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 Post subject: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

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From what I see, everyone hates on SD. I guess it has to do with SDGF?

SD was around way before that somewhat poor excuse of a series came out. Granted, I like SDGF, but it has its moments where it's just too bleh.

From the way I see it, there are two "SD"

SD MS Robots

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUmc0s9U5UI


SD MS Mecha

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feWtykQFkCM


There is a BIG difference. For one SD "Robots" are living, like a person. They get along, they eat, sleep, pal around with humans. They are about 5 feet tall, give or take.

SD "Mecha" are about the height of regular Gundams, except for their looks, they are identical. They are piloted. They do not live.

Me, I'm a fan of SD "Robots" more so than SD "Mecha". But if SDGF is you're reason for hating both, you're hating for the wrong reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Traitor Villain
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Moved to the Anime section...

That done, from what I've seen, it's mainly just a hate/dislike of SD Gundam Force's first season that was broadcast on Cartoon Network, rather than the SD works in general. That show was panned for all sorts of reasons, from the characters being viewed as annoying and generally unfunny, to the style not being well received, and that it was clearly aimed at a younger audience than most Gundam shows are (The only element of the show I recall regularly being praised were the Zako Soldiers and the Zako Zako Hour that ended a bunch of episodes).

However, from what I've seen over the years, most of the other SD works, such as the first couple of movies they did and some of the other works, were generally well liked by the people who've actually seen them. Also, IIRC, the second season of SDGF (Which didn't air on CN, but was released on DVD over here at some point later) got much better reviews than the first season. And at the same time, the SD Gundam games are very popular, so it's not like they're causing any negative feelings.

So yeah, it isn't SD in general being panned by people, but really, just that chunk of SD Gundam Force that got aired on TV...

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:26 am 
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Elitist Earth Politician
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As much as people don't like Superior Defender Gundam Force, it ain't Doozy Bots. God, I don't know anyone who liked that garbage. Some parts of Superior Defender 2nd half was pretty dark in some episodes especially involving the Lacroa Knights.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 am 
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Chalk me up for the group who actually kinda liked SDGF. Yeah, it was silly and kiddy and the characters were kind of annoying and all of those things, but it could get surprisingly deep for its intended audience, and I loved all of the little shout outs and references to past Gundam shows (and yes, I know that Lacroa and Ark are based on pre-existing design mindsets, but I only learned that because of this show). It was like, on one level, this is clearly a Gundam show for the kids. On another level, this is a show where they reference the history of the Gerbera Tetra, something that never got touched on in 0083 iirc. Oh, and "His name is Captain" is a very nice piece of music.

And I don't hate the rest of SD in general, it's just that plotless silly fluff rarely interests me. I can appreciate it for what it is: silly adaptations of much more serious stories. SDGF had a plot to help me keep my interest in it.

yazi88 wrote:
As much as people don't like Superior Defender Gundam Force, it ain't Doozy Bots. God, I don't know anyone who liked that garbage. Some parts of Superior Defender 2nd half was pretty dark in some episodes especially involving the Lacroa Knights.

Oh gods, the Doozy Bots. I'm still torn between which is worse, the Doozy Bots or Saban's attempted live-action adaptation of Sailor Moon that would have had a wheelchair-bound Senshi.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 am 
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OMG Doomsday Laser
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yazi88 wrote:
As much as people don't like Superior Defender Gundam Force, it ain't Doozy Bots. God, I don't know anyone who liked that garbage. Some parts of Superior Defender 2nd half was pretty dark in some episodes especially involving the Lacroa Knights.
It may not be no Doozy Bots, but SD Gundam Force got a season or 2, so I think one thing kind of outweights the other.
I am thankful Doozy Bots got killed way early in it's life.

Still SD Gundam Force really grated on me.
I mean I kind of tried to tolerate it but it was too hard, I know it's aimed at a younger audience.

The thing is sometimes there can be shows or anime aimed for younger audiences that can be more appealing.
I also think part of the problem where the voices for literally every single character.

An example of this would be a show like Digimon Digital Monsters 01 and 02 I would say as instant examples that spring to mind.

I feel I've unloaded my hate on SD Gundam Force with my limited experience(limited for a reason mind you)


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:19 am 
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I haven't seen Gundam Force, but I love SD in general. I've seen SD Gundam Gaiden, Sangokuden, and most of Ganso(original) SD Gundam.

I like how old SD Gundam parodied UC and let me have a laugh with my favourite characters, and despite all the horrific historical inaccuracies, Sangokuden was really entertaining. SD Gundam Mou Race was also a nice parody of the old Hanna Barbera cartoon The Wacky Races. Geek out!!

The Knight, Commando and Musha movie was rather bland though. Sad that's the only one I have an original copy of.

The best thing about SD Gundam is that it's not bound by the same expectations that come with being a non-SD series, so we get awesome and crazy ideas like Knight Gundam, Heavy Metal Gundam, Superior Dragon and Fuhrer Commander. You know they wouldn't be able to get away with that stuff in any of the other worlds except maybe G Gundam.

What the ZOINKS?! Captain Formula 91 and Fuhrer Commander can COMBINE and do a GaoGaiGar Hell and Heaven style attack?! What whacko Gundam series is this?! Love SD Gundam.

I think a part of the hate for SD Gundam is because some people don't want to be seen liking what they see as a kiddie show, which is somewhat ironic. Those who keep taking Gundam too seriously will probably not be able to appreciate SD Gundam. That being said though, it's true SD Gundam has no where near as deep a plot as many of the non-SD series. It's definitely not for everyone.

Scirrocco's Syrup anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:55 am 
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OMG Doomsday Laser
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For me, I've seen some of SD Gundam stuff and I didn't mind it parodying the stuff that happened.
SD Gundam Force to me is just on a different level of irritation.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:41 am 
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In my experience, it boils down to immaturity. Alot of the people who loathe SD Gundam hate it because it's not tales of war and chaos in the traditional Gundam sense and they somehow think if people learn that such a thing is connected to their super serious 'anime' then they'll be a laughing stock.

I, for one, love it. I'll willingly admit SDGF wasn't the best show (often too sugary sweet, as Neo-Era perfectly summed up in one of his comics) but overall it can be quite fun. There's actually a rather interesting continuity to it, complete with the semi-official notion that the SD world is an alternate path for Turn A where MS evolved, became sentient and shed their gigantic size to inherit a world left behind by the humans who wiped each other out. One Musha story for instance involves the idea of long abandoned space colonies drifting too close to Earth and crashing to the surface, which the robotic characters interpret as some form of black magic.

I can easily understand why more rational, less knee jerk folks would have an argument for disliking it but for me it's a nice little diversion when you want a Gundam story that generally avoids some of the heavier themes in favour of cool robots and deep character plots. Which is probably why Imagawa directly compared it to G Gundam.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Traitor Villain
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I honestly never really understood the hate SD Gundam Force got. I mean, yes, it's a kid's show, but why hate on a kid's show for being a kid's show? That's like hating on Sesame Street because it doesn't teach you about the cruel cold hand of a pitiless universe that will torture the joy and optimism out of you over the course of forty years of soul-crushing labor for faraway masters, leaving you a broken husk when/if you retire and spend the last years of your life struggling to regain the happiness that left you once puberty hit.

I mean, if it was a crappy kid's show, that's one thing, judging it by the standards of children's television, but so much of the hate I ever saw for that show was that it dared be both a Gundam show and be for kids. It sort of reminds me of AGE.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:08 pm 
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OMG Doomsday Laser
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Like I said, too many have this issue about Japanese animation being the mature, adult, hardcore stuff you can only find online because it's too mind blowing for the mainstream. Then along comes this happy go lucky show about kid-sized Gundams fighting off cartoony Zeons as an affectionate deviation. Horror! If people saw this, they'd think this is what their 'secret' shows are all about! NOOOO!

Twits *goes back to building the retro BB Senshi he ordered*

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:22 pm 
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To follow up on what ShadowCell said, consider the insane popularity of My Little Pony right now. It's unarguably a kids' show (and one aimed at young girls at that), and yet it has a substantial following among teens and young adults, with a significant portion being "bronies". I haven't seen it myself, but I've been told that the show has clever writing and doesn't take itself seriously. In that way it's kind of like Rocky and Bullwinkle, which was a kids' show but had lots of subtle jokes for the parents watching, which is part of the reason it's so popular.

I'm not saying SD Gundam Force was incredibly amazing, but at the same time I think people were put off by the weaker early episodes and gave up on it before it improved. And improve it did - Shute stopped being the annoying tag-along kid and actually contributed, CapGun stopped using that irritating catchphrase, and the writing quality went up in general. And of course, while it's a kids' show, what kid is going to get the innumerable references to classic Gundam? What kid would understand the meaning behind Professor Gerbera being a Gundam in disguise (AND being voiced by Akio "Gato" Ohtsuka, at that)?

Personally tho, I actually didn't care for most of the old SD stuff. All it really was was incomprehensible Japanese puns and toilet humor. The only of the classic shorts I really enjoyed was the Wacky Races parody.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Well, what struck me about the hate SD Gundam Force got was that it stuck out against all the love that the other SD cartoons get. Maybe it was just the Japanese puns and toilet humor, but, uh, either way it's a complete 180 from Gundam's usual lugubrious self.

I dunno, maybe there was some good old Japanophilia involved too.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:09 pm 
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As I recall, the fansubs for the older OVAs hit about a week before Cartoon Network premiered SDGF. This didn't help because it gave the haters a "See? This is TRUE SD Gundam, not that garbage!" argument. The problem is that what the fansubbers weren't providing (assuming they could even find them) was stuff like SD Gundam Gaiden and SD Sengokuden, long established parts of SD that SDGF directly draws from in terms of characters especially. There's a whole other Captain Gundam with the same original design and upgrade who has his own little career in the G-ARMS stories. Even things like Mt. Anaheim, the stage of the final battle against the Dark Axis, was a key locale in past SD Gundam stories. Seriously, SDGF barely taps some of the weirder ideas seen in SD stories and toys. A Doctor GM and a Nurse Ball driving an ambulance, anyone?

I'd fully agree that the writing could have been better to grab people's attention but it could have been worst. At least they filtered the scripts through a team of writers who know how to gently lampoon some of the more "Just because" moments of Japanese kids shows.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:57 pm 
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I actually enjoyed SD Gundam Force for what it was, though I was a kid when it aired. It was funny and nonsensical, and some of the characters and later parts were really cool. I still wouldn't want to watch it these days, and I can understand the hate for it, but like mcred23 said, most of the hate is just for that show (or at least the part that was shown on Toonami) rather than a hate for the entire SD part of the franchise.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Gundaminfo's YouTube have actually started adding the official dub that was done of Sangokuden a while back. It's a little cheesey (memories of the Transformers G1 dubs) but worth a look for those interested.

However, said uploads are getting comments complaining about Bandai 'wasting time' making another SD show. Some particular clods are raging about the fact that apparently money was 'wasted' on this instead of producing a dub of ZZ or V.

SDGF might get alot of the hate but it really seems some twits really do hate ANYTHING SD.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:08 pm 
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If people hate SD in general, I'd venture to guess that they're the "serious business" types who think anything drawn in a cute art style is automatically brainless, kiddy tripe and don't even bother giving it a chance. Just a guess, tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:46 pm 
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It's a guess that isn't too far off the mark, I'd wager; Just look at the massive amounts of hate AGE got before it came out because its character designs were "kiddy" compared to most of its predecessors.
Personally, SDGF I found interesting on its own merit, but it just wasn't my cup of tea; not saying it sucked or that I hated it - just wasn't my thing. The little "Zako" dudes were hilarious though; that I did like :P
I found the recent SD Gundam Sangokuden more entertaining, though even that I ended up dropping after a while - again, it was good in my opinion, but it wasn't my style.

It's like G-Saviour; On its own merit, it's not bad for what it is - a low-budget B-movie about a Gundam; but it gets massive amounts of hate because there are certain opinionated and highly vocal fans who have a specific definition/opinion of what Gundam MUST be, and G-Saviour ain't it. Neither are SDGF or SD Gundam Sangokuden.
I'll confess; first time I saw it, I was one of them. A few years later I watched it again, and while I didn't love it, I liked it for what it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:39 am 
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HellCat wrote:
Gundaminfo's YouTube have actually started adding the official dub that was done of Sangokuden a while back. It's a little cheesey (memories of the Transformers G1 dubs) but worth a look for those interested.

However, said uploads are getting comments complaining about Bandai 'wasting time' making another SD show. Some particular clods are raging about the fact that apparently money was 'wasted' on this instead of producing a dub of ZZ or V.

SDGF might get alot of the hate but it really seems some twits really do hate ANYTHING SD.


Which is a shame as well for SD Gundam Force was also perhaps not my cup of tea, I have no problem with SD Gundam myself. From reading the 4 komas as well as watching the SD Gundam shorts for 00, well I like to think of it as a way for the characters to let loose some of the tension after a long hard day at the office on their respective shows.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the hate for SD?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:35 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy

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Ooh! Didn't realise the dub of Sangokuden was on Gundaminfo. Gotta check it out. Thanks Hellcat!

I dunno about over in the US, but Sangokuden did really well around Asia. People who couldn't give a rat's ass about Gundam, Japan or anime were all talking about Sangokuden because it was so whacky having ancient Chinese warriors as cute robots.

Sangokuden not only was fun and a decent series, but it reached out to audiences the older series couldn't dream of ever getting close to. Haters can take that and suck it.


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