So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

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AmuroNT1
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:16 pm

Personally I'm quite fond of Crossbone because it's Gundam, but at the same time it isn't Gundam. There are Newtypes, but they don't pull off reality-bending feats of psychic magic. The protagonist is a civilian techie who falls into the cockpit, but he's completely different from Amuro, Kamille, and all the others in terms of personality, being completely free of angst and exhibiting some really clever and inventive strategies.

Like ShadowCell said, it's not a direct sequel to F91. While it is a sequel of sorts in that it focuses on what Seabook, Cecily, and Zabine do ten years later, it doesn't follow up on the Cosmo Babylonia plotline and pretty much every other element of the movie is gone. If anything, it could be seen more as a bridge between F91 and Victory.

Crossbone also represents Tomino working the way he wants, without sponsors and executives hanging over his head. This is, of course, a double-edged sword. The characters feel a lot more natural and he does a good job of blending humor with serious moments. On the other hand, it does kind of meander, and the MS designs can be odd. While the Crossbone stuff is cool, the Jupiter Empire's machines are a mixed bag. Crossbone includes some of the ugliest MS this side of the Acguy (see: the Vagon), maybe because they weren't designed to be made into model kits or action figures. That said, they might end up growing on you.

(As an aside, all the MS were done by Katoki with a single exception: the Elgolela MA from Volume 5, which was part of an amateur design contest. The young man who designed it? Kanetake Ebikawa, who's gone on to work on such series as Full Metal Panic and Gundam 00. And now you know the rest of the story. Good day!)

Also, if you're wondering, this is neither the Off-His-Meds, Kill-Em-All Tomino of Zeta, Victory and Ideon nor the I've-Seen-A-Therapist, Love-And-Peace Tomino of Xabungle, Brain Powerd and King Gainer. Crossbone is kind of a happy medium, having a plot that can be dark at times but still maintaining the funny and having characters you DON'T want to beat upside the head for being selfish asses (looking at you, Zeta).

The sequels were written entirely be artist Yuichi Hasegawa without Tomino's involvement. Skull Heart is a series of brief vignettes exploring what the cast does a few years after the original manga ended. On the whole it's mostly light-hearted, but there are some serious stories (like the JE trying to clone Amuro for a new MS). Steel 7 is a riff on the Seven Samurai, and is pretty hit-or-miss. Overall it's a little darker, working more to bridge the gap with Victory, but it's still undeniably Crossbone, with all that entails both good and bad.

I think maybe in the past Crossbone had this mystique of "that awesome manga that a friend of a friend told me about", so perhaps it's got a few people giving glowing reviews without ever actually having read it. But since that's not an issue anymore, I say go ahead and give it a read and see what you think.
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by balofo » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:08 pm

The most intriguing backstory detail is the claim that Seabook and Zabine had many battles during the Cosmo Babylonia. The manga depicts the F91 vs the black Berga Giros, thus making Zabine a badass pilot for surviving against the F91 in a meager Berga Giros, the same MS that couldn't defeat Anamarie in the movie without losing an arm. Whereas there were Vigna Ginas, Berga Balus and Vigna Zirahs running around. Zabine=Yazan in piloting skill?

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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:41 pm

At least. Personally I consider Zabine to be a pretty obvious Char-expy; I mean really, blue-eyed blonde male enemy ace/rival to the protagonist, and with a French-sounding surname to boot?
Of course, F91 itself ends just as the whole Cosmo Babylonia mess is beginning -albeit after the death of its then-leader, Iron Mask.
I, for one, would dearly love to see the Cosmo Babylonia war revisited in some way; it's a pretty big hole in the Universal Century's story that I would rather see filled. Plus there were quite a few interesting characters; Zabine, Seabook, Birgit, even Dorel was mildly interesting in a way. Plus the Crossbone ships looked pretty awesome.

As for Crossbone, as much as I love the F97s/Crossbone Gundams, I've not read much of the original, and barely any of the later stuff. This latest work intrigues me somewhat though.
Also, TvTropes claims that protagonist Tobia Arronax is literally made of Crowning Moments of Awesome. The bits and pieces I've read seem to support this theory :D
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by teslashark » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:25 am

Dark Duel wrote:At least. Personally I consider Zabine to be a pretty obvious Char-expy; I mean really, blue-eyed blonde male enemy ace/rival to the protagonist, and with a French-sounding surname to boot?
Of course, F91 itself ends just as the whole Cosmo Babylonia mess is beginning -albeit after the death of its then-leader, Iron Mask.
I, for one, would dearly love to see the Cosmo Babylonia war revisited in some way; it's a pretty big hole in the Universal Century's story that I would rather see filled. Plus there were quite a few interesting characters; Zabine, Seabook, Birgit, even Dorel was mildly interesting in a way. Plus the Crossbone ships looked pretty awesome.

As for Crossbone, as much as I love the F97s/Crossbone Gundams, I've not read much of the original, and barely any of the later stuff. This latest work intrigues me somewhat though.
Also, TvTropes claims that protagonist Tobia Arronax is literally made of Crowning Moments of Awesome. The bits and pieces I've read seem to support this theory :D
Birgit and Annamarie are confirmed dead in the movie and the novel of F91 (though not comfirmed dead in rumors of the cancelled full animation) and Dorel is treated as either dead or missing in all those Crossbone series.
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by Dark Duel » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:01 pm

Birgit got killed off? *is sad*
I guess I'd forgotten - it's been so long since I watched that movie after all.
Pity. He was a bit of a jerk, but I liked him...
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by teslashark » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:31 pm

Dark Duel wrote:Birgit got killed off? *is sad*
I guess I'd forgotten - it's been so long since I watched that movie after all.
Pity. He was a bit of a jerk, but I liked him...
Although Birgit and Annamarie are interesting characters(I like Annamarie), they are indeed finished and not coming back in any of Hasegawa's sequels.
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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by Calubin_175 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:35 pm

The most intriguing backstory detail is the claim that Seabook and Zabine had many battles during the Cosmo Babylonia. The manga depicts the F91 vs the black Berga Giros, thus making Zabine a badass pilot for surviving against the F91 in a meager Berga Giros, the same MS that couldn't defeat Anamarie in the movie without losing an arm. Whereas there were Vigna Ginas, Berga Balus and Vigna Zirahs running around. Zabine=Yazan in piloting skill?
My UC noob friend and I were playing Extreme VS and I explained to him Seabook and Zabine never fought in the movie, that is why the game opening did not show them together in the same frame.

However, when I started reading some of the Crossbone chapters, it mentions that they were rivals in the Cosmo Babylonian War. Certainly the movie had lots of events left out and poor transition of scenes, such as how Seabook got back into the colony to sneak into Cecily's room, but would the plot of latter half of the movie assume that Seabook and Zabine had fought?

Not sure about the novelisation, which is not regarded as an alternate adaption, but rather an extended/complete edition of the story. I haven't found scans of the second book, maybe their rivalry will be depicted there.

With regards to Dorel, I though there was meant to be some F91 looking Vigna Zira which was meant to be assigned to him, or was it the Gina II? Either way, there was no scenario to utilise them and Dorel.

F91 featured some of the best Okawara designs in my opinon while the rest of his others suck. I liked how it took them many decades to reach high tech weaponry such as beam shields and the use of 20+ apogee motors. It is certainly a stark contrast to the tech progression speed of Cosmic Era.

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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by balofo » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 pm

I believe the Vigna Gina II was supposed to be used by Dorel, as the Steel 7 manga profile says. I don't know the background of the Zirah's Gundam Head, perhaps AE related.

FUN FACT: Besides the F91 and the Dahga Iris, ALL of the F91 movie's MS don't have a place/rack/hidden place/etc to store their beam sabers, even the Federation ones. Should we blame Okawara for this HUGE oversight, or are we missing the right piece of info/lineart?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5344/deanzon.jpg >>>> Guess this doesn't mention where it's stored

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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by Shinji103 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:32 am

Mmmm, I disagree a little bit on Crossbone not being a sequel to F-91. As we all know, the F-91 series was bricked and broken down into the movie. What Tomino does with Crossbone, is he takes what he wanted to do with the F-91 movie and reworks it as the plot of Crossbone. He gets Seabook and Zabine's rivalry done, he does the whole bit with Cecily/Bera's issues with her lineage, etc. He just wraps it with a different bow, mixes it up, and adds things like Tobia and Bernadette, and the Jupiter Empire with their elitist genocide rampage instead of Steel Mask and his elitist genocide rampage. So while not actually a direct sequel, Tomino did in Crossbone what he wanted to do in F-91, so technically it is a sequel.

It's like what Shirou Tsunashima did with his Jinki manga series; he's had a bit of a curse in getting shafted by his publishers and keeps having to move shop. Each time he did, he retooled the series instead of just straight out continuing it. In fact, what Tsunashima did with the Jinki: Extend -> Jinki: Extend Relation jump is very reminiscient of what Tomino did here with the F-91 -> Crossbone jump; the conflict in J:E was resolved in the time gap between J:E and Relation, and you have new characters, new conflicts, etc. (the Jinki -> J:E jump is actually quite similar to this too, but less like the F-91/Crossbone jump than J:E -> Relation is)

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Re: So how about that new Crossbone Gundam Manga?

Post by 2NA Fish » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:36 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:Crossbone also represents Tomino working the way he wants, without sponsors and executives hanging over his head.
Just a note though, from the interviews in the Crossbone tankoubon, you can tell there was friction between Hasegawa and Tomino. One amusing point was that Tomino felt Hasegawa drew his females too young, but tried to hint to him that "I think our tastes in women are different." Tomino didn't tell him outright that he didn't like the female designs until the series was well underway, to which Hasegawa sighed "Well, even if he tells me now, it's a bit late to change the designs...".

In the last book, Tomino actually states "I was wrong to think I had complete control. If I had everything my way, you wouldn't have gotten an ending like this." He does however thank Hasegawa for enlightening him on manga story writing. Hasegawa adds that during the final battle, Dougatie's words "Wakazou no iu kotoka?!"(Is that something a little brat can say?!/What would a brat like you know?!) were direct from Tomino, and probably reflected his feelings at the time.

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