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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:13 pm 
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Lackey GM Pilot

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Alright, it's time to kick off my review and comments thread for Gundam 00! Just so everyone knows, I'm watching this series in the original Japanese with subtitles, and I ask that everyone PLEASE refrain from putting spoilers for me in this thread! Or if you have to put spoilers in your replies, please hide them with spoiler tags. This is my first time watching the series and I love being surprised. :)

So here we go with Episodes 1 thru 5! I'm going to try to avoid diving into too much detail this time (yeah, yeah, I know I said the same thing when I started the Destiny thread and I couldn't do it there :P ), just give my overall impression of things and point out specific details I want to comment on.

I'll get the basics out of the way and talk about the visuals first. The animation is outstanding, especially the battle scenes! SEED and Destiny set a new bar for TV Gundam animation (stock footage abuse aside), and 00 just raised it. I love the action, the "camera" angles, the movement of the mobile suits, and so far, 5 episodes in, I haven't noticed ANY re-used stock footage yet. :P I really like how the movements of the mobile suits are fluid and dynamic when they need to be, and rough and more realistic when they need to be. The shaky-cam is done very well and not over-abused and adds extra realism to the combat.

The mecha designs are really slick, too - it's a whole new flavor of Gundam design, which is refreshing and eye-catching. The only exception is the mysterious Gundam we see in the young Setsuna flashback war scene at the start of the first episode, which looks like a standard Kunio Okawara-designed RX-78 but with a GN drive energy cone on its back. The main Gundam themselves are very cool. The Exia is a really stylish take on your "standard" Gundam, but packing a big sword/blade, which is fun to watch in action, and so far it's my favorite. The Kyrios is my 2nd favorite - I'm a sucker for Zeta Gundam-ish transformable fighter Gundams. :P The Dynames is impressive as well, and it might nudge out the Buster as my favorite artillery type Gundam. The Virtue... it looks cool, but man, does it need to lay off the donuts and eat a salad once in a while. :P Actually, I get its design intention, and I think it's neat in its way - it harkens back to the super-heavy armor of certain MSs, like the GP02.

The non-Gundams are probably some of the best I've ever seen! The Flag is funky yet very stylish, and it truly looks like it can fly through the air. The various ground-pounder MSs look fantastic, too, very much walking tanks, very realistic.

The Ptolemaios is a very neat ship design, very functional for space, and I love its modular storage hangars. I'm a bit baffled on one point, though - does the ship run on the GN powerplants from the Gundams themselves? If all the Gundams are gone, what does it use for power? This seems like a very poor engineering decision, but if there's a good explanation for it (that isn't spoiler-y), I'm all ears. :)

As for the character designs, I'm still not 100% crazy about them, but I think they're a FAR sight better than what we saw in the CE-verse. Sure, there's still a few pretty-boys like Allelujah and Tieria (who looks so completely effiminate it caught me off-guard. :P ). Setsuna and Stratos look pretty decent and not too strange. The supporting characters have an interesting mix of styles, from ordinary-looking, realistic characters (usually the older military officers and politicians), some stylish characters, some weird characters, some characters who look like they were lifted out of a fighting video game. It's a strange mix, but overall nothing too unpleasant. Oh... and Murrue Ramius is hot... but Sumeragi Noriega is going to seriously give her a run for her money. :D

So, let's talk about the story. We start off with a scene from Setsuna's childhood, several years before the current time, where he's a guerilla fighter in the Republic of Krugis in the Middle East. It's a pretty brutal and realistic looking battle, with propaganda about holy wars and infidels being broadcast over loudspeakers. Chilling stuff. And young Setsuna gets a look at the mystery Gundam that shows up and destroys the mobile suits plaguing the city he's fighting in. I'm assuming this whole scene is going to have some major significance for Setsuna and the plot later on in the series. :)

Fast forward to the present, AD 2307. The political setting for this future Earth is interesting, pretty much an extension of modern-day world politics, with 3 superpowers engaged in a mix of hot and cold wars and proxy wars through smaller countries and territories around the world. It sounds like space colony construction is currently underway, but humanity's big space technology achievement is the set of 3 massive orbital elevators, each controlled by one of the three major powers. With fossil fuels used up, Earth's main energy source is the solar power collected by arrays on these elevators up in orbit, which sends the power down to Earth for distribution. I guess over the next 300 years, most of the nations on Earth STILL haven't figured out that geothermal is the way to go to solve most of humanity's energy problems. Ask the people Iceland. 70% of their national energy needs are met by geothermal TODAY, and it's estimated that there's enough accessible geothermal energy inside our planet to power our current energy levels for the next several THOUSAND years. But oh well. This Gundam story needs a source of conflict, so this fills the bill. :P

Mobile suits have been around for a while, among the various superpowers, and are constantly seen on the frontlines of the various brushfire wars we see so far. Into this situation enters Celestial Being, an armed independent group with the stated goal of eliminating warfare on Earth by intervening in current armed conflicts and preventing new ones. Over the first few episodes, they do exactly as they say, throwing themselves into regional conflicts and putting down the aggressors with deadly efficiency. The Celestial Being warriors are none other than the "Gundam Meister" pilots of 4 previously unknown mobile suits called Gundams. They're fast, they're well armed, and none of the 3 big superpowers' militaries have anything that can fight them. Not that that's going to stop them from working on that problem. Almost immediately, the Union's ace MS pilot Graham and his effiminate bespectacled ponytailed buddy Billy are assigned to an anti-Gundam task force, and they set to work on modifying one of their standard Flags to be able to tackle a Gundam. Likewise, the Human Reform League also deploys its own special team to try to capture a Gundam, whose ranks include a young "Super Soldier" girl named Soma.

Graham's customized Flag manages to take on the Exia and survive. And up at one of the orbital elevators, Soma's on a test flight with her commanding officer, Sergei, when Soma suddenly freaks out, at the same time that Allelujah Haptism (okay, that's such a silly and stupid name) is there, and he has a reaction to her presence outside as well. Allelujah seems to hear some voices in his head and I wonder what's up with that? Soma goes nuts and starts shooting at the orbital elevator, blowing off a gravity-rotation section block which just happens to be currently occupied, among many other civilians, a young student who happens to be next-door neighbors to Exia pilot Setsuna on Earth, and his girlfriend. Sergei tries to stop the block section from falling to Earth, and he gets some much-needed assistance from Allelujah in his Kyrios Gundam, plus some VERY impressive shooting from the ground by Lockon in his Dynames (with a little help from Setsuna in the Exia). This was a pretty awesome rescue, and I can only imagine this rescue helps improve public opinion of the enigmatic Celestial Being.

Celestial Being, for its part, seems like a fusion of the Operation Meteor pilot team from Gundam Wing and the Three Ships Alliance from SEED. You have a team of 4 specialized Gundams, with pilots who (for the most part) seem very strange and emotionless and detacted - except for Lockon, who seems pretty normal. I swear, Setsuna seems to be channelling Heero Yuy. Allelujah has his strange voices-in-his-head thing, and Tieria.... strikes me as being VERY arrogant and cold. At least Lockon holds the "normal folks" fort on this Gundam team, and he even has one of the least-annoying and most-useful Haro's in Gundamdom. :D I'm not sure what to make of the Ptolemaios' crew yet, except Sumeragi is very hot. She has great curves, and she's not afraid to show 'em. However, the CB gang seem to be taking their mission orders.... from a computer system called Vega? And Celestial Being's introduction video to the world via the media is given by a rich guy who helped designed the orbital elevator/solar energy system... and supposedly died 200 years ago. Very intriguing...

Oh and there's some other minor characters as well. CB has a few other people groundside on Earth, though I'm not sure who they are and what they do yet. We also see a lot of the political stuff from inside the offices and palaces of various powers, big and small, reacting to the presence of CB.

I'm not sure what else to say at this point, other than I really enjoyed these first 5 episodes very much! 00 feels like a very different kind of Gundam series, something new and fresh and different, but still familiar. Lots of mystery and political intrigue, a very large cast right off the bat that I have to start memorizing names for these reviews for, and some very cool mobile suit combat action. Oh, and there's no Gundamjacking! I feel like I ought to feel cheated because of that, but I most certainly don't. :P

I really like what I see, and I'm excited and curious to see where this series goes. Be back soon to talk about episodes 6 thru 10!

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Last edited by Burke Rukes on Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:29 pm 
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Gundam 00 remains, in all honesty, the only Gundam series that I couldn't get through. I'm not exactly sure where it failed for me, but I completely lost interest in it. I don't want to color your amusing and usually upbeat reviews, though... I'm just wondering if I can see some of the reasons my interest died (near the middle of the first season) in what you're going to be writing.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:08 am 
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In opposition to Jaynz, something about 00 really got me, and it stole my Number 1 favorite spot from 08th MS Team. I'm not really sure what it was that did it, or if it were a combination of factors or what, but 00 and the vast majority of its extra stuff is, to me, really awesome. Thinking a little more about it it may be mostly the MS designs, and several of the characters. I dunno, I could probably go into detail and name individual little things that I love, but that wouldn't be helpful or even help narrow it down haha.

As to the Ptolemy, it has big GN Condensors (batteries more or less) onboard that are recharged when the Gundams' GN Drives are linked to it. I think you see in episode 3 or something, when Tieria returns from Earth, an arm comes out of the interior of the Virtue's little docking area and connects to the GN Drive cone. Rather than powering the Gundam, the GN Drive's particles generated from then on will power the Ptolemy and refill its condensors.

Celestial Being operates on a very finite number of GN Drives, and short of using a different power source entirely doesn't have much of a choice (and would force it to dock somewhere and supply or otherwise be marginally more trackable).

For Tieria, I'm really looking forward to what you think of him as time goes on. For me, he was my absolute least favorite character to start out with, precisely because of how you described him. He's cold, detached, and arrogant in a way that rubbed me the wrong way so bad. However, by the end of the series (second season/movie), he had grown to be my favorite character among the Meisters. Oddly enough, my favorite Gundams eventually swung to his as well, though originally I was enamored of the Dynames (and Lockon for favorite Meister).

My participation in your Destiny thread was sparse simply 'cause I don't remember it too well and didn't enjoy it that much, but I am very much looking forward to your 00 threads! :D So much fun to read.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:20 am 
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If you have any particular questions concerning the tech, or specifics of things, I'd field them to Homeless.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:24 am 
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Quite contrary of Jaynz, AD is my one of my most favourite Gundam AU, and I enjoyed the show during its run. Oh, BTW, don't miss out the 00 movie too when you finished the TV series, Burke, I think the movie bring a good conclusion to the AD universe. :)

Quote:
The mecha designs are really slick, too - it's a whole new flavor of Gundam design, which is refreshing and eye-catching. The only exception is the mysterious Gundam we see in the young Setsuna flashback war scene at the start of the first episode, which looks like a standard Kunio Okawara-designed RX-78 but with a GN drive energy cone on its back. The main Gundam themselves are very cool. The Exia is a really stylish take on your "standard" Gundam, but packing a big sword/blade, which is fun to watch in action, and so far it's my favorite. The Kyrios is my 2nd favorite - I'm a sucker for Zeta Gundam-ish transformable fighter Gundams. The Dynames is impressive as well, and it might nudge out the Buster as my favorite artillery type Gundam. The Virtue... it looks cool, but man, does it need to lay off the donuts and eat a salad once in a while. Actually, I get its design intention, and I think it's neat in its way - it harkens back to the super-heavy armor of certain MSs, like the GP02.


Exia is very well designed and hence is also my favourite for this season, although my 2nd favourite is a tie between Dynames and Virtue. I like MS with BFGs. :D

Quote:
The non-Gundams are probably some of the best I've ever seen! The Flag is funky yet very stylish, and it truly looks like it can fly through the air. The various ground-pounder MSs look fantastic, too, very much walking tanks, very realistic.


Yeah, Flag is my most favourite grunt in 00, and as the series progress, I hope you will see why I loved them.

Quote:
The Ptolemaios is a very neat ship design, very functional for space, and I love its modular storage hangars. I'm a bit baffled on one point, though - does the ship run on the GN powerplants from the Gundams themselves? If all the Gundams are gone, what does it use for power? This seems like a very poor engineering decision, but if there's a good explanation for it (that isn't spoiler-y), I'm all ears.


Ptolemaios didn't use the GN Drives directly; it use the GN Condensers, which stores GN Particles produced by GN Drives. Think of it as capacitors, which stored charges from a power source/battery. Also, as you will learn later, Celestial Being is very stingy when it comes to the matters of GN Drives.

Quote:
Fast forward to the present, AD 2307. The political setting for this future Earth is interesting, pretty much an extension of modern-day world politics, with 3 superpowers engaged in a mix of hot and cold wars and proxy wars through smaller countries and territories around the world. It sounds like space colony construction is currently underway, but humanity's big space technology achievement is the set of 3 massive orbital elevators, each controlled by one of the three major powers. With fossil fuels used up, Earth's main energy source is the solar power collected by arrays on these elevators up in orbit, which sends the power down to Earth for distribution. I guess over the next 300 years, most of the nations on Earth STILL haven't figured out that geothermal is the way to go to solve most of humanity's energy problems. Ask the people Iceland. 70% of their national energy needs are met by geothermal TODAY, and it's estimated that there's enough accessible geothermal energy inside our planet to power our current energy levels for the next several THOUSAND years. But oh well. This Gundam story needs a source of conflict, so this fills the bill.


Keep asking yourself this same question (why the whole world is using solar power instead of other alternative sources) as you progress, it's a important plot point. :)


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:35 am 
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Personally, the first season of 00 is probably my favorite 21st century Gundam series (with Unicorn coming up swiftly from behind, as of Episode 3). It looks good, design- and animation-wise, it's relatively smart, and it runs at a pretty efficient clip. It also manages a pretty nice balance between offering something new and staying Gundam enough, in my opinion (2chan, as I understand, begs to differ in the whiniest way possible).

People sometimes call it "Wing 2.0," but that's really not a bad thing. If Bandai had been able to keep up Gundam's American momentum post-Wing (starting with showing X next, not the original series), 00 probably could've continued that momentum and maybe even become a decently rated little show, over here.

However, that's not the way it worked out, c'est la vie.

This show had me hooked from the first episode, though. It's a stark contrast to how I still haven't bothered to watch the second episode of AGE (that's not me saying AGE is bad... I just haven't been motivated to watch the second episode). Hope you enjoy this one. And, for what it's worth, I think Kouga's women are much hotter than Hirai's. :P

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:38 am 
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First time involving myself to this rather nostalgic series of topics and I just have to reply to two points in Burke's thread starter post that drew my attention.

Burke Rukes wrote:
The Virtue... it looks cool, but man, does it need to lay off the donuts and eat a salad once in a while. :P


I'm so going to enjoy your reaction to episode 10. The wait is almost unbearable, but I bet that it'll be worth it.

Burke Rukes wrote:
Sure, there's still a few pretty-boys like Allelujah and Tieria (who looks so completely effiminate it caught me off-guard. :P ).


Oh how do I respond to that one without too much spoiling..... :|

Might as well give you some friendly advise on the subject. When you do reach Episode 8 in Season 2, be careful. Its.... troubling is the best I can say without too much spoiler.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:04 am 
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Sabersonic wrote:
I'm so going to enjoy your reaction to episode 10. The wait is almost unbearable, but I bet that it'll be worth it.


I also want to see Burke's reaction to that particular episode too, LOL. :p Let just say that I didn't said all the reasons why Virtue is my second favourite, hehe...


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:07 am 
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Sulendil Zeta wrote:
Sabersonic wrote:
I'm so going to enjoy your reaction to episode 10. The wait is almost unbearable, but I bet that it'll be worth it.


I also want to see Burke's reaction to that particular episode too, LOL. :p Let just say that I didn't said all the reasons why Virtue is my second favourite, hehe...

The Virtue's more interesting features is also one of the reasons the suit really grew on me too haha. Episode 10 was so awesome to see that first time. I think everyone sort of expected it, but it was still pretty wow-ing haha. I'm also looking forward to his reaction.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:53 am 
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Burke:

You've been calling Setsuna "Seiran" in your reviews; not sure what that's about. Also, Allelujah's last name is Haptism. I'm starting to think you're not watching official translations, which may cause trouble at some point, as words do have meaning. The Celestial Being super-computer is Veda, named after the Sandskrit word for "knowledge", and also in reference to the Vedas, the collection of the oldest Sandskrit literature & Hindu texts. Celestial Being likes to name things in (largely) dead languages, hence all the Greek & Latin in their equipment names.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:19 am 
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Welcome to the best Gundam series of 2000-2009! Yes, that's my story, and I'm keeping it. This also includes both seasons of the show thank you very much. I also largely credit Gundam 00 with reigniting my love of Gundam, along with Zeta and the Gundamn! podcast.

It's funny you should make Wing comparisons as I was also guilty of this. *Sigh* It just got to the point where a lot of us really wanted the trolls to stop whinging about Wing 2.0 this and Heero 2.0 that.

In any case, here's hoping that you get as much enjoyment out of Gundam 00 that I did.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:21 am 
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Just as an aside, Setsuna also shares a lot of similarities with Sousuke Sagara from Full Metal Panic! though he too is rather Heero-like haha. I imagine the three of them get along quite well in SRW.

I too immediately thought of it as a reimagining of Wing, complete with Pacifist Princess, but it thankfully went in a different direction that I frankly loved.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:21 am 
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Black Knight wrote:
Burke:

You've been calling Setsuna "Seiran" in your reviews; not sure what that's about. Also, Allelujah's last name is Haptism. I'm starting to think you're not watching official translations, which may cause trouble at some point, as words do have meaning. The Celestial Being super-computer is Veda, named after the Sandskrit word for "knowledge", and also in reference to the Vedas, the collection of the oldest Sandskrit literature & Hindu texts. Celestial Being likes to name things in (largely) dead languages, hence all the Greek & Latin in their equipment names.


Thanks for pointing out the mistakes, I've made the corrections. I'm watching official translations - either that or Amazon is directly selling VERY convincing bootlegs at full retail price. :P I'm just having a hard time adjusting my brain to a whole new set of weird names. The "Seiran" name is still stuck in my head from watching Destiny, and Setsuna's last name is Seiei... hence much confusion. Even as I'm taking notes while watching 00, I keep spelling Setsuna's first name wrong half the time. It's just a period of adjustment - Gundam's oft-used tradition of using damned weird names, either made up entirely or borrowed from really obscure sources. And yeah, Allelujah's last name is Haptism, but my brain saw "baptism." Like I said... I'm adjusting. Thanks for letting me know. :)

Oh, and I just now finished watching Episodes 6 thru 10 - some really good stuff, and now my questions are starting to pile up! But it's late and I'm tired and I'll be back tomorrow to post my review/comments/questions for those episodes.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:33 am 
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Just to make a couple of quick notes...

-Yes, the mystery Gundam from Setsuna's past was designed by Okawara. They had to squeeze him in somewhere. :P

-The character designer for 00 is Yun Kouga, an artist best known for the BL series Loveless. This of course drew comment, especially because Setsuna is the spitting image of Ritsuka, the protagonist of that series. Still, the character designs are fresh and interesting, so I'm not going to break out the pitchforks and torches.

Personally, 00 just didn't grab me. I watched the first season, but didn't find myself too interested in picking up the second after just four episodes. I'm not saying it's a bad show, just that it didn't appeal to me as an individual. Obviously your mileage is going to vary.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:37 am 
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BURKE: Holy smokes! You're watching 00 already?! I thought you were going to take a break? Hmm. Well, guess I'll be spending some more time on these forums. :P

As I comment on your comments, I'll be making some broad statements here, though they're not particularly spoilers (certainly not blatant or detailed ones). Just opinions/perceptions...

OK, Gundam 00!--I have a powerful love-hate (no, more like love-sadness/frustration) relationship with this one. :mrgreen: All and all, it was a mixed bag like Destiny for me, but much more so in a tragic kind of way. The premise is very interesting, bursting with possibilities...and the first four episodes set up a great mix of mystery, political intrigue, cool mecha, and gorgeous action. Episode 5 was decent (especially the latter portions), but it felt a little misplaced/disjointed somehow in the pacing to this point (IE: 1-4). Nonetheless, these early portions of the series have a flow that leaves you engaged and wanting things to escalate...In some ways, early on, it makes you feel like you're watching Gundam Wing meets Gasaraki meets Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. That's a heck of a combination! :D

Roughly, the first 15-and-a-half episodes contain about 85% of my favorite scenes and ideas in the series. It feels like they're largely on track. After that, it has its ups and downs, but takes its own Destiny-style nosedive pacing/story/character-wise much earlier and harder than Destiny, IMO. (But let me tell you, I was hyped for this 00 series and was waiting for it to hit that "a-ha" in-stride moment after early build-up, and so I was extra let down in my case). Nevertheless, Season 1 is where something like 98.9% of the TV gold is in 00's TV run. That's the one worth collecting.

Burke Rukes wrote:
I'll get the basics out of the way and talk about the visuals first. The animation is outstanding, especially the battle scenes! SEED and Destiny set a new bar for TV Gundam animation (stock footage abuse aside), and 00 just raised it. I love the action, the "camera" angles, the movement of the mobile suits, and so far, 5 episodes in, I haven't noticed ANY re-used stock footage yet. :P I really like how the movements of the mobile suits are fluid and dynamic when they need to be, and rough and more realistic when they need to be. The shaky-cam is done very well and not over-abused and adds extra realism to the combat.


The action animation contains very little stock footage, and is amazing! A highlight of 00. However, there's not quite as good of "posing" for the mecha overall as say, Wing, G, or SEED, and the one-on-one duels are often cut short or leave something to be desired in terms of impactful choreography. But the Gundam vs. grunts (particularly this early in the series), with the contrasts in weaponry and dynamic movements are beautiful! On the other hand, with the animation, some of the background artwork is not as detailed or dynamic as what was seen in Cosmic Era I've noticed in retrospect (more sterile environments). As you said, the character designs are more in the right direction than CE, but are still a little off--too skinny/soft?

Burke Rukes wrote:
The mecha designs are really slick, too - it's a whole new flavor of Gundam design, which is refreshing and eye-catching. The only exception is the mysterious Gundam we see in the young Setsuna flashback war scene at the start of the first episode, which looks like a standard Kunio Okawara-designed RX-78 but with a GN drive energy cone on its back....The non-Gundams are probably some of the best I've ever seen! The Flag is funky yet very stylish, and it truly looks like it can fly through the air. The various ground-pounder MSs look fantastic, too, very much walking tanks, very realistic.


Yeah, the Gundams make a statement, and you've picked up on their connections to the past while still being very fresh. Honestly, I like all of them. The Flags and Enacts are neat, if underused, and the Tierens and Anfs (walking tank-types) bring to mind Gasaraki's realistic mecha. I can't say too much, except I really wish the MS design work had been as consistent and fresh throughout the whole series, and used more effectively...

Oh, and as for CB's mothership. The Gundams have unlimited energy, but share that with the mothership. It can run on its own charge for a certain amount of time. But that's why the Gundams are cycled back into space every now and then, to recharge the ship so it can function. I think there's a missed opportunity somewhere in here... :roll: :(

Burke Rukes wrote:
Fast forward to the present, AD 2307. The political setting for this future Earth is interesting, pretty much an extension of modern-day world politics, with 3 superpowers engaged in a mix of hot and cold wars and proxy wars through smaller countries and territories around the world. It sounds like space colony construction is currently underway, but humanity's big space technology achievement is the set of 3 massive orbital elevators, each controlled by one of the three major powers. With fossil fuels used up, Earth's main energy source is the solar power collected by arrays on these elevators up in orbit, which sends the power down to Earth for distribution...Mobile suits have been around for a while, among the various superpowers, and are constantly seen on the frontlines of the various brushfire wars we see so far. Into this situation enters Celestial Being, an armed independent group with the stated goal of eliminating warfare on Earth by intervening in current armed conflicts and preventing new ones.


Yes, this is the premise. It "promises" a lot of interesting things, what with the solar energy, the orbital elevators, and all the political dealings of a tri-polar world and a group of mighty interventionists. Exciting stuff! And you see how it plays out in dynamic and yet subtle ways with the Taribia conflict of Episode 4, various factions looking to take advantage of the political situation of Celestial Being and preexisting conflicts. I like how it touches on real-world conflicts along the way, like in Episode 2. Those are the moments where 00 is at its best. But sometimes...promises are meant to be...broken? Huh?

Burke Rukes wrote:
Almost immediately, the Union's ace MS pilot Graham and his effiminate bespectacled ponytailed buddy Billy are assigned to an anti-Gundam task force, and they set to work on modifying one of their standard Flags to be able to tackle a Gundam.


Billy's not bad, and Professor Aifman's cool. I like Graham right here--quirky and confident. It's cool that regular forces aren't giving up and are going to challenge these Gundams. That's very Zechs of Graham. 8) I'm glad they started this good plot thread about the Flags...started it and... :?

Burke Rukes wrote:
Celestial Being, for its part, seems like a fusion of the Operation Meteor pilot team from Gundam Wing and the Three Ships Alliance from SEED. You have a team of 4 specialized Gundams, with pilots who (for the most part) seem very strange and emotionless and detacted - except for Lockon, who seems pretty normal. I swear, Seiran seems to be channelling Heero Yuy. Allelujah has his strange voices-in-his-head thing, and Tieria.... strikes me as being VERY arrogant and cold. At least Lockon holds the "normal folks" fort on this Gundam team, and he even has one of the least-annoying and most-useful Haro's in Gundamdom...However, the CB gang seem to be taking their mission orders.... from a computer system called Vega? And Celestial Being's introduction video to the world via the media is given by a rich guy who helped designed the orbital elevator/solar energy system... and supposedly died 200 years ago. Very intriguing...


Yeah, there is definitely a Gundam Wing vibe going on. The episode 3 battle where Sergei flies in to intercept Setsuna (not Seiran from Destiny!) in that flight-type Tieren and tries to damage the Gundam's head was similar to, and perhaps a reference to, Lady Une doing that versus Wu Fei in episode 8 of Wing.

The Gundam Wing similarities and inspirations are there in characters and some basic plot elements and scenarios, but probably mostly surface. As far as moving a plot along, creating a variety of scenarios in and out of the cockpit, and conducting duels, 00 might have done well to take a little more of a look at Wing...

Regardless, the 00 team is more of a "team" than the Operation Meteor guys, who were independent guerrilla fighters for most of the Wing series, who could be just as much enemies as allies, until the very end.

I'll admit, expecting more of the dynamic intensity of Wing affected the way I first saw this series. Seeing it again, I respect (even love) what it got right and what it tried, but sourly regret what could have been--especially given that premise and all its promises...

...Writing this, I still feet deceived and cheated. :cry: :lol:

Honestly, and even though I'm a big fan of Wing, I say this analytically: In terms of "getting things done," and exploring a world and its possibilities, 00 looks especially naked next to Wing.

Burke Rukes wrote:
Oh and there's some other minor characters as well. CB has a few other people groundside on Earth, though I'm not sure who they are and what they do yet. We also see a lot of the political stuff from inside the offices and palaces of various powers, big and small, reacting to the presence of CB.


The consistent handling of characters is a problem in 00 for me. (For that matter, I don't know that we get enough character time with the overall cast). The political background dealings are neat, and the hinted or occasional cloak-and-dagger stuff is nice. The regular life stuff is awkward more often than not. All and all, it seems like the writers struggle to work in these minor characters, despite some of them being rather fascinating. I appreciate what they're trying to do with these other points of view, but some work better than others, or are at least utilized/fleshed out better than others.

All right, some great episodes are nigh! Oh, and the opening/ending theme music and credits are awesome! Plus, the soundtrack's not bad. It's not consistent throughout, and it takes some getting used to, but it has some real standout tunes.

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Last edited by LightningCount on Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:03 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:44 am 
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Speaking of Setsuna, Burke do you notice at this point that he think he's a Gundam? Not a Gundam pilot, not a soldier who loved Gundam a bit too much (we have another candidate for that :D), but as a literal walking Gundam? Heck, I don't think I have meet any Gundam characters that idolize Gundam to this degree, it put Nina's (of 0083) obsession of Gundam looks normal by comparison, which make him quite different compared to Heero Yuy IMHO. :)


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:58 am 
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Well, Setsuna's idolization of the Gundam puts it in a little different light for him too, than in comparison to past leads who mostly didn't have any affiliation with a Gundam before they stumbled into the cockpit or were introduced on a 'This is part of your job' note to it.

Gundam is synonymous with something akin to 'Savior' to Setsuna. Though the poor boy's nearly cracked enough it wouldn't terribly surprise me if he did occasionally dream he was a GN Particle powered machine o' awesome, I think he proclaims himself as a Gundam relative to how he sees them, rather than how the rest of the world sees them haha.

If it were a butterfly that descended the skies that day and took out those Anf, I'm sure he'd running around with his arms back like wings proclaiming himself a butterfly. Probably chased by men in long white coats.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:07 am 
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Burke Rukes wrote:
I'm watching official translations - either that or Amazon is directly selling VERY convincing bootlegs at full retail price. :P I'm just having a hard time adjusting my brain to a whole new set of weird names.

Call it an artifact of the fansub days or a stubborn resistance to a minor bit of censorship, but I still call Krugis "Kurdistan."

Y'know, because it is Kurdistan, with all the baggage that implies (and it does come up again at least once, so it'd do you well to remember that Setsuna is not vaguely Middle-Eastern, but Kurdish). To continue on with LightningCount's grievances, details like that are very promising (as well as the Sinhalese-Tamil conflict on Ceylon). It's like the writers actually gave a damn and decided to read a book or two before writing the script. :wink:

Perhaps it shouldn't, but the very fact a Japanese pop-sci-fi TV show is acknowledging that Kurds exist feels like so much of a step in the right direction that I can't help but give it extra points. Even if this show doesn't go anywhere near as far as it could in defining and detailing the extent of world conflict that Celestial Being is fighting against.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:10 am 
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APendragon wrote:
Well, Setsuna's idolization of the Gundam puts it in a little different light for him too, than in comparison to past leads who mostly didn't have any affiliation with a Gundam before they stumbled into the cockpit or were introduced on a 'This is part of your job' note to it.

Gundam is synonymous with something akin to 'Savior' to Setsuna. Though the poor boy's nearly cracked enough it wouldn't terribly surprise me if he did occasionally dream he was a GN Particle powered machine o' awesome, I think he proclaims himself as a Gundam relative to how he sees them, rather than how the rest of the world sees them haha.

If it were a butterfly that descended the skies that day and took out those Anf, I'm sure he'd running around with his arms back like wings proclaiming himself a butterfly. Probably chased by men in long white coats.


This theme about Setsuna was something I liked about 00 and helped it stand out, particularly with the ramifications he experiences. Season 1 does a really good job of it. HOWEVER, I want to note that as for characters not having "any affiliation with a Gundam"...Wing REALLY stressed that the Gundams were friends and companions of the pilots. They were fighting such a lonely battle, they took meaning and friendship. It's not the same as thinking you "are" a Gundam, but the Operation Meteor guys, and Zechs, too, thought of MS as living allies, which is pretty close. "Let's get going, eh, Tallgeese?" "Never give up till the end, that's what Heavyarms has taught me." "Thank you, Sandrock!" "Zero is telling me", etc etc. Duo loses it when Deathsythe gets publically trashed. Wu Fei's dead betrothed is his Gundam to him ("Nataku, I don't have the right to...") something/someone he has to live up to. There are lots of examples, but you get the picture. Wing really made the Gundams into integral characters as much as the pilots. It was another groundbreaking element that made Gundams "special" and helped emphasize why the show is called Gundam.

Kenji wrote:
...To continue on with LightningCount's grievances, details like that are very promising (as well as the Sinhalese-Tamil conflict on Ceylon)...Perhaps it shouldn't, but the very fact a Japanese pop-sci-fi TV show is acknowledging that Kurds exist feels like so much of a step in the right direction that I can't help but give it extra points. Even if this show doesn't go anywhere near as far as it could in defining and detailing the extent of world conflict that Celestial Being is fighting against.


Phew. Thank goodness. I'm not alone here! :D (I've been fielding some "amiable" tomatoes coming my way in recent weeks over these grievances it seems like).

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Last edited by LightningCount on Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:15 am 
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iCards wrote:
Setsuna got down on his knee in the hanger and asked "Will you marry me?"

Allenby Beardsley who walked in on him screamed "What in blue blazes did you just ask my Nobel Gundam to do?"

Setsuna was then chased out of the hanger.


Lolz.

Kenji wrote:
Sinhalese-Tamil conflict on Ceylon

I'm pretty sure this was just the background reason for CB intervening. I really don't think they intended it to be anymore than it was

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