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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Jaeger was a pretty cool guy.

Spoiler: show
Glad he got to live.

I was rather surprised by how many fatalities there were.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:23 am 
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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:56 am 
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NastyNate wrote:
What are your thoughts of the show?

I thought it was terrible.

I could probably go into a very long-winded rant about why that is with little difficulty, but that would result in a ridiculously large wall of text that I'm not sure everybody here would be interested in surmounting.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:16 am 
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Strike Zero wrote:
NastyNate wrote:
What are your thoughts of the show?

I thought it was terrible.

I could probably go into a very long-winded rant about why that is with little difficulty, but that would result in a ridiculously large wall of text that I'm not sure everybody here would be interested in surmounting.

Did you play the game at all and like that better by any chance?

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:57 am 
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Strike good to have a differing point of view in the pool. I did have a few problems with the general cliche anime things. Had kind of but not really a slow start up. Boy was there some character development in this show.

And man did I find this show entertaining. After the above mentioned spoiler I went on an all night benge to finish the anime. Turned out to be one of my favorite shows. On up there with gundam, macross, trigun and rurouni kenshin.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:23 pm 
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Wingnut wrote:
Did you play the game at all and like that better by any chance?

Why, how did you know? :lol:

Yes, indeed. Before the Valkyria Chronicles anime was even announced, I had already played and beaten the original PS3 game while loving it to death. When I first learned that it was getting an animated adaptation, I was a tad skeptical, but mostly optimistic. To say that I was disappointed with the way things played out would be an understatement.

Now, I can tell that at its most basic elements, Valkyria Chronicles the anime is at the very least a decent show, given the amount of people who say they enjoyed watching it. Of course, most of these people also admit that they themselves have never touched the PS3 game prior to viewing it. While it may be a decent show, it is also a poor adaptation, and for many reasons.

I know I said before that I wouldn't subject anybody to dredging through a massive wall of text, but I also want to make sure that people understand where I as a fan of the game am coming from when I express such extreme disappointment in the anime we got. Though I did my best to narrow down my misgivings with the show into a select few main points, my feelings on the matter still resulted in me having a lot to say. As such, the following has been condensed into spoiler tags due to length (as well as for containing major spoilers).

For those who would press on: you have been warned.

Spoiler: show
>>> Lack of Squad Involvement

Valkyria Chronicles is a squad-based game with missions that require the use of planning and tactics. Mission objectives could be achieved by using any number of methods by making use of your various troops and their combat specialties.

This aspect of the fighting does not carry over AT ALL into the anime. For a show that centers in on a militia squad, there sure isn't a whole lot of squad-based combat to be seen. Despite being an entire colorful cast at the writer's disposal, the majority of Squad 7 is often reduced to hanging around in the background and firing randomly as a way to pad out the action while the main protagonists end up taking care of the main problems.

The most disappointing thing is that this anime was the perfect opportunity for the writers to explore the various supporting characters and show them active in their roles as shocktroopers, lancers, snipers, etc. Instead, every enemy encounter that didn't already have an important plot-related element attached to it tended to be solved by how awesome the Edelweiss is, or through overuse of Alicia's Valkyria powers (more on this later).

>>> Overall Unimpressiveness

If it was impressive in the show, I can pretty much guarantee you that it was even more impressive in the game. Whether you attribute it to lackluster animation or poor direction, nothing that was adapted in the anime ever came close to matching the presentation of the original. The most significant example of this is probably the first fight between Alicia and Selvaria, which ultimately just ends up coming off as a badly re-animated version of their fight from the game. When it reaches the point that I'm sitting here and saying to myself, "gee, I wish they had just inserted the original cut-scene instead of presenting us with what have here," something has gone very, very wrong.

>>> The Love Triangle

Was stupid. I can't really say that I hated it while it was going on, but it was still really, really stupid and completely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. As you have no doubt by now gathered, the original plot didn't feature anything even remotely resembling a love triangle. And I was perfectly fine with that! Why the writers decided they needed to insert one into the adaptation is beyond me. It can't have been for veterans of the game to enjoy, since it wasn't particulalry interesting, and we already knew who was going to emerge as the victor in the end (assuming that they didn't attempt some half-assed re-write of the outcome, which would have rendered this entire debacle completely unsalvageable).

The only reason I can conceive of as to why the decision was made to add it was because they felt the viewers who weren't fans of the game would need a little something extra to keep them tuning in every week. Because, it's not like there was anything interesting going on in the mean time. :roll: Nevermind the ongoing invasion of the Empire, the lore of the ancient Valkyrur and Alicia's inner struggle with her identity as a Valkyria, I need to find out who Alicia is going to hook up with in the end! [/sarcasm]

Not to mention that the triangle's inclusion ended up adding a whole new slew of angst for the characters to deal with, which leads me to...

>>> Derailment of Faldio's Motivations

Alicia's awakening as a Valkyria ended up being completely different between the two versions. In the game, Faldio's decision to shoot Alicia was carefully calculated and planned out. He knew that with Selvaria on the Empire's side, Gallia would have absolutely no chance of emerging victorious in the coming battle. That's why he decided he had to go to any lengths that he could in order to ensure Gallia's survival, even if it meant shooting the love of his oldest and dearest friend and exposing her as a Valkyria.

Meanwhile, Anime!Faldio's decision to shoot Alicia and set her loose on the battlefield was literally an act of madness. He had just witnessed his entire squad being wiped out in front of him, and in total desperation decided to shoot her (this being the woman that the writers decided he was in love with, by the way!) so that he could awaken her powers, giving Gallia a chance to scrape by with a victory. This interpretation, while certainly a lot more "DORAMATIC" than what played out in the game, isn't nearly as interesting. The former version establishes Faldio man who loves his country and is willing to go to any lengths in order to protect it based on his belief that the ends justify the means. Anime!Faldio, meanwhile, was little more than a desperate man who thought of a half-cocked scheme at the last second. A superior interpretation, this is not.

Oh, and his death in the anime was lame too.

>>> Cuts

This was to be expected, given that this was a limited-episode adaptation of a fairly lengthy video game, but the amount of events that ended up being cut out final arc is almost heartbreaking. Jaeger's role as a rival tank commander is reduced so much it's not even funny, and a particularly exciting sequence where Squad 7 diverts the Marmota into a minefield using landslides is cut as well. Not to mention the fact that the studio was so pressed for time that they ended up having to cut the game's epilogue completely, which borders on criminal.

At least we can assume that the staff was doing its very best to make sure that they included everything from the game that they possibly could by not wasting any time on less important things like shoe-horned love triangles.

OH, WAIT A MINUTE. :evil:

>>> Derailment of Alicia's Growth / Overuse of Valkyria powers

One of the major resolutions the game comes to before the climactic battle is that the destructive powers of the Valkyria should not be used in war to claim victory. So why is Anime!Alicia using them all the way up to the final confrontation?! Oh, wait, I know why -- it's because the writers stunted the perfect development of Welkin and Alicia's relationship by throwing them into an unnecessary love triangle, which made it so that he couldn't properly express himself to Alicia when she was outed as a Valkyria, rejected by her fellow squad-mates (wait, WHAT?!) and taken away from the militia by the army, leading to an extended slew of angst that lasted way longer than it had to and wasn't resolved until the second half of the final episode. By the time the two of them were reunited so that Welkin could profess his love for her, the series was already over. Way to even out the pacing there, guys.

This also leads back to my original point of the lack of squad involvement; several enemies from the game that Squad 7 had to defeat using tactics and teamwork (the Batomys, Selvaria, the Marmota and Maximilion) were all soundly defeated in the anime by spamming Alicia's Valkyria powers. Whereas the final mission in the game has Maximilion taking on the entirety of Squad 7 in an epic battle on top the deck of the Marmota using the artificial Valkyria system, the anime has him doing the same thing against Welkin and Alicia by themselves while the rest of the squad is busy fighting nameless soldiers below deck. How exciting. :?

>>> Soundtrack

At no point did the show ever make use of Succeeded Wish or any of its various arrangements. That is simply inexcusable.

So, yeah, I didn't particularly care for it. :P

The one bit of praise I can offer the show out of this whole mess is that it at least made some effort to develop side-characters that barely functioned as little more than playable NPCs (as oxymoronic as that sounds) in the game. Even so, both the manga and even the game's own DLC did a better job of achieving that.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Strike Zero wrote:
Not to mention the fact that the studio was so pressed for time that they ended up having to cut the game's epilogue completely, which borders on criminal.


To be fair they did release the epilouge as an OVA on the last DVD (all of the DVDs had short OVAs).

So yeah, I guess it boils down to "they changed it, now it sucks" :P

Personally I like it when adaptations take a different route. Makes things more interesting. If I wanted something exactly like the source material I'd just go to the source material.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:25 pm 
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I see, Strike. I think your descriptions have swayed me away from bothering to hunt down and watch the anime. It does sound quite bad given how much good stuff was in the game. I also hear they reduced Selvaria to more of a big boobed bimbo compared to the competent field general she was in the game.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Yeah, Selvaria felt a lot less developed and felt more like a fan service opportunity than a character with real depth, at least in comparison to the game.

The anime is, on its own, a decent and enjoyable show, but if you know the game, then it just won't compare.

I do however really like of the songs. Kanashimi Rensa was my favorite opening song, really love it.


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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:32 pm 
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Wingnut wrote:
I also hear they reduced Selvaria to more of a big boobed bimbo


I don't know where you heard that but I would deny it's validity. She is the world's biggest Maximillian fangirl, though.

I don't have a PS3 so it's not like I could play the game even if I wanted to. As it stands I enjoyed the anime and that's enough for me.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
So yeah, I guess it boils down to "they changed it, now it sucks" :P

Partially, but that quote/trope implies that the mere act of changing is what gets the panties of fans like me in a bunch. When the changes that get made actually work to depreciate the overall story is when problems arise. :)

Case in point: a kind of change I would like to have seen made would be to further expand the roles of the members of Squad 7 so that they'd become more involved in the main story.

And no, making it so that they suddenly decide that
Spoiler: show
Alicia, whom they've fought alongside with for God knows how many months is no longer to be trusted just because they found out that she's a descendant of the Valkyrur
isn't a good example. :P

Wingnut wrote:
I also hear they reduced Selvaria to more of a big boobed bimbo compared to the competent field general she was in the game.

Mmm... I wouldn't quite go that far. Though they did really go the extra length to drive home the fact that she was completely enamored with Maximilion.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Also, this.

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Yahtzee wrote:
"Muddy menu-driven micromanagement mother****ery"

Ah, I will never get tired of that quote. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:42 am 
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Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Also, this.


Thanks for that it was hilareous. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:47 am 
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Wow no kidding that was quote long, I can tell you are passionate about this game.
While as said I have not played the game. I would like to say that I felt that the anime had a really cool squad based feel. Like when half the team would split, or the first ep with the team. It did not last the whole time but at least it did not pull an 08th ms team and almost drop it.

Also do we have a confirmed
Spoiler: show
Fladio died in the anime?


About the epilogue thanks for not spoiling it. That is going to be one of my main reasons for playing the game soon. After hearing you mention how the struggle with the
Spoiler: show
Alicia valkeria between welkien makes me excited.
Love triangles do motivate to keep watching but you nailed the tail on the donkey and said that they can prevent proper relational development.
Spoiler: show
After Fladio confessed I felt that Welkien and Alecias growth together came to a halt.

But I can not deny that I loved it!

To wingnut don’t give up on the show. You might not like the triangle it is a good alternative maybe, but then again it does make me interested in the game. Love triangles drive me bonkers but it did motivate me to finish the show in a night to see how things ended.

I do agree that the anime portrays selvaria as almost baddy of the week so I am interested to see more about her in the game.
About that as well I noticed that Eddy has two dlc while she barely had more that 3 lines in the show so I am interested in more about her.

Also StrikeZero that song is very touching and after reading the coments in the video this might be top 5 ps3 exclusives which makes me even more excited to play it. It is weird though because I really did not like the gameplay of the demo, same with metal gear. I did not like the gameplay, but the story will motivate me to play it. Maybe it will be like metal gear and the gameplay will grow on me and I will like it even more.

Why did I discover this right when Uncharted 3 is coming out!!!!!

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:59 am 
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If you're interested in really seeing Selvaria at her best, you should get her DLC pack as well and play through it. I don't recall how difficult it was, but it was far and away worth paying for it. It serves as a sort of prequel from her point of view, and gives us a little background information on one of the enemy aces you casually gun down in the game.

Really, as far as I know, all the DLC for VC1 is well worth purchasing.


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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:21 am 
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APendragon wrote:
If you're interested in really seeing Selvaria at her best, you should get her DLC pack as well and play through it. I don't recall how difficult it was, but it was far and away worth paying for it. It serves as a sort of prequel from her point of view, and gives us a little background information on one of the enemy aces you casually gun down in the game.

Really, as far as I know, all the DLC for VC1 is well worth purchasing.

She's also utterly broken in said DLC. She's classified as a scout with the appropriate AP and all, but she has double the HP of your endgame upgraded characters in normal play, a more powerful weapon then your best stormtrooper's gun (The Ruhm which is more or less an MG 42.), and as a result there's virtually nothing to stop her (not even tanks!) unless you're a fricking idiot and waltz into a metric ton of enemy gunfire. She however lacks any blue glowy healing canisters or grenades. That's what the engineer Johann is for. Fortunately he doesn't lag too far behind Selvaria in movement so he can keep up with her swath of destruction. Any other Imps you have in the mission are window dressing at best to keep your base camp from getting taken over.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:56 am 
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I watched this, never played the game though. I though it was enjoyable (interesting and well developed world setting and enjoyable characters) but the ending felt very meh.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:31 am 
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Sume Gai wrote:
I watched this, never played the game though. I though it was enjoyable (interesting and well developed world setting and enjoyable characters) but the ending felt very meh.


I thought so too about the ending until I found the epilouge ova fron destimygundam. At least it sums up weilkeins and alcias side of the story.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:16 am 
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Wingnut wrote:
She's also utterly broken in said DLC.


and then the part where she is in Valkyur mode. oh boy.

then again that DLC is a wish fulfillment. "i wish she is in my squad instead!". im sure everybody has say this once at least in their head when she shows up in the main game. at least those weapon and stats is carried from when we fight her as a boss. that Ruhm is not funny when it is pointed at you.

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