Gundam characters you're GLAD died

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by flamingtroll » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:25 pm

Jaynz wrote: It's really hard to write someone THAT nihilistic without them turning into a bad Disney villian. It can be done, though, but the effect would be creepy as hell. A man who becomes THAT divorced from what he's doing loses his emotional bearings completely ... they turn to 'stone', not maniacal. Can you imagine the same scenes where Zala's emotions are just GONE and he's doing this because it really is his cold calculation because he's put his humanity away for the 'cause' at that point?
Stalin, Mao, Hitler, you name it, are all like that, and they are not your typical bad Disney villian. It's pretty easy when you view the ones you are murdering some kind of sub-species. The fact that they have a "cause" just means that to them the end justifies the means, not necessarily nihillism.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Jaynz » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:33 pm

flamingtroll wrote:Stalin, Mao, Hitler, you name it, are all like that, and they are not your typical bad Disney villian. It's pretty easy when you view the ones you are murdering some kind of sub-species. The fact that they have a "cause" just means that to them the end justifies the means, not necessarily nihillism.
They're evil, but that have that same sort of 'detached air' about them, that complete lack of human empathy by the time that they're ordering these atrocities. It may not be nihilism (though Hitler in the bunker certainly was that), but it's a profound emotional detatchment, a level of darkness about what they're doing and the deliberate methodology in which they do it.

What they are not doing is cackling like madmen complete with 'bwahahaha'-level dialog.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by NewtypeS3 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:50 am

To temporarily divert the topic back onto, well, topic... what the hell. I'll give mine.

Characters I'm glad died... because they were annoying:
1) Katz. So much has been said about this guy, that I really can't repeat it without being redundant on so many levels. I wanted to like Katz, I did. He had the potential to allow Kamille to become a pseudo-mentor on some level, like how Kamille latched onto Quattro and forced him into the mentor role. And then he wouldn't stop making boneheaded decisions. Or being stupid. That rock was Tomino's way of saying "Sorry about that, have a laugh," I swear.
2) Reccoa Londe. It says something about how insane she was when death was the only way for her to go sane again. I get the whole "becoming the mask" thing Reccoa had going on and that it's implied that Scirocco brainwashed her... or something. But it doesn't stop her from being stupid.
3) Glemmy Toto. Dude. The guy's a creep (and the source of all the 'Char likes little girls' jokes, I swear) and was a joke character inflated to a massive threat for no reason other than to eat up screen time.
4) Shakti. What do you mean she didn't die? I don't know what you're talking about.

Characters I'm glad died... because their deaths were well-done:
1) Lyle Dylandy. Because for all the reasons everyone else said.
2) Treize Kushrenada. The man spent an entire series plotting and planning for a world that could move past war and evolve beyond the need for weapons. Moving people like chess pieces and keeping track of every death he caused either through his own actions or the actions of others... and he felt the best way to make sure this world was carried out was to remove himself from the world too. Treize may be overhyped to hell as a pilot, but the man was probably the best mastermind in Gundam.
3) Master Asia. If you weren't touched somehow by the time Domon and Master Asia went through their school's ritual "secret handshake chant," then something was wrong with you. Or it wasn't your thing, which is fair enough.
4) Kyoji Kashuu and Schwarz Bruder. A grand sacrifice to save someone from the ultimate torment as the living battery of a misguided beast, and a wonderful scene of brotherly love all at the same time. Master Asia's death might have come at the end of a massively awesome fight, but just thinking of this scene brings a tear to my eye.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:12 am

NewtypeS3 wrote: 1) Lyle Dylandy. Because for all the reasons everyone else said.
Methinks you mean NEIL Dylandy, 'cuz he's the one that got an awesome death. Lyle didn't die at all, IIRC.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by NewtypeS3 » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:12 pm

...
Well, whoops.

Yeah, I meant Lockon Mk.I - not his identical-twin, the Mk.II model (now with Trans-Am!).

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:33 pm

'tis cool. Identical twins, identical codename, identical mobile suit class. It's an easy mistake to make. (I honestly wish they had not gone the twin route, it felt kinda cheap)

While we're on 00, one character that I feel redeemed himself in death is Andrei Smirnov. He was a complete jerkoff for 99.99% of the screentime he got, but in the movie he actually almost redeemed all of that by being awesome and then getting a heroic death.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Flame-X » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Katz, with all the reasons already mentioned above. No need for me to add more.

Andrei Smirnov. Even though I was happy he died in the movie, I would've been happier if his death occurred in the TV series instead where the hate was more effective. Killing my favorite character in that show with all that stupid whiny reasoning is just unforgivable.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by RX-93v2_Hi-Nu » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:54 am

Flame-X wrote: Andrei Smirnov. Even though I was happy he died in the movie, I would've been happier if his death occurred in the TV series instead where the hate was more effective. Killing my favorite character in that show with all that stupid whiny reasoning is just unforgivable.
Thank you for saying that, I never really got over it myself and wished Somarie would of offed him as SS1 status with all that hatred and anger she had stored up inside her.
Thank you Setsuna for robbing me of my much needed closure with your "feelings".

For the sake of not being repetive, I agree with all Katz, Quess, Sara, etc. etc. all the obvious "I'm glad you finally died!" honorees. I will try to refrain from mentioning those already mentioned unless I can offer a different reason.
-------

Michael Trinity. That guy was a straight delta bravo. I hated him from the moment I saw him on the Ptolemaios. He only confirmed my suspicions later with the way he dealt with Union bases he attacked and the Flag pilots (i.e. Howard Mason). Nevertheless, there are always bigger jerks and I was quite thankful that he ran into one sooner than later.

Glemy Toto. A useless, spineless, bastard of a character. I still don't know what his role in ZZ was to date. I was not fond of the way he dealt with Cyber-Newtypes. That probably sums up the majority of my beef with him. I enjoy killing him everytime I encounter him with any Puru in DWG3. He get's C6 spammed to death everytime.

Yuna Seiran. Thank you for ruining Cagali's character forever in the C.E. universe. The only thing worse than your appearance in Destiny was the way they killed you. You deserved to be blowned up in a space shuttle departing for the moon or something of that nature.

There's more, that's it for now..

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Deathzealot » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:10 am

Hmmmmm.... Characters that I was glad died. Well many of my thoughts on this have already been mentioned here. But here are a few that haven't been mentioned yet. (I think?) And some less noteworthy characters.

Dekim Barton (Wing:EW) - Hated him with a passion and think it was almost poetic that one of his own men shot him.

Commander Bonaparte (Wing) - All I can say is Idiot! Who takes a slow-ass Airship like his into a battle with a Gundam. That just begs the Gundam pilot to kill you. /shakes head/

Rondo Ghina Sahaku (SEED Astray) - Just loved his death scene, and got what was coming to him, dagger to the cockpit. Also his death made me start liking his sister Mina a whole a lot better, though granted I was worried when she started to laugh manically after seeing her dead brother but her later scenes made up for it.

Balsam Arendo (SEED X Astray) - I really think this guy is one of the most worthless characters in Gundam History, though I admit that race is pretty damn close. Basically he brags about his kills in simulations and calls himself an ace thanks to him putting kill markers on his machine. Bah! Also talk about a worthless death, the Hyperion Unit 1 with only one leg and one arm managed to kill him when he was in a fully functional Hyperion Unit 2. /snort/ This guy also gets like what three pages of "screen time" and thats it. /shakes head/ I know this sounds like Patrick but at least Patrick became a likable character in the end. Okay moving on....

Shrike Member Kate Bush (Victory) - This of course is one of the those deaths I think was well done and moving, unlike many of the other death scenes of the Shrikes. Basically dies trying to save civilians from being smashed into the ground at unheard of speeds. It was just bad luck the enemy pilot was someone who just didn't care and killed her for that. There are a string of enemy pilots who wouldn't have killed her just because she was saving civilians.

Hmmmmm.... what else. Oh!

The Astray Trio (SEED) - Now the death of these three I believed where pointless and rushed. I really liked their characters, and thought they could have been developed a bit more maybe in Destiny or another Manga. /shakes head/

I have a few more but I believe that is it for now. Already have a few here that haven't been mentioned in this thread.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by ShadowCell » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:32 pm

I kind of mourned for Yuna. In the first dozen episodes or so of DESTINY he showed no sign of the clown he ultimately became. Sure, he was slimy and despicable, but a) what politician isn't, and b) it worked pretty well for him, as the guy manipulating the naive and inexperienced Cagalli. He would've made an interesting counterpoint to Durandal, as another slick, slimy manipulator doing the moving and shaking in the Cosmic Era's political world. At the very least, it would've forced Durandal to deal with someone more on his own level, since Djibril most certainly was not.

And then, poof, instant butt monkey, just add Kira.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Dark Duel » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:29 pm

I would argue that Kira was not the only contributing factor to Yuna's buttmonkeyness, though it was a major one.

But IIRC he managed perfectly well to make an ass of himself by trying to command military forces in the field (when he went off with Todaka's fleet) when to me it was pretty clear that an experienced field commander he wasn't. He was a pure political animal with zero military experience, and when he tried doing something he had no competence in he made an ass of himself.

Kira and his assorted hangers-on did contribute to that, but IMO even if you were to remove them from the equation Yuna would still look like a butt monkey compared to someone like say, Talia Gladys.
That was a mistake Durendal didn't really make when he was onboard the Minerva his role was largely passive - with maybe one or two minor interventions he basically let Talia do her thing and stuck to shooting the breeze with Cagalli and "Alex". That said, I do think that making him a butt monkey was a bad move and he could've been more interesting if that hadn't happened and he'd sort of stayed the slimy manipulator he came across as early on. Still would've been annoying as hell, but less so.

The Astray Trio (SEED) - Now the death of these three I believed where pointless and rushed. I really liked their characters, and thought they could have been developed a bit more maybe in Destiny or another Manga. /shakes head/
Oh, I agree. I really felt like they died for no other reason than because somebody had to, and it's a pity for two reasons: 1) They were really likable in their own right, especially Juri IMO. And 2) they were basically the only named grunt pilot characters on the cast, with most everyone else having some shiny prototype of some kind or another, and I liked that about them.
Plus I really feel like they could've been developed more than they were, and even one of them could've been especially useful as supporting cast in GSD - maybe having a friend to talk to after Athrun ran off to the PLANTs would've helped keep Cagalli from turning into such a spineless whiner.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by ShadowCell » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:40 pm

Yuna's buttmonkeyization started with the botched wedding. He wasn't commanding forces in the field when he sent Todaka and his homies to go kick the Minerva out of Orb in episode 12.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:42 pm

Deathzealot wrote:Dekim Barton (Wing:EW) - Hated him with a passion and think it was almost poetic that one of his own men shot him.
It's also ironic in that it's the same fate his son met before (being shot by the mechanic of Heavyarms which Trowa Barton himself was supposed to pilot)), which allowed "No Name"" to take the name, lol.

Deathzealot wrote:The Astray Trio (SEED) - Now the death of these three I believed where pointless and rushed. I really liked their characters, and thought they could have been developed a bit more maybe in Destiny or another Manga. /shakes head/
Yeah, only Juri got some extra time in the Astray story with her involvement with Lowe and commandeering the Red Frame briefly to test the OS.

Otherwise, you'd think they'd have at least gone down protecting Cagalli instead of randomly like they did.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:44 pm

Am I the only person here that doesn't hate Katz? Anyway, my list just consists of Azrael, his druggies, Ali, and the Trinity siblings.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Cardi Doorl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:00 am

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Am I the only person here that doesn't hate Katz?
Honestly, I just pitied him rather than hated him, if only because he reminds me so much of my younger brother.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by YazanGable » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:40 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Am I the only person here that doesn't hate Katz? Anyway, my list just consists of Azrael, his druggies, Ali, and the Trinity siblings.
While I find Katz's actions annoying, the more I look, the harder a time I have hating him.
Why? Cause he's a kid.
No. Really. Next time you look at his astoundingly naive world-view, or his deciding everyone else is wrong but him outlook, remember how old he is.
Gundam tends to spoil us a lot of the time with regards to the idea of youth. We regularly see young kids and teenagers forced to mature fast or die, so we look at them acting their age as a bad thing (come on, who hasn't made some post over the years about how pissy Amuro or Kamille are?)
So when we get someone who just acts their age and DOESN'T get a fast maturity forced on them, we think they're an idiot and hate them for doing...what really just comes naturally.

Quess is actually somewhat the same way. I certainly don't like her actions, but her behavior makes sense. She's the classic over-opinionated teen who studies up a bit on a subject (in her case, Newtypes,) then fancies herself an expert who knows better than anyone around her. Especially adults. This really shows in her conversations with Hathaway and Chein. She rattles off the info she did learn and as soon as she runs out of that, she starts getting frustrated with the latter.
Yes, she's annoying, but that's kind of the idea. A lot of kids go through that phase where they think they know better than everyone else. Eventually, the real world knocks that out of them...or they die.

Anyway, that's all for playing Devil's Advocate for the moment (though I might say something later regarding Reccoa and Sara. Just as a heads-up)

In terms of non-hating 'good deaths':
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Captain Gomez and the old men of the Reinforce Jr. Between the general idea of it and the way the scene is set up and plays out, their final charge is still one of the best points in Victory for me, as well as a high mark in Gundam in general.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:02 pm

The problem with your Katz argument is that nobody tried to tell him that what he was doing was wrong. Bright never Brightslapped him, actually I don't think anyone did. His stupidity ended up grating on the audience and ultimately got him killed, but for whatever reason, none of the other characters did anything about it.
Kamille on the other hand got slapped around all the time for doing stuff that Katz did?

Quess ends up being tragic, even though I hate her, because Char uses her instead of mentoring her.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by YazanGable » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:59 pm

Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:The problem with your Katz argument is that nobody tried to tell him that what he was doing was wrong. Bright never Brightslapped him, actually I don't think anyone did. His stupidity ended up grating on the audience and ultimately got him killed, but for whatever reason, none of the other characters did anything about it.
Kamille on the other hand got slapped around all the time for doing stuff that Katz did?
Actually, Katz DID get told he was wrong. On several occasions. Numerous people told him to get over his issues during the second wave of Axis talks, he got thrown in the brig for letting Sara escape, and Bright DID try to slap him at one point. People forget it happened cause Katz ducked the shot. Katz got a fair amount of verbal disciplining by Emma and Kamille, but he still kept at it because he was that determined he was right.
Well, that and, in the case of the whole "I'm gonna kill Haman and Scirocco!" stunt cause Char encouraged him...
...but then, to be honest, Char was a pretty terrible mentor.

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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:50 pm

Ah, sorry about that, I haven't seen Zeta in a while.
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Re: Gundam characters you're GLAD died

Post by Fiver » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:00 am

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Am I the only person here that doesn't hate Katz?
I pitied him, but didn't hate him.

The character I was most glad to see die was General Septem. The English voice actor was abominable and I was so glad I'd never hear the character again.

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