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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:31 pm 
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I don't know if this has been discussed already but one thing really bothers me about Frontier and I want to know if anyone else feels the same way. You see in Frontier the Raja are evil bugs that have KILLED COUNTLESS amounts of people. Sometimes they where provoked, sometimes they where trying to rescue ranka, sometimes they where just passing through and wanted to make a ship their new nest so they just kill everyone. Their bugs. Well what is up with the end of Frontier and the movies where all of a sudden these bugs are not bad the whole time? In the movie they where like just take the transmitters off so they will be good...Oh no they will still kill you because they are evil bugs. I don't know this whole thing really bothered me about that series and felt like if they where going to make these things good they did not do a good job making them look like they deserve it. As Ricko's Rough Necks from starship troopers says "The only good bug is a DEAD bug

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:08 am 
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Because there's no concept of evil in nature, it is purely a human concept. The Vajra just did what they did to protect and propogate their species. They're no more evil than your typical wild animal, the difference of course being that the Vajra are intelligent enough to learn that they can deal with humans in ways other than attacking them. That only happened after much effort, though.

Funny that you choose to single out the Vajra on this when humanity is coexisting when the Zentradi despite the latter race wiping out most of Earth's population.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:41 am 
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I don't understand the point of posting this question on another forum. Do you expect a different answer? Just because they're bugs automatically makes them ineligible to live? Humans killed their eggs so they can't retaliate? Frontier is about understanding and communication, a problem that Humans and the Vajra had with each other until the end. The same theme is found in Gundam 00. The ELS and Humans had a misunderstanding. ELS reacted to individuals with quantum brainwaves so they assimilated humans to understand humans. Do you consider ELS bad just because they didn't understand humans? The same can be considered of the Vajra. If you kill a bee and the bee hive retaliates, does that automatically make the bees evil?

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:03 am 
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azrael wrote:
Do you expect a different answer?


You caught me. I think the broad range of answers from you guys and those guys helps me understand the vajra and what macross was trying to say more. thanks for the help.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:21 am 
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Yeah quite often it seems that humans are quick to attribute evil or conscious malice to natural events ("the killer tsunami", while factually true in the sense the tsunami kills people, does not mean that it's stalking the oceans, waiting for an unsuspecting coastline to pounce). If a tiger attacks the tiger-tamer, the tiger doesn't go crazy, the tiger goes tiger (yes, ripped from Chris Rock, I know).

Of course that still leaves open the issue that can a species like the Vajra consciously coexist with humanity (and vice versa!)? Macross tries to give the "we can all get along" -aspect of it, which is up to us cynics to ruin. :mrgreen:

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:12 pm 
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NastyNate wrote:
azrael wrote:
Do you expect a different answer?

You caught me. I think the broad range of answers from you guys and those guys helps me understand the vajra and what macross was trying to say more. thanks for the help.

Maybe you should rewatch the show as these are things you might pick up on. Perhaps you should watch some PBS shows on wildlife and animal behavior (not those entertainment shows on cable) and you might find out animals do think and have brains.

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:49 pm 
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The whole thing to me was incredibly Ender's Game-y. Basically humankind encounters an intelligent hive mind race that beings to attack them, only to realize that it's a cultural (or maybe it's a more fundamental difference) misunderstanding. Since the insect race has no concept of individuality the killing of a few (tens/hundreds/maybe thousands of) individuals isn't as big deal to them and the whole "war" was started by humans misunderstanding what was essentially a crazier version of one dog sniffing each other dog's butt.

In the end once they learn of their mistakes, and since they're obviously an advanced race for being able to develop space exploration and what not it is likely that the WILL understand why what the did was wrong, they will change their ways.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:20 pm 
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The Vajra could not understand humans, who possess individuality, because they have a hive mentallity. After encountering Ranka, they often lashed out against humans to save her because they fought that she was in danger. Once they gained a better understanding of humans, there was no more need for the violence.


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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:09 am 
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True, but that "misunderstanding" ended up killing a considerable number of people who, and whose loved ones, do have concept of individuality (i.e. they feel the individual loss quite poignantly). We simply assume the Varja would not. Against a history like that, a happy end isn't the default outcome.

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