Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

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Sume Gai
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

LightningCount wrote:To me it felt like one because the narrative said we're sending characters, characters of Katheron who Lyle is a part of and who are supposed to be important to the 00 world's structure, toward Suille. Something is going to be set up, finally making Katheron relevant in a practical sense. And then, BOOM, Suille is gone, and the setup leads to nothing but the introduction of a super-weapon. Instead of doing anything delicate with a scalpel plot-wise, like they led me to believe with the lead up with the JNN guy working for Klaus/Shirin going there and such, it's just another heavy-handed hammer to show how "evil" A-LAWS and Ribbons are. *shrugs*
So a subordinate of Katharon who we've only just met (I know he was in S1 but he never really stood out there either did he?) being sent to investigate a country which was mentioned only a few moments ago is an indication that something important is about to happen? I'm sorry no matter how you put this it seems like a stretch.
They like to crush or gloss over potential explorations of world and character development to keep the story moving at a faster and faster rate.

What world exploration or character development would have been possible in Suile? We already have a fairly good idea what the middle east is like already and none of the principle characters are really connected to this place in any way.
Time and again, we see arcs end with a single sweep of the hand from Ribbons, which, even if effective to show his power and evil, are pretty one-dimensional and cliche.
the use of a super weapon may be cliche but I must point out the way Ribbons uses this one is pretty unique. He uses it carefully so that word of it's existence never gets out to the public.
Spoiler
this is best demonstrated in the next three episodes.
To see a more subtle, rich example of the concept Suille and other Middle East kingdoms seemed to be poised to do alongside Katheron narrative-wise, see the Gundam X Estard Arc, episodes 25-28. To do so would be more consistent with the kind of more careful development that was sprinkled into Season 1 during episodes like Taribia or arcs like the Azadistan story. It would perhaps add to help keeping a better consistency of tone between the two seasons.
I don't see the potential at all, Katharon has already proven it cannot resist the Federation in any direct manner and I doubt Suile would have any better luck. If this had been a normal military action I highly doubt CB would have done anything. Don't forget even if they want to stop the A-LAWS CB -doesn't- aim to tear down the Federation as a whole, in fact, as we saw in Taribia CB would want to see the smaller entity absorbed into the larger.
Spoiler
The Break Pillar arc is another example of a heavy-handed, rushed affair that could have been more interesting and measured, like the earlier stuff I mentioned from Season 1. (Instead, return of the Momento Mori to slap the plot in the face) Together, both of these political tales would have perhaps carried over those tones the series was based on in Season 1 if handled as noted.
Spoiler
this particular arc is actually my favorite use of a super weapon in Gundam, -ever-. It wasn't just *BOOM* let's kill lots of innocent people. It was a carefully crafted plan to sure up the Federations position in a number of ways. How many other characters can use something like the Momento Mori to improve public image? Lets not forget it also gives the regular A-LAWS something the Titans -never- got a chance to do, collectively play the hero.
They remind me of the Archangel in Destiny, when they were trying to figure out where to go to and intervene to make their impact (which wasn't a good thing in Destiny).
It's very true that CB was lost, unsure where to go and how to act which is why finding Veda and Tieria's personal conflict are important parts of this season and why Nena and Wang are essential characters. What I think makes this better than the Archangel Destiny is CB steps out swiftly and clearly looking for the answers; IE Tieria going to Ribbons ball.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Comparing GX's Estard arc to the Sullie and ME kingdoms is not really fair. The Estard arc is interesting as they deal with some of the characters development and how other countries view the new Federation(?). As for Sullie and the ME kingdoms, they dont really have much to offer besides maybe some more opinons on the A-laws/earth gov by the kingdoms, which will most probably be negative and nothing much new.
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LightningCount
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Sume Gai wrote:So a subordinate of Katharon who we've only just met (I know he was in S1 but he never really stood out there either did he?) being sent to investigate a country which was mentioned only a few moments ago is an indication that something important is about to happen? I'm sorry no matter how you put this it seems like a stretch.
I was stating my opinion on narrative structure. I'm not going to make a huge argument out of such a small point in the big picture and stall things out in the thread, but I will be courteous to respond to your response since you asked.

So, to your point: Then why even include a guy from Season 1? (esp. someone connected to the underused legacy of Kinue?) Why not just include some random no-name? Don't try to force meaning on a non-event. Why bring up this deal that there's going to be an important meeting a few moments before? But most important to this point, is that it seals the deal that Klaus, Shirin, and Katharon, whom Lyle, a Meister, is linked to, are almost superfluous to the plot, except to fill in a blank of an obligatory "resistance" who pops in and out. They didn't even need established characters in their ranks for their role if they weren't going to be of import.
Sume Gai wrote:What world exploration or character development would have been possible in Suile? We already have a fairly good idea what the middle east is like already and none of the principle characters are really connected to this place in any way.
This was an opportunity to make CB's actions more interlinked with the larger conflict they are fighting in--the battle against A-LAWS. The Middle East has been an important staple of the 00 world, the mentioning of GN-Tau transmitters etc, and the land is connected to Marina, Shirin, Saachez, and Setsuna. Moreover, since it was Katharon setting things up (a resistance based in the Middle East, IIRC), it would be linked to Lyle. I won't be presumptuous to say what the specific plot points would be within these parameters, especially since I don't like the limited structure Season 2 gives us--but, if you have an element there, I think it's worth utilizing, that's all. As Burke has said, CB alone can't change the world, they need structures to make the peace in their wake, and this could be a breeding ground for at least some philosophical discussion on such frameworks. That in of itself would go a long way for depth instead of just assuming in the plot that Aeolia's Plan--either through Ribbons or CB--is the right way to go. As Burke noted, who said it's A-OK. In fact, the plot originally called for CB to be punished in a permanent manner...not just the temporary defeat of Season 1's conclusion.

Moreover, like the Estard Arc I mentioned (to E08's point), it might give the Meisters and other characters a chance for one-on-one development. For instance, it could give Marina and Setsuna a chance for some more organic development, instead of just being cooped up in isolated scenarios where they can talk. (A lot of what they talked about later could have been addressed here in their element). Thus, making the personal development and dialogues between characters more connected to the action of the big picture. And you save time for other developments in later episodes perhaps, by condensing, converging (and one other word on the tip of my tongue that means "thickening") important points and talks together, instead of spreading them out thin. Because that "distant" feeling I get from this series, it feels like there's a disconnect between the movement of plot and characters. The characters only move when the plot tells them to; the two don't work in concert, affecting one another more organically, so that emotions build.

An example:
Spoiler
It's time to kill Sergei. Let's insert his son here after the Break Pillar's brunt has passed, and have him stab him in silly bit of stupidity. And we'll have Marie there so she can feel upset. And before all this, we'll have Mr. Bushido there so he can briefly fight Setsuna and run away. And coming up, we've had Anew in here with some incidental scenes with Lyle, let's fast-forward and say they're an important couple, and then let's pit them against one another and be sad when Anew dies. *shakes head* If you want genuine emotion, it helps to be more delicate than this, IMO. Let things "breathe," rather than being footnotes.
PS: not that it matters, but what does "Katharon" even mean? Seems like a showy name for an organization that mostly does odd jobs for CB in the plot.
Sume Gai wrote:I don't see the potential at all, Katharon has already proven it cannot resist the Federation in any direct manner and I doubt Suile would have any better luck.
Again, doesn't this "symbolic" resistance eat at you a little bit? Especially given that it's made a big deal of early that Lyle is linked to them and how that's going to be a tense situation? Katharon just came off as a shell organization to me. In a show that had so much variety and gray area with the tri-polar powers earlier, tone-wise, it didn't have to be that way that Katharon would be a shell organization, did it?
Sume Gai wrote:
Spoiler
this particular arc is actually my favorite use of a super weapon in Gundam, -ever-. It wasn't just *BOOM* let's kill lots of innocent people. It was a carefully crafted plan to sure up the Federations position in a number of ways. How many other characters can use something like the Momento Mori to improve public image? Lets not forget it also gives the regular A-LAWS something the Titans -never- got a chance to do, collectively play the hero.
Spoiler
A lot of great stuff in the arc, but this was ultimately a reintroduction of a super-weapon we already destroyed in grand fashion, connected to a quick media cover-up, followed by a time skip. (And the tacked on Andrei to Sergei death was flat to me). I just didn't like the way it was all pushed through or presented. I just want to say that the Orbital Elevators are like the colonies of AD as far as importance in the setup, but we see them used in only a handful of episodes' scenarios. The visual impact of the first Momento Mori's destruction and this Break Pillar incident just can't be matched in the finale, which makes the finale look uninspired by comparison, IMO. The whole pillar situation should have been a bigger deal, I think.
Anyways, with everything, it comes down to a pacing versus depth problem for me. The ideas are there, I just didn't find the execution rewarding. If I'm watching a Gundam series, and I'm getting a largely restrained/lukewarm reaction from some pretty spectacular feats, something's not clicking between the action and reaction.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Burke Rukes wrote: But suddenly, here comes Ptolemaios and the 00 Raiser to the rescue! This is one of the single most thrilling and fantastic battles I've ever seen in Gundam! Setsuna distracts Hiling so the Ptolemy can move on Memento Mori. Sumeragi's plan is absolutely brilliant, and its execution is nail-biting! The bait-and-switch Trans-Aming of the ship when MM fires at it, to give them a window to attack it while it recharges, and the zooming along the solar power array ring at incredible speed, giving and taking fire... Arios providing the Trans-Am energy, while Cherudim provides defense with its SHIELD BITS! The shields bits are soooooo awesome! :D Seravee uses its Yamato gun to blast a hole open in MM, and Lockon Lyle snipes the killing shots. It blew up and I cheered! And buh-bye, Major Rindt, ya scumbag! Seriously... AWESOME battle! Great teammwork! I LOVED it! It felt kinda like the Death Star trench from from Star Wars. :D
This was actually one of the few battles in season 2 of 00 that I didn't care for at all. Everything about it felt just a tad too silly.

...Well, just about all of the battles that happened in season 2 were silly, but this one took it to the point that everything that happened no longer sat well with me. Arios somehow manages to produce enough particles to Trans-Am the entire Ptolemaois for an inordinate amount of time. The barrage of defensive fire from the A-Laws fleet is conveniently blocked by Cherudim's shield bits. Which somehow manage to remain in front of a ship moving at terminal velocity by themselves. Seravee's Hadoken cannon... well, I just never really liked that thing to begin with.

All in all, the time it took for the Ptolemaois to travel the length of the ring was supposed to be tense, but when the scene lasts long enough for you to start noticing all of these little things, it becomes tedious instead.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I also haven't seen 00 S2. So, last night I decided to finally hunker down and watch, blazing through the first 11 episodes. I don't intend to steal any of Burke's thunder, but I figure this is as good a place as any to post my own thoughts and try to compare notes with Burke's reactions.

So far...I'm enjoying what I'm seeing, but I'm not particularly happy with the direction they've taken the series. I'm liking it much more than I expected I would, and I attribute that to the characters: the characters remain fun and interesting, and I'm like seeing how they've grown and changed in the 4 years separating S1 and S2. I'm happy to finally see the backstories for several characters more fully fleshed out, and watching the battle of wits between Kujo/Noriega and Mannekin has been a blast! The action, animation, and writing remain top-notch. I watched the dub, though, so the dialogue was sometimes atrocious. :lol:

That said, there are a number of things I'm not liking much here. Although in many ways feels like the logical extension of 00 S1's ending, I'm...I don't know how I feel about it. It now feels like a completely different world than Season 1, and I'm not sure I like this world as a setting. On the one hand, this is the first time the Earth Federation has ever made SENSE to me in any of these universes, while at the same time not feeling like a total rehash of the UC version. Four years is quite a long time, though I wonder if maybe the show would've been served better had they let more time pass (7 years, maybe).

At the same time, though, the world here feels VERY much like UC in the Zeta era: the A-Laws are the Titans, Katharon is Karaba, and Celestial Being may as well be the AEUG. It's not so simplistic, of course, but I miss the interesting political set up of Season 1 and am somewhat disappointed it was tossed in favor of what's essentially a more realistic rehash of Zeta's setting. Suille was a good point to create some diversity and set the world apart more by bringing back some of S1's dynamic. That actually would've been really interesting: a country big enough that the Federation cannot force it to join, thus setting into motion a powerplay between the good guys and bad guys to sway Suille's king. You can end the storyline the same way, but I feel they skipped what was potentially something really interesting.

The setting is not bad, it's actually more interesting than I expected, but I'm still not particularly happy with it.

The A-Laws bother me. They're the Titans again, and it just happens that I watched the Z Gundam movies recently so the similarities are even more glaring. That's not a bad thing, mind you, but...we went from 00 S1 being a world of Gray-and-Gray morality to now a fairly Black-and-White, Good v. Evil one. It's jarring. I like how the soldiers from S1, who were all professionals doing their jobs, are portrayed as both being superior soldiers and at the same time very suspicious/skeptical of the A-Laws, it makes the organization seem more varied. Unfortunately, so many of the new A-Law characters seem so one-dimensionally EVIL that they're cartoonish and, ultimately, just plain annoying. Case and point: Major Rindt (Reindt?). He's despicable, but never seems like a real threat - he's just evil self-centered twat with no redeemable qualities. Ali al-Saachez was an evil bastard last season, but THAT made him stand out: he was the lone truly evil bastard in a story where everyone else was sympathetic to some degree. I loved to hate Ali, but I can't STAND Rindt. If they aren't one-dimesionally evil, then they're simply unremarkable (the blonde-haired A-Laws captain, for instance). As of episode 11, the only new soldier character that interests me at all is Andrei Smirnov and, IMO, he's been criminally underused (as have Patrick, Billy and Graham/Mr. Bushido).

Surprisingly, I like Ribbons and the Innovators - a surprise, because I usually hate "global conspiracy" storylines, but in this case they've played it well and it doesn't feel as unrealistic as I expected. Ribbons is a good villain and I look forward to seeing more of him. I'm interested to see where they're going with this, and I wonder how much of Schenberg's plan has been altered by Ribbons (I've only seen up to episode 11, but I'm CERTAIN Ribbons has, like Alejandro, hijacked the plan and changed something to fit his own agenda).
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Here's five more episodes for my comments and review, Season 2 Episodes 16 thru 20!

Setsuna in the 00 Raiser faces off against Graham in his Masurao, which has kicked on its "secret weapon" Trans-Am mode. He blitzes the 00, but Setsuna turns on his own TA mode and does the awesome teleporting trick, and much slashy bashy commences. But before the battle can get decisive, Ptolemaios and the other Gundam arrive, and Graham runs away. (Y'know, LightningCount, you're right that this series has far too many convenient retreats. :P) Setsuna, about to pass out from his gunshot wound he's still suffering from, hears Lockon Neil's voice saying that HE couldn't cahnge, but Setsuna still can. He says he will, he'll change right now and start to reform himself. Hooray for self-improvement and growth! :)

Hercury and his military coup d'etat forces have taken control of the Africa Tower, intending to get the public's attention and let them know what's really going on with their bad government and A-LAWS, but as is to be expected, in a society where the powers-that-be control most, if not all, of the media and information the public gets, word doesn't get out. And then A-LAWS releases a wave of automatons into the tower, which kill everything in sight, and Veda does a real spiffy, on-the-fly job of editing the footage so it looks like the coup members fired on the civilians instead. Sergei arrives, trying to talk some sense into Hercury and call this thing off, since he knows this situation cannot end well for anyone, especially with the government control of the information (again thanks to Veda, which most people don't know about). Katharon and Celestial Being force are en route to the tower to help the coup and/or avert a disaster. Hercury starts to release the civilian hostages, hoping that they'll spread word of what really happened with the automatons, but...

The flashbacks featuring young Sergei, Hercury, Holly and Andrei as a young boy are good stuff. Good soldier Sergei was willing to let his wife die to help protect the under-construction HRL orbital elevator from rebels or terrorists. Andrei's estrangement from his father might've been averted if Sergei had reached out to his son when he needed it. And hearing Hercury's idealism both in his youth, and seeing it distorted into ill-thought-out, desparate actions in the present, are admirable yet tragic. And speaking of tragedy...

The Federation government and its A-LAWS cronies have deliberately manipulated this situation to legitimize an attack on their part. They begin redeploying their forces, and both Sumeragi and Kati see what's happening - that they're moving to avoid falling debris from the tower based on wind dispersal patterns... because they also find a second Memento Mori superweapon up on the orbital ring. Oh, this is NOT going to be good, at all... :(

And the sad part is, when everyone else figures this out, Hercury admits that he messed up big-time. Well, NO S#!T, Sherlock! You want to expose A-LAWS, which has had NO qualms about murdering tens of thousands of civilians before, and you know that the government completely controls the media. And you just HANDED them a military and PR victory on a silver platter, complete with more civilian casualties, 'cause now the coup forces, CB and Katheron are all gathered there, in the sights of Memento Mori 2. Y'know, Gundamdom does love to expose human folly to no end, and rightly so (and I enjoy it, frankly). Lots of people with good intentions making bad decisions, and this mess just made Hercury one of the worst.

And the worst does happen. Ptolemy can't get up in orbit to stop Memento Mori 2 in time, so Setsuna takes 00 Raiser up to tackle it alone. In TA mode, he seems to fire a HUGE mega-blast at MM2, which also blows away another Innovator pilot whose name I don't care enough to know/memorize, but it's not actually a beam shot, IT'S THE BIGGEST BEAM SABER BLADE EVAH!!!!111oneoneone :D Setsuna manages to damage the facility, but the weapon is still intact and it fires, but the damage causes it to miss the lower orbital platform where Hercury and Sergei are at, and instead hits the pillar column itself! The pillar's outer structure begins collapsing, the pieces above the atmosphere burning up, but the ones in the atmosphere will fall on the population centers below the tower. What follows is a very tense and dramatic scene, with pretty much everyone pitching in to shoot down the falling debris. Marie even deploys in the GN Archer (which to my delight, changes into a pretty spiffy, unique looking MS :D ), since this isn't a battle, but an effort to save lives. Some hours later, the rain of debris has stopped. Sergei and Hercury are looking over the area and the damage, and the ruins of the Africa elevator (though its central core cable is still intact and tethered to the orbital ring). Suddenly Andrei, angry at both Hercury and his father, snipes and kills Hercury, then attacks Sergei. Marie tries to stop him, but Andrei does the dead, damaging Sergei's MS and injuring him. Sergei apologizes to Andrei for not being a good father, and then he dies when his Teiran Taozi explodes. And Marie screams in anguish. Goodbye, Sergei. You were one of the good ones. :(

Fast forward now, 4 months later instead of 4 years later. Solar power from the Africa Tower is restored, and the Federation President says THANKS to Memento Mori, the complete collapse of the elevator was averted in the "Break Pillar" disaster. However, said MM2 is soon destroyed by the Ptolemaios and its Gundams. The president also announces that the regular Federation military will be absorbed into A-LAWS to eradicate dissidents and create a true united world. Don't forget the "under one military dictatorship" part, Mister President!

Oh, and Kati Mannequin has gone missing.... *rubs my hands and cackles with glee* :D

The A-LAWS/Security forces are on the hunt, sending kill teams and automatons into Katharon and other dissident bases and safe houses all over the world. Klaus, Shirin, Marina and the orphan kids are hiding out in an old house in what seems to be Europe. I'm surprised (as are this group) to hear the song Marina and kids wrote being played on the radio. Underground pirate resistance radio, perhaps? However, their peaceful break is cut short when a Security kill team shows up. A brief firefight ensues, but our heroes sneak out through an old bomb shelter/escape tunnel. Shirin tries to give Marina a gun but she refuses, saying if she took it, she could never look at the children again.

I have say that, while I like Marina (certainly more now than I did in S1), her pacifism is being taken too far. Her desire to not INITIATE force against others is admirable and I totally agree, I live by the "non-agression principle," too. But there's nothing wrong with using force to defend yourself and those around you. Idealism and pacificism is all well and good - as long as you can keep yourself alive to keep preaching it. I don't think those kids will think any less of you if you have to shoot someone to save their lives, Marina. They've already been traumatized by losing their parents and being victims of the fighting. One well-meaning woman with a gun shooting down bad men trying to kill them isn't going to make them any worse off. *deep breath and exhale* Anyway... they make it to safety, another safe house while Shirin goes to find Klaus at a rendezvous point.

Lots of intrigue and some new clues about the Innovators. So (in theory, because if it comes out of an Innovator's mouth, at this point I have no reason to fully believe it), Aeolia Schenberg created the Innovators with very long lifespans, and equipped with skills for the "dialogues to come" (whatever that means, I still don't have a clue), because even when a great human leader rises to power and does good things and brings peace, that human eventually dies, and their ideas are forgotten, and humanity goes back to the old violent ways. It sounds like Aeolia only created Ribbons, or if he created any other Innovators, they may be long gone. And Ribbons created Regene, and maybe the others? What about Tieria? I still want to know HIS pre-series background/origin. Anyway, Ribbons proves more and more that he's an egotistical jerk, insisting that Regene remembers HE created him, not Schenberg. He seems to think of himself as a god, and he says the Innovators won't be guiding humanity - HE will. Was this part of Schenberg's plan, or did he make a mistake in creating an android that would become a diabolical narcissist?

Wang asks Ribbons about the world to come, and his unfolding plans, and it seems like he intends to teach humanity a lesson. I have a feeling this lesson will NOT be pleasant. He also tells Wang that she can never be an Innovator, which seems to upset her. He no longer has any use for her, and he's aware of some secret meetings and dealings between Wang and Regene. Regene gives Wang a paper note, containing the coordinates for Veda's location, to give to Celestial Being. Alright, what gives with Regene? He's trying to go behind Ribbons' back for his own reasons, but what are they? I wonder if it's because of the shared DNA between Regene and Tieria, perhaps some special link between their minds, and Tieria's growing humanity is having an effect on Regene? I really don't have a clue yet.

Later on, Ribbons says he thinks he's best suited to pilot the 00, and he asks Regene if he agrees. Regene says yes, but Ribbons says he knows that she thinks no such thing. Then Ribbons slaps Regene, and says his mischief has gone too far, and he knows what'll happen next time if it does... Regene looks scared. I don't know why Regene would think he could get away with anything behind Ribbons' back. Ribbons can remote view/telepath link up to any of the Innovators, he does it all the time. Aside from cutting an Innovator off from Veda (like he did with Tieria), I wonder what hold he really has over the others?

Wang and Hong Long are on the old Trinity Team ship, en route to Ptolemaios to give them the Veda location, when their ship systems all suddenly shut down. Nena calls them, says she's doing it, and that while Wang has everything, she's hollow inside. Nena's "shuttle" is actually camouflage for her Gundam Throne Drei, which she uses to start blasting and blasting and blasting the ship, cackling with glee. Are Wang and Hong killed...? Tune in next time, folks! Too bad Wang couldn't get the coordinates to Ptolemy first... but still, the two-timing turncoat had it coming.

On the Ptolemy, the Marie personality seems to be gone or repressed again, and Soma Peries is back in control. I assume her re-emergence was triggered by Sergei's death, and she's angry at Andrei, wondering how he could throw away something she never had - a father. She's also been flying the GN Archer in combat, having helped take out Memento Mori 2, and being cold to Allelujah. Allelujah is not happy with this, since he promised Sergei that Marie/Soma wouldn't be fighting anymore. Lyle tells Allelujah to not force his will on her, that she has to grieve in her own way, and accept that she wants to fight now.

Setsuna's gunshot wound isn't healing as fast as it should, and it's revealed that somehow, he has been infected with the harmful red pseudo-GN particles. However, something is preventing them from spreading as fast as they normally should, as opposed to Lasse (oh no, is he dying now, too, from his injuries? :( ). Something is working to suppress the damage. I'm guessing it's the 00 Raiser Trans-Am mode's condensed green GN particle field, that maybe it has healing properties, as opposed to the harmful reds. Setsuna deduces that, by injuring him, the Innovators are trying to get their hands on 00, because they have no info on the Twin Drive System. 00 is CB's trump card. :D

Saji is still anguishing over Louise, and what he can do to get her back. Saji asks Setsuna if he will shoot down Louise. Setsuna says that's up to Saji, but the Gundams allow them to create things, not just destroy things in battle. Setsuna says he'll try to help Saji see Louise. Go Setsuna! It's great to see him really making the changes he wants, even in little ways, like trying to help someone salvage a lost love. :)

And, big surprise (not), Anew Returner is revealed to be an Innovator spy. She and Lyle have developed a romantic relationship, and while her feelings for him are genuine, she's also been giving away Ptolemaios' location to A-LAWS for the last 4 months, putting them under constant attack. Lyle figures out that she's an Innovator, but he doesn't let a little thing like that stop him. :P We also get a bit of Lyle's background, where he explains that Neil was the gifted one, and he didn't want to compete with him, so he ran off many years ago, and didn't really know his brother well. It's little touches like this that make me appreciate Lyle's character more and more as the series progresses. He's not just a "replacement Lockon," he really is his own man, with his own flaws and strengths, and thus this "twin replacement" trope is more forgivable in this series than, say, Neo "replacing" Mu in Destiny.

On the A-LAWS space fleet pursuing Ptolemaios, Andrei is proud of his commendation for killing the coup d'etat's ringleader, but he also gets a lot of grief for killing his own father. Sadly, Andrei is proud of that, too. I really, really, really don't like Andrei, but unfortunately, a lot of the blame for how he turned out can be laid at Sergei's feet. And he can't seem to keep his creepy hands off of Louise, giving her that weird and disturbing hug, while she just stands there, stunned, lost in her own head and wondering if she'd be able to kill Saji. Such messed-up, badly damaged people... :(

So thanks to Anew, the A-LAWS fleet gets Ptolemy's location and launches another attack. Billy and Graham are on the A-LAWS ships, Billy telling Graham that he's made some improvements to its Trans-Am system. We also see Graham put on a smaller version of his mask, and see that, oooooh big surprise, his face is scarred.

The pilots on both sides launch in their MSs, with Lyle telling Anew "I love you" right before he takes off. Oh boy... one of these two are going to die. :\ I do love this scene, though, with all of the characters quietly saying a name to themselves, someone they're trying to find, or protect, or avenge... everyone has their reason for being there.

The big battle ensues, with Tieria capturing Innovator pilot Revival to try to get information on Veda's location. Saji looks for Louise, while Soma is hunting for Andrei, looking for revenge for Sergei's death. Setsuna activates the 00 Raiser's Trans-Am mode, and the effect brings out Hallelujah, who goes wild with the Arios, as expected. Saji find Louise and they have a Matrix-y psychic talk, with Saji trying to get her to come back with him, but Louise is far too lost in her hate and anger. Soma goes after Andrei but Allelujah's back to normal and stops her. Saji screams for everyone to stop, that what they're doing is just making things crazier, and they're making no progress at all. It's an anguished, heartfelt plea for sanity amongst the insanity, and for once, I think I have to agree with Saji.

Oh, and Graham's been sitting back in his MS the whole time, watching, not even fighting, pondering how to press "the boy" Setsuna into being his "worthy adversary." Yawn...

Back on Ptolemaios, Sumeragi and the pilots try to interrogate Revive Revival, but are getting nowhere. Then on the bridge, Anew steers the ship off course, shoots Lasse, announces she's an Innovator, and takes Mileina hostage. Anew and Revive are working together, to try to steal the 00 Gundam and the 0-Raiser, but Soma, who can also use quantum brainwaves and is able to sense them, tracks down Anew, and they manage to rescue Mileina. Revive takes off in the 0-Raiser, and Anew can't get to 00 so she takes a shuttle, after they infest Ptolemy with a computer virus that shuts them down and also steals some data. Setsuna and Lyle pursue in their Gundams. In an awesome "gotcha!" moment, pink Haro pops out from behind Revive and bounces around the Raiser cockpit, distracting him and plugging into the Raiser cockpit to take over. 0-Raiser docks with 00, but Revive blasts the cockpit controls with a rifle, shutting down the Raiser and she gets out, picked up by Anew's stolen shuttle. Lyle is close to shooting down the shuttle, but he just can't do it, and he gets angry at himself. As Anew flies off, she says she really does love Lyle. Yep... this relationship is sooooo doomed.

Ribbons is now with the A-LAWS fleet pursuing Ptolemy, aboard a big battleship/carrier looking vessel. He's talking with Louise, and we learn he gave her the meds she takes that suppresses the cellular defects in her body. He says he wants Louise to create a united world without war, and to avenge her parents and destroy the Gundams. He's giving her the new MA called Regnant, an improved version of the Empruss. He also tells her he wants Louise to become the first human Innovator and guide the world. He asks if she'll do this, and the eyes of both of them glow. She says she will. I have to wonder at this point, how much of Louise's actions are of her own free will, and how much of it is Ribbons controlling her, as he is able to do with actual Innovators (as we see more of later). I suspect the "medications" she's taking are more than just keep-her-alive chemicals... maybe they're changing her body, too, thus giving her the glowie yellow Innovator eyes? Maybe her prosthetic hand, too... she's so much a puppet. And yet... as I write this, I'm suddenly hit with a Gundam comparison for these two... Ribbons and Louise are Paptimus Scirocco and Sara Zabiarov. Except without the hormone-fueled, doting-on-androgynous-mastermind part.

Between the previous battle and the next, some repairs are made to Ptolemy, but they're not fully functional yet. Lasse is healing in the regeneration tank. Setsuna tells Lyle that when the time comes, he'll pull the trigger on Anew, so Lyle won't have to, and he can hate Setsuna if he wants. Gee, I wonder who's about to die...? This is a powerful little scene, but it definitely gives away what's about to happen.

Another big MS fight, with 3 Innovators in MSs and Louise in the Regnant fighting Cherudim, Arios and Seravee. 00 isn't able to launch yet, and the 0-Raiser's cockpit is still being repaired. The Regnant has a BFG beam weapon, whose beam can turn to follow its target! This is pretty neat, but for the life of me, I've never understood how something like this could actually work. But then, this is science FICTION. :p Anyway, the battle focuses mostly on Lyle vs. Anew, and the part where his Trans-Am'ed Cherudim is trashing Anew's MS in slow-motion is very cool and surreal. Then he rips open her cockpit, says he's going to make her his woman again, that he takes what he wants, even if she's an Innovator. Um, way to be a bit of a chauvenist pig, Lyle. She starts to leave the cockpit, to come with him... but then Ribbons takes control of her, and makes her start fighting back again. Ribbons doesn't like Innovators being treated like lowly humans. Ribbons-controlled Anew damages Cherudim, then flies in for the kill, but 00 finally shows up and shoots Anew's MS. Lyle and Anew have a naked Newtype soul communion thingie, then Anew dies when her MS blows up.

Back on the ship, Lyle is furious , beating the stuffing out of Setsuna, who doesn't fight back, but then Lyle breaks down crying. As he does, Setsuna seems to hear an echo of Marina's voice, singing her song... a telepathic link to her, back on Earth, maybe?

Just a couple of add-on comments and items:

Ribbons says the cell abnormalities in Setsuna should've reached lethal levels by now, and he wonders if the Twin Drive has something to do with that... and if this means that Setsuna has started to change. Hmmm, I wonder what this means? :)

That teleportation trick the 00 does when it's in Trans-Am mode is pretty spiffy!

And on the A-LAWS ships following the fight when Saji told everyone to stop, Andrei sees Louise moping over Saji, and he says if she can't close off her feelings, so he'll have to do it for her. That doesn't sound good... I think he's going to go after Saji, try to kill off his "competition"... as if Louise has ANY romantic interest in Andrei whatsoever. Sheez, get a clue, you loser!
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Burke Rukes wrote:In response to the Memento Mori firings, Katharon mobilizes its space fleet to attack it. Part of their attack force is wiped out by the weapon, when it's revealed to be able to fire out into space as well as on Earth. One of the Innovator pilots, Hiling Care, is with the A-LAWS fleet guarding Memento Mori, in her BFG-armed Gadessa MS, and she snipes more Katharon ships. But suddenly, here comes Ptolemaios and the 00 Raiser to the rescue! This is one of the single most thrilling and fantastic battles I've ever seen in Gundam! Setsuna distracts Hiling so the Ptolemy can move on Memento Mori. Sumeragi's plan is absolutely brilliant, and its execution is nail-biting! The bait-and-switch Trans-Aming of the ship when MM fires at it, to give them a window to attack it while it recharges, and the zooming along the solar power array ring at incredible speed, giving and taking fire... Arios providing the Trans-Am energy, while Cherudim provides defense with its SHIELD BITS! The shields bits are soooooo awesome! :D Seravee uses its Yamato gun to blast a hole open in MM, and Lockon Lyle snipes the killing shots. It blew up and I cheered! And buh-bye, Major Rindt, ya scumbag! Seriously... AWESOME battle! Great teammwork! I LOVED it! It felt kinda like the Death Star trench from from Star Wars. :D



Setsuna's back on Earth, searching for the Ptolemaios, when he encounters Ali al-Saachez in the Arche Gundam. Ali leads him to Krugis, for a fateful face-to-face meeting with Ribbons Almark. In a surprise reveal, we learn that it was Ribbons himself piloting the 0 Gundam on that fateful day years ago here in Krugis that completely changed Setsuna's life. (And I find it an amusing homage that the character who piloted (what I assume to be) the first Gundam in this series is voiced by the actor who also played the first Gundam pilot ever. :D ) Ribbons says that that intervention was a field test for 0 Gundam, and The Plan(tm) originally called for elimination of all witnesses, but he spared Setsuna's life, because of how he reacted to the 0 Gundam. Ribbons also claims that he used Veda to recomment Setsuna as a Gundam Meister later on. Setsuna's services are no longer required, and by all rights, Ribbons should be piloting the 00 Gundam. Setsuna refuses, draws his pistol to shoot him, but Ali shoots him in the shoulder first.

Setsuna and Ali have a big fight in their Gundams, and Ali starts to use a passing-by plane (which happens to be carrying Klaus and Shirion) as hostages. But Setsuna Trans-Am's the 00 and beats him up hard, about to go stabby through Ali's cockpit, when he freezes, and everyone in the area hears Marina and the orphan children at the Katharon desert base, singing the song they've written together. Yeah... the 00 Raiser in Trans-Am mode is definitely a wide-area telepathy-making machine. Ali's Arche is heavily damaged and blows up, but he escapes in his Core Fighter-like thing. Setsuna listens to the song, which is full of hope and happiness, and he tells himself he doesn't know why he's fighting anymore. That's... a rather sudden, dramatic change in attitude, but I guess the telepathy effects would have that affect on him.

Afterwards, Setsuna makes his way to Katharon's base, where Marina is staying. He passes out from the gunshot wound, and wakes up in her care, bandaged up. He'll need time to heal up, since they don't have regeneration equipment there. And the two take the time to talk, share their histories, get to know and understand each other better.

Meanwhile, Ptolemaios has been repaired enough to move, but unable to defend itself yet. They're going to meet up with a Katharon supply convoy in Europe, when they're attacked by two of the Innovator A-LAWS pilots. Things are looking ugly, when Tieria's Seravee is fighting Bring's MS, and then we get the Seravee's big surprise - it has a SECOND Gundam as part of it! Tieria is inside the now-revealed Seraphim Gundam, with the Seravee's parts - is it still a whole mobile suit by itself, maybe a remote/drone unit now? - grappling Bring's MS inside its GN Field. The Seraphim penetrates the field as well, and destroys Bring and his MS. Very cool!
-Thoght you might find this interesting. While Ribbons claims to have recommended Setsuna to Veda, in reality he hacked Veda and made him the Meister. There was this guy named Grave who was incharge of recruiting the Meisters (he recruited Neil and Allelujah) and he tried to place a Meister candidate for Exia but Veda automatically rejects any candidate he presents without fail. In addition there was an audio drama where Tieria mentions that he's suspicious of Setsuna because when he checked the data of him in Veda, there were signs of it being tampered for the position so Tieria suspected Setsuna was up to something that might up to something and might not be loyal to them. This is why he's so cold and antagonistic towards him in the early parts of S1, even threatened to shoot him on several occasions as you recall.

-The fight against MM was one of my favorites in the series, I do have some problems with S2 but the main reason why I like it over S1 slightly is because of the battles and individual episodes even if the overall story seems less cohesive and the politics are less complex.

In addition to the teamwork, this is also one of the few battles we saw where CB can do one of their pre-plan offensive battles. Everything goes smoothly in this one. 00 Raiser was dominating but was not that dominating. And yeah I love the trench run; the only thing that is missing missing is Neil telling Lyle to "Use The Force" during the sniping scene. :mrgreen: Very cool episode and battle.

-Notice that in episode 14 right after Ali shot Setsuna, you can see a small thin orange GN Particle residue trail coming out of Ali's gun? I like this small touch a lot.

Arche vs 00 Raiser was also one of my favorite battles in 00. In addition to "0 Raiser" BGM (my favorite BGM of the series, mainly because of this scene and it sounds awesome) playing in the first half. Its one of those awesome hero fighting adversity moments I guess. Sure Setsuna may be in one of the most overpowered mechs around but he's still in big trouble with that particle poison wound there and having to deal with the confusing Fangs in that position would be hard; you could see it in his eyes just how hard of a time he's having trying to follow the Fangs while breathing heavily .

In addition; I love seeing Tieria fighting against Bring, its probably his most best rejection to the Innovators as a whole and claiming he's humanity; something he slowly gained as the series progresses. It was one of Tieria and Setsuna's finest moments of the show in my opinion.

I remember when my friend and I watched this more than two years ago, we were SCREAMING for Setsuna to finish Ali off. Ahhhh.........so close yet so far.

He would have gotten away with too if it weren't for those nosy kids. lol >___>
Burke Rukes wrote:I have say that, while I like Marina (certainly more now than I did in S1), her pacifism is being taken too far. Her desire to not INITIATE force against others is admirable and I totally agree, I live by the "non-agression principle," too. But there's nothing wrong with using force to defend yourself and those around you. Idealism and pacificism is all well and good - as long as you can keep yourself alive to keep preaching it. I don't think those kids will think any less of you if you have to shoot someone to save their lives, Marina. They've already been traumatized by losing their parents and being victims of the fighting. One well-meaning woman with a gun shooting down bad men trying to kill them isn't going to make them any worse off. *deep breath and exhale* Anyway... they make it to safety, another safe house while Shirin goes to find Klaus at a rendezvous point.
As unpractical as that is, its just how much Marina hates fighting and killing that she won't even do it in self defense. Even in the Katharon conflict, she's not really gung ho about Katharon either even if she will likely prefer them to A-LAWS and is staying with them. She wants everyone to stop fighting period. The children probably won't mind though but I think she just wants to shelter them from fighting as best as she could even if what she's suggesting is impractical. Maybe she's just hoping the security forces agency would spare the childrens' lives and such.
Strike Zero wrote: Arios somehow manages to produce enough particles to Trans-Am the entire Ptolemaois for an inordinate amount of time.
Trans-Am works by energizing the particles already stored in the GN Condensers while also at the same time increasing the output rate coming off from the GN Drive. The Ptolemaios already has large GN Condensers of its own so its not only working off Arios' particles but but its own as well. While the GN Drive output rate also triples (and in general this is important in keeping all the particles in the system from running out), the energy release rate by the Condensers in both Arios and Ptolemaios plays a factor.

To my knowledge, even in a single GNMS System, the single GN Drive's tripled particle output rate doesn't provide all the particles that Trans-Am mostly used; most of it came from the already stored Condensers. Apply this concept to the Ptolemaios' larger consumption as well as it larger condensers storage capacity that are already stored pre-battle and it will likely for the most part sustain itself while the Arios's GN Drive and GN Condensers covers any shortfall. In addition, we are also not sure whether Cherudim and Seravee's GN Drives are actually connected to the Ptolemaios' system at this point in which their regular outputs would already help contribute to the system. I reckon even if they did it would probably be only a slightly support to counteract the very high particle volume usage being used by the Ptolmeaios (I mean they are already fighting afterall when Trans-Am is deployed) in at best but it does help balance the particle accounts a bit so to speak.

We also know Ptolemaios can Trans-Am itself if it wanted to without having any GN Drives onboard; even if the only example we eventually saw of this late in the series was very short. As I said, its not as if Arios alone powers the whole thing; and I recall dialogue from the subs I used mentioned that the Ptolemaios literally ran out of particles at the end of the run according to the next episode. At this point in time, all three GN Drives would go into a low output mode (which means its hard to sustain something as big as the Ptolemaios when you have nothing but three temporarily weakened Drives); all GN Condensers in all three MS would run out while all the larger GN Condensers in the Ptolemaios would have run out to so its a big moment of weakness and that recovering from this deficit will take a long while in battle time. They really stretched it all for this run and in reality it probably never lasts more than the usual three minutes anyways. I don't think video time is a reliable description of actual time, as sometimes things last longer than they are potrayed while sometimes the opposite is true.

You also have to take into account the fact that the Ptolemaios is not running all functions it usually does. One of Ptolemaios's most used and particle intensive functions, the GN Field is not used at all as Sumeragi notes and if memory serves no beam weapons either. The Ptolemaios is fully focusing on speed alone rather than all its functions. GN Missiles launched plays no part in the current particle system transfer since all the GN Particles are already preloaded.
Last edited by SonicSP on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Izayuukan wrote:How she and season one Saji were handled reminds me of how the characters were treated in SEED Destiny. In both shows, the writers didn't seem to know what to do with the characters.
Destiny’s problem was pacing, not the writers not knowing what to do with the characters.

I will agree about season 2 of 00, though I think this is less of a problem with Marina and Saji than most of the other supporting characters. The leaders of Karaba/Katheron are cyphers. So are the new members of Celestial Being and virtually all of the Innovades. It says something when Alexei Smirnov is probably the most well developed new character for Season 2.
Spoiler
There were reasons to have Setsuna and Tieria survive – both had character growth and affected the plot. Second season provided little to no reason for Patrick, Ali, Graham, and Lasse to be brought back. Wang Liu Mei and her brother had no real effect on events; Nena Trinity had very little effect and no character growth.
My guess is the writers had 50 episodes worth of story, but only 25 episodes to work with. That’s why so many characters are underdeveloped; so many subplots are dropped or rushed without being properly developed.
Izayuukan wrote: However, the idea of the Titans is a tired one - power corrupts, folks! - and the A-LAWS do nothing to distinguish themselves from their predecessors.
It’s an old theme, but so are most themes. The trick is presenting things in an new and interesting way.
Burke Rukes wrote:It all boils down to, what was in Aeolia Schenberg's head, what WAS his The Plan(tm) supposed to be, before certain elements started mucking it up?
I think the writers are trying to put us in CB’s shoes, trying to determine whether Ribbons is faithfully fulfilling The Plan or lying for his own advantage. The problem is we aren’t told what anybody believes the plan was supposed to be – not Celestial Being, nor Alejandro, nor Ribbons, nor Regine, nor Tieria, nor Schenberg himself.

People may argue about whether it would have worked, but at least in GSD we know what Durandal said the goal of the Destiny Plan was and the methods used to achieve that goal.
Burke Rukes wrote:As for Lyle, I'm not sure, really. We see him once in S1, and Neil mentions him by name in his awesome dying monologue, so we HAD to know he was coming. It does bother me a bit that he's automatically assumed that he has to be the one replacing his brother in a Gundam cockpit. Your suggestion that Feldt do that instead... would be very neat and make some sense, actually!
Feldt as a pilot would be an interesting plot development. I’m fine with Lyle eventually ending up in a Gundam cockpit, but I think it would have been better if he started in a support role – perhaps starting in the position that Saji, Lasse, or Anew hold.
Burke Rukes wrote:Katheron itself I have no problem with. Big bad government gets overly oppressive and creates a lot of victims and angry people, some of them are going to get together and fight back. Makes sense to me.
The problem for me is that Katheron, Celestial Being, and the anti-A-Laws Union troops all completely fail in the one area resistance groups need in order to succeed. You can’t expose the government without access to media. In 00, the Union controls the media – the general public never gets anyone else’s view of events.
LightningCount wrote:Oh, BTW, what do you think of Andrei's silly crush on Louise and all that jazz. :?
I think it almost gives him a second dimension as a character. :)

Which makes him one of the more rounded second season characters. :)
LightningCount wrote:You raise some good points I didn't consider. Maybe he is like Durandal! Ha ha! Except, Durandal had more interesting political and philosophical content in his series, no? :P
Wouldn’t be hard considering how little explanation we get of Schernberg’s Plan.
LightningCount wrote:Can we get some credible enemies I can believe in?!
That is a weakness of Season 2.
LightningCount wrote:It's like these writers don't want to spend the time on the scenes they've already set up, too busy thinking about moving things ahead. It's just too often. This Second Season has its moments and episodes, but as a whole, it feels like the last quarter of Destiny to me in regards to how it treats its plot points and characters.
I think that’s unfair to the last quarter of Destiny. In Destiny, they’re trying to fit 15 episodes worth of material into 10. In 00 Second Season they’re trying to fit 50 episodes worth of material into 25 – thus the underused and undeveloped characters, the rushed or abandoned plots.
LightningCount wrote:I liked this scene as it played up the rarely seen "covert" aspects of CB...but how exactly did Tieria change himself like that?
Are we sure Tieria is a guy? ;)
LightningCount wrote:The simplicity and craziness of Saachez is admirable, but I just find it beneath him to be working for Ribbons and co. (Unless he was doing so all along?). Maybe it's because I just don't care for Ribbons much...
Ribbons is one of the least interesting villains in a Gundam series.

I can see Ali working for Ribbons if it gives him a chance for battle. And that Ali would turn on Ribbons in a heartbeat if someone else would offer better mechs or more chances to engage in slaughter.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Burke Rukes wrote:
LightningCount wrote:You know, this was too much (and too soon) of an 08th Team/SEED/Destiny repeat here for me with people getting stranded alone and getting to know one another.
…and whereas Shiro/Aina and Athrun/Cagalli were about two strangers forced to deal with each other in less than ideal circumstances, and forming a bond, this is different. Allelujah and Marie/Soma know each other, they have history, despite Marie never been able to see Al with her own eyes before. We also learn more origin story stuff from them both, and in the end, unlike Aina/Shiro and Cagalli/Athrun, rather than goign their separate ways, they leave together.
What this scene reminded me was not Aina/Shiro or Cagalli/Athrun but the scene where Shinn hands Stella over to Neo. In both cases the living weapon is being handed over to someone who promises to keep them safe and out of combat.
Burke Rukes wrote:Heheh, yeah, one of the great things about Destiny, and something I would love to see more of in Gundam. It's not to say the same things aren't in 00, or even other Gundam shows. The philosophical stuff I eat like candy is always there, just hidden under the surface of actions and dialogue and plot. Destiny just brought it all out into the open, unashamedly baring philosophical fangs though Durandal. Just because these things aren't discussed openly, hit-you-over-the-head style in 00, doens't mean they're not there.
Hidden? In 00 a some of those ideas seem to be in the bottom drawer of a locked filing cabinet in a disused unlit basement lavatory behind a sign saying “Beware of the Leopard”. :)
Burke Rukes wrote:All the interesting rival pilots are gone or under-used.
Unfortunately. :(
Burke Rukes wrote:Otherwise... the Innovator pilots I find to be very uninteresting so far.
Agreed. How about the new non-Innovator pilots?
Burke Rukes wrote:…the Innovator A-LAWS pilots (I can't keep them straight, they all have day-glo/pastel colored hair and weird-as-hell names, with no particularly interesting personalities, they're all the same to me)
They might as well have been named, A, B, C, etc.
Burke Rukes wrote: And so, I think I understand what Aeolia Schenberg's ultimate goal was. Yes, it's about ending conflict, but, if this all turns out to be what I THINK it does, and this ties into the "dialogues to come" line, it's also about creating a situation where conflict isn't necessary, or perhaps, even impossible.
I think you’ll find Ali’s reaction to this field interesting.
Burke Rukes wrote:But is the way to get to that world, through A-LAWS and Memento Mori and more death and destruction, justified? I can't take that step, sorry. Aggression is still aggression, no matter what the reason for it. But still...
I think it’s clear the A-Laws are seeking to end conflict by destroying anyone who might disagree with them. Much like Durandal did in GSD.
Burke Rukes wrote:Yeah... this poor girl has lost it, and if she wasn't running on anger and hurt before, she sure is now. :(
How do you compare Louise with Shinn Asuka?
Burke Rukes wrote:Saji wants his past, his good times and his undamaged, innocent Louise back, but Setsuna says HE'S not fighting to fix a past mistake, he's fighting for a future. Interesting to see this contrast between them (and it shows how much Setsuna's grown, I think).
I saw a little similarity between this and Athrun’s words to Shinn late in Destiny.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Burke Rukes wrote:Here's five more episodes for my comments and review, Season 2 Episodes 16 thru 20!

Setsuna in the 00 Raiser faces off against Graham in his Masurao, which has kicked on its "secret weapon" Trans-Am mode. He blitzes the 00, but Setsuna turns on his own TA mode and does the awesome teleporting trick, and much slashy bashy commences. But before the battle can get decisive, Ptolemaios and the other Gundam arrive, and Graham runs away. (Y'know, LightningCount, you're right that this series has far too many convenient retreats. :P)
:D Yay!
Burke Rukes wrote:Hercury and his military coup d'etat forces have taken control of the Africa Tower, intending to get the public's attention and let them know what's really going on with their bad government and A-LAWS, but as is to be expected, in a society where the powers-that-be control most, if not all, of the media and information the public gets, word doesn't get out...The flashbacks featuring young Sergei, Hercury, Holly and Andrei as a young boy are good stuff...they also find a second Memento Mori superweapon up on the orbital ring. Oh, this is NOT going to be good, at all...

And the worst does happen. Ptolemy can't get up in orbit to stop Memento Mori 2 in time, so Setsuna takes 00 Raiser up to tackle it alone. In TA mode, he seems to fire a HUGE mega-blast at MM2, which also blows away another Innovator pilot whose name I don't care enough to know/memorize, but it's not actually a beam shot, IT'S THE BIGGEST BEAM SABER BLADE EVAH!!!!111oneoneone :D ...What follows is a very tense and dramatic scene, with pretty much everyone pitching in to shoot down the falling debris. Marie even deploys in the GN Archer (which to my delight, changes into a pretty spiffy, unique looking MS :D ), since this isn't a battle, but an effort to save lives. Some hours later, the rain of debris has stopped. Sergei and Hercury are looking over the area and the damage, and the ruins of the Africa elevator (though its central core cable is still intact and tethered to the orbital ring). Suddenly Andrei, angry at both Hercury and his father, snipes and kills Hercury, then attacks Sergei. Marie tries to stop him, but Andrei does the dead, damaging Sergei's MS and injuring him. Sergei apologizes to Andrei for not being a good father, and then he dies when his Teiran Taozi explodes. And Marie screams in anguish. Goodbye, Sergei. You were one of the good ones. :(
*Flashback to the past was excellent.

*Hercury's involvement with the pillar was a good move on the part of the writers, trying to bring back in some political depth.

*The Break Pillar incident was inspired and very cool...but also seemingly less impactful than one would expect given the set pieces involved. I want to point out that The Oribital Elevators, essentially 00's colonies, get so little significant play time in the scenarios (only a handful of episodes involve them), and that's very, very sad. This kind of scenario is hard to beat for tension, so maybe it should have been saved...Also, I can't help but feel this could have been more of a complex scenario, as I said for the potential of Suille, as well, to put more S1 gray tones in and a questioning of post-war framework beyond those struggling over Aeolia's Plan. But I digress.

*Speaking of which, Momento Mori is the Destroy Gundam of 00. We had to have it come back and be easily defeated after it had such a grand first showing in battle. It's reintroduced to be quickly destroyed like the plot device it has truly become.

*Setsuna does his best SHINING FINGER SWORD impression. See, when I see this, combined with the teleporting and all the psychic super-powers, I get nervous about the 00 Raiser being as cheap as Strike Freedom. I know people say it's not, but I see parallels with moments like this. PS: Haro keeps chanting: "O-Raiser Docking Mode!" Saji, sit aside and let Haro do all the work. You're just along for the ride! :lol:

*You didn't like another disposable Innovator getting in the way? He was surely going to take Setsuna out! :wink: I'm telling you, those Druggies knew how to put up a fight...

*Whenever Setsuna starts saying he has to make the change, I think 00 boils down to the song, "Man in the Mirror," by Michael Jackson.

*Sergei's death scene felt tacked on and half-hearted...especially since no one gives a rip about Andrei as he's been presented.
Burke Rukes wrote:Fast forward now, 4 months later instead of 4 years later.
Hurry! Faster! Faster, I say, plot! You're running out of episodes! We must find Ribbons! :P
Burke Rukes wrote:The A-LAWS/Security forces are on the hunt, sending kill teams and automatons into Katharon and other dissident bases and safe houses all over the world.
Oh, snap! The automatons...again! :P (Pride Colony, Katharon base, Break Pillar Incident, Katharon hideout...these things are all over the place! And poor Shirin and Klaus, house-sitting Marina and the kids in the plot more often than not).

I forgot to quote it, but Marina's song...I can't believe it's sudden global popularity as a uniting force. That is a painful, simplifying stretch worse than what happened back in that fight between Setsuna and Ali.
Burke Rukes wrote:Wang and Hong Long are on the old Trinity Team ship, en route to Ptolemaios to give them the Veda location, when their ship systems all suddenly shut down. Nena calls them, says she's doing it, and that while Wang has everything, she's hollow inside. Nena's "shuttle" is actually camouflage for her Gundam Throne Drei, which she uses to start blasting and blasting and blasting the ship, cackling with glee. Are Wang and Hong killed...? Tune in next time, folks! Too bad Wang couldn't get the coordinates to Ptolemy first... but still, the two-timing turncoat had it coming.
I'll have something to say about this at a later date. They were trying to utilize these people here, though, so I gotta give them some credit, even if it is late in the game.
Burke Rukes wrote:On the Ptolemy, the Marie personality seems to be gone or repressed again, and Soma Peries is back in control. I assume her re-emergence was triggered by Sergei's death, and she's angry at Andrei, wondering how he could throw away something she never had - a father. She's also been flying the GN Archer in combat, having helped take out Memento Mori 2, and being cold to Allelujah. Allelujah is not happy with this, since he promised Sergei that Marie/Soma wouldn't be fighting anymore. Lyle tells Allelujah to not force his will on her, that she has to grieve in her own way, and accept that she wants to fight now.
Andrei, what have you done?! You gave Marie and Al a place in the plot, but at the cost of you being considered a plausible or dangerous rival?!
Burke Rukes wrote:Setsuna's gunshot wound isn't healing as fast as it should, and it's revealed that somehow, he has been infected with the harmful red pseudo-GN particles. However, something is preventing them from spreading as fast as they normally should, as opposed to Lasse (oh no, is he dying now, too, from his injuries? :( ). Something is working to suppress the damage. I'm guessing it's the 00 Raiser Trans-Am mode's condensed green GN particle field, that maybe it has healing properties, as opposed to the harmful reds. Setsuna deduces that, by injuring him, the Innovators are trying to get their hands on 00, because they have no info on the Twin Drive System. 00 is CB's trump card. :D
The "gunshot plot"...I've already said I don't like it, but I can't say anything more to you right now.
Burke Rukes wrote:Saji is still anguishing over Louise, and what he can do to get her back. Saji asks Setsuna if he will shoot down Louise. Setsuna says that's up to Saji, but the Gundams allow them to create things, not just destroy things in battle. Setsuna says he'll try to help Saji see Louise. Go Setsuna! It's great to see him really making the changes he wants, even in little ways, like trying to help someone salvage a lost love. :)
This, I believe, and the later Lyle and Setsuna talking scenes are some pretty genuine moments in a series where a lot of the dialogue tends to be perfunctory.
Burke Rukes wrote:And, big surprise (not), Anew Returner is revealed to be an Innovator spy. She and Lyle have developed a romantic relationship, and while her feelings for him are genuine, she's also been giving away Ptolemaios' location to A-LAWS for the last 4 months, putting them under constant attack.
A foreseeable plot point and a romance mostly off camera that's supposed to hit hard? I call pacing/story issues.
Burke Rukes wrote:Billy and Graham are on the A-LAWS ships, Billy telling Graham that he's made some improvements to its Trans-Am system. We also see Graham put on a smaller version of his mask, and see that, oooooh big surprise, his face is scarred...Oh, and Graham's been sitting back in his MS the whole time, watching, not even fighting, pondering how to press "the boy" Setsuna into being his "worthy adversary." Yawn...
Come on, Burke, we've got these great little cameo scenes and retreat-battles for one of the main opposition pilots of Season 1. You're supposed to get excited. :P
Burke Rukes wrote:The pilots on both sides launch in their MSs, with Lyle telling Anew "I love you" right before he takes off. Oh boy... one of these two are going to die. :\ I do love this scene, though, with all of the characters quietly saying a name to themselves, someone they're trying to find, or protect, or avenge... everyone has their reason for being there.
It's not bad, but I think the fact that they have to cram that into a launch sequence, as if we don't know the characters and their motivations, seems a little pushy to me. There are a few of these moments in the latter sections of Season 2.
Burke Rukes wrote:Ribbons is now with the A-LAWS fleet pursuing Ptolemy, aboard a big battleship/carrier looking vessel. He's talking with Louise, and we learn he gave her the meds she takes that suppresses the cellular defects in her body. He says he wants Louise to create a united world without war, and to avenge her parents and destroy the Gundams. He's giving her the new MA called Regnant, an improved version of the Empruss...And yet... as I write this, I'm suddenly hit with a Gundam comparison for these two... Ribbons and Louise are Paptimus Scirocco and Sara Zabiarov. Except without the hormone-fueled, doting-on-androgynous-mastermind part.
Well yes, but let's not forget who Ribbons' med supplier is: DURANDAL! :shock: He's selling the pills to Ribbons AND Rau for the cash to start up his Destiny Plan. He also taught Ribbons that you give upgrades to your loyal soldiers: "Shinn, take the Destiny Gundam"...
Burke Rukes wrote:Another big MS fight, with 3 Innovators in MSs and Louise in the Regnant fighting Cherudim, Arios and Seravee...Anyway, the battle focuses mostly on Lyle vs. Anew, and the part where his Trans-Am'ed Cherudim is trashing Anew's MS in slow-motion is very cool and surreal...Lyle and Anew have a naked Newtype soul communion thingie, then Anew dies when her MS blows up.
To my recollection, this was one of the more intensely animated fight scenes in Season 2. (I also liked the moment where Lyle or Setsuna used their helmet to save Mileina earlier on). But all this is sad. And not sad, like crying sad. Sad as in pathetic. We've got this tacked on romance we're supposed to care about linked to animation that is amazing. And we end it with ANOTHER of the increasingly frequent Newtype moments! I can enjoy the fight, but plot-wise, I just think this is them checking another plot point off a chart. Cliff's notes of a relationship, Cliff's notes of a tragedy...

Anyway, 5 episodes left...so we better go find ourselves a place to go to have a conclusion...
Pkmatrix wrote:Suille was a good point to create some diversity and set the world apart more by bringing back some of S1's dynamic. That actually would've been really interesting: a country big enough that the Federation cannot force it to join, thus setting into motion a powerplay between the good guys and bad guys to sway Suille's king. You can end the storyline the same way, but I feel they skipped what was potentially something really interesting.
Yeah, by and large, right or wrong, that's what I was getting at earlier.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Burke Rukes wrote:Another big MS fight, with 3 Innovators in MSs and Louise in the Regnant fighting Cherudim, Arios and Seravee. 00 isn't able to launch yet, and the 0-Raiser's cockpit is still being repaired. The Regnant has a BFG beam weapon, whose beam can turn to follow its target! This is pretty neat, but for the life of me, I've never understood how something like this could actually work. But then, this is science FICTION. :p Anyway, the battle focuses mostly on Lyle vs. Anew, and the part where his Trans-Am'ed Cherudim is trashing Anew's MS in slow-motion is very cool and surreal. Then he rips open her cockpit, says he's going to make her his woman again, that he takes what he wants, even if she's an Innovator. Um, way to be a bit of a chauvenist pig, Lyle. She starts to leave the cockpit, to come with him... but then Ribbons takes control of her, and makes her start fighting back again. Ribbons doesn't like Innovators being treated like lowly humans. Ribbons-controlled Anew damages Cherudim, then flies in for the kill, but 00 finally shows up and shoots Anew's MS. Lyle and Anew have a naked Newtype soul communion thingie, then Anew dies when her MS blows up.

Back on the ship, Lyle is furious , beating the stuffing out of Setsuna, who doesn't fight back, but then Lyle breaks down crying. As he does, Setsuna seems to hear an echo of Marina's voice, singing her song... a telepathic link to her, back on Earth, maybe?
I'm probably one of the few people who felt very sad about Anew's death while at the same actually liking the fact that most of their romance is not shown. I personally rather use my imagination rather than actually watch them do a lot of normal romantic slow stuff that probably won't fit; like that picnic at the dessert. I like how Ribbons essentially jacks Anew at the end forcing Setsuna to kill her on what otherwise would have been a good happy ending for both of them.

But I guess I really like her death more because we got to see the scene where Setsuna just lets Lockon punch him. The part where he overhears Marina singing to the children was nice to, Setsuna is starting to get obsessed with that song and its message.

There's another scene in the next episode that I especially like as well that arose from this incident; a small short scene that I particularly love.

Now that I think about it
Spoiler
Anew can be a bitch to CB though because its the data she stole as mentioned in the episode was the thing that allowed the Innovators to have the Twin Drive and Trans-Am System later on according to Reborns's official web site profile. Billy's Trans-Am System is essentially imperfect and he joins the Innovators to make the Gagas just to get the Trans-Am that the Innovators copy pasted from CB.

Not that the imperfectness of Billy's Trans-Am were ever elaborated in any sidematerials period. Both system still heavily damage the Tau Drive after usage according to various HG manual sources; I reckon the one the Innovators copy pasted was just better because the data was directly copied rather than a system ingeniously engineered from Eifman's theoretical notes with some GN Drive theoretical analysis data way back in S1.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

LightningCount wrote:*Speaking of which, Momento Mori is the Destroy Gundam of 00. We had to have it come back and be easily defeated after it had such a grand first showing in battle. It's reintroduced to be quickly destroyed like the plot device it has truly become.
MM wasn't nearly as bad, the second one still required a good plan and excellent team work to kill. Now if Setsuna and Tieria take out five of the suckers at once while sustaining almost no damage themselves then you can complain.
*Setsuna does his best SHINING FINGER SWORD impression. See, when I see this, combined with the teleporting and all the psychic super-powers, I get nervous about the 00 Raiser being as cheap as Strike Freedom. I know people say it's not, but I see parallels with moments like this. PS: Haro keeps chanting: "O-Raiser Docking Mode!" Saji, sit aside and let Haro do all the work. You're just along for the ride! :lol:
It has been confirmed that Saji is actually required in order to use the Riser Sword. Haro alone does not have the control abilities to make it work. As for the 00 being overpowered, it certainly is but in this case I feel it fits better and it wasn't a rehash of last series unit "with more stuff". It's better used by the plot and Setsuna's skills are pivotal to making it a good combat unit. It also hasn't fallen victim to retcons in order to keep it's spot at the top.
*You didn't like another disposable Innovator getting in the way? He was surely going to take Setsuna out! :wink: I'm telling you, those Druggies knew how to put up a fight...
Disposable innovator who previously nearly destroyed the Ptolemy and later nearly killed two mambers of CB? (speaking of convenient retreats, in most cases these seem to have been planned by Ribbons and never do they decide just to leave without a good reason. Remember he wants the GN Drives and information on the Twin Drive) I also want to point out that most of the times an Innovator is actually beaten it is through surprising them. (Setsuna using the 00's quantization the first time against Revive, Tieria killing Bring with Seraphim, Setsuna getting Renew with the Riser Sword) Hilling Care and Revive Revival survive for a long while. I'll admit these guys get less character than they should but they do prove tough opponents, hardly disposable, and much more intelligent than any of the Druggies.
*Sergei's death scene felt tacked on and half-hearted...especially since no one gives a rip about Andrei as he's been presented.
The fact that it happened so fast was, I think part of the point. Andrei was acting in a fit of rage when he killed Sergei. It was a foolish action in the heat of the moment and a great example of poor communication killing a good man.
Hurry! Faster! Faster, I say, plot! You're running out of episodes! We must find Ribbons! :P
Funny you mention that when this fast forward is the last one in the series, from here on, events lead one into the next. I also want to point out I prefer the option of fast forwarding here than coming up short in the end as I feel Destiny did. I can see -some- potential for this time skip but I think the events that happen afterwords are much more interesting than what could of happened during. (Anew and Lyle's relationship doesn't see like it offers anything I haven't seen a trillion times before. Soma's return to the battlefield may be something but I 'm not sure how interesting it could be.)
Burke Rukes wrote:The pilots on both sides launch in their MSs, with Lyle telling Anew "I love you" right before he takes off. Oh boy... one of these two are going to die. :\ I do love this scene, though, with all of the characters quietly saying a name to themselves, someone they're trying to find, or protect, or avenge... everyone has their reason for being there.
This scene actually gets parodied a lot. I will admit it is a bit awkward dialog-wise but 00 has had that problem since day one. Personally I like it as an affirmation of what these characters really want out of the upcoming events.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Sume Gai wrote:[Disposable innovator who previously nearly destroyed the Ptolemy and later nearly killed two mambers of CB? (speaking of convenient retreats, in most cases these seem to have been planned by Ribbons and never do they decide just to leave without a good reason. Remember he wants the GN Drives and information on the Twin Drive) I also want to point out that most of the times an Innovator is actually beaten it is through surprising them. (Setsuna using the 00's quantization the first time against Revive, Tieria killing Bring with Seraphim, Setsuna getting Renew with the Riser Sword) Hilling Care and Revive Revival survive for a long while. I'll admit these guys get less character than they should but they do prove tough opponents, hardly disposable, and much more intelligent than any of the Druggies.
Don't forget Bring owning Setsuna the first time while decently evading shots from Cherudim and Ptolemaios.
LightningCount wrote:PS: Haro keeps chanting: "O-Raiser Docking Mode!" Saji, sit aside and let Haro do all the work. You're just along for the ride!
In the episode where the third Memento Mori get destroyed, you can see him typing stuff and even directly mentioning that he's helping to synch the Drives. S2 Official File 5 also mentions the Raiser Sword requires a second pilot to man the 0 Raiser; the GN Drives need to be manually synched to a certain level by the second pilot.

I reckon its one of those organizational task fitted towards an engineer that is probably too complicated for an AI to handle at a certain speed especially since the Raiser Sword is Trans-Am mostly condensed into an attack and getting certain requirements fulfilled like the generators by synch them to an higher than normal level in a short period. I say one of his best uses as an engineer in the series.

He also acts as s spotter for Setsuna while in the 0 Raiser pilot seat. The 1/100 0 Raiser manual mentions that 0 Raiser has some of the best sensor ability in any MS period. 0 Raiser pilots are also suppose to act as a second gunner for the GN Beam Machineguns and GN Micro Missiles but Saji doesn't do this.
Spoiler
The only example of the final line being in Episode 24 where he launched the GN Micro Missiles against the Gagas
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Convenient retreats? Besides the one in episode 14 (or was it 15), I don't see the retreat of Graham as convenient. He was out numbered and out of particles. It is like saying retreating when you are out of ammo is convenient. You can't kill the person you are after...thus you get the hell out of there.

It makes perfect sense from a military perspective.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Ha, weighing-in time!

Burke has gone through a lot of the show, and I feel like I don't necessarily have that much to contribute other than the overtly demonized EVUL that is the A-LAWS so there is no chance of moral ambiguity on the part of CB in S2. Go fighting Kiras! Ahem...

Burke said:
I would expect cancer rates or whatever other strange illnesses are cause by red GN particles to be exploding all over the world, particularly among the military personnel who use this stuff every day. An environmental/bio-sphere message in this series, perhaps?
I agree, there was something to build on here more, but it isn't really (kinda like the dropping birth rates in Destiny). Red particles are bad, they mutate you into... dead? But green/blue particles are good, apparently, for reasons and for purposes yet to be determined. Isn't science sometimes nicely color-coded? :D
Tieria sure does doll up nicely in a dress. :P
S/He is the most epic trap I've ever seen in a Gundam. As I recall, back in S1, it took me several episodes to accept he might be a guy.

On Marina there's been a lot of talk, and I'm partially jumping on the "she's useless" -bandwagon. Instead of the grey in S1, S2 makes Marina out to be the extreme pacifist, even self-destructively so. On the other hand I do appreciate the ideological dilemma of surrendering once to violence and being forever tainted by it. In times when we are most tried we're supposed to hold true to our realest values. In that sense Marina really is consistent and ideologically a fundamentalist, even. But that really doesn't make her a useful or active character, if the only merit we can give her is acting as the moral compass for Setsuna. Passive female characters are boring. :P

This takes us neatly into Soma/Marie, who was effectively Cagallified when she hooked up with Allelujah. She hung around the ship doing nothing until getting a few Anew-headaches, and then reverting to Soma when Sergei bought the farm (and you knew the poor man had a death-flag the size of Iowa flying over his head the second Hercury came to chat with him). She just became thoroughly uninteresting, somewhat redeemed by her angry-supersoldier act, but that would hardly qualify as any sort of character development.

Bushido is another case where I felt S2 really didn't know what to do. He's made out to be this important one-man faction, and he does absolutely diddly-squat other than comes around to face-off, always inconclusively, against Setsuna. The Masurao (or whichever way that is spelled officially) is a pretty cool ride, and would rival most of the mobile suits in the show, but it isn't really put into any use. In a way Graham would've been better off dying at the end of S1, but then against for symmetry's sake that would've meant a dead Setsuna too. But I am thoroughly unimpressed by what he did (or rather by what didn't manage to do) in S2.

Innovator names are funny, aren't they? :D And Anew... As I recall, when the scene where Setsuna ices Anew came about, I found it trite in its inevitability. Everyone seemed to understand that except Lyle, who smacked Setsuna out of shape. I mean, that was so foreshadowed there was no other alternative really, and when Lyle can't live up to the fact that his gf had been a spy, and that he had by sheltering enabled her to do all kinds of stuff, was beyond his control (yeah, make you his woman and all that), he goes into a fit when said gf is killed (and as a result his life is saved). It was a cheap romance, expecting us to a) ignore the fact that she was so clearly an innovator and b) to imagine how much in love they had fallen during the time-skip. And then try to milk some emotional impact from her death. The Louise-Saji -relationship had/has more to work with than that, at least.

And yes, the Memento MoriS! One superweapon was not enough, there would have to be two, and they would both have to be destroyed, in retrospect, quite effortlessly by CB. Don't get me wrong, the first MM battle was quite dramatic and well put together to keep you on the edge of your seat, but after that you went "OK, that's done... oh there's a second one!" And then it was the Destroy Gundam all over again.

No, it's not the worst Gundam ever, and no, it didn't disappoint as mightily as Seed, but the new coming of sliced bread Gundam'00 ain't. Well, at least there is the final battle still coming up, which made up for depth or creativity in good old Gundam smackdown. :)
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Soma Taozi said:
It makes perfect sense from a military perspective.
True, but Graham "Gundam Love" Aker and his Mr. Bushido alter ego never struck me as characters adhering to the strictest sense of military discipline or tactics.
Plus what was meant by convenience here was also the way how other people happened to interrupt them, "forcing" the retreat instead the plot allowing them to duke it.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Antares wrote:
Soma Taozi wrote:It makes perfect sense from a military perspective.
True, but Graham "Gundam Love" Aker and his Mr. Bushido alter ego never struck me as characters adhering to the strictest sense of military discipline or tactics.
This is true but keep in mind Graham's Objective is a one-on-one Duel with Setsuna on an even playing field, to fight this one target until he's thoroughly satisfied. Once the Rest of CB shows up that flies out the window not to mention the very real reasons Soma Taozi listed.
Plus what was meant by convenience here was also the way how other people happened to interrupt them, "forcing" the retreat instead the plot allowing them to duke it.
Every story requires convenience such as that to some degree though In this case, even if the fight had gone on, I doubt Graham would have been satisfied with beating the wounded Setsuna.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

SonicSP wrote:Trans-Am works by energizing the particles already stored in the GN Condensers while also at the same time increasing the output rate coming off from the GN Drive...
All of that is well and good, but the fact that they never bothered to elaborate on these facts at any relevant point in the show still makes the entire sequence a pretty poor scene; without all of this information, it ends up coming off as an unexplained ass-pull.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Strike Zero wrote:
SonicSP wrote:Trans-Am works by energizing the particles already stored in the GN Condensers while also at the same time increasing the output rate coming off from the GN Drive...
All of that is well and good, but the fact that they never bothered to elaborate on these facts at any relevant point in the show still makes the entire sequence a pretty poor scene; without all of this information, it ends up coming off as an unexplained ass-pull.
In S1 Episode 23 the dialogue mentioned that Trans-Am works by releasing all the particle stored inside the Gundam and well all know Ptolemaios have large GN Particle storage capacity so its a simple matter of applying the concept to the Ptolemaios as a ship doing Trans-Am. I may have elaborated it in a complex way but it all comes down to the Ptolemaios releasing all its stored particles using its own Trans-Am with Arios also helping out. The only extra thing I got from the sidematerials is something that mentioned that the GN Drive particle output rate triples(even that is just a minor point; the main point here is the Condensers which we know from the word "stored"), aside from that its a matter of applying common sense to things we already know from within the anime.

Its not as if its the first time we saw Ptolemaios use Trans-Am either and its for something that's far less more powerful than breaking escaping the escape velocity of the Earth. And at that time it has three single Drives and a Twin Drive to help out the particle systems. Its just using Trans-Am to exclusively accelerate the Ptolemaios.
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Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam 00!

Sume Gai said:
This is true but keep in mind Graham's Objective is a one-on-one Duel with Setsuna on an even playing field, to fight this one target until he's thoroughly satisfied. Once the Rest of CB shows up that flies out the window not to mention the very real reasons Soma Taozi listed.
Fair enough, I think we're arguing to different sides here. You're looking at the action from the perspective of the drama and the stated motivations, whereas I look at it from the perspective of scripting. If we accept Graham's strictly set parameters, it was still quite evident that from the perspective of scripting he would never seriously clash with Setsuna since something would, inevitably, ruin his perfect moment. Now, I agree that makes sense for Graham's character, but it also devolved him into a third-tier character in S2, someone I cared less about than the Innovators (and none of the cast seemed to take him seriously either). I guess my fault was to expect a bigger role for him, given his mech and mask and all, and that never came about. Ending fights for convenience certainly isn't rare in Gundamdom, but in Graham's case I thought it was poorly handled.

I think it might be interesting to do a small philosophical discussion when Burke is done on how human evolution was set forth in AD,
Spoiler
since without the 00 Gundam, it would've been arguably impossible. All Gundams have their share of loose science, but G'00 is the first one, I think, where tech is integral to advancement. And I'm not talking Coordinator-esque improved physical attributes but actual mental evolution,made even clearer in the movie. One should also point out that it is artifically manufactured or at the very least triggered, too. CE had the SEED, but that ball was pretty solidly dropped which hinted at a more personal development path originating from the self rather than from an outside source.

I always found it funny to consider that techinically Setsuna was the "lead product" of said advancement, which might well make quite a few people opt out of the arrangement. :mrgreen:
Although if that conversation was already had in the original Gundam00 discussion thread, I don't know if it's necessary to rehash it.
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