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 Post subject: My take on SDF Macross
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:07 am 
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AEUG Slapping Boy
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Well, thanks to the Gundamn trio(And a little push from Arbiter GUNDAM), I have just finished The Super Dimensional Fortress Macross. I found the premise of the show far more awesome than expected. I also found some unexpected similarities between it and other mecha, and surprisingly non-mecha shows, and I know now where those shows got their inspiration.

Battleship crashes to earth. Humanity finds it, uses the technology for themselves. Classic Sci-fi. Except, Macross is the Cliche-namer, and it does it well. After a surprising turn of events, the Macross finds up quite a ways from home, and beset by its foes. I found the plot to be exhilarating. After episode 4, I watched five episodes in a straight run. And after episode 16, I watched straight until Episode 22. From deep space, to earth, to a massive zentradi ship, Macross keeps you on the edge of your seat. There were a few odd slow downs with the pacing, but for the most part, the show was able to keep me watching almost continuously.

The music was amazing. I'll never get enough of ACTION or PASSION. Although, after episode 13, I was so sick of My Boyfriend is a Pilot that I almost leapt out of my seat in joy when Minmay sang something different. However, the fact that I still find myself singing My boyfriend is a pilot(without meaning to) and the Macross Main Theme tells me that I will be buying this OST.

The Valkyrie's were something else. As Neo put it, where else have we seen fighter planes that turn into planes with arms or full fledged real robots? The Various Zentradi mechs were quite awesome as well. Looking forward to more Macross, to see even more variants of the Valkyries.

However, with all good things, bad things must go with them, and Macross is no different. I present to you Lynn Kaifun. Every single one of his appearances he got on my nerves. I'm aware that he was supposed to be in the way, supposed to make things harder for Hikaru, and supposed to be a force in Minmay's life, but man, was he annoying!
I follow this with the disappointment that I felt with Minmay. She had such a solid start, but quickly devolved into selfishness. Again, I understand why they did this, but that doesn't mean she didn't get on my nerves with it. I knew she was going to be this way from the moment she tried to get Hikaru to throw himself into space with her.
My aggravation with her was cemented when she never ONCE tried to talk to Hikaru about the death of two of his closest friends. Even her later attempts to be with Hikaru don't change the fact that she was a selfish brat with a crush.
On the flipside, although Misa Hayase could be cold sometimes, I adored her character. I'll be honest, I love me some Tsun, and although not a typical Tsundere, she did have quite the soft side underneath.
Hikaru I never had a problem with. I could get the fact that he was a civilian trapped in events beyond his circumstances, and he stepped up to the plate despite the fact that the girl he loved was being distant.
I also have to call foul on the Max and Millia Fight-To-Marriage thing. It's obvious Millia thought of him as a rival, and that Max liked her, but still. Sudden marriage... still the weirdest twist yet.

All in all, I adored this series, and will start watching Macross 7 as soon as I finish Legend of the Galactic Heroes, which I'm now on episode 3 of. SDF Macross has made a fan out of me! Thanks again, Chris, Neo and Soulbro! Wouldn't have watched this if not for you guys.

-Raptor, out.

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I'm going to have ten people run across a field, five of which I believe have superior qualities. I shall then toss a grenade in front of them to see who survives even though that course of action might kill all the people I wanted to save.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:17 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy
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I'm a big fan of Macross as well. I'd only seen the Robotech version and only a couple months ago saw the ADV dub, which was good. Mari Ijima's portrayal of Minmay in English this time stands out.

I agree with you about the music (I love Ai Wa Nagareru) and about how suckish Kaifun is. I wish the self-righteous prick got what he deserved, but he never did.

I have to disagree about Minmay, though. I think she's a lot better person than people give her credit for. If you can forgive Hikaru for being trapped in events beyond his circumstances, then you should do the same for Minmay. All she wanted to do was sing, then she won the Miss Macross competition and her career took off from there. She had a demanding schedule and could not keep up with what was going on in Hikaru's life. I will agree that she is a bit selfish in that she is always talking about herself, but her flaws are no worse than Hikaru's or Misa's. The fact is that the vast majority of the drama that was caused in the love triangle was happened because of Misa and Hikaru. Minmay did not even know Hikaru liked her until just before Boddle Zer attacked the Earth.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:53 am 
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My problem with Minmay is more on par with the fact that she was ready to die with Hikaru, and to marry Hikaru, until they were saved. Then they were just friends. And then, of course, the afore mentioned lack of concern for Hikaru after
Spoiler: show
Roy and Kakizaki
died. Not once does she mention either of them after they died, nor do we see a flashback where she thinks about them. If she really cared for Hikaru, she would have tried to help him through that tough time. Instead, she was too busy. And I can forgive all of that, because she is just a teenage girl.

However, after Hikaru tells her his feelings, and she informs him that she cares for Kaifun, she leaves with Kaifun, and that should have been the end of it. It's the fact that once things got bad with Kaifun, and she realized what kind of a person he really was, she wants Hikaru back, despite the fact that she can see something is going on between him and Misa. It just makes her come off as a spoiled brat, and she got on my nerves because of it. Do I think she should have died in a fire? No. It's the fact that she never once put Hikaru before herself that made me dislike her.

I don't mean to sound like I hate her. This isn't Neo level hate for Ranka here, just a severe dislike. I have heard, however, that the DYRL version of Minmay is much better.

-Raptor, out.

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Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
I'm going to have ten people run across a field, five of which I believe have superior qualities. I shall then toss a grenade in front of them to see who survives even though that course of action might kill all the people I wanted to save.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:51 am 
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Der Bigen Slicen
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I think Minmay does have a bit of a streak of selfishness in her and I think that's why Hikaru ended up with Misa in the end but she grew up by the end of the show and all of that never actually made me dislike her. It was more like just being annoyed, like when you have a friend that does something stupid. You still like them and all but you still get annoyed at the stupid thing they did.

And that thing about wanting Hikaru to throw them both out into space was just plain nuts so I give her a pass on that one! :)

As for Kaifun... I really don't know what his deal was. His attitude would have been somewhat understandable if this was still the Unification War, but the war with the Zentradi? I can't believe that anyone would have given him the time of day. I'm somewhat tempted to say he might be a Shoji Kawamori-ism, but Kawamori wasn't the director and I don't think he was as heavily involved with the story of First Macross, was he?
Regardless, Kaifun should have been killed with fire. He should've gotten Yuna'd, or Tolle'd or Nichol'd. Or Mu'd but without the inexplicable retcon!

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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:55 am 
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AEUG Slapping Boy
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Definitely Yuna'd. I would have loved to see Kanjin just step on Kaifun on accident, and never notice.

Maybe I'm being too hard on her. I can't change the fact that she got on my nerves, but I forgave Relena for some of the dumb stuff she did, I may have to take it easy on Minmay in the future. No promises though guys...

Although this has nothing to do with her as a character, I love the fact that her Seiyuu doubled as her VA. We need more of this!

-Raptor, out.

_________________
Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
I'm going to have ten people run across a field, five of which I believe have superior qualities. I shall then toss a grenade in front of them to see who survives even though that course of action might kill all the people I wanted to save.


Last edited by Raptor on Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:39 am 
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Newtype Emo Guy
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Raptor wrote:
My problem with Minmay is more on par with the fact that she was ready to die with Hikaru, and to marry Hikaru, until they were saved. Then they were just friends. And then, of course, the afore mentioned lack of concern for Hikaru after
Spoiler: show
Roy and Kakizaki
died. Not once does she mention either of them after they died, nor do we see a flashback where she thinks about them. If she really cared for Hikaru, she would have tried to help him through that tough time. Instead, she was too busy. And I can forgive all of that, because she is just a teenage girl.

However, after Hikaru tells her his feelings, and she informs him that she cares for Kaifun, she leaves with Kaifun, and that should have been the end of it. It's the fact that once things got bad with Kaifun, and she realized what kind of a person he really was, she wants Hikaru back, despite the fact that she can see something is going on between him and Misa. It just makes her come off as a spoiled brat, and she got on my nerves because of it. Do I think she should have died in a fire? No. It's the fact that she never once put Hikaru before herself that made me dislike her.

I don't mean to sound like I hate her. This isn't Neo level hate for Ranka here, just a severe dislike. I have heard, however, that the DYRL version of Minmay is much better.

-Raptor, out.

I disagree with your assessment.

When Minmay suggested that they kill themselves, she had spent several days in seclusion with Hikaru and was no longer in her right mind. Once they were rescued and she regained her senses, she no longer had any desire to go through with it. As far as the deaths of his friends, you must remember that Minmay and Hikaru barely spoke to each other after she became a star and he joined the military. It's unclear how much time passed between the death of Roy and when she next spoke to him. We know that she spoke to him right after Kakizaki's death, but she did not know that at the time, and then Hikaru hung up on her for obvious reasons.

Later on, when Hikaru makes his confession to Minmay, she tells him that she always thought of him as a friend and only that, and Hikaru blames himself for not telling her how he felt sooner. They share a kiss and then make their silent goodbyes to each other. As you said, that should have been the end of it, since Hikaru went off to rescue Misa at the end of the war. However, two years later, Hikaru is still pinning for Minmay even though Misa has a key to his home and cleans it for him. Even though Minmay tries to avoid him, he constantly went searching for her. Hikaru eventually rescued Minmay from Quamzin and had a reunion with her, which reaffirmed his feelings for her, and she began to reciprocate.

Mimay was feeling lost around that time and wanted to return to when things were simpler, back when she and Hikaru first met. She began to pursue him this time, not knowing that he and Misa were hooking up. He then turned his back on Misa for Minmay, and they eventually lived together.

It should be noted that it was only in the last episode of the series that Minmay learnt that she was in a love triangle when Misa made her confession to Hikaru in front of her. She knew nothing of it before that point, and that's why I think that Minmay plays a minor role in the drama that took place. Hikaru's wishy-washyness and Misa's coldness was what caused the problems. I will admit that Minmay was self-absorbed as she would often go on and on talking about herself and ignored her friends while pursuing her career, but I wouldn't exactly call her selfish.

And yes, she is much more mature in DYRL.


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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:30 am 
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AEUG Slapping Boy
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I can pass off the suggested death, because yes, she was kind of mad at that point, and yes, she didn't know anything about Misa's feelings until the end.

However, you can't tell me she didn't hear that Roy Focker, leader of Skull Squadron, and arguably the best pilot on the Macross(Until Max started flying) had died. Heck, she only knew Hikaru himself was injured before hand because Roy told her. She wasn't even keeping tabs on him.

You say we can't call her selfish, but what about how she tries to get Hikaru to leave the Military, so she won't have to worry about him anymore. She SHOULD know by this point that he only fights to protect the macross, and then later her. She doesn't even consider the way he feels about it. Just her own feelings, which makes her selfish in my book. Self-absorbed is when only your problems matter to you. Selfish is when that self-absorption is directly ignoring or simply disregarding someone else's feelings on the matter.

She was still quite childish, so I didn't expect any different form her, because she was still a child. One last example, and then I'll wash my hands of this discussion, because it's obvious neither of us are budging.

Minmay refuses to sing a concert, claiming she doesn't feel like singing. She had already sang at expensive places with few people, but now she has a whole crowd at an amphitheater, including Zentradi who only defected because of her introducing them to culture. She had a responsibility to all those people, and especially the zentradi. I understand why she refused to sing, but she still had that responsibility, and refusing to sing just to sate her own desires is selfishness.

And yes, she saw Hikaru and Misa walking together when she first went to find him in Macross City. Her reaction made it quite clear she knew there was something between them.

-Raptor, out.

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Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:
I'm going to have ten people run across a field, five of which I believe have superior qualities. I shall then toss a grenade in front of them to see who survives even though that course of action might kill all the people I wanted to save.


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