portrayed as people who can do no moral wrong, especially when they had no qualms about using the clone army (some interpret his as using a slave race).

[Mu La Flaga]

For me here goes.
Garrod Ran for alot of the reason Dark Duel said earlier but to expand on that.
What does Garrod do when he encounters a newtype and looses he turns to Jamill for help and he learns how to do that.
Yet in the end he avoids killing Carris in battle, it wasn't what he wanted he just wanted to keep Tifa safe.

He is just an average guy with a high skill set for piloting MSes and even knowing their mechanics such as door hatches ect.


Runner ups are, Heero Yuy and Shinn Auska and Banagher, I will leave it at that.

[zerogradius]

For me its Amuro all the way. He started off as a bratty, whiny, angsty, emo teen and throughout the years transformed into a level headed, charasmatic figure, whose influence continued even after his death. I'm hoping that one day we will see a TV series or at least an OVA about his exploits during the First Neo Zeon War.

And for those who mentioned Heero, personally, I believe that his sometimes erratic behavior, suicidal tendancies, continuous threats to kill people that he never follows through on, and of course, the nonsense that went on between he and Relena for at least half of GW makes him pale in comparison to Amuro, Camille, Loran and Garrod.

[HellCat]

I tend to view Heero as being a prototype to Setsuna. Everything the writers thought they were giving us in Heero, Setsuna actually delivers. For one thing, Heero keeps saying he basically only fights because being given missions is a way of life. That's not really a driving goal. He shows a deep intellect but really there's not any real driving force behind him until Endless Waltz decides to add one. Even the idea of him being uneasy with what he's been molded into seems to vanish quickly after the first few episodes, replaced by this super spy who can leap out buildings and survive.

[Zeonista]

Hmm, the best one....as with the idealist/cynic thread, I shall have to award them by category than by picking a supreme #1.

UC: My choice for best is Camille Vidan, the Gundam pilot with a girl's name. His virtues have been cataloged already. so I will pass over them for brevity's sake. He is my select UC choice if only because he is the first Gundam protagonist I ever "clicked with", so to speak. For a runner-up it is Alfred Izuhara. Poor little Al-kun gets a lot of flack for being a military otaku in training, but he was such a mirror image of me at that age that my heart went out to him, all the more so because I knew his heart and mine would be broken by the end of the story.

General AU: Garrod Ran, definitely, since he is a junior swashbuckler, a rare thing in a Gundam protagonist!

CE: The joint award goes to the royalty of AU, Lacus Clyne and Kira Yamato all the way, even if they initially were Lin Minmei & Amuro Ray re-styled for 2001. I enjoyed watching Kira go from a clueless nerd to Gundam ace in the course of SEED, and Lacus proved herself to be more than a political-related idol singer. My love for them even survived GSD, since their roles and personalities were not re-written every other week like much of the other cast. The obvious SEED movie project would have been "Kira & Lacus and their friends" and then chase the pink haro all the way to the bank, but I guess that was too easy for Sunrise back then.

AD: All four of the original Celestial Being Gundam pilots as one ensemble, perhaps? They made an interesting group of rebels with a cause, with different reasons bringing them to CB, but still managing to work together, ans on some occasions even admitting they liked each other. Any of the four by themselves wouldn't have worked, but all four together made them interesting.

Regild: TBA

[Powerman293]

Setsuna. The guy goes from a closed off hard head to a much more open and receptive guy by the end.

[Kuruni]

Oi, you guys...did you take a look at thread's necromancer?

For myself, I think I will add Haro-man (again from Gundam-san)...he's too good protagonist, and despite has most depressing issue, he has no problem to cheer Amuro up with liveful voice.

[excalibur2008]

Karen Traviss' beef with the Jedi seems to center around the fact that she doesn't like how Jedi are portrayed as people who can do no moral wrong, especially when they had no qualms about using the clone army (some interpret his as using a slave race).

They get to be morally superior becuase the Republic has citizens who 1) can't even muster the balls to actually fight to save it which is why they have to use the Clones, 2) Don't give two craps about the Clones (Unlike the Jedi who according to the very canon 2008-2014 Clone Wars series actually do care about the Clones), 3) Sold out the people (aka both the Clones and Jedi) who saves their worthless asses for 3 years, tossed their democratic society the war was to protect away, and swore fealty to the evilest bastard in the Galaxy just on his say so becuase it was more convenient for them.

So yeah frak Karen Traviss' Madorlorian fetish.

[Jadfish]

Loran Cehack is one of my favorites

Throughout Turn A, he remains loyal to queen Diana even when it looks like that the moon race army is being hostile. He's also friendly and generally peaceful compared to a lot of other Gundam protags.

He also looked mad dope in a dress.

[Dark Duel]

Oh yes, indeed. Loran in drag was funny, not least because he not only looked convincing, but he really did look and sound like a woman.
Then Tieria came along, and it got really creepy. Like, Ra's Al-Ghul in that one episode of Batman Beyond creepy.

I really, really need to rewatch Turn-A, I haven't watched it in years. But I do remember it being one of the more enjoyable series, in large part because of Loran.
Though, overall, I still have to say I like Garrod more.

[Wellman]

Personally, it is a toss up between Domon and Setsuna.