Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

[LightningCount]

Fortunately Shirin and Klaus and the orphan kids, and quite a few others, survived.

Personal preference, I don't like how Shirin turned out. She was mysterious and creepy political player in Season 1, and here she's just a rebel on the side, often fawning over Klaus, who's about as useful as stale bread.

Saji...Even if it's just being a MS grease monkey, it's better than just moping and wishing the problems plaguing his life would just go away.

Saji gets all the sideline work. His next job/responsibility is far more laid back. Wait till you see one of his other "duties." (Hint, it involves a repetitive phrase).

And we finally find out about Sumeragi's history and the big mistake that's been eating her up all these years, that she's known Billy for at least 12 years, and that she also knew Kati Mannequin. Kati and Sumeragi (her real name being Leesa Kujo) were both students at a university with Billy. The two young women were studying to become tactical forecasters, desiring to use their brilliant skills to analyze data and create mission plans to end conflicts quickly and minimize casualties. Kujo admired Kati, and the two seemed to be friends, or at least friendly rivals. Kati was recruited into the AEU military, and Kujo joined the Union military. And some years ago, Kujo did a tactical forecast for a mission that went horribly wrong, because of false data she was given. Someone she knew named Emilio died (old friend or boyfriend?), and though it looks like she was cleared of any fault or charges, she blames herself anyway. The guilt's so great that she not only buries herself in the bottle, and a doomed relationship with Billy, but she even faints after seeing all the dead Katharon members at their desert base.

Somehow, I didn't like the placement of this revelation. Can't put my finger on it. But it's confusing. I know she lost a boyfriend pilot (ala Murrue), but it seems like she started out in the AEU (Emlio was in AEU duds) and switched later to Union to do work with Billy and Eifman? I don't understand. No more clarification in-show, and Eifman's dead and Billy's nuts now so...who knows. But this new rivalry/friendship between her and Kati, and their differing stances on military and war are also reminiscent of the Murrue/Natarle rivalry, IMO. It seems a little convenient to introduce this now...

BTW, is it just me, or is Billy a good deal older than Kujo through these reveals?!

So Soma Peries aka Marie Parfacy has some serious changes. Following a battle between her and Allelujah, the two end up stranded and camping out...Sergei Smirnov shows up, looking for Soma, and learns that she's "gone," part of Marie now, and she tells him Soma did want to be his daughter, and Allelujah asks Sergei to let Marie/Soma have a happy life. He agrees and lets her go, and says he'll file a false reporting, saying Soma Peries died in combat. Go Sergei!

You know, this was too much (and too soon) of an 08th Team/SEED/Destiny repeat here for me with people getting stranded alone and getting to know one another. The fact that it ended with a music video flashback montage kinda hurt it further for me. This didn't have the nuance or punch between Al and Marie, it felt by-the-book in an obligatory way. I just felt they rushed through this to satisfy the dangling plot thread...but now, the harder part, figuring out how to use these two in the show now that this story arc between them is done...which will apparently be tough...

Oh, BTW, what do you think of Andrei's silly crush on Louise and all that jazz.

This brings me to Aeolia Schenberg's The Plan(tm). At first...

You raise some good points I didn't consider. Maybe he is like Durandal! Ha ha! Except, Durandal had more interesting political and philosophical content in his series, no? Anyway, go into space for "The Dialogues to Come"...that's the most important piece, so ponder on that.

In these episodes, we also meet several other Innovators from Ribbons' little group. Not sure what to make of them yet.

They had a term for these guys in Dragonball Z...it was the Ginyu Force!

Nena Trinity is continuing her work for Wang, but also Ribbons too, it looks like.

I don't know that all the quantum brainwaves and glowing eyes are all intimately connected...Maybe thematically, but not narrative-wise, at least not clearly stated that I remember. But here we have a lot of characters kind of drifting around in the background--Nena, Marina, Wang...They're kind of these interchangeable bit parts it seems like.

Graham is still around, still doing his "I'll take on the 00 myself" bit, fighting with "honor," refusing to kill Setsuna and defeat the 00 even when it's de-powered, following a Trans-Am/Twin Engine failure. And he goes to Billy to get his hands on a new model MS, but wants it fast and with the best sword. He's really taking this "I am a samurai" thing a little too far.

What's funny is, as goofy as Graham has gotten, his stage presence is still one of the most powerful in the cast. Too bad he's just in and out of the story. His first fight versus 00 isn't too bad in these episodes...but it ends like most fights in the series with a convenient retreat before very much intensity can brew.

Louise Halevy is funding a lot of A-LAWS' operations to get revenge for her family and her own mutilation. She runs into Setsuna and they play catch-up, until she has a pain spasm and is assisted by Billy, who recognizes Setsuna as a member of CB.

GREAT scene/episode! Here is a part that I will say they got 100% right. As weird as the ballroom stuff was, that was interesting, too. This is some great use of genuine character interaction, making Louise a little relevant, and connecting back to S1 encounters with her and Billy. Good stuff. (Maybe Louise's best Season 2 moment). Plus the Ali appearance and neat but brief fight afterward! Wow, they tried to get back on a roll here...but it didn't sustain for me. The standard "retreat" ending was too much in line with the battles of this series, as I've griped.

Speaking of which, the Freddy Kruger mecha's "warning" felt superfluous, and again reinforced my negative opinion of how most fights are repetitively arranged in this series. (despite beautiful high-quality animation trying to cover up for that).

Arche Gundam, Ali's, is one of the better designs in Season 2...which has a lot of so-so designs compared to Season 1. But the multiple hands thing is interesting...

Oh, and Patrick "the Invincible Cockroach" Colasour is back, in fine, usual, clownish form.

I get it, you're not going to be the Isamu Dyson-type I had hoped for, or even the Jerrid/Yzak-type. But Patrick, man, we've already got a bunch of clowns in and around A-LAWS. Andrei already filled your role, albeit with father issues/angst. Can we get some credible enemies I can believe in?! I believe in Mr. Bushido, as crazy as he is, but he's a side character, and the same with Ali, too. Marie's gone over the good side, and Sergei has a different role, so he can't fill those shoes... Ugh. I guess I have to rely on the Ginyu Force?

The leader of Katharon (not Klaus or Shirin) makes arrangements to meet with the leader of the Middle Eastern nation of Suille, with Sergei Smirnov commanding a force sitting on their border, watching to see Suille starts anything. Well, it's soon made a moot point when the A-LAWS space-based super-weapon "Memento Mori" is fired at the Suille capitol city, a huge beam causing a massive wave of destruction... that's spreading towards Sergei's position. Oh boy, another Gundam superweapon...

WHAT THE HECK?! We had a possibility for a new, thoughtful political arc--something like the Estard Arc of Gundam X--just waiting to happen and make Katheron relevant...and then you destroy it with the obligatory super weapon?! Talk about killing your plot points! You can't make a good story if half of it is red herrings!

For that matter, Burke, what about Azadistan? We get there, it's burned, so it's of no political plot use for Marina...and Ali is floating there to break the fourth wall and tell us he's back...and Setsuna is right there in 00...and the two Gundams don't fight at all? Not even a chase? We just cut back to the Katheron ruins? It's like these writers don't want to spend the time on the scenes they've already set up, too busy thinking about moving things ahead. It's just too often. This Second Season has its moments and episodes, but as a whole, it feels like the last quarter of Destiny to me in regards to how it treats its plot points and characters.

Setsuna kicks the 00 into Trans-Am mode, and its output goes beyond the theoretical limit for the GN drives. GN particles are spreading EVERYWHERE through the facility and it has some strange effects. Marie has a psychic flash, seeing Sergei in danger as the Memento Mori beam wipes out Suille. And Allelujah has a big headache, but then starts speaking in a new type of voice, saying the quantum particles are accelerating in this direction, "guess it's about time I woke up." Is Hallelujah back... or is this another personality?!

This weirdness is a sign of things to come. And you just have to decide how much stock you want to put into it. Varies by viewer.

Tieria sure does doll up nicely in a dress.

I liked this scene as it played up the rarely seen "covert" aspects of CB...but how exactly did Tieria change himself like that?

PS: Would have liked some Homer Katagiri in Season 1 maybe to set him up better as the A-LAWS chief here. At least it explains Billy and Graham's perks a bit.

However, al-Saachez is ultimately just a soldier, and if the Innovators are serious about ending warfare and changing the world... when will they assassinate their assassin, who assassinated the other patsies? Y'know it's gotta be coming, if Setsuna or someone else doesn't kill al-Saachez first.

The simplicity and craziness of Saachez is admirable, but I just find it beneath him to be working for Ribbons and co. (Unless he was doing so all along?). Maybe it's because I just don't care for Ribbons much...But I always thought in Season 1 that Saachez would amount to a more complex character given his background dealings with groups like La Edenra and KPSA, connections with the PMCs, and his ability to don disguises like Gary Biaggi. But, oh well. He's kind of the occasional attack dog now. I guess he's there to give the Meisters a bit more motivation for the loss of Neil, too...

I love the little scene in the nursery room, where Marina talks to the one kid from Suille, who asks why people can't get along, and she says they should think of things to do to get people to get along, eh starts rattling off stuff like, have a meal together, sing songs togheter, share favorite things. Ahhh the innocence of youth.

Well, then you might very well like Marina's role in the series. Not saying I hated it, but I felt it was underwhelming in terms of practical screen time and usage.

SonicSP: So...what about Feldt instead of Lyle for Cherudim? You haven't weighed in yet.

[Admiral Larsen]

Ah, Gundam 00, for me, well it was an alright series (infinitely better than what came before). Liked Season 1 and aspects of Season 2. I hope that you're enjoying it as well.

Probably will explain more later.

[E08]

And we finally find out about Sumeragi's history and the big mistake that's been eating her up all these years, that she's known Billy for at least 12 years, and that she also knew Kati Mannequin. Kati and Sumeragi (her real name being Leesa Kujo) were both students at a university with Billy. The two young women were studying to become tactical forecasters, desiring to use their brilliant skills to analyze data and create mission plans to end conflicts quickly and minimize casualties. Kujo admired Kati, and the two seemed to be friends, or at least friendly rivals. Kati was recruited into the AEU military, and Kujo joined the Union military. And some years ago, Kujo did a tactical forecast for a mission that went horribly wrong, because of false data she was given. Someone she knew named Emilio died (old friend or boyfriend?), and though it looks like she was cleared of any fault or charges, she blames herself anyway. The guilt's so great that she not only buries herself in the bottle, and a doomed relationship with Billy, but she even faints after seeing all the dead Katharon members at their desert base.

Somehow, I didn't like the placement of this revelation. Can't put my finger on it. But it's confusing. I know she lost a boyfriend pilot (ala Murrue), but it seems like she started out in the AEU (Emlio was in AEU duds) and switched later to Union to do work with Billy and Eifman? I don't understand. No more clarification in-show, and Eifman's dead and Billy's nuts now so...who knows. But this new rivalry/friendship between her and Kati, and their differing stances on military and war are also reminiscent of the Murrue/Natarle rivalry, IMO. It seems a little convenient to introduce this now...

Its not that complicated. She studied at a Union University and later became a tactical forecaster at AEU, that's all. She never work for Union.

As for Ali, i think it is prety straight forward. He just want to be involve in fighting, who he work for doesnt matter as long as he gets to fight.

[AmuroNT1]

Just to make things easier for Burke, I'll point out that the Innovators have been stated by Word of God to be genderless (with one exception, you'll see soon enough). Most of us just refer to them by whatever gender they appear to be - IE, Tieria is a guy, Regene is a girl, etc.

Also, most of the Innovators have returning Gundam voice actors, just like Ribbons. Regene for example is played by Romi Park, AKA Loran (and Nichol after his original actress retired).

Oh, do you want to be really impressed? Tieria's "woman" voice from the party episode was provided by...Hiroshi Kamiya, his regular voice actor. Apparently being able to pull off a convincing female voice is a talent of his.

Obviously, what's happening with Allelujah is that he's developing Yallelujah, that baby personality from the SD short. C'mon man, pay attention!

[SonicSP]

^Are you sure about the VA thing because I've heard people claiming both it's true and not true so I'm not sure what to think. It would be super awesome if he could though.

Innovators's sex topic can be confusing as hell; the sidematerials have gone back on forth on it ALOT but what Amuro said should generally be true. They're biologically sexless but they do adopt a gender model or so; Ribbons and Revive for example are male models while Hilling is a female model.

[Burke Rukes]

Oh, do you want to be really impressed? Tieria's "woman" voice from the party episode was provided by...Hiroshi Kamiya, his regular voice actor. Apparently being able to pull off a convincing female voice is a talent of his.

Well, _I_ was convinced!

Its not that complicated. She studied at a Union University and later became a tactical forecaster at AEU, that's all. She never work for Union.

I wasn't sure about which military she ended up working for. In the flashbacks to the friendly fire accident, Leesa Kujo is wearing a military uniform, and I thought it looked like a Union one. I could be wrong though.

Personal preference, I don't like how Shirin turned out. She was mysterious and creepy political player in Season 1, and here she's just a rebel on the side, often fawning over Klaus, who's about as useful as stale bread.

I'm not sure, I kinda like where she's at now, and considering how serious and dedicated she was (even if she came off as cold and creepy) in S1, in really trying to hold Marina's hand and do what's right for Azadistan, I consider her being with Katharon a logical extension of that. With the powers-that-be in the world uniting and countries like Azadistan getting left in the dust, and soon to be stomped on, Shirin saw the writing on the wall and changed jobs to where she thought she could do the most good. As for her actually being a resistance fighter, she doesn't necessarily have to be fighting to be an important part of the team. She seems to be doing the admininistrative and intelligence thing, which I think fits her. And hey, what's wrong with fawning over a handsome co-worker?

Saji gets all the sideline work. His next job/responsibility is far more laid back. Wait till you see one of his other "duties." (Hint, it involves a repetitive phrase).

Wax on, wax off, Daniel-san?

But this new rivalry/friendship between (Kujo) and Kati, and their differing stances on military and war are also reminiscent of the Murrue/Natarle rivalry, IMO. It seems a little convenient to introduce this now...

The introduction of it doesn't bother me. Sure, I see some parallels to Murrue/Natarle, but I like it, and it feels like a different kind of rivalry.

BTW, is it just me, or is Billy a good deal older than Kujo through these reveals?!

In their flashbacks at the univeristy, it's said Kujo is graduating at age 17, and I think in that same conversation she makes a remark about Billy being something like 6 years older than her.

Regarding the Allelujah/Soma/Marie stranded stuff:

You know, this was too much (and too soon) of an 08th Team/SEED/Destiny repeat here for me with people getting stranded alone and getting to know one another. The fact that it ended with a music video flashback montage kinda hurt it further for me. This didn't have the nuance or punch between Al and Marie, it felt by-the-book in an obligatory way.

I'll have to disagree a little bit here. Sure, it's a trope that's been used a few times now in Gundamdom. That in itself doesn't bother me, it's not like it's one they use over and over and over in the same series (sorry, still feeling some of those trope abuse stings from Destiny ), and whereas Shiro/Aina and Athrun/Cagalli were about two strangers forced to deal with each other in less than ideal circumstances, and forming a bond, this is different. Allelujah and Marie/Soma know each other, they have history, despite Marie never been able to see Al with her own eyes before. We also learn more origin story stuff from them both, and in the end, unlike Aina/Shiro and Cagalli/Athrun, rather than goign their separate ways, they leave together. It's a happy ending, though bittersweet because she and her adopted father-figure also say their goodbyes and part ways. Sure, the flashback montage with the song was sappy, but you know what? I ate it up, I was tearful and it moved me.

Oh, BTW, what do you think of Andrei's silly crush on Louise and all that jazz.

Silly and creepy. Louise is one thing, and he sees her as something else entirely. Yeah... I'm leaning more towards creepy.

You raise some good points I didn't consider. Maybe he is like Durandal! Ha ha! Except, Durandal had more interesting political and philosophical content in his series, no? Anyway, go into space for "The Dialogues to Come"...that's the most important piece, so ponder on that.

Heheh, yeah, one of the great things about Destiny, and something I would love to see more of in Gundam. It's not to say the same things aren't in 00, or even other Gundam shows. The philosophical stuff I eat like candy is always there, just hidden under the surface of actions and dialogue and plot. Destiny just brought it all out into the open, unashamedly baring philosophical fangs though Durandal. Just because these things aren't discussed openly, hit-you-over-the-head style in 00, doens't mean they're not there. I mean, WE'RE talking about them, aren't we? (Well, at least I am. I often feel like the lone guy with the radical, whacky ideas in a room full of normal people. ) To me, if a show makes me THINK as well as feel, then it's probably good entertainment.

What's funny is, as goofy as Graham has gotten, his stage presence is still one of the most powerful in the cast. Too bad he's just in and out of the story. His first fight versus 00 isn't too bad in these episodes...but it ends like most fights in the series with a convenient retreat before very much intensity can brew.

I agree, so far he feels so wholly under-used.

Speaking of which, the Freddy Kruger mecha's "warning" felt superfluous, and again reinforced my negative opinion of how most fights are repetitively arranged in this series. (despite beautiful high-quality animation trying to cover up for that).

Yeah, that bit did feel kind of cheap and thrown in to make us go "ooooohhh a scary new bad guy mecha!" and nothing more.

Arche Gundam, Ali's, is one of the better designs in Season 2...which has a lot of so-so designs compared to Season 1.

Yeah, it's a pretty slick design. I agree that the S2 designs aren't as good as S1's. Actually I'd like the S2 CB Gundams if their heads were more like their unique S1 counterparts... however, the Arche Gundam, I think, looks better than the Thrones, which didn't really grab me much.

But the multiple hands thing is interesting...

I just had a silly thought about the Seravee... but I'll share it later today in my post on S2 eps 11 thru 15...

I get it, you're not going to be the Isamu Dyson-type I had hoped for, or even the Jerrid/Yzak-type. But Patrick, man, we've already got a bunch of clowns in and around A-LAWS. Andrei already filled your role, albeit with father issues/angst. Can we get some credible enemies I can believe in?! I believe in Mr. Bushido, as crazy as he is, but he's a side character, and the same with Ali, too. Marie's gone over the good side, and Sergei has a different role, so he can't fill those shoes... Ugh. I guess I have to rely on the Ginyu Force?

Looks like... it is kinda disappointing, isn't it? All the interesting rival pilots are gone or under-used. I'll endure Graham's silly "Mr. Bushido" kick if he'd just show up more and seem to be more of an actual threat, instead of lurking in the background. Otherwise... the Innovator pilots I find to be very uninteresting so far.

WHAT THE HECK?! We had a possibility for a new, thoughtful political arc--something like the Estard Arc of Gundam X--just waiting to happen and make Katheron relevant...and then you destroy it with the obligatory super weapon?! Talk about killing your plot points! You can't make a good story if half of it is red herrings!

I'll confess it's been so long since I've watched Gundam X that I'm drawing a blank on your reference. The Memento Mori feels like a cheap plot point meant to rush the plot along, and I wish they'd done something else, too. But... as I'll post later today... it did serve as a pretty exciting battlefield...

For that matter, Burke, what about Azadistan? We get there, it's burned, so it's of no political plot use for Marina...and Ali is floating there to break the fourth wall and tell us he's back...and Setsuna is right there in 00...and the two Gundams don't fight at all? Not even a chase? We just cut back to the Katheron ruins?

That 4th wall bit was jarring. And at first, I was confused as to how Setsuna and Marina were suddenly back at the Katharon base, not having fought Ali, but thinking on it, it makes sense. I'm sure Marina would have liked to have landed and start trying to save any survivors, but Ali wouldn't let them. And I don't think Setsuna would want to put Marina in direct danger and start a fight with Ali, so taking her back to the Katharon base was the wise choice. But it still feels like we got cheated out of a cool fight a bit.

It's like these writers don't want to spend the time on the scenes they've already set up, too busy thinking about moving things ahead. It's just too often. This Second Season has its moments and episodes, but as a whole, it feels like the last quarter of Destiny to me in regards to how it treats its plot points and characters.

I'm not sure, I don't want to pass judgment overall until I finish S2, but so far, the pacing on everything feels good, consistent (or even better, in some ways) than S1. I'm still miffed about things like the Observers getting dropped like a hot potato, and Memento Mori feels like a cheap plot-accelerating gimmick, but so far, I don't have a problem with S2's pacing. That might change as I go through the last 10 episodes, though, we'll see.

Regarding the weirdness caused by the 00 Raiser's Twin Drive in Trans-Am mode...

This weirdness is a sign of things to come. And you just have to decide how much stock you want to put into it. Varies by viewer.

Yeah... more on this in my eps 11-15 post later today.

Tieria sure does doll up nicely in a dress.

I liked this scene as it played up the rarely seen "covert" aspects of CB...but how exactly did Tieria change himself like that?

It's called "crossdressing." Some men are VERY good at it, and some even have the right body for it. And considering the androgynous forms of the Innovators, I'm not surprised in the least that Tieria could pull it off perfectly.

PS: Would have liked some Homer Katagiri in Season 1 maybe to set him up better as the A-LAWS chief here. At least it explains Billy and Graham's perks a bit.

Hasn't really bothered me. 00 already had such a large ensemble cast in S1, I don't think it's necessary to "properly" introduce and set up minor characters like Homer Katagiri. So he's the guy in charge of A-LAWS and he's Billy's uncle, pulls strings to get his clearly very talented nephew into a juicy job making new MSs. That's all I need to know, good enough for me.

The simplicity and craziness of Saachez is admirable, but I just find it beneath him to be working for Ribbons and co. (Unless he was doing so all along?). Maybe it's because I just don't care for Ribbons much...But I always thought in Season 1 that Saachez would amount to a more complex character given his background dealings with groups like La Edenra and KPSA, connections with the PMCs, and his ability to don disguises like Gary Biaggi. But, oh well. He's kind of the occasional attack dog now. I guess he's there to give the Meisters a bit more motivation for the loss of Neil, too...

Yeah, he's a foil to be used for fights, ultimately, in S2. But I feel like we got plenty of development and peeks inside this creep's head in S1 that we know him as well as we need to. He's a very fun villain to watch, though. If he doesn't get any more development in S2, I won't mind, every time he's around he steals the scene.

Well, then you might very well like Marina's role in the series. Not saying I hated it, but I felt it was underwhelming in terms of practical screen time and usage.

I do like her role now. More on this in my review post later today.

[Dark Duel]

Tieria sure does doll up nicely in a dress.

This was personally one of the strangest moments in this show for me. Still awesome though.
Actually, this reminded me very strongly of Turn-A's recurring "Laura" gag, which had Loran cross-dressing IIRC twice and pulling it off bizarrely well because he was a somewhat effeminate character.
But this is even more bizarre because it's not just Tieria in a dress, which would've been strange given that as effeminate as Tieria normally looks(when I first saw the original trailer for 00 waaaay back before S1 started airing I thought that was a woman) his voice is undeniably a dude's.
No, the really freaky part is that it's a total change right down to the voice - when "she" talks prior to the whole dance with Ribbons (*snickers* what a stupid name) - again, IIRC there was a similar scene in Turn-A - it's a totally different voice from the way Tieria sounds normally.
Still, it's something that hadn't been done in a while, so it was an interesting one.

[Burke Rukes]

And here we go with Season 2 Episodes 11 thru 15!

Tieria finally fesses up to his teammates about his knowledge of the Innovators. I'm surprised they didn't get too upset with him for waiting to tell him about the Innovators. But he's "one of the family," so they're sticking by him. Good to see the team getting along so well, though at times it feels like they get along a bit TOO well now. I suppose the biggest part of this rests on Tieria's shoulders. He's come a long way from being the cold and judgmental jerk from early S1, to having human feelings and even calling himself a human being.

I totally don't trust the new girl, Anew Returner. She's totally an Innovator spy, though I think she's a "sleeper," unaware of what she really is and what she's doing. She keeps pointing out "how are they able to find us" over and over, when the first time one of the Innovator A-LAWS pilots (I can't keep them straight, they all have day-glo/pastel colored hair and weird-as-hell names, with no particularly interesting personalities, they're all the same to me) somehow detects and locates CB's secret dock at the L3 asteroids. Anew seems to be distracted for a sec, and Lockon Lyle asks her about it. So totally a spy. But a darned cute one. She also bonds a bith with Lockon Lyle. And she's taken the Ptolemy's helm station now, much to Lasse's relief.

However, Marie detected the quantum "locator" brainwaves coming from that Innovator pilot. I still keep thinking there's a deeper connection between Innovators and Super Soldiers that I haven't seen yet. Allelujah's re-emerging Hallelujah personality seems to go away when the 00 Raiser's Trans-Am Twin Engine test shuts down. The GN particles and quantum brainwaves are LINKED, and this is A BIG DEAL, I think I see where this (and The Plan(tm)'s Stage 3 and "the dialogues to come") is all going. More on this below.

Kati Mannequin's A-LAWS space force now knows where Ptolemaios is hiding and launches their attack, and it's a VERY exciting battle! The ship and the other Gundams are nearly overwhelmed, as CB abandons their L3 base. Lots of whacky new tech, like heat source hiding cloaks for A-LAWS MSs and other specialized weapons designed to penetrate GN Fields, and 00 is using those handy anti-beam gas/spray missiles that I really liked in SEED/Destiny. Things look bad for our heroes, and Ptolemy takes a nasty hit to the 0-Raiser's hanger, landing poor Ian in a regen tank for a while. But Saji takes out the 0-Raiser and links it up with Setsuna's 00... and kicks off what I think is A Big Deal. A VERY Big Deal.

So when Setsuna kicks on the 00 Raiser's Trans-Am mode, it emits these two giant "O" rings of GN particle energy (which looks like an infinity symbol to me )... and it causes EVERYONE in the area to have naked Newtype spiritual telepathy communions. Saji and Louise are shocked to see and hear each other there on the battlefield, each asking why the others are there. Everyone can hear everyone else's thoughts. Up until now, the original 5 GN Drives/solar reactors have been an important plot point, if only for the sake of their power we see from the start, but we've always been getting hints that they're capable of so much more. Sure, as is to be expected in a Gundam story, that "so much more" means faster speed, more weapon power, etc. Fighting/military stuff. But what IF, in this case, the "so much more" means "so much more than a weapon"? And I think this is the Twin Engine system's true power: to create a field, a tool, a means of psychically linking humans, LOTS of humans, perhaps, with the right tools and circumstances, even the entire human race. And so, I think I understand what Aeolia Schenberg's ultimate goal was.

Yes, it's about ending conflict, but, if this all turns out to be what I THINK it does, and this ties into the "dialogues to come" line, it's also about creating a situation where conflict isn't necessary, or perhaps, even impossible. Imagine a world where everyone can read everyone else's minds. Sure, you can kiss privacy goodbye, and for an anarcho-libertarian myself, that can be a scary thing, BUT... but... despite the methods used to bring about such a world... would, in the end, after some painful growth and adjustment, the world BE a better place? Could humanity truly evolve and transcend the wars and conflicts and misunderstands and fears and ego-fueled nonsense that keeps the current world in such a quagmire? Imagine that, no more secrets, no more lies, everyone's soul laid bare for everyone to see... and everyone would have to see and understand everyone else, AND themselves. And with understanding, might come acceptance, and thus, peace and cooperation. It... could be a wonderful world. But is the way to get to that world, through A-LAWS and Memento Mori and more death and destruction, justified? I can't take that step, sorry. Aggression is still aggression, no matter what the reason for it. But still...

This could be Tomino's Newtype concept, writ large, for the entire human race, brought about in a short time, a single generation, not through centuries or millenia of natural evolution, as UC Gundam generally has it (cyber-Newtypes aside). This is fascinating.

But... I could be completely wrong about this theory. This series could end up going in a very different direction. I'll find out soon.

Whew... okay, philosopher mode off now. Back to the battle! Setsuna kills Captain Zinin, much to Louise's dismay. The 00 Raiser looks fantastic and kicks much butt in very dramatic fashion! I loved the Exia's design, and I wasn't crazy about 00, but the 00 looks much more appealing with the Raiser, and I'm normally not a fan of Gundam add-on kibble. Setsuna destroys the two Innovator pilots' MSs, though they both eject and get away. Overall it's just a VERY weird and crazy fight! With the mass telepathy and other surreal happenings with Trans-Am 00 Raiser, this battle feels very unique, very different from everything that's come before. Ribbons remote-views this battle and is shocked by what happened with the 00 Raiser. He says "the suit quantized. A Gundam power that even I wasn't aware of...?!" I think this means that the Twin Engine System, in addition to GN Particles, can also create quantum particles, which the original GN reactors hadn't been able to do before (and thus caused the quantum brainwave reactions from Allelujah and Marie). Yep... definitely pointing to 00 being a "mass telepath awakening" machine...

Oh, and right after this, Wang walks up to Ribbons, asks what's the matter, and he slaps her and calls her a greedy bitch! Hahahaha! She had that coming. But seriously... where'd you learn to talk like that, Amuro?

00 Raiser saves the day, and Ptolemy and the CB shuttles escape the base. Louise's CO Captain Zirin is killed, much to her dismay. She's has a very psychotic, hate-fueled moment, thinking that Saji has been a member of CB all this time she's known him, having lived next door to Setsuna in Tokyo, and that she's been used. She deletes her pictures of Saji, and when Andrei confronts her about knowing someone in CB, following the 00 Raiser's area-wide telepathy effect, she says Saji's not a friend anymore. Yeah... this poor girl has lost it, and if she wasn't running on anger and hurt before, she sure is now.

Saji, on the other hand, wants Louise back, wants to "save her" from A-LAWS. Setsuna says if he wants her back, he has to fight, but Saji refuses to kill. Saji wants his past, his good times and his undamaged, innocent Louise back, but Setsuna says HE'S not fighting to fix a past mistake, he's fighting for a future. Interesting to see this contrast between them (and it shows how much Setsuna's grown, I think). Saji does come close to pulling a Katz/Hathaway and making an unauthorized launch in the 0-Raiser to go find her, but fortunately he doesn't, knowing he could make the same mistake he did at the Katharon desert base.

A-LAWS continues to literally rain terror down on the Middle East, firing Memento Mori again, this time at a military base in the Kingdom of Richiela, wiping it out along with countless civilian refugees next door. The Federation President issues a gag order about the existence and use of the weapon, which Sergei Smirnov is clearly not happy about. He's approached by an old friend, Colonel Pang Hercury, who tells him there's a coup d'etat force gathering inside the Federation Forces, that intends to overthrow the Fed government and their A-LAWS puppet-masters. He's not asking Sergei to join, but to stay out of the way when the coup happens. The coup group also contacts Katharon, and Klaus and Shirin meets with their rep. The coup group is not asking for an alliance with Katharon (and CB) right away, but to wait and let them take action first. Well, Katharon's been stomped again and again due to their small numbers and outdated military hardware. A coup attempt by regular military forces, if they have the numbers, might stand a chance.

In response to the Memento Mori firings, Katharon mobilizes its space fleet to attack it. Part of their attack force is wiped out by the weapon, when it's revealed to be able to fire out into space as well as on Earth. One of the Innovator pilots, Hiling Care, is with the A-LAWS fleet guarding Memento Mori, in her BFG-armed Gadessa MS, and she snipes more Katharon ships. But suddenly, here comes Ptolemaios and the 00 Raiser to the rescue! This is one of the single most thrilling and fantastic battles I've ever seen in Gundam! Setsuna distracts Hiling so the Ptolemy can move on Memento Mori. Sumeragi's plan is absolutely brilliant, and its execution is nail-biting! The bait-and-switch Trans-Aming of the ship when MM fires at it, to give them a window to attack it while it recharges, and the zooming along the solar power array ring at incredible speed, giving and taking fire... Arios providing the Trans-Am energy, while Cherudim provides defense with its SHIELD BITS! The shields bits are soooooo awesome! Seravee uses its Yamato gun to blast a hole open in MM, and Lockon Lyle snipes the killing shots. It blew up and I cheered! And buh-bye, Major Rindt, ya scumbag! Seriously... AWESOME battle! Great teammwork! I LOVED it! It felt kinda like the Death Star trench from from Star Wars.

And to help make this possible... much to my own surprise... NENA watches the battle, and sends coded data to the Ptolemaios containing Memento Mori's structural data! And after the main fight is done, Hiling tries to attack retreating Setsuna, but Nene provides cover... and then confronts and greets Setsuna afterwards. As if Wang playing all sides against each other wasn't enough, now we've got Nena doing her OWN shennanigans, too! She's clearly has issues working with the people who killed her brothers. Maybe she's ultimately out for revenge, pretending to be Wang's and Ribbons' good little errand girl, but her own actions feel even pettier than Wang's. In one scene at Ribbons' lair, Wang tells Nena, "You're not as special as you think you are." Hmm...

Back to the post-Memento Mori battle, the Ptolemaios got ambushed by a large MS/MA force and got damaged, and was forced to land on Earth. Setsuna tried to rendezvous with them in orbit, but couldn't find them, but Nena pointed the way, for whatever reason. I feel like we got cheated out of more dramatic battle, happening entirely off-screen in this case, but the reveal of what happened, with Ian waking up out of regen, opening the door and seeing mountains and trees and birds and blue sky through the gaping hole in the hull, and his reaction, was hilarious.

Setsuna's back on Earth, searching for the Ptolemaios, when he encounters Ali al-Saachez in the Arche Gundam. Ali leads him to Krugis, for a fateful face-to-face meeting with Ribbons Almark. In a surprise reveal, we learn that it was Ribbons himself piloting the 0 Gundam on that fateful day years ago here in Krugis that completely changed Setsuna's life. (And I find it an amusing homage that the character who piloted (what I assume to be) the first Gundam in this series is voiced by the actor who also played the first Gundam pilot ever. ) Ribbons says that that intervention was a field test for 0 Gundam, and The Plan(tm) originally called for elimination of all witnesses, but he spared Setsuna's life, because of how he reacted to the 0 Gundam. Ribbons also claims that he used Veda to recomment Setsuna as a Gundam Meister later on. Setsuna's services are no longer required, and by all rights, Ribbons should be piloting the 00 Gundam. Setsuna refuses, draws his pistol to shoot him, but Ali shoots him in the shoulder first.

Setsuna and Ali have a big fight in their Gundams, and Ali starts to use a passing-by plane (which happens to be carrying Klaus and Shirion) as hostages. But Setsuna Trans-Am's the 00 and beats him up hard, about to go stabby through Ali's cockpit, when he freezes, and everyone in the area hears Marina and the orphan children at the Katharon desert base, singing the song they've written together. Yeah... the 00 Raiser in Trans-Am mode is definitely a wide-area telepathy-making machine. Ali's Arche is heavily damaged and blows up, but he escapes in his Core Fighter-like thing. Setsuna listens to the song, which is full of hope and happiness, and he tells himself he doesn't know why he's fighting anymore. That's... a rather sudden, dramatic change in attitude, but I guess the telepathy effects would have that affect on him.

Afterwards, Setsuna makes his way to Katharon's base, where Marina is staying. He passes out from the gunshot wound, and wakes up in her care, bandaged up. He'll need time to heal up, since they don't have regeneration equipment there. And the two take the time to talk, share their histories, get to know and understand each other better.

Meanwhile, Ptolemaios has been repaired enough to move, but unable to defend itself yet. They're going to meet up with a Katharon supply convoy in Europe, when they're attacked by two of the Innovator A-LAWS pilots. Things are looking ugly, when Tieria's Seravee is fighting Bring's MS, and then we get the Seravee's big surprise - it has a SECOND Gundam as part of it! Tieria is inside the now-revealed Seraphim Gundam, with the Seravee's parts - is it still a whole mobile suit by itself, maybe a remote/drone unit now? - grappling Bring's MS inside its GN Field. The Seraphim penetrates the field as well, and destroys Bring and his MS. Very cool!

The red-haired Innovator pilot gets a new mobile armor called the Empruss. Louise sees it and asks about it, and is told that it's a prototype for a machine that will eventually be Louise's as a token of appreciation from Ribbons. I smell a Four/Psyco-Gundam/Stella/Destroy thing coming...

Graham gets his new custom MS from Billy, called the Masurao. Graham's happy to see it resembles his old beloved Flag, and Billy tells him its GN drive incorporates some data he found at Professor Elfman's home. After this, Billy tears up a photo of him with Leesa Kujo/Sumeragi. I'm surprised he didn't do this earlier.

Ptolemy makes its rendezvous with the Katharon supply depot. Setsuna gets word about it, and takes off to try to meet up with them. He tells Marina he wants to hear the song again next time they meet. Marina and the children want to sing their song to the whole world. I gotta say, I'm finally starting to like Marina Ismail. She herself admits that she's not a good politician, she only got saddled with the job because of her family bloodline. She's a musician, and this is where she should be putting her talents to use, creating art to try to help heal not only the orphaned children she's taken charge of, but the whole world. I know a lot of you have complained that she's useless, and I agree that she was until she got stuck with Katharon. Now, she has a purpose. Y'know, not everyone in a Gundam story has to be a MS pilot or a ship crewman or a politician or whatever. The world needs artists and people who create hope. And honestly, I like seeing her in this role, in a little slice-of-life view of 00's world from an outsider watching it, as well as being sort of an ideological and emotional sounding-board for Setsuna as his character grows.

Kati is back to running her naval task force, still hunting for the Ptolemaios and its Gundams. Billy is assigned to her force, and she launches a major attack on Ptolemy. Lockon Lyle manages to snipe a bunch of the A-LAWS MSs in Trans-Am mode, but then has to sit out the rest of the battle, fighting off attackers while Tieria and Allelujah cover him and handle the rest. But things are looking grim for our heroes, the Empruss using remote shock-weapons on Seravee and Arios, and just when it looks like they're about to meet their doom, the A-LAWS forces suddenly withdraw.

The reason why is quickly revealed - the Fed Forces' coup has started! A coup group has taken control of the Africa orbital elevator. Setsuna gets this news and takes off for the elevator, when he's intercepted by Graham in his Murasao... which goes into Trans-Am Mode! Dunh-dunh-DUNH!!!

Miscellaneous comments and questions for these episodes:

Does Kati know about the Innovators, and that her new MS pilots are such?

Hercury said he can't imagine Sergei ever disobeying orders, otherwise Holly would still be-- and Sergei cuts him off. I'm guessing Holly is Sergei's dead wife/Andrei's mother? I wonder what this story is.

The new opening credits seems okay, not sure what to think of it yet. The new closing song is good, though the visuals are very "artsy" and weird.

I laughed at the little scene on Ptolemy's bridge when it's quietly revealed that pretty much everyone knows Lyle's been playing informant for Katharon. They're so cool about it.

Fun, exciting, dramatic, fast-paced episodes! I'm still really loving this series, despite minor flaws and complaints. A couple of things are feeling a bit rushed, but not too badly. I'm ready for more 00!

[LightningCount]

And here we go with Season 2 Episodes 11 thru 15...Good to see the team getting along so well, though at times it feels like they get along a bit TOO well now. I suppose the biggest part of this rests on Tieria's shoulders. He's come a long way from being the cold and judgmental jerk from early S1, to having human feelings and even calling himself a human being.

You've probably heard me say it before, but Tieria had the most measured, paced character development throughout 00, IMO. In some ways, the story is his story, given his link to the Innovators/Veda/Schenberg.

(All the stuff about Krugis, Azadistan, the tri-polar powers, and Observers are mostly Macguffins and red herrings to lead up to the conflict with the Innovators and big-bad Ribbons when you boil it down).

I totally don't trust the new girl, Anew Returner. She's totally an Innovator spy, though I think she's a "sleeper," unaware of what she really is and what she's doing...Anew seems to be distracted for a sec, and Lockon Lyle asks her about it. So totally a spy. But a darned cute one. She also bonds a bith with Lockon Lyle. And she's taken the Ptolemy's helm station now, much to Lasse's relief.

I'll have some things to say about Anew later...But let's just say I found her co-development with Lyle to be too crammed in and forced for my liking.

But Saji takes out the 0-Raiser and links it up with Setsuna's 00... and kicks off what I think is A Big Deal. A VERY Big Deal.

It's somewhere in these episodes, maybe even this one, where Saji gets the role of sitting shotgun in 0-Raiser, letting Haro do about 99% of the work. The repetitive line being "O-Raiser Docking Mode."

So when Setsuna kicks on the 00 Raiser's Trans-Am mode, it emits these two giant "O" rings of GN particle energy (which looks like an infinity symbol to me )... and it causes EVERYONE in the area to have naked Newtype spiritual telepathy communions...This could be Tomino's Newtype concept, writ large, for the entire human race, brought about in a short time, a single generation, not through centuries or millenia of natural evolution, as UC Gundam generally has it (cyber-Newtypes aside). This is fascinating

All right. I'm not saying you are or are not right, or to what degree. I'll leave that for the show, as this sort of weirdness expands. But let me just say, the increasing amount of convenient Newtype/Tomino references in Season 2 did not sit well with me. (For various reasons related to this show's AD premise and its parallels to Wing, which I'll get to at the proper time). And yet, I want to say right now that Gundam X, through its DOME speech on the Moon, kind of pointed out the fallacy of the Newtype concept being a primary source of peace and true human evolution.

Setsuna kills Captain Zinin, much to Louise's dismay.

He was given very little time, but Captain "Major Guile" Zinin was one of the more credible grunt pilots in the series.

A-LAWS continues to literally rain terror down on the Middle East, firing Memento Mori again, this time at a military base in the Kingdom of Richiela, wiping it out along with countless civilian refugees next door.

There goes another potential political player...guess they want to focus on CB vs. A-LAWS. But anyway, my Gundam X reference previously about the Estard Arc. There's an arc in the third act of Gundam X where the Vulture crew of the Freeden comes across a set of three kingdoms that are resisting against the domination and rise of the New Federation. The Freeden and its Gundams get pulled into the political and military intrigue going on in a rather memorable arc that has the Gundam pilots experiencing the new, brewing war from new perspectives not totally in line with one another. I thought some of these Middle East kingdoms could have played that sort of role, developing the political and character crises simultaneously in a broader perspective than what we have.

In response to the Memento Mori firings...here comes Ptolemaios and the 00 Raiser to the rescue! This is one of the single most thrilling and fantastic battles I've ever seen in Gundam!...Seriously... AWESOME battle! Great teammwork! I LOVED it! It felt kinda like the Death Star trench from from Star Wars.

This, I will not deny. Brilliant battle sequence; maybe the best "big battle" in Season 2 of 00. It's another of those all-too-brief highlights in Season 2 for me. But let's just say future events related to this may be a bit...upsetting.

Back to the post-Memento Mori battle, the Ptolemaios got ambushed by a large MS/MA force and got damaged, and was forced to land on Earth. Setsuna tried to rendezvous with them in orbit, but couldn't find them, but Nena pointed the way, for whatever reason. I feel like we got cheated out of more dramatic battle, happening entirely off-screen in this case, but the reveal of what happened, with Ian waking up out of regen, opening the door and seeing mountains and trees and birds and blue sky through the gaping hole in the hull, and his reaction, was hilarious.

Yeah, amusing, but also a bit jarring, with that sensation of being rushed along and cheated. Like the Azadistan cut, we start getting these sudden time skips around this point more and more. Also, this was the point I thought Nena would start getting a bigger, more integrated role, but it wasn't in the cards.

Setsuna's back on Earth, searching for the Ptolemaios, when he encounters Ali al-Saachez in the Arche Gundam. Ali leads him to Krugis, for a fateful face-to-face meeting with Ribbons Almark. In a surprise reveal, we learn that it was Ribbons himself piloting the 0 Gundam on that fateful day years ago here in Krugis that completely changed Setsuna's life...Setsuna refuses, draws his pistol to shoot him, but Ali shoots him in the shoulder first.

This battle didn't do anything for me--especially given where we're at in the episode count. Saachez has had much better battles. The fact that Setsuna let him live, touching or not, was annoying to me because Saachez is just sort of "hanging around" in the plot as this artificial foil to the Meisters. They can't seem to decide who's Saachez's true rival, either, if its Setsuna, Tieria, or Lyle, so they don't know who to give the most meaningful fight to. As a result, it comes off a bit hollow in the plot--much like the fourth wall moment. As for the "gunshot plot"...I'll have more to say about that sound and fury later...

However, the idea of meeting Ribbons here and the big reveal about 0 Gundam was interesting. But more interesting in a twist and thematic sort of way than anything given the way its inserted and comes into play in the plot.

Setsuna listens to the song, which is full of hope and happiness, and he tells himself he doesn't know why he's fighting anymore. That's... a rather sudden, dramatic change in attitude, but I guess the telepathy effects would have that affect on him.

I didn't much care for the song subplot. It plays to the growing Newtype themes and i found it hammy. That's just a personal reaction, though. I can see what they're trying to do in the plot. I just think that having a few kids sing a song with a girl at the piano changing an entire bitter battle was too much of a quick contrast, and too reliant on the supernatural elements.

Things are looking ugly, when Tieria's Seravee is fighting Bring's MS, and then we get the Seravee's big surprise - it has a SECOND Gundam as part of it! Tieria is inside the now-revealed Seraphim Gundam, with the Seravee's parts - is it still a whole mobile suit by itself, maybe a remote/drone unit now? - grappling Bring's MS inside its GN Field. The Seraphim penetrates the field as well, and destroys Bring and his MS. Very cool!

Yes, indeed. This is one of those creative "moments" that makes me give Season 2 some points. I liked this scenario and its execution. But, man, these Innovators are kind of pushovers, which is a pretty *@mning revelation when you already have them being these colored-hair, androgynous waifs supposed to be considered the ultimate enemies post-S1.

Say what you want about the Druggies, but you could love to hate them. These Innovators are just throwaways.

She's a musician, and this is where she should be putting her talents to use, creating art to try to help heal not only the orphaned children she's taken charge of, but the whole world. I know a lot of you have complained that she's useless, and I agree that she was until she got stuck with Katharon. Now, she has a purpose. Y'know, not everyone in a Gundam story has to be a MS pilot or a ship crewman or a politician or whatever. The world needs artists and people who create hope. And honestly, I like seeing her in this role, in a little slice-of-life view of 00's world from an outsider watching it, as well as being sort of an ideological and emotional sounding-board for Setsuna as his character grows.

That occasional sounding board for Setsuna seems the most important piece. (They had a good talk, and the talk with ghost-Lockon was good). But about the music and the song...without saying too much, I take issue with its in-show "popularity."

But things are looking grim for our heroes, the Empruss using remote shock-weapons on Seravee and Arios, and just when it looks like they're about to meet their doom, the A-LAWS forces suddenly withdraw.

Reason or not, TOO MANY CONVENIENT RETREATS!

the Fed Forces' coup has started! A coup group has taken control of the Africa orbital elevator. Setsuna gets this news and takes off for the elevator, when he's intercepted by Graham in his Murasao... which goes into Trans-Am Mode! Dunh-dunh-DUNH!!!

A.) It's about time we get some depth to the Fed Forces beyond Sergei. This is the start of a good arc--in theory. I like the setup if not everything else...which may follow a certain pattern...

B.) Speaking of patterns, let's quickly stick in Mr. Bushido and...point out his irrelevance?! Come on, writers!

Hercury said he can't imagine Sergei ever disobeying orders, otherwise Holly would still be-- and Sergei cuts him off. I'm guessing Holly is Sergei's dead wife/Andrei's mother? I wonder what this story is.

Very late but cool flashback is incoming...

The new opening credits seems okay, not sure what to think of it yet...

It's got all the Newtype bodies floating around. You weren't so sure about this in Destiny's later openings, IIRC. But as a whole, the song and visuals work well. It's more exciting than a lot of the in-show parallels perhaps.

I laughed at the little scene on Ptolemy's bridge when it's quietly revealed that pretty much everyone knows Lyle's been playing informant for Katharon. They're so cool about it.

Yeah, the Lyle informant thing didn't play out in a very dynamic way...There is talk that more was originally intended, but who can say.

Fun, exciting, dramatic, fast-paced episodes! I'm still really loving this series, despite minor flaws and complaints. A couple of things are feeling a bit rushed, but not too badly. I'm ready for more 00!

Well, it's good to see you're enjoying it. Unfortunately, aside from the occasional moment or episode, by this point, I was just feeling like I was being led along on cliff notes. I was waiting for it all the synergize and punch me in the gut, but it just kept moving the bar around. It certainly felt "serviceable," but it didn't seem to be maximizing the potential in its setup. More to say after the next set of episodes...

But until then, let me say that despite some rocky moments in Season 1, it was Season 2 that made me like Destiny better as a whole (at least as far as experience...and maybe some day I'll change my mind). I know Destiny stalled out and rushed itself at various points, especially in its last quarter, but most of Season 2, half of a series, gave me that last quarter of Destiny impression for 00. The animation of 00 often has the upper hand, I understand, but there wasn't as many takeaway moments, either in speechifying or in stand-alone emotional resonance for me. (IE: There's nothing quite like Shinn's loss of Stella and then Shinn going nuts on Freedom and crying while laughing at its defeat. That's intense and well led up to. Even the battles often felt a little hollow compared to when Shinn took Lohengren Hill, when he took on all those ships in his first SEED mode after losing a leg to the mobile armor over the water, when he tore the fence off that refugee camp, when he first went up against the three new Gundams with Sword Impulse and then almost got captured by Neo's MA, or when Heine got killed, when Shinn did that wild spin move in Blast Impulse on the water and gored Auel, etc. That all stuck more in my head more so than most of the fights in 00, despite their occasional standout moment or largely consistent high-quality animation).

[Shirin] seems to be doing the admininistrative and intelligence thing, which I think fits her. And hey, what's wrong with fawning over a handsome co-worker?

Just thought we would have gotten more mileage. Maybe a Dorothy Catalonia-type? I just find her independence is sort of tempered by Klaus, making her unable to act without him very well. But she does work well as a support system for Marina. I guess that Katheron is such a bit player, and often useless aside from the occasional fill-in-the-blank moment where the plot suddenly calls for supplies and stuff for CB, doesn't help for me.

Heheh, yeah, one of the great things about Destiny, and something I would love to see more of in Gundam. It's not to say the same things aren't in 00, or even other Gundam shows. The philosophical stuff I eat like candy is always there, just hidden under the surface of actions and dialogue and plot. Destiny just brought it all out into the open, unashamedly baring philosophical fangs though Durandal. Just because these things aren't discussed openly, hit-you-over-the-head style in 00, doens't mean they're not there. I mean, WE'RE talking about them, aren't we? (Well, at least I am. I often feel like the lone guy with the radical, whacky ideas in a room full of normal people. ) To me, if a show makes me THINK as well as feel, then it's probably good entertainment.

Oh, believe me, I eat this stuff up! Hence part of my love of Wing. I think 00 has it, yes, but it was more significant in Season 1 than 2...and even then, some of the words of people like Durandal, Rau, Heine, etc just can't be beat in most of 00. Sometimes 00 seems more "to the point" and, as you've seen, "supernatural" in its presentation.

the Arche Gundam, I think, looks better than the Thrones, which didn't really grab me much.

I think I agree there. The only one that might compete for me was Johan's Throne, which I thought was pretty neat in design.

I just had a silly thought about the Seravee... but I'll share it later today in my post on S2 eps 11 thru 15...

I don't think I caught it. Was it in there, or did you forget?

I'll confess it's been so long since I've watched Gundam X that I'm drawing a blank on your reference. The Memento Mori feels like a cheap plot point meant to rush the plot along, and I wish they'd done something else, too. But... as I'll post later today... it did serve as a pretty exciting battlefield...

True, and I noted the Gundam X alternative piece above.

That 4th wall bit was jarring. And at first, I was confused as to how Setsuna and Marina were suddenly back at the Katharon base, not having fought Ali, but thinking on it, it makes sense. I'm sure Marina would have liked to have landed and start trying to save any survivors, but Ali wouldn't let them. And I don't think Setsuna would want to put Marina in direct danger and start a fight with Ali, so taking her back to the Katharon base was the wise choice. But it still feels like we got cheated out of a cool fight a bit.

Yeah, here's my thing: How did Ali not see them? He has Ribbons' support, he has a GN machine, Setsuna has a GN machine. Some kind of warning beacon should have gone off.

It's called "crossdressing." Some men are VERY good at it, and some even have the right body for it. And considering the androgynous forms of the Innovators, I'm not surprised in the least that Tieria could pull it off perfectly.

But what about the seamless anatomical add-ons on the upper body? That's what I find the most strange about this. Can Innovators transform/mold their bodies? Because that wasn't like some sort of artificial device based on how the animation presented it. Oh, well...creepy. (But the scene was still well done--it added a on-foot mission variety I would have liked to see more of).

[reeoyuy]

And buh-bye, Major Rindt, ya scumbag!

Have you noticed Judau Ashta voice in that guy?

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

I totally don't trust the new girl, Anew Returner. She's totally an Innovator spy, though I think she's a "sleeper," unaware of what she really is and what she's doing. She keeps pointing out "how are they able to find us" over and over, when the first time one of the Innovator A-LAWS pilots (I can't keep them straight, they all have day-glo/pastel colored hair and weird-as-hell names, with no particularly interesting personalities, they're all the same to me) somehow detects and locates CB's secret dock at the L3 asteroids. Anew seems to be distracted for a sec, and Lockon Lyle asks her about it. So totally a spy. But a darned cute one. She also bonds a bith with Lockon Lyle. And she's taken the Ptolemy's helm station now, much to Lasse's relief.

Ah poor beautiful Anew. Yeah it is pretty obvious that Anew is a an Innovator spy what with her candy-colored hair, but she is an interesting character, probably the only other interesting Innovator besides Regene and Ribbons.

Kati Mannequin's A-LAWS space force now knows where Ptolemaios is hiding and launches their attack, and it's a VERY exciting battle! The ship and the other Gundams are nearly overwhelmed, as CB abandons their L3 base. Lots of whacky new tech, like heat source hiding cloaks for A-LAWS MSs and other specialized weapons designed to penetrate GN Fields, and 00 is using those handy anti-beam gas/spray missiles that I really liked in SEED/Destiny. Things look bad for our heroes, and Ptolemy takes a nasty hit to the 0-Raiser's hanger, landing poor Ian in a regen tank for a while. But Saji takes out the 0-Raiser and links it up with Setsuna's 00... and kicks off what I think is A Big Deal. A VERY Big Deal.

Since she's finally realized who she's up against, Kati's tactics continually challenge Sumeragi. And I point I would like to bring up is, if Kati joined A-LAWS already knowing that there was shady stuff going on, why is she so hell-bent on destroying Celestial Being?

About the weird naked space generated by the 00Raiser, you're close, very close. I'm not sure how Aeolia discovered the link between the GN Particles and quantum brainwaves (maybe when he was working on Veda?) but here we discover one of the essential secrets of true GN Drives and yes, they are more than just a weapon. As for the dialogues... keep watching.

Whew... okay, philosopher mode off now. Back to the battle! Setsuna kills Captain Zinin, much to Louise's dismay. The 00 Raiser looks fantastic and kicks much butt in very dramatic fashion! I loved the Exia's design, and I wasn't crazy about 00, but the 00 looks much more appealing with the Raiser, and I'm normally not a fan of Gundam add-on kibble. Setsuna destroys the two Innovator pilots' MSs, though they both eject and get away. Overall it's just a VERY weird and crazy fight! With the mass telepathy and other surreal happenings with Trans-Am 00 Raiser, this battle feels very unique, very different from everything that's come before. Ribbons remote-views this battle and is shocked by what happened with the 00 Raiser. He says "the suit quantized. A Gundam power that even I wasn't aware of...?!" I think this means that the Twin Engine System, in addition to GN Particles, can also create quantum particles, which the original GN reactors hadn't been able to do before (and thus caused the quantum brainwave reactions from Allelujah and Marie). Yep... definitely pointing to 00 being a "mass telepath awakening" machine...

I like the 00 in any form! And as I've said, it is most certainly not a spam machine like the Strike Freedom. Also the weird teleport thing that that the 00 does, the full implications of that will show up and be a very important part of the movie.

Oh, and right after this, Wang walks up to Ribbons, asks what's the matter, and he slaps her and calls her a greedy bitch! Hahahaha! She had that coming. But seriously... where'd you learn to talk like that, Amuro?

As much as I don't like even animated women getting slapped around, yes, Wang did have this one coming for a LONG time. Ribbons has her number down pat.

00 Raiser saves the day, and Ptolemy and the CB shuttles escape the base. Louise's CO Captain Zirin is killed, much to her dismay. She's has a very psychotic, hate-fueled moment, thinking that Saji has been a member of CB all this time she's known him, having lived next door to Setsuna in Tokyo, and that she's been used. She deletes her pictures of Saji, and when Andrei confronts her about knowing someone in CB, following the 00 Raiser's area-wide telepathy effect, she says Saji's not a friend anymore. Yeah... this poor girl has lost it, and if she wasn't running on anger and hurt before, she sure is now.

Yeah, poor Zinnin, he wasn't actually a "bad guy" and actually had a legitimate grievance with Kataron and CB, which only serves to fuel Louise's hatred combined with what she sees as Saji's betrayal.

Saji, on the other hand, wants Louise back, wants to "save her" from A-LAWS. Setsuna says if he wants her back, he has to fight, but Saji refuses to kill. Saji wants his past, his good times and his undamaged, innocent Louise back, but Setsuna says HE'S not fighting to fix a past mistake, he's fighting for a future. Interesting to see this contrast between them (and it shows how much Setsuna's grown, I think). Saji does come close to pulling a Katz/Hathaway and making an unauthorized launch in the 0-Raiser to go find her, but fortunately he doesn't, knowing he could make the same mistake he did at the Katharon desert base.

Say what you will about Saji, he could have been the next Katz/Hathaway, as you say, but restrains himself and shows a bit of maturity in the process.

A-LAWS continues to literally rain terror down on the Middle East, firing Memento Mori again, this time at a military base in the Kingdom of Richiela, wiping it out along with countless civilian refugees next door. The Federation President issues a gag order about the existence and use of the weapon, which Sergei Smirnov is clearly not happy about. He's approached by an old friend, Colonel Pang Hercury, who tells him there's a coup d'etat force gathering inside the Federation Forces, that intends to overthrow the Fed government and their A-LAWS puppet-masters. He's not asking Sergei to join, but to stay out of the way when the coup happens. The coup group also contacts Katharon, and Klaus and Shirin meets with their rep. The coup group is not asking for an alliance with Katharon (and CB) right away, but to wait and let them take action first. Well, Katharon's been stomped again and again due to their small numbers and outdated military hardware. A coup attempt by regular military forces, if they have the numbers, might stand a chance.

Hercule thinks he's in the right but doesn't know what we the audience know about A-LAWS and their mysterious benefactors...

In response to the Memento Mori firings, Katharon mobilizes its space fleet to attack it. Part of their attack force is wiped out by the weapon, when it's revealed to be able to fire out into space as well as on Earth. One of the Innovator pilots, Hiling Care, is with the A-LAWS fleet guarding Memento Mori, in her BFG-armed Gadessa MS, and she snipes more Katharon ships. But suddenly, here comes Ptolemaios and the 00 Raiser to the rescue! This is one of the single most thrilling and fantastic battles I've ever seen in Gundam! Setsuna distracts Hiling so the Ptolemy can move on Memento Mori. Sumeragi's plan is absolutely brilliant, and its execution is nail-biting! The bait-and-switch Trans-Aming of the ship when MM fires at it, to give them a window to attack it while it recharges, and the zooming along the solar power array ring at incredible speed, giving and taking fire... Arios providing the Trans-Am energy, while Cherudim provides defense with its SHIELD BITS! The shields bits are soooooo awesome! Seravee uses its Yamato gun to blast a hole open in MM, and Lockon Lyle snipes the killing shots. It blew up and I cheered! And buh-bye, Major Rindt, ya scumbag! Seriously... AWESOME battle! Great teammwork! I LOVED it! It felt kinda like the Death Star trench from from Star Wars.

Yep! Definitely one of the best sequences in 00 perhaps in all of Gundam!

And to help make this possible... much to my own surprise... NENA watches the battle, and sends coded data to the Ptolemaios containing Memento Mori's structural data! And after the main fight is done, Hiling tries to attack retreating Setsuna, but Nene provides cover... and then confronts and greets Setsuna afterwards. As if Wang playing all sides against each other wasn't enough, now we've got Nena doing her OWN shennanigans, too! She's clearly has issues working with the people who killed her brothers. Maybe she's ultimately out for revenge, pretending to be Wang's and Ribbons' good little errand girl, but her own actions feel even pettier than Wang's. In one scene at Ribbons' lair, Wang tells Nena, "You're not as special as you think you are." Hmm...

We already know Nena's incredible capacity for spiteful sociopathy so this shouldn't come as too great a shock.

Back to the post-Memento Mori battle, the Ptolemaios got ambushed by a large MS/MA force and got damaged, and was forced to land on Earth. Setsuna tried to rendezvous with them in orbit, but couldn't find them, but Nena pointed the way, for whatever reason. I feel like we got cheated out of more dramatic battle, happening entirely off-screen in this case, but the reveal of what happened, with Ian waking up out of regen, opening the door and seeing mountains and trees and birds and blue sky through the gaping hole in the hull, and his reaction, was hilarious.

NA-NA-NNNNNAAAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDAAAAAA-TTTOOOOO???!!!
I also like how Nena once again tries to hit on Setsuna and he just completely blows her off.

Setsuna's back on Earth, searching for the Ptolemaios, when he encounters Ali al-Saachez in the Arche Gundam. Ali leads him to Krugis, for a fateful face-to-face meeting with Ribbons Almark. In a surprise reveal, we learn that it was Ribbons himself piloting the 0 Gundam on that fateful day years ago here in Krugis that completely changed Setsuna's life. (And I find it an amusing homage that the character who piloted (what I assume to be) the first Gundam in this series is voiced by the actor who also played the first Gundam pilot ever. ) Ribbons says that that intervention was a field test for 0 Gundam, and The Plan(tm) originally called for elimination of all witnesses, but he spared Setsuna's life, because of how he reacted to the 0 Gundam. Ribbons also claims that he used Veda to recomment Setsuna as a Gundam Meister later on. Setsuna's services are no longer required, and by all rights, Ribbons should be piloting the 00 Gundam. Setsuna refuses, draws his pistol to shoot him, but Ali shoots him in the shoulder first.

This really floored me when we found out that Ribbons was the 0 Gundam pilot. It helped to explain a lot of things that I had been wondering about because if Ribbons is a former Meister, then he's been connected to the inner workings of CB for a long, long time. But obviously he doesn't know everything like he likes to think.

Setsuna listens to the song, which is full of hope and happiness, and he tells himself he doesn't know why he's fighting anymore. That's... a rather sudden, dramatic change in attitude, but I guess the telepathy effects would have that affect on him.

I liked how it had the opposite effect on Ali, just pissing him off.

Afterwards, Setsuna makes his way to Katharon's base, where Marina is staying. He passes out from the gunshot wound, and wakes up in her care, bandaged up. He'll need time to heal up, since they don't have regeneration equipment there. And the two take the time to talk, share their histories, get to know and understand each other better.

After the discussion in this thread, I feel I understand Marina's role a bit more but there's still no way I believe that there's anything romantic going on between those two.

Meanwhile, Ptolemaios has been repaired enough to move, but unable to defend itself yet. They're going to meet up with a Katharon supply convoy in Europe, when they're attacked by two of the Innovator A-LAWS pilots. Things are looking ugly, when Tieria's Seravee is fighting Bring's MS, and then we get the Seravee's big surprise - it has a SECOND Gundam as part of it! Tieria is inside the now-revealed Seraphim Gundam, with the Seravee's parts - is it still a whole mobile suit by itself, maybe a remote/drone unit now? - grappling Bring's MS inside its GN Field. The Seraphim penetrates the field as well, and destroys Bring and his MS. Very cool!

Tieria is the king of hidden mobile suits! Take that Master Paptimus!

The red-haired Innovator pilot gets a new mobile armor called the Empruss. Louise sees it and asks about it, and is told that it's a prototype for a machine that will eventually be Louise's as a token of appreciation from Ribbons. I smell a Four/Psyco-Gundam/Stella/Destroy thing coming...

In a way.

Graham gets his new custom MS from Billy, called the Masurao. Graham's happy to see it resembles his old beloved Flag, and Billy tells him its GN drive incorporates some data he found at Professor Elfman's home. After this, Billy tears up a photo of him with Leesa Kujo/Sumeragi. I'm surprised he didn't do this earlier.

I forget, Masurao means something important in Japanese right?

Kati is back to running her naval task force, still hunting for the Ptolemaios and its Gundams. Billy is assigned to her force, and she launches a major attack on Ptolemy. Lockon Lyle manages to snipe a bunch of the A-LAWS MSs in Trans-Am mode, but then has to sit out the rest of the battle, fighting off attackers while Tieria and Allelujah cover him and handle the rest. But things are looking grim for our heroes, the Empruss using remote shock-weapons on Seravee and Arios, and just when it looks like they're about to meet their doom, the A-LAWS forces suddenly withdraw.

The reason why is quickly revealed - the Fed Forces' coup has started! A coup group has taken control of the Africa orbital elevator. Setsuna gets this news and takes off for the elevator, when he's intercepted by Graham in his Murasao... which goes into Trans-Am Mode! Dunh-dunh-DUNH!!!

A timely intervention wouldn't you say? Hercule shows his tactics by taking control of the elevator which he's com[letely confident that no one would dare attack. Right?
And I get floored again when the Masurao switched on Trans-Graham mode. Ooooohhhhh CRAP!

Does Kati know about the Innovators, and that her new MS pilots are such?

She certainly has her suspicions...

Hercury said he can't imagine Sergei ever disobeying orders, otherwise Holly would still be-- and Sergei cuts him off. I'm guessing Holly is Sergei's dead wife/Andrei's mother? I wonder what this story is.

Holly is indeed Sergei's dead wife. Look like the Wild Bear of Russia has some skeletons in his closet.

The new opening credits seems okay, not sure what to think of it yet. The new closing song is good, though the visuals are very "artsy" and weird.

[/quote]
I admit, it was a little jarring the first time after having such little fanservice to all of a sudden have Marina, Louise, Feldt and Anew all naked. Meh, it was the last intro anyway.

And for LightningCount, how is the Suille Kingdom a red-herring? The whole point of that sequence was to produce drama for the first firing of the Memento Mori by having it not only wipe out a city full of people but to get bonus points in offing some Kataron leaders.

And didn't Loran Cehack's VA have a cameo in 00?

And another little humorous aside, supplementals tell us that Linda was 18 when she gave birth to Mileina. If we assume that Mileina might have been a wedding night or honeymoon baby, then Ian would have been about FORTY-THREE when he got married to Linda. Oh Ian, you hound!

[Burke Rukes]

Oh, believe me, I eat this stuff up! Hence part of my love of Wing. I think 00 has it, yes, but it was more significant in Season 1 than 2...and even then, some of the words of people like Durandal, Rau, Heine, etc just can't be beat in most of 00. Sometimes 00 seems more "to the point" and, as you've seen, "supernatural" in its presentation.

Yeah, the supernatural/Newtype-ish stuff we're seeing now in 00 is weird, and I do agree that Destiny had memorable dialogue and intense fights and drama in spades. I think overall, the story for 00 is very good, and the characters are intriguing, but I think the key difference between SEED/Destiny and 00 is that the CE-verse feels more character driven, focusing on the characters and their dramas, their emotions very much driving hte plot. 00, on the other hand, has the plot driving the characters. Your analogy about 00 feeling like a "Cliff's notes" plot makes sense to me, and aside from some minor things getting dropped or skipped, I do think the pacing is good, and the story is still very enjoyable nonetheless. Unless something very very bad happens in the last 10 episodes that totally kills it for me.

I just had a silly thought about the Seravee... but I'll share it later today in my post on S2 eps 11 thru 15...

I don't think I caught it. Was it in there, or did you forget?

Oops, I did forget! Okay, silly thought. When Seraphim was revealed while Seravee was grappling with Bring's MS (don't know the name), the Seravee component/armor was grappled tight, while all these OTHER hands and limbs were springing out... thinking on it, I may actually draw this up, a cartoon image of Seravee-armor and Seraphim tag-team hugging and squeezing Bring's MS real tight, with the picture captioned "I WUV YOU THIIIIIIIIS MUCH!" My decription is kinda weak - I'll just have to draw it up and share it.

It's called "crossdressing." Some men are VERY good at it, and some even have the right body for it. And considering the androgynous forms of the Innovators, I'm not surprised in the least that Tieria could pull it off perfectly.

But what about the seamless anatomical add-ons on the upper body? That's what I find the most strange about this. Can Innovators transform/mold their bodies? Because that wasn't like some sort of artificial device based on how the animation presented it. Oh, well...creepy. (But the scene was still well done--it added a on-foot mission variety I would have liked to see more of).

Probably the same way they do it in the movies, I'm sure real-life crossdressers do the same thing. Two words: prosthetics, makeup.

And I point I would like to bring up is, if Kati joined A-LAWS already knowing that there was shady stuff going on, why is she so hell-bent on destroying Celestial Being?

Maybe, as she argues in regards to the roles of tactical forecasters, she knows conflict - and thus, a radical group like A-LAWS, is an inevitability, so she wants to "do her part" and thus try to keep the casualties to a minimum?

This really floored me when we found out that Ribbons was the 0 Gundam pilot. It helped to explain a lot of things that I had been wondering about because if Ribbons is a former Meister, then he's been connected to the inner workings of CB for a long, long time. But obviously he doesn't know everything like he likes to think.

Which is one big question I have about the Innovators - how long have they been out and about and active? Assuming they were created by Schenberg himself, or maybe by Veda later on, have they only been around for the last 10 years or so, from around the time 0 Gundam appeared? Or has Ribbons been around for decades, or even centuries? And where did Tieria come from? Is he a "new model"? What memories or experiences does he have prior to being a Gundam Meister in the fighting that started 5 years ago? Enquiring minds want to know!

I liked how it had the opposite effect on Ali, just pissing him off.

Yeah, lovey dovey sappy music doesn't work on everyone.

After the discussion in this thread, I feel I understand Marina's role a bit more but there's still no way I believe that there's anything romantic going on between those two.

Nope, no romance between them. I'm not sure how to describe it, but these two have a pretty special bond. Not romantic love, I'm not even sure I'd call it friendship, in a conventional sense. But it's something they both need from each other, whatever it is.

And another little humorous aside, supplementals tell us that Linda was 18 when she gave birth to Mileina. If we assume that Mileina might have been a wedding night or honeymoon baby, then Ian would have been about FORTY-THREE when he got married to Linda. Oh Ian, you hound!

Then I'm guessing Linda is probably in her mid-30s or so. So Ian is maybe 8 years older than Linda. It's not that unusual, I've known a few married couples with differences of 10-15 years.

[AmuroNT1]

I forget, Masurao means something important in Japanese right?

The Japanese Wikipedia gives the Masurao a kanji'd name (磨修羅生), which...well, here's a breakdown on an individual basis:
磨 = Grind/polish/improve
修 = Discipline/master/study
羅 = Gauze/thin silk/Rome
生 = Life/birth

Maybe it's meant to be something like "Improving and mastering this ephemeral life"? Or maybe Graham just picked out kanji that would phonetically spell out "Ma-Su-Ra-Oh" without really caring what they mean. Hell, I dunno.

Also, like I said in an earlier post, Loran's VA plays Regene.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Yeah, the supernatural/Newtype-ish stuff we're seeing now in 00 is weird, and I do agree that Destiny had memorable dialogue and intense fights and drama in spades. I think overall, the story for 00 is very good, and the characters are intriguing, but I think the key difference between SEED/Destiny and 00 is that the CE-verse feels more character driven, focusing on the characters and their dramas, their emotions very much driving hte plot. 00, on the other hand, has the plot driving the characters. Your analogy about 00 feeling like a "Cliff's notes" plot makes sense to me, and aside from some minor things getting dropped or skipped, I do think the pacing is good, and the story is still very enjoyable nonetheless. Unless something very very bad happens in the last 10 episodes that totally kills it for me.

Focus on the characters and certain things we've already discussed is why some people like to decry CE as a soap opera and "not Gundam."

Which is one big question I have about the Innovators - how long have they been out and about and active?

All I can say that isn't a total spoiler is that Ribbons created the current crop we see on screen.

Nope, no romance between them. I'm not sure how to describe it, but these two have a pretty special bond. Not romantic love, I'm not even sure I'd call it friendship, in a conventional sense. But it's something they both need from each other, whatever it is.

I think of it as an Amuro/Lalah thing.

Then I'm guessing Linda is probably in her mid-30s or so. So Ian is maybe 8 years older than Linda. It's not that unusual, I've known a few married couples with differences of 10-15 years.

You're partially right. Linda is 32 in season 2 but Ian is, get ready for it......... Fifty-seven!

[APendragon]

Nope, no romance between them. I'm not sure how to describe it, but these two have a pretty special bond. Not romantic love, I'm not even sure I'd call it friendship, in a conventional sense. But it's something they both need from each other, whatever it is.

I think of it as an Amuro/Lalah thing.

Ummm, I was thinking in the manga (or maybe the novelization?) that

Spoiler

it clarifies that when Setsuna comes back post-ELS, he restores Marina's sight, youth, and marries her?

[flamingtroll]

I forget, Masurao means something important in Japanese right?

The Japanese Wikipedia gives the Masurao a kanji'd name (磨修羅生)

That's the manyougana, that's how Japanese used to spell their words before inventing hiragana. The actual word is 益荒男, which means "courageous man"

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Nope, no romance between them. I'm not sure how to describe it, but these two have a pretty special bond. Not romantic love, I'm not even sure I'd call it friendship, in a conventional sense. But it's something they both need from each other, whatever it is.

I think of it as an Amuro/Lalah thing.

Ummm, I was thinking in the manga (or maybe the novelization?) that

Spoiler

it clarifies that when Setsuna comes back post-ELS, he restores Marina's sight, youth, and marries her?

Spoiler

That doesn't really amount to much. First of all, is the manga and/or novelization written by the same guy who wrote Gundam 00? Second, generally speaking Sunrise and Bandai don't consider mangas, novels, video games and etc. as "official" with some exceptions. Third of all it makes no sense. Setsuna said in the anime that he doesn't have "that kind" of relationship with Marina.

Additional

Spoiler

Yes, the manga was written by someone else.

[Dark Duel]

Oh, do you want to be really impressed? Tieria's "woman" voice from the party episode was provided by...Hiroshi Kamiya, his regular voice actor. Apparently being able to pull off a convincing female voice is a talent of his.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN. That's even freakier. I mean, Loran was voiced by a woman in Turn-A, but for a dude to be able to pull off a female voice like that is INSANE.
Seriously ups the freaky factor of that scene in my book. Though it's still AWESOME.

[SonicSP]

Spoiler

That doesn't really amount to much. First of all, is the manga and/or novelization written by the same guy who wrote Gundam 00? Second, generally speaking Sunrise and Bandai don't consider mangas, novels, video games and etc. as "official" with some exceptions. Third of all it makes no sense. Setsuna said in the anime that he doesn't have "that kind" of relationship with Marina.

Additional

Spoiler

Yes, the manga was written by someone else.

Sidematerials may not be official as Sunrise claims but they also claim to be in the "grey" area while the anime is "white" and video games are black. Knowing what is what in Gundam can be complicated because even the condensation movies can contradict the TV Series at times; which is a sad fact for 00 if the movies are the better source because some of the changes in SEIII were really bad save for the improvements of the battle scenes. For example, the fact that Saji's all guilty run with Katharon is totally eliminated by chance because the two battles before or after the episode were merged into one; which means it can't possibly happen rather than something that was "just not shown".

Gundam 00's sidestories and sidematerials do not contradict the anime for the most part (although sometimes they can feel a bit weird; especially 00I) and neither do the novelisation (the scenes that are adapted are perfect almost word by word for those who have read it; it only expands info based on narration and internal monologues) which Kuroda claims at the end of Novel 1 are meant to reveal some monologue and narration they can't do in the anime and officially endorsed it; hell he made it sound like it was his idea.

The manga adaptations by contrast are another story. They directly contradict the anime in many ways and even take story paths of their own, this goes for S1, S2 and the movie mangas so they are not reliable as canon sources.

Movie and Movie Manga spoilers

Spoiler

For example, the movie manga adaption, Graham dies by fighting an ELS Gadelalza rather than suicidal against the entrance and a bunch of ELS 00 Raiser also appear. There are many other differences as well from the accounts I've heard. Much as I absolutely love the MarinaxSetsuna scene at the end of it, its not really a reliable canon source, they're not the type of people to suddenly do that anyways.

I'm still satisfied with what I got at the end of the movie though. Very satisfied indeed.

I say Setsuna's relationship with Marina is quite a complex affair I believe, its not just one way or the other easily definable relationships.

[LightningCount]

And for LightningCount, how is the Suille Kingdom a red-herring? The whole point of that sequence was to produce drama for the first firing of the Memento Mori by having it not only wipe out a city full of people but to get bonus points in offing some Kataron leaders.

To me it felt like one because the narrative said we're sending characters, characters of Katheron who Lyle is a part of and who are supposed to be important to the 00 world's structure, toward Suille. Something is going to be set up, finally making Katheron relevant in a practical sense. And then, BOOM, Suille is gone, and the setup leads to nothing but the introduction of a super-weapon. Instead of doing anything delicate with a scalpel plot-wise, like they led me to believe with the lead up with the JNN guy working for Klaus/Shirin going there and such, it's just another heavy-handed hammer to show how "evil" A-LAWS and Ribbons are. *shrugs* They like to crush or gloss over potential explorations of world and character development to keep the story moving at a faster and faster rate. Time and again, we see arcs end with a single sweep of the hand from Ribbons, which, even if effective to show his power and evil, are pretty one-dimensional and cliche.

To see a more subtle, rich example of the concept Suille and other Middle East kingdoms seemed to be poised to do alongside Katheron narrative-wise, see the Gundam X Estard Arc, episodes 25-28. To do so would be more consistent with the kind of more careful development that was sprinkled into Season 1 during episodes like Taribia or arcs like the Azadistan story. It would perhaps add to help keeping a better consistency of tone between the two seasons.

Spoiler

The Break Pillar arc is another example of a heavy-handed, rushed affair that could have been more interesting and measured, like the earlier stuff I mentioned from Season 1. (Instead, return of the Momento Mori to slap the plot in the face) Together, both of these political tales would have perhaps carried over those tones the series was based on in Season 1 if handled as noted.

(And now, I have to bite my tongue. I remembered that Gundam X is only 39 episodes; it wasn't even allowed its full run of 49 for whatever reason. The ground it covered, the world and "family" of cast it built up, the atmosphere...if it had had those 10 extra episodes, man...I really lament that loss. But even if bittersweet, Gundam X was still special, even with 39 episodes. It's in my top tier, but it would have challenged a lot closer to number 1 with those lost episodes. I guess my point is how crazy it is that Gundam X only had 39 episodes, and it was able to cram in more nuanced scenarios and character development than 00, IMO.)

Yeah, the supernatural/Newtype-ish stuff we're seeing now in 00 is weird, and I do agree that Destiny had memorable dialogue and intense fights and drama in spades. I think overall, the story for 00 is very good, and the characters are intriguing, but I think the key difference between SEED/Destiny and 00 is that the CE-verse feels more character driven, focusing on the characters and their dramas, their emotions very much driving the plot. 00, on the other hand, has the plot driving the characters. Your analogy about 00 feeling like a "Cliff's notes" plot makes sense to me, and aside from some minor things getting dropped or skipped, I do think the pacing is good, and the story is still very enjoyable nonetheless. Unless something very very bad happens in the last 10 episodes that totally kills it for me.

It's good to hear I'm not totally off base by using the term "Cliff's notes," even if it isn't popular. Disregarding the uniting of the world in Season 1, all this supernatural stuff and each of the characters and battles would have been served better from a deeper exploration, so that I could feel the transition of one premise to another was more logical and I'd feel more intimately connected to the characters. (Yes, we've got a stratified, 25/25 season setup, but why did they assume that would work for such a big-scale concept, when that format would clearly not work in past works like 0079 to Zeta or SEED to Destiny? It's hamstringing the writers, and Sunrise/Bandai said they wanted a solid "3rd fanbase" to grow out of this next to UC and CE fans). 00 is more interested in the big picture, but even big picture series can benefit from spending more time one-on-one with characters. As it is, I kind of get this feeling that we've got a checklist of loose plot points that are being checked off one by one, and Season 2 decided to add a bunch of additional plot points that make it more reminiscent of Tomino and tacked on traditional Gundam tropes to boot (maybe to make viewers more comfortable). In the end, I feel like I got close to the bare minimum of rounded characters--and this was especially so for the rivals/villains. I'm not saying I hate 00, as it is ambitious and still manages to be fun and memorable to a certain extent. But it also feels somewhat "distant/aloof." As such, I can't rank it as high as I want to as a whole (just counting the TV series, as I've yet to see the Movie), because it didn't feel committed to the nitty-gritty of what it set up in front of us, and I find myself being most fond of the first half of Season 1. But I digress, for now...

As far as pacing, it keeps a certain clip...but, I guess I have a hard time figuring out the "destination" of CB in Season 2. They remind me of the Archangel in Destiny, when they were trying to figure out where to go to and intervene to make their impact (which wasn't a good thing in Destiny). We're going places, trying to check off hanging threads here, running into short-lived hit-and-run Innovators there, but it feels like we're just being given the run around more often than not.

Oops, I did forget! Okay, silly thought. When Seraphim was revealed while Seravee was grappling with Bring's MS (don't know the name), the Seravee component/armor was grappled tight, while all these OTHER hands and limbs were springing out... thinking on it, I may actually draw this up, a cartoon image of Seravee-armor and Seraphim tag-team hugging and squeezing Bring's MS real tight, with the picture captioned "I WUV YOU THIIIIIIIIS MUCH!" My decription is kinda weak - I'll just have to draw it up and share it.

Heh, I could see that being pretty crazy. I think I get it.