A question about Char's Counterattack.

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A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Shinigam_Newtype » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:21 am

So I'm watching CCA for like the 10th time now and something's just struck me;
Everybody is aware that Char is going to freeze the earth by dropping Luna II onto it(initially). To avoid this from happening, the EFF decide to sell him Axis...A MUCH BIGGER ASTEROID.
My question is; Did i miss something or are the EFF saying "We'll take that small asteroid of your hands and give you a much bigger one. By the way, Axis' nuclear reactors are fully operational"
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:29 am

I don't believe that Char was ever planning to drop Luna II. The asteroid in the very beginning of the movie is Fifth Luna, a different, much smaller asteroid. Luna II is actually the asteroid Juno, one of the largest in the solar system -- Axis is almost certainly smaller than it, though I don't recall ever seeing any size figures for Axis specifically.

In any case, what Char was doing prior to the Axis drop was targeted drops for local damage. He used 5th Luna to crater the Earth Federation capital in Lhasa, Tibet, for example. He didn't go for a planet-scale human extinction attack until he had Axis -- which he got by telling the Earth Federation that he's stop attacking once he had it. He also paid good money for it, which was important because the Earth Federation was having financial troubles at the time. (I believe there's a comment made that the money Char pays for Axis will be used to fund the Earth Federation's health care system.) Dumb? Probably, but not as out-and-out suicidal as you suggest.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Shinigam_Newtype » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:12 pm

That table talk must really have gone over my head, I thought the plan was that they had discussed at Sweetwater was;
Char would trade Luna II to the EFF and would subsequently disarm his forces their, while the EFF would watch, all the while Axis was ready for Char to obtain once he'd finished at Luna II. On the table tabling while discussing the terms of agreement, they have replica models for the asteroids and Axis is noticeably bigger, it's probably not to scale, but considering what the respective asteroids were used for, it would make more sense for Axis to dominate Luna in size.
Thinking about it now, Luna II originally belonged to the EFF so it would've been strange for Char to suddenly have control of it.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Shinji103 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:10 pm

Char never had control of Luna II before the talks with the Federation; the agreement he made with the Federation was that he'd send his fleet to the Federation-controlled Luna II to be disarmed in exchange for buying Axis. Instead, he sent part of his fleet to Luna II accompanied by dummy ships to make it look like he sent his whole fleet, making complete use of the Federation's complacency to launch a surprise attack and capture Luna II for the nuclear warheads stored there, which he stuck on the side of Axis aboard a Musai. (to maximize the damage caused by Axis I believe; Amuro then found and blew up the Musai with its nukes onboard during his duel with Char) Simultaneously with the Luna II operation, Char sent the rest of his fleet to take out the Federation forces guarding Axis.

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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by yazi88 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:57 pm

Luna II is also the Earth Federation's largest and probably the strongest base in space. Yes that rhyme was intentional.

It still remains a stronghold at Victory which no one, not even the Zanscare Empire had breached. I think, because IIRC the EF Fleet at the end of Victory was from Luna II, I could be wrong.

I do remember that reinforcements from Luna II were sent to Frontier colonies during F-91 although they were pretty much wiped out by the Rafflessia.

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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Wingnut » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:07 pm

yazi88 wrote:I do remember that reinforcements from Luna II were sent to Frontier colonies during F-91 although they were pretty much wiped out by the Rafflessia.
Actually the reinforcements came from Luna I as it is a heck of a lot closer to L1 then Luna II is way on the other side of the Earth Sphere at L2.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Sadly, the Federation didn't learn its lesson from Haman during the First Neo Zeon War (letting her have Side 3, thinking that that would satisfy her and let things die down).

The nukes were meant to maximize damage, but in terms of the radiation caused from the explosions to be spread all over the world from the undoubtedly world-changing collision via the strong winds that'd be generated from it and all. Similar to the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs essentially. If anything, the nukes were essential for Char's end plan of forcing mankind off of Earth. While Axis alone would've caused a ton of damage, it most likely still wouldn't have been enough to force everyone into space as mankind would still probably be able to rebuild after. But add in the radiation from the nukes that'd kill off plant life, contaminate water supplies, making places uninhabitable, and mass radiation sickness and resulting cancers (like a worldwide Chernobyl) and then people would have no choice but to get out of there as soon as possible and be unable to return for god-knows-how-long.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:21 pm

That's the theory behind putting the nukes inside Axis to drop it, but it's -- quite frankly -- pretty ridiculous. Even if there were several thousand nuclear warheads on Axis when it hit, they'd only be able to irradiate a tiny, tiny fraction of the planet. And given that the part they'd affect most would be completely annihilated by the Axis drop itself, adding nukes to the mix is more like the cherry on top than anything actually meaningful.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by vipergb34 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:16 pm

Radiation can be carryed by wind and water to other places I think.

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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by Dendrobium Stamen » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:36 pm

vipergb34 wrote:Radiation can be carryed by wind and water to other places I think.
It can; radiation from Chernobyl in 1986 reached the United Kingdom all the way from Ukraine, after all.

That said, while radiation from a shipload of atomic weapons could irradiate a few thousand square miles, depending on where Luna II hit (if it made a splash-landing it'd probably dampen the effect, no pun intended), it wouldn't be a globe-spanning effect as the film seems to imply was Char's intention.

Of course, Axis' engines are atomic themselves, which would contribute to the radiation spread; but enough? Probably not.
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by nacho-wan » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:25 pm

The radiation has to be a major component of Char's plan as it was in Crux Dogatie plan at the end of the first Crossbone manga (albeit without the asteroid).
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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by flamingtroll » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:49 pm

No one pointed out that by taking away the nukes, it reduces the ability of the EFF to divert Axis, although I am not sure if that was the only major stock pile of nukes for the Feds. Putting them into Axis is the most reasonable thing to do, and the possible nuclear fallout is just icing on the cake.

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Re: A question about Char's Counterattack.

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:43 am

Luna II is just one and the most convenient one. We still got the stockpile at Torrington, IIRC and probably others we don't know about. After all, keeping ALL your nukes in 1 single location is just asking for it to be targeted.
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