Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed Destiny!

[Dark Duel]

LOGOS's conspiracy would marginally work and be marginally acceptable right up until "Break the World", at which point they should be defecating rectangular prisms of crimson concrete.

Nice euphemism. I'm still ROFLing
That said, you do bring up an interesting point - as interesting a concept as LOGOS - the shady, manipulative cabal with absurdly high resources and run by a genocidal maniac (it's been done before, and quite well - Clive Cussler did it a few times in his books) - is, the sheer scale of it does seem to almost defy logic.

Not only that, but I'd have to agree that a cold war-type scenario would be in the best interest of such a group given that they are a military-industrial complex. Then again, if their ultimate goal, like that of their previous leader, remains the genocide of Coordinators, I'm sure they've made plans to make sure that even if they don't continue to line their pockets in a real shooting war, they don't go broke.

[LightningCount]

11-20 responses:

At times we still see the same old fiery tomcat Cagalli from SEED, but so much now, I don't recognize her anymore. Especially after Athrun gave her that ring, since he left she's just not herself anymore.

I thought Cagalli was all right, but she wasn't my favorite character from SEED by any means. I wasn't heartbroken, but I wasn't thrilled with her portrayal in Destiny. This back-and-forth with her character does make sense up to a point now that you and others discuss it, but it gets trying in the way its executed and exaggerated, especially with certain things to come...(Oh, but for what it's worth, Kisaka did tell Cagalli there's "no crying in war" in SEED Season 1 IIRC, which she did have a bit of a problem with even then).

Orb closes the gap, warning Minerva not to re-enter their territory (though the commander of the Orb fleet is actually a good guy, as we'll see again later on), firing his "warning shots" between the Minerva and the attacking Earth Force ships. (Hehehehe... ) I thought this battle was pretty spectacular...Shinn goes NUTS! He takes out the Zamza-Zah in quick order following what seems to be his first seed-burst moment, then goes crazy with the Impulse Sword, literally slicing the Alliance surface ships apart! I loved this battle.

This captain, IIRC, is the one who helped Shinn in the flashback of episode 1. Good guy. The battle is amazing and interesting in its development, and shows some use for the Impulse's eccentricities. Sword Impulse is an awesome design. And SEED mode for Shinn!

However, their plans get changed for them when what appears to be a ZAFT assassination squad (or rather, an assassination squad equipped with brand-new aquatic ASSH mobile suits) shows up and tries to kill Lacus Clyne at the coastal house where the group is staying.

This was a neat scene, and probably one of the best moments for the original SEED crew in Destiny (as strange as that might sound). There is a famous animation error with the ASSH mobile suits losing and regaining limbs in some shots that I heard was fixed in the compilation movies. But I didn't notice or really care.

What is surprising, however, is that they all don Orb military uniforms. If they're striking out on their own - and certainly not approving of the path Orb is taking, with the prime minister and his sleazy son Yuna allying with the Alliance and dragging them into this war against Cagalli's wishes... why wear the Orb uniform

I think this is twofold. One, they don't want the viewers or world to think they're with the Alliance. Two, they believe they represent the true ideals of Orb, a force for peace.

Kira crashes the wedding in the Freedom Gundam! There's something I thought I'd never see in a Gundam show! I was laughing and grinning from ear to ear as Kira picked up Cagalli in her wedding dress and flew off with her! And Yuna's left bawling - oh boo freakin' hoo.

Oh, boy. Yes, it was different and sort of neat--and maybe fitting of SEED's off-kilter tones at times--but this scene, in retrospect, was one of the first hints of Kira and crew working too hard to regain the limelight, IMO. (PS: Yuna is sort of an annoying character).

So yeah, I can understand why [Athrun's] feeling lost again, and that he still doesn't have the answer he's looking for.

Yeah, I never had much of a problem with most of what Athrun goes through in Destiny. He fits very well into the flow of the tale, and it contrasts Kira's lead role from SEED. There are other past characters that are far more concerning/distracting...

Wow... is Phantom Pain that well-known to have that scary of a reputation?

Good question. They're like black ops, and are known to be ruthless and independent, so some people probably have some idea it's not wise to stick around them. (You get to see more of Phantom Pain's troops in Stargazer, which, taking place between various points of Destiny's plot, has spoilers for Destiny wrapped into it).

I kinda like the Minerva's XO, Arthur. He's competent but young, and seems almost on the verge of panic sometimes. He's rather amusing.

Yep. I liked Arthur, too. Amusing, but capable. A nice contrast on the bridge. Likewise, Talia is an appealing captain.

*SIDE NOTE to Chris and others about red uniforms piloting MS out of the Academy (since forum quoting function has its page limits): It's a stretch, yes. (Though not all that much in Gundam/anime terms). However, not only does this connect to the Coordinator abilities people have talked about, but also that ZAFT is considered a militia of the PLANTS and their Zodiac Alliance. Thus, the Academy would be considered very skilled compared to volunteers in many cases, and given more responsibilities. And this may especially be so after the losses of the first Bloody Valentine War.

During this fight, Shinn discovers the Alliance base, and the civilian slave laborers...Shinn goes nuts with righteous anger, and frankly I can't blame him - he may be a hurting, angry animal in some parts of his personality, but the one thing he won't abide by is civilians being used and harm in other peoples' conflicts. He kills lots of soldiers and their equipment, and tears up the fences freeing the civilians. Go Shinn!..
After the battle, though, Athrun gives Shinn his first Brightslapping, telling him to be more responsible with his power and stop trying to play hero...It's an important lesson, I just hope Shinn takes it to heart and learns to cool his attitude soon. Frankly, other than his rescue of the civilian slave laborers, I haven't had much reason at all to like Shinn. I understand him, but he's far from likeable. Totally opposite of how I feel about Kira Yamato.

Hmm. You know, Kira is likable in a normal way up to a point (much more so than a lot of the accidental pilots in Gundam lore). However, his self-righteous attitude in Destiny (that you should be seeing brewing), always thinking he's right, really gets on the nerves, especially at the cost (right or wrong) of other characters' legitimacy/time/development in the story. Kira means well, and is admirable...but...I don't know. The thing about Shinn is he seems more fallible and thus human, which I kind of like about his character. This battle was indeed a memorable one with interesting developments. I have to say, I'm not in the "Brightslapping" camp--I always found that plot device to be jarring and a little silly or base, personally. But about Shinn "cooling," after seeing this slave labor business and other horrors, and that relating to his own past's horrors, it's not easy to cool down for this teen soldier who wants to do right with the same level of idealism as Kira, but not fully or rationally caring about the "costs" to do what he feels is right. After all, to him, the "flowers will just be blown away," so he has to strike first. It's an interesting character study separate from Athrun and Kira that gives this series a different angle. IE: what if the so-called lead Gundam pilot isn't heroic in the traditional sense?

Anyway, this was a very visually revealing battle about the horrifying byproducts of war. It put some additional gravity into the series.

The Minerva arrives at ZAFT's Mahamul base for a stopover and prep for a mission to take out an Earth Forces' Lohengrin emplacement in a valley/ravine that's preventing ZAFT from moving through the Suez region...It's a strange and surreal scene as Shinn's Impulse and Athrun's Savior land in the town and are greeted by the cheering, happy locals.... while just a few yards away, Earth Forces' soldiers, captured by the local resistance, are executed. Shinn looks very happy... while Athrun looks troubled. Very surreal...

Talk about a great, creative battle and nice writing. This is a highlight of Destiny (and it was largely cut from the compilation movies I've heard). The synergy and differences between Athrun and Shinn show up in that last scene. But that crazy new mobile armor, and Shinn's pig-sticker knife/toss-down-the-hole attack was genius! Not to mention we get another example of how the modular system of the Impulse comes in handy (and Shinn is criticizing the plan all the while, realizing how crazy it is and how much faith has been put in him--Athrun and others knew his intensity and devil-may-care attitude would be to their advantage here!).

I also just remembered a line from an earlier episode saying that Gilbert Durandel is a DNA analyst....

To my memory, for what it's worth, I think he essentially has a physician's background--though he could be considered a scientist as well. Anyway, he is interested in the science and theory behind genetics. The doctor background does have real life parallels of doctors becoming politicians, though. As you said before, he is cut from a different cloth than Patrick Zala or even Sigil Clyne.

Shortly after, the other MS pilots from the Minerva also arrive to have dinner with Durandel...The group gets into a frank discussion of the war, Shinn's desire to protect non-combatants, Athrun's merry-go-round problem with not understanding why people keep fighting, and so on. Durandel takes the conversation in a direction that seems to surprise everyone, talking about one of the root causes of war...

I love this dinner scene, with the Gouf Ignited in the background (orange looks good!) and a new pilot semi-introduced (I think you'll like him). Foolproof or not, these discussions about politics and philosophy are a highlight of Destiny! I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes this stuff in my Gundam. Some people over the years have seemed to abhor it and think of it as padding. I think it gives some substance and re-playability to the story, especially given that the Gundam universe are war stories, and there are many factors to war. The connections between Durandel and the crew of the Minerva, especially Rey, are intriguing to say the least. Stay tuned!

*ALSO: About the Durandal order for ZAFT to be self-defense forces in the Eurasian region. Remember that he said he wanted the Minerva to be the Archangel of this conflict. The Archangel intervened where it wanted to, independent of the complexities of the war, especially in the Three Ships Alliance. So, what the Minerva is doing, while interventionist, is heroic by SEED Season 1 standards. That's my read on it.

Now, the next set of episodes, to my memory, have both memorable, intriguing moments that keep the series on track, and painful moments that start to hurt the series a little more (largely or wholly inflicted by the old cast, IIRC).

[domino]

It's pretty much the RA-78-2's and Strike's illegitimate love-child. In its overall performance it's officially listed as being the Strike's equal. (The Core Fighter/Splendor being its primary functional difference). It's definitely not original, though, but it's a functional design and the Sword Impulse coloration is pretty spiffy.

Where does it say that the Impulse and the Strike are equal in performance? Does that even make sense? Impulse had vastly more firepower than the Strike did with its weapons packs and was able to keep up with the Freedom in terms of mobility.

I'll agree that the Impulse was a copy but even Dullindal admitted that ZAFT copied the Strike on purpose.

[Zeonista]

Arbiter Gundam: If the TV trope fits.... labeling aside, it seemed apt after watching musical ability take a more or less permanent back seat to striptease antics, starting with Britney Spears' "Satisfaction" routine and headed forward to today. It was admittedly a good floor show, so I put it down to changing times, and gave Athrun a thumbs-up for not buying it.

About the miniskirt issue, well, the original Star Trek had its female actors reject slacks in favor of something they liked, so Roddenberry in his wisdom let the minis ride. Speaking of which, the IDF permitted minidresses for their female soldiers in 1967, so the idea of a military force going to war with such a condition has been done. In fact, a random search of female soldiers around the world show you some uniform choices that were definitely outside the bounds of the U.S. military requirements.

Harotype: You know, I completely missed the ahoge tag the first time around. (facepalm) The staff even telegraphed their intentions from the beginning... That irritates me some, since the wink-nudge treatment of Lunamaria really undercut her supposed role as an elite pilot worthy of a billet on ZAFT's new top-of-the-line cruiser. At times the story shows Luna as a competent if unlucky pilot, but she never really gets her time in the spotlight, and often gets relegated to "the girl" slot. Which I thought was a real lack of respect.

Jaynz: Given what you said bout LOGOS, I think the production of said red rectangles is ging on enough for them to build a second meeting house. They are not at all opposed to Djibril's strategy, but I amsure they would like it if he didn't seem bent on advancing the schedule, instead of creating a five-year plan or ten-year plan designed to get EA a rematch on their terms. That's the problem with fanatics, no sense of timetable.

I'm back, with my review and comments for Episodes 16 thru 20!

This is about the high point of the series for me, going great guns. There were some odd things, but they were events that could all be explained in season 2, if not soon.

In a surprising bold move, the Earth Alliance military is building a new base very close to ZAFT's Carpentaria base. They're also using civilian slave labor.

This sort of enforced labor by unwilling locals to spare the actual warriors the effort is very old history. Apparently the Blue Cosmos was a bit behind in getting their volunteer brigades organized. ZAFT does llok better in comparison, but they also have a motive to prove good intentions to the locals, and make sure that the Blue Cosmos agitprop is invalidated.

So Neo Roanoke launches an attack on the Minerva and its escort submarine when they leave Carpentaria, leading the attack in his custom-colored Windham flight-equipped MS.

This is a good battle, very lively, and it shows the three Extends as capable opponents who have mastered their new Gundams. However, it also reminds me of the many times I wondered why Lunamaria got stuck with the Orthuss pack, even when it was not an advantage in the fight. Having her use a Blaze or Slash pack would have given her more of a role in the fight, besides being an extra turret for Minerva.

After the battle, though, Athrun gives Shinn his first Brightslapping, telling him to be more responsible with his power and stop trying to play hero. I'm not sure I agree with Athrun's reaction to what Shinn did... but I'm not sure I disagree, either...

Shinn deserved the rebuke, since he left the others alone to chase after Gaia, and then trash the base. He did good, but what if his absence had resulted in Neo's team gaining an advantage and damaging Minerva? What if another of those mobile armors had been at the base?

Athrun later has a nice chat with Shinn after the Minerva gets to Mahamul Base. The two seem to at least lay their cards on the table with each other, Athrun clearly becoming a mentor to Shinn, and warning him that his own actions cause pain to others, just as others have hurt him.

The fork in the road is coming up for Shinn. He can master his anger and hate, and fight to put a fair end to the war. Or he can give in to the Dark Side and run amok, until he in turn is accused of being a destroyer. This scene was my favorite with Athrun in the entire GSD anime. He actually sounds like a veteran here, and his warning to Shinn about the blindness of acting in hate strikes a chord with Shinn due to its sincerity. If only we could have more of it!

There's no news from the PLANTs, just coverage of a return concert of "Lacus Clyne" - the imposter Meer Campbell.

Lacus's politely cool response indicates how much she doesn't approve. Kira's more heated response shows his indignation at what's being perpetrated as his girl! Durandel wins no points here. For his part, Athrun plays the officer and gentleman quite nicely. Alas, we received no Yzak team reaction, although admittedly any entertainment would have been at Dearka's expense.

It's a strange and surreal scene as Shinn's Impulse and Athrun's Savior land in the town and are greeted by the cheering, happy locals.... while just a few yards away, Earth Forces' soldiers, captured by the local resistance, are executed. Shinn looks very happy... while Athrun looks troubled.

Athrun has reason to be troubled, since such bloody vengeance undercuts the chances for peaceful surrender. Enemies who willingly surrender and are taken into custody don't have to be blown up in their last stand positions, ne? That being said, given how the Eurasian Alliance's troops are supposed to be acting in suppressing the uprisings, it may be a well-deserved summary justice. Still, for a former member of TSA, Athrun ought to worry if he is helping the war to expand, instead of contract. SHinn can be forgiven a little jubilation here, given his destruction of the Lohengrins of Navarone. I don't recall him actually being happy about the executions.

After that, the Minerva makes it to another ZAFT base on the Black Sea coast called Diocuia, at the same time that Chairman Durandel and "Lacus Clyne" aka Meer Campbell arrive for a USO-type concert for the ZAFT troops.

Meer may be a faux-Lacus, but she is good at what she does!

Athrun is shocked and appalled

As were we all, by that color scheme!

I have to wonder. Is Rey a Rau clone, concocted by or somehow connected to Durandel? Hmm...

Get back to us on that later.

Durandel takes the conversation in a direction that seems to surprise everyone, talking about one of the root causes of war, not just the current one, but most wars: monetary profit. The constant cycle of using and destroying and replacing and upgrading war machinery, and the desire for weapon manufacturers to spark off wars if one isn't going, just so they can make money.

I've heard this line a lot in my life, both before and after the Cold War ended. And it's really not true. Making personal computers, sports cars, and cheeseburgers will earn far more in profit than making weaponry. Upswings in weapons manufacture are economically bad news, because they reflect a level of worry that said weapons could be taken out and used, sometime in the near future. And modern mechanized warfare is an economic loser on the national level, especially when military production replaces goods for the civilian market. (There is also always a risk that the enemy will strike at the industrial base, offsetting any profits with damage that must be repaired and worker casualties that must be replaced.) The only real way to make war profitable for all parties is to recoup the losses from the enemy, in plunder and tribute, or by forcibly adding them to the winner's economy a la Rome. having logged my disagreement, I will now agree with LIghtningCount that Gundam has in-show discussions about things that matter in life beyond the scope of winning the hig game, winning the heart of the uptown girl in one's high school class, or defeating the mysterious tentacled invaders from Dimension X.

Durandel mentions the shady new world order elitist group Logos, and that he thinks they're behind the war. And he wants to do something about it, or the wars between Earth and the PLANTs will never end. Considering Muruta Azrael was the head of some arms manufacturing conglomerate, and he's the one who arranged for the nuking of Junius 7... well, Blue Cosmos and its Logos puppet-masters may have started the war for their own twisted ideological purposes, but hey, why not make some cash at the same time? Ugh...

Class-warfare agitprop aside, Durandel is correct. As long as LOGOS is in control, they will rebuild another alliance to arm itself and strike at the PLANTs, or whatever new refuge Coordinators find. And with generations of Blue Cosmos being raised on the new version of Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the reflexive fear and hate of Coordinators will never go away. Durandel means to go for total victory, and destroy the problem at its point of origin. This of course will massively escalate the war, since LOGOS will definitely fight to the last OMNI soldier to defend themselves.

After their meal, the group is going their separate ways when Meer Campbell shows up, throwing herself at Athrun in her bubbly, super-happy, typically excited way.

So much for the efforts of the sisters Hawke to get his attention. That's right girls, he has an official fiancee who likes him, and she beats you in every category.

After this, Durandel privately asks Athrun if he knows where the Archangel and the real Lacus Clyne are. Athrun doesn't know, and he asks the same of Durandel, and they agree to share any information if they find out anything. Durandel says he'd like for the real Lacus to come home to the PLANTs. Does he...? Hmm... my spidey sense is tingling.

Given what has already occurred, you have every right to be suspicious. Chairman Durandel has gotten his perfect war-winning strategy worked out, and he probably doesn't want it undone by a shipload of inconvenient idealists calling time out again.

Episode 20 is just a recap episode, narrated from Shinn's point of view, with a bit of new footage of him and his family added in. Nothing much to talk about on this one, really.

Biggest waste of time in the anime so far. Not only was it a recap, but it was a Shinn-only recap. That was annoying, considering everything else going on, and it didn't even end with a meaningful character point.

[Jaynz]

Where does it say that the Impulse and the Strike are equal in performance? Does that even make sense? Impulse had vastly more firepower than the Strike did with its weapons packs and was able to keep up with the Freedom in terms of mobility.

Never take an opinion on something in Gundam as a personal slight. When I looked over the stats to model the two suits for Mekton, I found them REMARKABLY similar. The Impulse has more CP behind it due to the Core Splendor, but the loads come up similar. The Blast Impulse has an advantage over the Launcher Strike in that it can do the Macross Missile Massacre, but the Launcher Strike is a more-rounded assault pack.

It really comes down to six one way, half-dozen the other.

I'll agree that the Impulse was a copy but even Dullindal admitted that ZAFT copied the Strike on purpose.

And that's fine. I don't dislike the Impulse, and I think the Sword Impulse is pretty striking in apperance (and far superior in looks to the Sword Strike). But while some people are saying it's not original, I'm not disagreeing. But I'll point out that a lot of the suits in DESTINY were deliberately not original. The Impulse is one of them.

Spoiler

As for the fight between the Freedom and the Impulse, remember both that the entire fight was rigged specifically against the Freedom (with days of preparation for that moment), and Kira was heavily distracted both by the plight of the Archangel and his own attempts to avoid killing Shinn. Ahtrun explicitly points this out to Shin after all...

[Dark Duel]

MOST of the suits in Destiny suffer from a clear lack of originality in design. It's one of the things that annoyed me a bit about the series, even though I liked them for the most part.

Impulse had vastly more firepower than the Strike did with its weapons packs and was able to keep up with the Freedom in terms of mobility.

I really think you're exaggerating the firepower advantage of the Impulse over the Strike. Force Impulse and Aile Strike are exactly equal in firepower. Base Impulse does have the shield and beam rifle, and Sword Impulse has a few more weapons overall than Sword Strike. However I'd hardly call those "vastly" superior.

The only configuration that I would say DOES undeniably have "vastly" greater firepower than its predecessor is the Blast Impulse, which has two heavy beam cannons and two railguns, two four-tube missile launchers, plus two beam javelins for melee combat and a shield, as well as a whole mess of additional thrusters; by contrast the Launcher Strike had only one beam cannon and the shoulder unit with a gatling gun and two little dinky guns, lacked a shield, additional melee weapons, or extra thrusters.
Overall, Blast is by far the greatest improvement over its preceding Striker Pack, as it has the firepower and mobility to give the Freedom a run for its money, whereas Launcher Striker could barely keep up with BuCUEs.

Personally I prefer the Silhouette Packs of the Impulse overall, but I definitely liked the design of the Strike better.

[Jaynz]

I really think you're exaggerating the firepower advantage of the Impulse over the Strike. Force Impulse and Aile Strike are exactly equal in firepower. Base Impulse does have the shield and beam rifle, and Sword Impulse has a few more weapons overall than Sword Strike. However I'd hardly call those "vastly" superior.

The Strike itself is supposed to have a beam rifle and shield as part of its default armament. The only reason it doesn't at first is due to how Kira acquires the Gundam. Shinn, by contrast, has his Impulse fully equipped and supported from the word 'go'. (This would mean that both pieces should be available for the Launcher Strike as well, but see above.)

Personally I prefer the Silhouette Packs of the Impulse overall, but I definitely liked the design of the Strike better.

Astray Out Frame must make you really happy then?

[Burke Rukes]

And I'm back with my reviews and comments for Episodes 21 thru 25.

Athrun wakes up in his room at the whichever-ZAFT-base-Minerva-is-at-this-week base... with Meer in bed with him. My exact words were, "Oh NO f**kin' way!" Then Lunamaria Hawke knocks on the door. Much teenage deer-in-headlights awkwardness ensues for Athrun, followed by annoyance and frustration. Meer wants to live the "full" lifestyle of her idol Lacus Clyne, and that includes being all romantic with Athrun, but he's not having that. And Lumamaria being all jealous and obsessive with Athrun, and he reacts to her as if what he does with any other girls is any of her business... you've really got your hands full, Athrun. But I'll get back to you later in this post, kid. *gives Athrun a scolding look*

So the new ZAFT/FAITH member mystery pilot with the golden hair is Heine Westenfluss, who's also been assigned to the Minerva with his nifty looking GOUF Ignited. Talia wonders what Durandel's up to, putting yet another FAITH member on her ship. Heine, for his part, is very friendly and outgoing, trying to get his new teammates to loosen up, and it even rubs off on Athrun a bit, who's really gotten a stick up his posterior... oh wait, I was going to get back to Athrun later. *gives Athrun another scolding look* I want to like Heine, but I feel like he's really just a watchdog for Durandel for some mysterious purpose.

Meanwhile, Stella is on a rocky beach somewhere, dancing in her absent-minded way, laughing and enjoying the sight of the ocean, which seems to be a regular thing for her. Shinn Asuka happens to be nearby, out for some R&R and sees her fall off a cliff into the water. She can't swim, so he jumps in and rescues her, telling her she's not going to die. The "die" word triggers her mind control and she totally freaks out, until he uses the word again (not realizing what he's doing) and she calms down. However, they're stuck in a spot they can't climb out of, and with Stella unable to swim, Shinn activates a rescue beacon. They have some bonding, Stella clearly displaying her mental trauma and amnesia with her answers to Shinn's questions, not knowing what "Father" and "Mother" means. Shinn has really taken to Stella, and he promises to protect her. I'm soooooo getting a Four Murasame/Rosamia Baddam vibe from this girl - the mentally broken orphan girl, manipulated and turned into a war machine by the big, bad, evil military, and our "hero" (sorry, I still can't think of Shinn as a central hero in this series yet, despite a couple of heroic acts recently) is falling for her in a way. Howver, I've noticed that after this point, when he or anyone else says the word "die" around Stella... she doesn't freak out anymore. She also gives Shinn a seashell as a personal momento. Awwww how sweet! And her meeting Shinn has other effects on her personality/programming as well...

Athrun shows up with a rescue boat to pick up Shinn and Stella, and back ashore they drive back to the docks/base in a ZAFT jeep. En route they meet Auel and Sting, and Stella rejoins her "brothers," but is sad and upset that Shinn isn't going with her, since he promised to protect her. Shinn says they'll meet again, somewhere, somehow. I'm.... slowly starting to like Shinn more. He's still an angry jerk more often than not, but his interactions with Stella show that, like he did with his sister before she was killed, Shinn has a good heart, deep down somewhere inside his anger and pain.

Djibril is chewing out the Atlantic Federation president for not doing enough to put down the various rebellions around the world and be more aggressive against ZAFT/PLANTs. The President points out that Phantom Pain is under Djibril's control, and that he should let them handle it. Djibril decides to also drag the Orb military (now obligated as part of the new world treaty alliance) into the conflict and have them help with wiping out the ZAFT forces supporting the local rebels in the Black Sea area. The orders are passed through channels, and Yuna is more than happy to order his military into the fray, much to the chagrin of the Orb military officers.

On the John Paul Jones, the naval flagship of the Earth Forces' task force rallying to invade the Black Sea, the Phantom Pain Gundam pilot trio are back, resting up in their energy/regeneration/brainwashing tanks to prepare for the coming battle. Stella is hysterical when the doctors try to take a handkerchief Shinn used to bandage her injured ankle when she fell in the water. Neo Roanoke talks about the trio's lack of memories, how they only need to do their jobs and defeat the enemy. Stella is afraid of death, and in order to not die, she has to defeat the enemy, period. Neo's comment, "Are we happier with memories, or are we happier without them? I think about that from time to time," gives me pause... I very much suspect he's a clone of Mu La Flaga (and not the real deal) with a different programmed personality and memories. As this batch of episodes proceed, my curiosity about him and Rey Za Burrell grows. And Stella wakes up later, not knowing what this strange handkerchief she has is...

The Orb fleet arrives and joins up with their Earth Forces' allies, with Yuna on board barking orders and making a clown of himself. He's such a wimp. Barfing at sea, sleeping in ridiculous looking pajamas while hugging a giant pillow, and so on. I don't know whether to despise this guy or laugh at him. That cool Orb admiral/captain/whatever is back, clearly not liking what they're doing and what's happening to their nation, but he's putting hopes that Cagalli and the Archangel will come through for them. Good for you, whatever your name is!

And there's Miriella again! She's at the Suez canal area, shooting photos as part of her investigative photojournalist gig, but I also suspect she's part of an intelligence/resistance movement, too.

The Minerva sets sail to face the invading Earth Forces' fleet trying to retake the Black Sea. Athrun is shocked to hear that part of the fleet belongs to Orb. Prior to the battle, Athrun and Heine have a nice talk, bonding and discussing both their desires not to have to fight anyone, no matter what nation they're from. But they both accept that they're soldiers in a war, and they have to fight or die. *sigh* Athrun, Athrun, Athrun.... I'm still getting back to you later. *gives Athrun another scolding look*

Neo orders the Orb fleet to take point and lure the Minerva out and into Neo's regular Earth Forces' fleet. Yune is far too eager to please his new allies. "That'll be very pretty," he says of the coming battle. The Orb captain/admiral/whatever and his officers are -not- happy.

Captain Talia Galdys orders the Minerva to launch its mobile suits and go into battle. The fighting's getting started, and she orders Minerva's Tannhauser BFG to fire at the Orb fleet. It's about to discharge when suddenly it's shot through and blown up by a beam rifle blast... coming from Kira's Freedom Gundam! The Archangel also shows up, clearly intent on intervening in and stopping this battle before it becomes a bloodbath. Cagalli takes off in her Strike Rouge, announcing herself to everyone and ordering the Orb forces to stop fighting and go home. Kira doesn't think Cagalli could've stopped this if she were still home in Orb or not, but Lacus is sympathetic to Cagalli, saying that Cagalli's heart is clearly seeing things now that she couldn't have in her situation back at Onogoro. Cagalli is holding fast to both her own and her father's ideals - to not only keep Orb out of any fighting, but to put a stop to anyone else fighting, as well.

The Orb forces hesitate, and Neo demands an explanation from Yuna, why she's out here and ordering the Orb fleet to stop, warning that things will get nasty for them if they don't fight. Meaning, of course, that the Earth Forces will shoot any "allies" in the back who hesitate to fight on their behalf. Hey, they enslave and murder CIVILIANS with no hesitation, what's a few more soldiers on top of that? Sheez... Yuna freaks out, trying to make excuses, saying it's not Cagalli's voice. The cool admiral/captain/whatever doesn't believe it... but he orders his ships to fire... and crosses his fingers that the Freedom will save the day. It does, 'cause it's that awesome and Kira's that good.

The Earth Forces then launch their own attack on the Minerva, and things get crazy. Heine is out there in his GOUF Ignited, having a fight with Stella's Gaia Gundam that has a lot of grin-inducing homages to Ramba Ral's Gouf fighting with Amuro Ray's Gundam from the original series. Yuna orders the Orb forces to resume their attack on the Minerva to save face with their allies, as well as to attack the Archangel, too, the "source of their nation's confusion."

And Cagalli... poor Cagalli... has an emotional breakdown, frozen in battle as things go horribly, horribly wrong all around her and there's nothing she can do to stop it. A speech of her father's (that we saw in the Shinn-narrated recap episode) is remembered/played over the battle, Lord Uzumi's words of warning about what would happen if Orb went down the path of taking sides coming frightfully true. I felt sorry for Cagalli for her lack of spine and spirit and submitting to Yuna's demands.... then felt good for her being back with the Archangel and trying to do what's right. But now I feel sorry for her again.

Murrue Ramius, however, has other plans for Minerva's fate and flies to its rescue.... Talia is baffled. First the Archangel forces take out Minerva's Tannhauser, then protects it from the Earth Forces. "Could they really be here for the absurd purpose of stopping this battle?" Why yes, Talia. You've got that right, absurd as it might be.

During the battle, Athrun tries to contact Kira but can't get through. Andy Waltfeld is back in the field, piloting a custom-colored Zeta Gundam-esque Murasame - AWESOME! Kira shoots or slices arms off of Shinn's Impulse, Heine's GOUF, Stella's Gaia... Kira really has the whole "disarmament" philosophy down very well. *ducks the flying tomatoes* But in the confusion, Stella goes bonkers, flying at Freedom, but Heine's GOUF gets in the way - he wants a piece of Kira too - and Heine is killed when the Gaia's wing-blades slice through his GOUF's waist and cockpit. Athrun is shocked... and so am I. Heine was such a good guy, and I got the feeling that he and Athrun were starting to become "brothers" in a sense... and boy, Heine didn't last long. I'm surprised, considering he was in the opening credits for quite a little while.

When all is said and done, pretty much everyone -not- on the Archangel is angry at them for their interference in the battle, including (and especially) Athrun, for Heine's death. He thinks they're making a mistake, trying to achieve their goal the wrong way. Athrun decides he wants to talk to them and resolve it, and find out what's going on. Using his authority as a FAITH member, he strikes out on his own, going ashore and bumping into Mirialla. Mirialla seems a bit distrusting of Athrun since he's back in ZAFT now, but because he's doing this own his own, she agrees to put him in touch with the Archangel. As he's out and about, he's being secretly tailed by Lunamaria...

Kira and Cagalli meet up with Athrun and Mirialla after receiving Mirialla's coded message. There's a lot of anger and heartache on all sides of their meeting, from Athrun angry that Kira interfered in the battle and got a friend killed, and wanting Cagalli and the others to go home to Orb and end the alliance treaty, while Cagallia and Kira can't understand why he's re-joined ZAFT and defending Durandel, who's using a fake Lacus for propaganda purposes and may have tried to assassinate the real Lacus. Athrun is shocked at this, and promises to look into it. Kira is untrusting of Durandel and the PLANTs, though, until they get some answers. Athrun's also angry at Kira for preaching "no killing" but having taken lives in the past anyway. Ouch... Kira agrees, and says he doesn't want to kill anyone, but he has to try to stop the fighting. Athrun tells him and Cagalli to go home to Orb. His last words to Cagalli, after seeing the ring he gave her on her finger: "There are certain things that I can understand, but not accept. You know what I mean." Ouch again...

And watching this whole painful meeting is Lunamaria, who's snooping in on their talk with surveillance equipment. Is she tailing Athrun because of her crush, or professional curiosity... or was she ordered to follow him by Talia and see what he's up to?

Alright, Athrun is really starting to piss me off at this point. I've been trying to understand and even defend his back-treading behavior up until now, but you've all been telling me I'm wrong, that he's indeed lost and repeating his character growth from SEED. Well, I'm starting to agree now. His behavior the last few episodes, culiminating in this meeting with Kira and Cagalli, just has really turned me off his character. I can understand him going to the PLANTs to try to get a handle on the situation there, but he should've come right back home to Orb - minus the new ZAFT uniform and the "special authority" he's hardly even touching. He's gone back to being angry and confused about where he should be and what he should be doing. Durandel seemed to want Athrun (and the Minerva) to be this war's Archangel, bringing the good fight and some sanity to this out-of-control conflict, but so far, Athrun's just being the good little soldier, following orders from home, back to the usual fighting and killing like everyone else does in war. If he's truly looking for a way to end the conflict (and particularly, get Orb out of it), I'm not seeing it at all. And his harsh words when he left their meeting... it feels like the final nail in the coffin of his friendship and his love and the good things we saw him find back in SEED. He's going back down a dark, lonely road... and he doesn't have to. *sigh*

Kira, for his part, I'm unsure what to think of right now. I believe and even support his sincerity in wanting to end the war and prevent further bloodshed. I can even fully understand and even agree with his distrust of Durandel, as much as I adore Durandel as a philosopher and speaker. But... I'm starting to detect a hint of self-righteousness in Kira. Cagalli, however, seems to have gotten her spine back, being "kidnapped" from her wedding by Kira and taking a stand for Orb's original ideals of peace and neutrality... but she's lost her heart in the process, said heart having been ripped out by Athrun.

I'm feeling very uneasy about these three... and really upset with Athrun.

Meanwhile, back on the Minerva, intrigue is afoot. We see Rey Za Burrell copying files from a computer onto a disc (or vice versa)... then he accesses -another- computer in another room... then he visits Talia in her office. After that, Arthur is sending Rey and Shinn out on a recon mission, having received a tip (from Rey? Or did Rey get said tip from someone else?) on an Earth Forces research facility in the area at a place called Lodonia.

Shinn and Rey take their Gundams to the facility, which turns out to be a gruesome scene that looks like it was haunted by the ghost of Josef Mengele. It's also rigged with explosives to be destroyed, having just very recently been abandoned. When they get inside the lab, however, Rey has a violent seizure that cannot be explained. The Minerva crew is called in to disarm the bombs and secure the facility, with lots of shock and anger and fear reactions going around among them. The facility is full of dead children, and even a few brutally murdered scientist types, the kids in collars and scrubs, killed in various bloody ways, tanks full of brains... it's horrifying. Talia checks out the records and sees that this is where the Earth Alliance carried out its "Extended" project. The Extended are Normals who have had their bodies and minds enhanced and manipulated with drugs and surgery and other means, who exist only to fight. The first successful crop of Extended were the three Druggie pilots from SEED... the second successful batch are the three current Gundam pilots, Auel, Sting and Stella. The children who were interred there, in addition to the gruesome modifications forced on their bodies, were also put through rigorous combat training, and the ones who couldn't keep up or compete were butchered by the others... Shinn's pointing out that Blue Cosmos saying genetic manipulation is wrong, but then doing this stuff to children, is so hypocritical. Right on, Shinn.

I was so horrified by these scenes. Seriously, I watched this episode yesterday evening, and last night I had a gruesome and very disturbing dream involving a lab or facility full of imprisoned and traumatized and tortured kids.... it really bothered me to my core. The Earth Forces turning civilian populations into slave labor is bad enough, but -this-, kidnapping and violating children to turn them into freakish killing machines... *shudders in horror*

During their exploration of the chambers of horror, Rey has a flashback of himself as a young boy... with Rau Le Creuset... and Gilbert Durandel, the two talking about something... I'm wondering if Durandel, being a DNA analyst, created Rey as another clone of Mu La Flaga's father, or perhaps a clone of Rau himself (clone of a clone), and if Durandel was a co-conspirator with Rau in some capacity... I've been getting more and more suspicious of Durandel, especially after his last meeting with Athrun. I'm thinking Durandel may indeed be some sort of mastermind behind a lot of the events happening - even the Break the World incident and attempted assassination of Lacus, but he means what he says about wanting to expose and stop Logos and put an end to bloody wars. He's just going about this in a very sneaky, underhanded way. Hmm... so many burning questions now, and what possible-Mu-clone Neo Roanoke has to do with all of this too...

On the John Paul Jones, the Extended trio (now that I have a simple term to refer to them as ) are doing their thing, when Auel and Stella accidentally use each other's block words (Auel's is "mother," it would seem), and they start arguing, after Stella asks about the lab in Lodonia, which is "the place they lived at before." Auel gets angry, saying, "How the hell can I be calm?! Mother is at the laboratory!" And when he says "die" and makes Stella go wonky, she remembers another word that's become important to her since her chance meeting with Shinn: "protect." She boards her Gaia and breaks out of the ship, going to the Lodonia lab, with four words on her lips: "Lodonia. Lab. Mother. Protect."

The Minerva detects the incoming Gaia, and Shinn and Athrun take off in their Gundams to intercept it. They have a fight, with Shinn really beating up the Gaia, slicing a gap open in its cockpit hatch. The Gaia is crashed on the ground, and Shinn looks into the exposed cockpit, and sees an unconscious Stella. Dunh-dunh-DUNH!

And a few miscelleanous comments to wrap this post up:

The Archangel has a imitation hot springs room! Neat! And Lacus is cute, squirting water at Cagalli to try to cheer her up.

Cagalli has kept on wearing the ring Athrun gave her - at least up until their last meeting. I wonder if she'll be wearing it after that?

Speaking of rings... whatever happened with that ring Lacus gave Kira near the end of SEED, that was floating up in his helmet at the end of the series?

I'm not too crazy about the latest opening credits song on Episode 25. However, we do see lots of characters naked in it. Have I ever mentioned that Murrue Ramius is hot?

[Dark Duel]

So the new ZAFT/FAITH member mystery pilot with the golden hair is Heine Westenfluss, who's also been assigned to the Minerva with his nifty looking GOUF Ignited.
<snip>
I want to like Heine, but I feel like he's really just a watchdog for Durandel for some mysterious purpose.

Not saying you don't have the right idea, but he's not it; he really is exactly what he looks like: a real nice guy. However if you remember Seed(which I bet you do, having just watched it), listening carefully to Heine should tell you something else about his character.
Shan't say no more here

EDIT: And yeah, the GOUF Ignited is a really nifty MS. What's especially nifty about it is that not only is it as much of a shameless nod to the UC, but the hilarious bit is that the CE's GOUF Ignited succeeds at something the Principality of Zeon consistently failed at: a flight-type Gouf!

[Jaynz]

Heine's VA is a bit of a running joke in the SEED verse.

The GOUF-I is pretty nice, but not quite as nice for me as the ZAKU update. Sadly, I can't seem to find a 1/144 kit of it in 'GOUF' colors, which I want for my ZAFT suit collection. The suit does actually makes me want to see a GYAN and GELGOOG in the CE... maybe variants of the BABI?

[domino]

I really think you're exaggerating the firepower advantage of the Impulse over the Strike. Force Impulse and Aile Strike are exactly equal in firepower. Base Impulse does have the shield and beam rifle, and Sword Impulse has a few more weapons overall than Sword Strike. However I'd hardly call those "vastly" superior.

You're right that the Aile Strike and Force Impulse have the same weapons however given the fact that Freedom has always been hailed as fast and super-manuevrable then it's obvious that Force Impulse is better than Aile Strike given how Shinn chased down Kira during their fight.

Also, don't forget that the Sword Impulse included two ASSwords, two beam boomerangs and also included a larger shield and beam rifle compared to the Sword Strike which only had one of each and no beam rifle plus a smaller shield.

You got the Blast Impulse pretty much correct.

I don't even see this as debatable. The Impulse Gundam was better in every way and saying it had the same performance as the Strike really can't fly.

For clarity though, we may consider the base Strike vs the base Impulse and IIRC, the base Strike required the additional battery power from its weapons packs to run those same weapons ie it couldn't use the beam rifle without the Aile Striker whereas the Impulse can and has. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Zeonista]

And I'm back with my reviews and comments for Episodes 21 thru 25.

This is going to be my last direct response, before I go to Sugoicon tomorrow, for the weekend. As Go-fer Wrangler, I will be living the Gundam dream. Which is to say, I will be chivying emo teens about, giving them assignments, scolding them when they go off on a tangent, and praising them when they perform to spec. Hope you make it through the back stretch of GSD with the same enthusiasm as the front half, Burke!

Athrun wakes up in his room at the whichever-ZAFT-base-Minerva-is-at-this-week base... with Meer in bed with him. My exact words were, "Oh NO f**kin' way!" Then Lunamaria Hawke knocks on the door. Much teenage deer-in-headlights awkwardness ensues for Athrun, followed by annoyance and frustration. Meer wants to live the "full" lifestyle of her idol Lacus Clyne, and that includes being all romantic with Athrun, but he's not having that. And Lumamaria being all jealous and obsessive with Athrun, and he reacts to her as if what he does with any other girls is any of her business... you've really got your hands full, Athrun.

This sort of non-standard Gundam bedroom farce was very entertaining, especially as the leadoff piece. Athrun's backwards leap is a great advertisement for Coordinator athletic potential. Luna-chan doesn't come off well against Meer, but they don't teach that sort of warfare at the Academy. If playing Athrun's snugglebunny is part of the Lacus impression, then Meer is ready to rock! Athrun has some explaining to do....

So the new ZAFT/FAITH member mystery pilot with the golden hair is Heine Westenfluss, who's also been assigned to the Minerva with his nifty looking GOUF Ignited. Talia wonders what Durandel's up to, putting yet another FAITH member on her ship. Heine, for his part, is very friendly and outgoing, trying to get his new teammates to loosen up, and it even rubs off on Athrun a bit, who's really gotten a stick up his posterior..

Athrun is starting to have second thoughts already, and having to deal with the emo Impulse ace and would-be mistresses before coffee, he's definitely grumpy. Heine is a likable fellow, and he comes across as a decent enough fellow for a FAITH member. Dark Duel is correct, ZAFT has perfected the Gouf H-series program!

Actually, Heine had already made an appearance during the fighting near the PLANTs earlier. Remember the scenes of an orange ZAKU Phantom?

Shinn has really taken to Stella, and he promises to protect her. I'm soooooo getting a Four Murasame/Rosamia Baddam vibe from this girl - the mentally broken orphan girl, manipulated and turned into a war machine by the big, bad, evil military, and our "hero" (sorry, I still can't think of Shinn as a central hero in this series yet, despite a couple of heroic acts recently) is falling for her in a way. Howver, I've noticed that after this point, when he or anyone else says the word "die" around Stella... she doesn't freak out anymore. She also gives Shinn a seashell as a personal momento. Awwww how sweet! And her meeting Shinn has other effects on her personality/programming as well...

The Extends are tragic enough in their own way, I suppose, and non-kill mode Stellar is cute and hapless enough to make Shinn play the "hero" without thinking twice. It's obvious the story was trying the star-crossed Gundam romance at this point. I wasn't sold on it so much, because as a Zeta fan I have standards for that sort of thing. That, and it had been done well twice in first SEED, maybe they could try something else this time? Well, I could hope for it, anyway!

I am quite sympathetic with you on the inability to recognize Shinn as a true Gundam hero, capable of holding his own near the mid-point of the series. The story had put Shinn in the right places, and do the right things, but he hadn't shown the type of growth at this point that made the classic UC & AU heroes the definite heroes at the same point. That, and he kept having to share the spotlight with Kira & Athrun, which hurt him by comparison. Athrun was having all sorts of conflicted drama, and Kira was holding to his course as the champion of TSA. What was the overly grieving berserker of a new hero who had just gotten his first love interest supposed to do? (For a comparison, note in Zeta Gundam how Camille is the focal character from the beginning, and stays that way.)

Djibril is chewing out the Atlantic Federation president for not doing enough to put down the various rebellions around the world and be more aggressive against ZAFT/PLANTs. The President points out that Phantom Pain is under Djibril's control, and that he should let them handle it. Djibril decides to also drag the Orb military (now obligated as part of the new world treaty alliance) into the conflict and have them help with wiping out the ZAFT forces supporting the local rebels in the Black Sea area. The orders are passed through channels, and Yuna is more than happy to order his military into the fray, much to the chagrin of the Orb military officers.

Djibril proves that fanatical leaders make really bad planners and directors. They also don't appreciate anyone else giving less than 100% to the cause, either! The Atlantic Federation president is correct, the special ops like Phantom Pain should be handling counter-insurgency while the regular forces get ready to stop ZAFT's advance. But Djibril finds some new fodder to throw into the fray, his erstwhile ally Orb. Cagalli warned them, they didn't listen, now it's going to get messy....

Neo Roanoke talks about the trio's lack of memories, how they only need to do their jobs and defeat the enemy. Stella is afraid of death, and in order to not die, she has to defeat the enemy, period. Neo's comment, "Are we happier with memories, or are we happier without them? I think about that from time to time," gives me pause...

I used to think the cyber Newtype program from UC was pretty extreme in terms of making science serve Mars. Then we met the Extended subjects, and I had to extend the boundaries of "extreme" again.

I very much suspect he's a clone of Mu La Flaga (and not the real deal) with a different programmed personality and memories. As this batch of episodes proceed, my curiosity about him and Rey Za Burrell grows.

Get back to us about that later on. I wonder if you will find it to be as much of a turn-off as many fans did the first time around. There were a lot of people for whom the mere suspicion of a clone existed completely betrayed the big end of SEED.

The Orb fleet arrives and joins up with their Earth Forces' allies, with Yuna on board barking orders and making a clown of himself. He's such a wimp. Barfing at sea, sleeping in ridiculous looking pajamas while hugging a giant pillow, and so on. I don't know whether to despise this guy or laugh at him.

Yuna, already tagged as a coward when face-to-face with Freedom, gets no respect, and no mercy from the story. He's a despicable little git who sold out his nation for profit and false security, and it shows.

The Minerva sets sail to face the invading Earth Forces' fleet trying to retake the Black Sea. Athrun is shocked to hear that part of the fleet belongs to Orb. Prior to the battle, Athrun and Heine have a nice talk, bonding and discussing both their desires not to have to fight anyone, no matter what nation they're from. But they both accept that they're soldiers in a war, and they have to fight or die.

Once again, Athrun has to toe the party line, or fall under suspicion. Heine can be excused for even politely asking if he will give his fullest against former friends. Heine is also right to be suspicious why so many talented people and FAITH members are on Minerva. By the normal scope of things, he and Athrun should be leading their own squadrons into battle from separate ships/bases. Why all the effort in pooling the talent here?

Captain Talia Galdys orders the Minerva to launch its mobile suits and go into battle. The fighting's getting started, and she orders Minerva's Tannhauser BFG to fire at the Orb fleet. It's about to discharge when suddenly it's shot through and blown up by a beam rifle blast... coming from Kira's Freedom Gundam! The Archangel also shows up, clearly intent on intervening in and stopping this battle before it becomes a bloodbath.

And here we go into the first irreconcilable meeting between the three sides, with Yuna and Neo standing in for the Earth Alliance. Awkward ain't the word for it! Cagalli & Kira do their best to make everybody back off, but it's not going to happen.

And Cagalli... poor Cagalli... has an emotional breakdown, frozen in battle as things go horribly, horribly wrong all around her and there's nothing she can do to stop it.

This scene annoyed the hell out of me the first time around, as I was waiting for the SEED-era Cagalli to emerge, and confront the Shrikes & Murasames and tell them to back off RIGHT NOW! Unfortunately, she gets hit by despair instead of rage, and takes herself out of the fight. Having had a personal moment of despair or two of my own since then, I can better identify with her feeling crushed that nothing is turning out right at all. She still should have yelled at everyone and told Yuna where to stick his precious alliance, though.

Murrue Ramius, however, has other plans for Minerva's fate and flies to its rescue.... Talia is baffled. First the Archangel forces take out Minerva's Tannhauser, then protects it from the Earth Forces. "Could they really be here for the absurd purpose of stopping this battle?" Why yes, Talia. You've got that right, absurd as it might be.

You have to wonder where Talia-kanchou was during Jachin Due, when Archangel and the rest of the Three Ships were absurdly derailing Doomsday. Or maybe she and the rest of Minerva aren't understanding that they are being looked at as part of the problem too?

And watching this whole painful meeting is Lunamaria, who's snooping in on their talk with surveillance equipment. Is she tailing Athrun because of her crush, or professional curiosity... or was she ordered to follow him by Talia and see what he's up to?

Talia told her to keep an eye on Athrun, ostensibly to make sure he returned alive, under his own power. Unfortunately, Athrun is now on the record for engaging in unauthorized diplomacy. You'd think no one had FAITH in him, or something like that.

Alright, Athrun is really starting to piss me off at this point. I've been trying to understand and even defend his back-treading behavior up until now, but you've all been telling me I'm wrong, that he's indeed lost and repeating his character growth from SEED. Well, I'm starting to agree now.

Told you so. But it's OK, you cheered for him like we did, and got let down in the clutch, just like us. Athrun's decision to choose a side and rejoin ZAFT returns to haunt him here. He can't go back to episode 5, he can't just skip off with Kira and Cagalli, and he can't apologize for defending Minerva. His self-justifying argument falls apart in the face of his friends' stand on principle. Kira's suspicion and Cagalli's sorrow hit him like a truck, but all he can do is say "it's not over yet". Where's the guy who decided that no more kids were going to be orphans if he could help it? He's not in this scene, to be sure. As for Cagalli, yeah, he fails at being the hero there, too.

Kira, for his part, I'm unsure what to think of right now. I believe and even support his sincerity in wanting to end the war and prevent further bloodshed. I can even fully understand and even agree with his distrust of Durandel, as much as I adore Durandel as a philosopher and speaker. But... I'm starting to detect a hint of self-righteousness in Kira.

Kira seems self-righteous in comparison to the storm-tossed Athrun and the reckless Shinn. But his righteousness is not pretense or smug condescension, it is a terrible sincerity that we the viewers rarely see in this cynical age. Kira has decided to fight for the right cause, with the right friends, at the side of his pink-haired right inspiration, and he feels no need to apologize for it. Kira stands solid as Freedom, to which Athrun comes off looking like Gumby.

Meanwhile, back on the Minerva, intrigue is afoot. We see Rey Za Burrell copying files from a computer onto a disc (or vice versa)... then he accesses -another- computer in another room...

Suffice to say, Luna-chan wasn't the only person observing Athrun that day. Athrun's decision to act on FAITH may come back to accuse him of a crime he never meant to commit.

Shinn and Rey take their Gundams to the facility, which turns out to be a gruesome scene that looks like it was haunted by the ghost of Josef Mengele. It's also rigged with explosives to be destroyed, having just very recently been abandoned.

Did anyone like me check to see if the animation crew had inserted an umbrella logo somewhere?

The children who were interred there, in addition to the gruesome modifications forced on their bodies, were also put through rigorous combat training, and the ones who couldn't keep up or compete were butchered by the others... Shinn's pointing out that Blue Cosmos saying genetic manipulation is wrong, but then doing this stuff to children, is so hypocritical. Right on, Shinn.

The facility shows the gaze-into-the-abyss situation reflected onto Blue Cosmos. In order to fight genetically altered foes, they have been forced by their own beliefs to create physically and mentally altered soldiers as well. Afraid that super-science would produce monsters, they have instituted controls that make their Extended pilots less than human. They are the people they were afraid would take over, if Coordinators took over and ran the Earth.

The Archangel has a imitation hot springs room! Neat! And Lacus is cute, squirting water at Cagalli to try to cheer her up.

a lot of people denounced the baths as gratuitous, and a technological nightmare, and they were right....but who really cares?

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

And I'm back with my reviews and comments for Episodes 21 thru 25.

Athrun wakes up in his room at the whichever-ZAFT-base-Minerva-is-at-this-week base... with Meer in bed with him. My exact words were, "Oh NO f**kin' way!" Then Lunamaria Hawke knocks on the door. Much teenage deer-in-headlights awkwardness ensues for Athrun

Trouble ahead.

So the new ZAFT/FAITH member mystery pilot with the golden hair is Heine Westenfluss, who's also been assigned to the Minerva with his nifty looking GOUF Ignited. Talia wonders what Durandel's up to, putting yet another FAITH member on her ship. Heine, for his part, is very friendly and outgoing, trying to get his new teammates to loosen up, and it even rubs off on Athrun a bit, who's really gotten a stick up his posterior... oh wait, I was going to get back to Athrun later. *gives Athrun another scolding look* I want to like Heine, but I feel like he's really just a watchdog for Durandel for some mysterious purpose.

Just so you know, not that it's a big secret or anything, but Heine's VA is the pop singer T.M. Revolution.

I'm soooooo getting a Four Murasame/Rosamia Baddam vibe from this girl - the mentally broken orphan girl, manipulated and turned into a war machine by the big, bad, evil military, and our "hero" (sorry, I still can't think of Shinn as a central hero in this series yet, despite a couple of heroic acts recently) is falling for her in a way. Howver, I've noticed that after this point, when he or anyone else says the word "die" around Stella... she doesn't freak out anymore. She also gives Shinn a seashell as a personal momento. Awwww how sweet! And her meeting Shinn has other effects on her personality/programming as well...

I quote Chris to sum up my feelings on Stella: "Stella is Quess Paraya cosplaying as Four Murasame and failing miserably."

I very much suspect he's a clone of Mu La Flaga (and not the real deal) with a different programmed personality and memories. As this batch of episodes proceed, my curiosity about him and Rey Za Burrell grows.

Well... it has been established that there's cloning in this universe...

The Orb fleet arrives and joins up with their Earth Forces' allies, with Yuna on board barking orders and making a clown of himself. He's such a wimp. Barfing at sea, sleeping in ridiculous looking pajamas while hugging a giant pillow, and so on. I don't know whether to despise this guy or laugh at him. That cool Orb admiral/captain/whatever is back, clearly not liking what they're doing and what's happening to their nation, but he's putting hopes that Cagalli and the Archangel will come through for them. Good for you, whatever your name is!

Again, how did Cagalli ever let this guy talk her into marriage? I mean at first he was just smarmy but now he's a joke. Why didn't Admiral Todaka just find a way to "accidentally" lock him in his quarters?

Neo orders the Orb fleet to take point and lure the Minerva out and into Neo's regular Earth Forces' fleet. Yune is far too eager to please his new allies. "That'll be very pretty," he says of the coming battle. The Orb captain/admiral/whatever and his officers are -not- happy.

Head bang face palm

Captain Talia Galdys orders the Minerva to launch its mobile suits and go into battle. The fighting's getting started, and she orders Minerva's Tannhauser BFG to fire at the Orb fleet. It's about to discharge when suddenly it's shot through and blown up by a beam rifle blast... coming from Kira's Freedom Gundam! The Archangel also shows up, clearly intent on intervening in and stopping this battle before it becomes a bloodbath. Cagalli takes off in her Strike Rouge, announcing herself to everyone and ordering the Orb forces to stop fighting and go home. Kira doesn't think Cagalli could've stopped this if she were still home in Orb or not, but Lacus is sympathetic to Cagalli, saying that Cagalli's heart is clearly seeing things now that she couldn't have in her situation back at Onogoro. Cagalli is holding fast to both her own and her father's ideals - to not only keep Orb out of any fighting, but to put a stop to anyone else fighting, as well.

But it doesn't quite work does it? This ain't the Bloody Valentine War, there's bad guys (apparently) on just one side here that need to be stopped, not just talked down.

And Cagalli... poor Cagalli... has an emotional breakdown, frozen in battle as things go horribly, horribly wrong all around her and there's nothing she can do to stop it. A speech of her father's (that we saw in the Shinn-narrated recap episode) is remembered/played over the battle, Lord Uzumi's words of warning about what would happen if Orb went down the path of taking sides coming frightfully true. I felt sorry for Cagalli for her lack of spine and spirit and submitting to Yuna's demands.... then felt good for her being back with the Archangel and trying to do what's right. But now I feel sorry for her again.

Can't have much sympathy for her. If you look at it from an in-universe viewpoint, this is partly her fault for being weak. It'd be different if the Seirans had simply undercut Cagalli and she had escaped because she couldn't stop them politically but no, she was just spineless.

When all is said and done, pretty much everyone -not- on the Archangel is angry at them for their interference in the battle, including (and especially) Athrun, for Heine's death. He thinks they're making a mistake, trying to achieve their goal the wrong way.

As well they should be. The Archangel's interference pretty much did nothing and people who died might have lived and people who lived might have died. What would have happened if, when Cagalli was paralyzed, had she been shot down? What then?

Kira is untrusting of Durandel and the PLANTs, though, until they get some answers.

Then here's an idea Kira. Instead of flying around on the Archangel on Earth, trying to be Celestial Being and failing, go up to space and find the answers. You knew that Blue Cosmos was manipulating the Alliance, go investigate that. Investigate the Coordinator terrorists. *sigh*

Alright, Athrun is really starting to piss me off at this point.

I agree with everything you said.

But... I'm starting to detect a hint of self-righteousness in Kira. Cagalli, however, seems to have gotten her spine back, being "kidnapped" from her wedding by Kira and taking a stand for Orb's original ideals of peace and neutrality... but she's lost her heart in the process, said heart having been ripped out by Athrun.

JUST a hint? And don't worry, Cagalli will be wishy-washy a bit more...

Shinn and Rey take their Gundams to the facility, which turns out to be a gruesome scene that looks like it was haunted by the ghost of Josef Mengele.... Shinn's pointing out that Blue Cosmos saying genetic manipulation is wrong, but then doing this stuff to children, is so hypocritical. Right on, Shinn.

I have to admit, I don't think we ever got anything this horror-esque in 00.

I was so horrified by these scenes. Seriously, I watched this episode yesterday evening, and last night I had a gruesome and very disturbing dream involving a lab or facility full of imprisoned and traumatized and tortured kids.... it really bothered me to my core. The Earth Forces turning civilian populations into slave labor is bad enough, but -this-, kidnapping and violating children to turn them into freakish killing machines... *shudders in horror*

I wonder if the Zeon fanboys ever get the Earth Alliance and the Earth Federation confused?

The Archangel has a imitation hot springs room! Neat! And Lacus is cute, squirting water at Cagalli to try to cheer her up.

The equivalent of the Enterprise's holodeck perhaps?

Cagalli has kept on wearing the ring Athrun gave her - at least up until their last meeting. I wonder if she'll be wearing it after that?

Oh you'll see.

Have I ever mentioned that Murrue Ramius is hot?

And she's available! Actually, you know what would have been amusing? If Murrue and Andy had gotten together.

[Zeonista]

I'm soooooo getting a Four Murasame/Rosamia Baddam vibe from this girl - the mentally broken orphan girl, manipulated and turned into a war machine by the big, bad, evil military, and our "hero" (sorry, I still can't think of Shinn as a central hero in this series yet, despite a couple of heroic acts recently) is falling for her in a way. Howver, I've noticed that after this point, when he or anyone else says the word "die" around Stella... she doesn't freak out anymore. She also gives Shinn a seashell as a personal momento. Awwww how sweet! And her meeting Shinn has other effects on her personality/programming as well...

I quote Chris to sum up my feelings on Stella: "Stella is Quess Paraya cosplaying as Four Murasame and failing miserably."

Chris can be awesome like that sometimes.

Again, how did Cagalli ever let this guy talk her into marriage? I mean at first he was just smarmy but now he's a joke. Why didn't Admiral Todaka just find a way to "accidentally" lock him in his quarters?

By the rules, Yuna can't be overturned as commander on board a ship until he starts rolling 2 balls in his hand and takes away the ice cream.

When all is said and done, pretty much everyone -not- on the Archangel is angry at them for their interference in the battle, including (and especially) Athrun, for Heine's death. He thinks they're making a mistake, trying to achieve their goal the wrong way.

As well they should be. The Archangel's interference pretty much did nothing and people who died might have lived and people who lived might have died. What would have happened if, when Cagalli was paralyzed, had she been shot down? What then?

I tell you man, you should charge people for these fanfic ideas.

Shinn and Rey take their Gundams to the facility, which turns out to be a gruesome scene that looks like it was haunted by the ghost of Josef Mengele.... Shinn's pointing out that Blue Cosmos saying genetic manipulation is wrong, but then doing this stuff to children, is so hypocritical. Right on, Shinn.

I have to admit, I don't think we ever got anything this horror-esque in 00.

Are you counting

Spoiler

Hallelujah deciding to lighten the load on the shuttle full of test subject kids, or Nena updating the wedding from New Jack City?

I wonder if the Zeon fanboys ever get the Earth Alliance and the Earth Federation confused?

Actually, we just think of the Earth Alliance as the EUG being honest about their feelings on a lot of things, or maybe what the Federation might have become if the Titans had better PR. However, it got a little strange when Fukuda wanted us to live in clusters of hourglasses, get cosmetic surgery, and wear less cool uniforms.

The Archangel has a imitation hot springs room! Neat! And Lacus is cute, squirting water at Cagalli to try to cheer her up.

The equivalent of the Enterprise's holodeck perhaps?

I'll buy that for a dollar!

[Burke Rukes]

Hey everyone, I just finished watching Episodes 26 thru 30 this evening. It's too late to do my write-up for them, I'll do that tomorrow. Just checking on the thread and Arbiter said a couple of things I wanted to reply to.

I quote Chris to sum up my feelings on Stella: "Stella is Quess Paraya cosplaying as Four Murasame and failing miserably."

Right! Quess Paraya... that thought did cross my mind yesterday when I was thinking about Stella's personality, particularly how she seems to go all happy-tearful-eyed around Neo, almost fawning over him like Quess did with Char. I meant to make that point earlier, thanks for the reminder.

Oh, and while so far the Shinn/Stella thing is entertaining, and it's great to see Shinn truly caring about someone and my heart -totally- breaks for Stella... the bottom line is that Kamille/Four > Shinn/Stella.

Then here's an idea Kira. Instead of flying around on the Archangel on Earth, trying to be Celestial Being and failing, go up to space and find the answers. You knew that Blue Cosmos was manipulating the Alliance, go investigate that. Investigate the Coordinator terrorists. *sigh*

Yeah.... that's starting to annoy me at this point, too. It seems like all the Archangel crew can do is sit around hiding on the ocean floor, watching CNN and wondering what to do, waiting for a miraculous piece of information to fall in their lap. I get that they want to stop the fighting, but interfering in two major battles isn't doing the trick. If they're so concerned about stopping all the fighting, why aren't they interfering in -every- little "brushfire war" and local rebellion that's broken out across the world? The fact is, they can't. They need to be investigating and looking for information, not sitting around waiting for it. Fortunately, a couple of people decide to do just this in the episodes I'll be commenting on tomorrow. They just need to be doing MORE of this.

And she's available! Actually, you know what would have been amusing? If Murrue and Andy had gotten together.

Hehehe, the first few times we see them at Onogoro Island here in Destiny, I thought maybe they -had- become an item. And frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they do. At least, in Murrue's favor, Andy isn't a MA pilot.

[LightningCount]

Meanwhile, Stella is on a rocky beach somewhere, dancing in her absent-minded way, laughing and enjoying the sight of the ocean, which seems to be a regular thing for her. Shinn Asuka happens to be nearby, out for some R&R and sees her fall off a cliff into the water. She can't swim, so he jumps in and rescues her, telling her she's not going to die...Shinn has really taken to Stella, and he promises to protect her. I'm soooooo getting a Four Murasame/Rosamia Baddam vibe from this girl - the mentally broken orphan girl, manipulated and turned into a war machine by the big, bad, evil military, and our "hero" (sorry, I still can't think of Shinn as a central hero in this series yet, despite a couple of heroic acts recently) is falling for her in a way.

This was a good sequence of events. Sort of like War for Two, but different enough to be its own thing. Its both sweet and melancholic. Shinn and Stella, and their interactions, work well together. They're both so wounded that they can understand one another in an almost non-verbal way. It's disturbing, but also touching. The thing about Shinn that is revealed here is that his desire to find someone to fight and place the blame and anger on is only one side of the coin. He also has a desire to believe in someone, as in when he liked Durandel praising him at dinner and telling him about how to solve the world's underlying problems, and to protect and love someone after losing his family--and maybe Stella can fit that role. She epitomizes the suffering he's felt all these years, and here's a second chance for him to redeem his anger. It's beautiful. I love this subplot. And as you said, it shows Shinn's underlying heart. I know he's angry and fallible, and not always heroic, but I feel for him and respect his effort.

Neo's comment, "Are we happier with memories, or are we happier without them? I think about that from time to time," gives me pause...

Nice dialogue. I like the mix of thoughtful and off-the-cuff dialogue from Neo. He comes off as a appealing masked man, I thought. He's not quite as "refined" as the usual masked man. He's almost more of a jock in attitude, though also has a paternal streak.

Prior to the battle, Athrun and Heine have a nice talk, bonding and discussing both their desires not to have to fight anyone, no matter what nation they're from. But they both accept that they're soldiers in a war, and they have to fight or die.

Heine is one cool dude. A mixture of wit and intelligence who contrasts the other pilots, and still maintains a mysterious air. He has a brief role, but it is important and memorable. And even though I'm not a hardcore UC fan, I somehow love his Ramba Ral homages.

Captain Talia Galdys orders the Minerva to launch its mobile suits and go into battle. The fighting's getting started, and she orders Minerva's Tannhauser BFG to fire at the Orb fleet. It's about to discharge when suddenly it's shot through and blown up by a beam rifle blast... coming from Kira's Freedom Gundam! The Archangel also shows up, clearly intent on intervening in and stopping this battle before it becomes a bloodbath. Cagalli takes off in her Strike Rouge, announcing herself to everyone and ordering the Orb forces to stop fighting and go home...And Cagalli... poor Cagalli... has an emotional breakdown.

I need to watch the series again sometime, but this was a moment that I thought the series was treading dangerous ground. I'm not sure if it was this episode quite as much as some of the upcoming ones or not, but the Cagalli crying melodrama was over-the-top and distracting, and Kira and the Archangel coming in and saying they're better than everyone was a major turn-off. In terms of fighting sequences, this episode is kind of made half-irrelevant by a superior choreographed and focused episode in the next batch. But episode 24, IIRC, it was kind of bordering on breaking the fourth wall. However, it still made for interesting drama at this point, given what happens with Heine and then Athrun in relation to Kira.

When all is said and done, pretty much everyone -not- on the Archangel is angry at them for their interference in the battle, including (and especially) Athrun, for Heine's death. He thinks they're making a mistake, trying to achieve their goal the wrong way...Alright, Athrun is really starting to piss me off at this point. I've been trying to understand and even defend his back-treading behavior up until now, but you've all been telling me I'm wrong, that he's indeed lost and repeating his character growth from SEED. Well, I'm starting to agree now. His behavior the last few episodes, culiminating in this meeting with Kira and Cagalli, just has really turned me off his character.

I don't think Athrun's not without legitimate complaint here. This was an interesting development. It was never a foregone conclusion that these people would always be friends. They weren't always in SEED. And in real life, development isn't permanent. people go back and forth between identities of who they are and who they were, and mixtures, depending on the circumstance. These characters were brought together under circumstances, and those circumstances came and went. They all came from different walks of life, though. Athrun is haunted by his father's ghost, and has always been one to follow the grain versus go against it. Remember, he never liked Kira's idealism--he called him naive in SEED. He wants a world that WORKS. He doesn't want to have to intervene every single time half-cocked with a team of freedom fighters. He's searching for solutions within the system, and people like Durandel have given him hope that it is possible. He's seen firsthand that Kira's plans don't solve problems, either. They didn't stop this war, and now they killed Heine and who knows who else as a consequence, only to slow the inevitable battles to come. I admire the Archangel to an extent, but Athrun's not totally wrong or being a jerk, either.

Kira, for his part, I'm unsure what to think of right now. I believe and even support his sincerity in wanting to end the war and prevent further bloodshed. I can even fully understand and even agree with his distrust of Durandel, as much as I adore Durandel as a philosopher and speaker. But... I'm starting to detect a hint of self-righteousness in Kira.

All that "Ultimate Coordinator" power, plot device or not, is getting to his head, don't you think? (This is the series I think that late SEED plot device was really meant for). It's kind of annoying, the way he judges and devalues everyone else's desires/goals on the battlefield, right or wrong. As Athrun says, he still causes hypocritical death. He and the Archangel crew inadvertently assisted in creating the "angry" Shinn you keep talking about, even when they were trying to do right. It raises difficult questions. I can respect those questions, but the possibility of dominance by Kira to solve those questions left be somewhat uneasy more than anything...

Shinn and Rey take their Gundams to the facility, which turns out to be a gruesome scene that looks like it was haunted by the ghost of Josef Mengele. It's also rigged with explosives to be destroyed, having just very recently been abandoned. When they get inside the lab, however, Rey has a violent seizure that cannot be explained...Talia checks out the records and sees that this is where the Earth Alliance carried out its "Extended" project. The Extended are Normals who have had their bodies and minds enhanced and manipulated with drugs and surgery and other means, who exist only to fight. The first successful crop of Extended were the three Druggie pilots from SEED... the second successful batch are the three current Gundam pilots, Auel, Sting and Stella...During their exploration of the chambers of horror, Rey has a flashback of himself as a young boy... with Rau Le Creuset... and Gilbert Durandel, the two talking about something...

Intriguing scene that sets Destiny apart while connecting loose threads from SEED. Scary as it is, it works well in the plot and with the themes of CE. (There is an awesome recap episode that explains the latter characters some more).

The Minerva detects the incoming Gaia, and Shinn and Athrun take off in their Gundams to intercept it. They have a fight, with Shinn really beating up the Gaia, slicing a gap open in its cockpit hatch. The Gaia is crashed on the ground, and Shinn looks into the exposed cockpit, and sees an unconscious Stella. Dunh-dunh-DUNH!

Shinn and Stella!!! I can't say too much, but their path together, I find it more compelling and powerful than the Zeta Gundam threads it references.

The Archangel has a imitation hot springs room! Neat! And Lacus is cute, squirting water at Cagalli to try to cheer her up.

Oh, my gosh. Did they install this off-season? This element is kind of jumping the shark, and bugs me a bit.

Speaking of rings... whatever happened with that ring Lacus gave Kira near the end of SEED, that was floating up in his helmet at the end of the series

Hmm, no clue.

I'm not too crazy about the latest opening credits song on Episode 25.

Oh, that's the one with the girl singing in a rhythmic, dark cadence, isn't it? I thought it was weird at first, but its dark, searching vibe really fits this stretch of episodes well. I like it.

EDIT:

Oh, and while so far the Shinn/Stella thing is entertaining, and it's great to see Shinn truly caring about someone and my heart -totally- breaks for Stella... the bottom line is that Kamille/Four > Shinn/Stella.

Oh, no way in the world! I know the reference is there, but...ugh, I can't say anything else, because it'd be spoilers.

Hey everyone, I just finished watching Episodes 26 thru 30 this evening.

The recurrent sea battles get a little annoying. I thought that ep. 28's execution almost negated 24's (if not for Heine's death in ep. 24).

Oh, Episode 29's my favorite clip episode! Metaphysical chess match between Rau and Durandel, talking about highbrow subjects? Yes, please!

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

I don't think Athrun's not without legitimate complaint here.

No he's not but that still doesn't change the fact that he really should be doing things differently.

Oh, my gosh. Did they install this off-season? This element is kind of jumping the shark, and bugs me a bit.

Perhaps they were thinking of converting the Archangel into a cruise ship?

Oh, and while so far the Shinn/Stella thing is entertaining, and it's great to see Shinn truly caring about someone and my heart -totally- breaks for Stella... the bottom line is that Kamille/Four > Shinn/Stella.

Oh, no way in the world! I know the reference is there, but...ugh, I can't say anything else, because it'd be spoilers.

Domon and Rain win all. Sorry mate, couldn't resist.

[Burke Rukes]

Oh, and while so far the Shinn/Stella thing is entertaining, and it's great to see Shinn truly caring about someone and my heart -totally- breaks for Stella... the bottom line is that Kamille/Four > Shinn/Stella.

Oh, no way in the world! I know the reference is there, but...ugh, I can't say anything else, because it'd be spoilers.

Domon and Rain win all. Sorry mate, couldn't resist.

Alright, I'll admit it, I was being facetious with the Kamille/Four > Shinn/Stella thing. It's just that I'm a very old-school fan and fell in love with Four when I first saw her in Zeta many many moons ago - especially after seeing that beautifully illustrated nude poster of her by Hiroyuki Kitazume from an issue of Newtype... *heart melts*

However, the Shinn/Stella relationship is very compelling and heart-warming, much more so than Kamille/Four. I'm cheering for them, hoping it works out, even though I know deep down that it's doomed to tragedy, as these "enemy soul mate" plot threads in Gundam usually do. Not to mention, I'm only up to episode 30 now (and I'll discuss eps 26-30 later today), and still have a ways to go to see where it's going. I'll reserve my final judgment until then.

[Sume Gai]

I definitely think the Four/Kamille plot line was better than Shinn/Stella mainly because in the former both sides seemed more genuinely human. Stella remains so Childlike throughout I have a hard time respecting this as a serious relationship. It feels more like a child and their first puppy (I'll let you decide who is who) than a connection between real characters.

I think Rosamia/Kamille is somewhat of a more apt comparison but where Kamille had by that point matured (somewhat) as a character Shinn has not.

[Dark Duel]

I actually feel very much the same as Burke regardng the entire relationship between Shinn and Stella - Having seen and being a big fan of Zeta Gundam myself, I always felt that the KamillexFour relationship was handled extremely well(better IMO than either Amuro and Lalah in MSG or Shiro and Aina in 08th), and while briefer, the relationship between Shinn and Stella was IMO just as well-done (a rare thing in this series)

True, Stella personality-wise is somewhat more akin to Rosamia than to Four, though I find her far less annoying and the interaction between her and Shinn IMO are much more reminiscent of the doomed romance between Kamille and Four than his interactions with brainwashed-brocon Rosamia.

This is just my opinion so YMMV, but the ShinnxStella relationship was probably my favorite single element of Destiny's overall plot, and I often find myself wishing they had done more with that part of the story (as well as handled Shinn's character in general better - he had a lot of potential that was IMO badly wasted).

I will also add that Shinkai no Kodoku, which is Stella's image song(the tune she's so often humming in the series), is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, and in my opinion one of, if not the greatest pieces of music in either Seed or Destiny. Personally I feel the song compares favorably with such classics as Who Wants to Live Forever.
Burke, I dunno if you've yet heard it, but you should check it out. If you want to wait, IIRC it plays during the first few minutes of Ep33 or so.