Spoiler
In one of the DS games can't you get an alternate ending where Natarle locks Azrael in the bridge and escapes? Wait, wouldn't that mean she'd die with Flay?
It might have been a Big Deal if Kira had grown up in PLANT instead of Orb, and if Murrue, Cagalli, and Lacus hadn't gotten to him first. Kira isn't the sort of guy (at this point) to care if he was supposed to be some superman. He is Kira Yamto, warrior for peace, and that's all that matters to him.Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:Another Big Reveal, our buddy Kira Yamato is a perfected Coordinator. And? Um, not much. Rau does the big shocker of revealing to Kira his origins and... so? Kira doesn't gain any new powers as a result of this.
Yeah, it seems like an explanation of predestination that Kira was badass because he was intended to be the Ultimate Coordinator. But, no one ever gave Kira a title or buildup or special treatment. If he is an Ultimate Coordinator, then he did it on his own. Probably all for the best, really. Imagine if Kira had gotten the star treatment, would he have been as sympathetic a character?It seems to ultimately have more to do with Rau than Kira, giving him another reason to want to judge humanity. And perhaps explain Kira's preternatural piloting ability. *shrugs* They coulda just made him a Newtype like Mu for all the good it does us.
Al Da Flaga gets no further mention in SEED history, which is a disappointment, given the prominent role his offspring play in the anime! I suspect that at most he was a prominent and wealthy EA man with a huge opinion of himself! He wanted his perfect-copy offspring of himself, and Dr. Hibiki used Flaga's morally questionable commission as a research testbed towards the Ultimate Coordinator project. If Hibiki is supposed to be a Dr. Frankenstein questing to make the perfect specimen of humanity, then does that make Rau the Monster?Who is Al Da Flaga really?
Given that Blue Cosmos hates Coordinators to such an extent, the existence of a Coordinator research facility with the taunting name of Mendel must have been a constant irritation. I suspect Mendel was a priority target, and they eventually did for the colony. Dr. Hibiki ignored all the threats and warning,s, and paid the price for it. Kira's adoptive mother took the infants and fled to a safe haven in a neutral power. Mendel remained abandoned because nobody wanted to rehabilitate a known target.Were they killed by Blue Cosmos?
I really don't know, which supports your reason for wanting some answers earlier in the story. The early revelation of the Mendel project (at least for Kira & Cagalli) might have been used to help underline the extremism of the war, instead of relying on platitudes.How was Lord Uzumi mixed up in this and how did he get the children? Why did he keep Cagalli and what made Kira's foster parents the best choice for keeping his secret?
Maybe you didn't realize it, but there is a time gap between Mendel and Boaz assault. I forgot the timeline, maybe few weeks or a month. EAF need quite some time to make those nukes, and plenty of time for Freedom to be repaired (maybe Junk Guild involved in providing spare parts for stolen MS? I'm not sure). And this also shows Fllay's resolve; she could just go back to earth if she wants to during time gap, but she chose to stay in Dominion, hoping to meet Kira. She took a risk just for that, she's really changed. And also note how she wear standard white Alliance uniform instead of her old pink one. I don't know if that means something, but my theory is that she took comm.officer training seriously, and passed the qualification test in order to board Dominion (and met Natarle's high standard). All for the sake of the chance to meet Kira and telling him her true feelings. Gotta respect her for that.Burke Rukes wrote: The Three Ships launch their mobile suits - and Freedom somehow has a brand new head. (Does the Freedom have a huge hidden compartment somewhere that stores lots of spare parts & limbs?) Freedom and Justice link up with some very, very, very cool looking mobile armor/weapon platforms called METEORs. I want a model of this. They look like, leaner, meaner, more stylish re-designs of the GP03 Dendrobium.
Ah, I see - I had no idea at all about any time gap. That would explain those things, certainly. I did notice Flay wearing a standard uniform on the Dominion, and just assumed that the situation was serious enough to require her to be in "all the way" with regards to the Earth Forces, not a half-serious volunteer in a hot pink non-standard uniform like many of the "traitorous, rebellious" Archangel crew.reeoyuy wrote:Maybe you didn't realize it, but there is a time gap between Mendel and Boaz assault. I forgot the timeline, maybe few weeks or a month. EAF need quite some time to make those nukes, and plenty of time for Freedom to be repaired (maybe Junk Guild involved in providing spare parts for stolen MS? I'm not sure). And this also shows Fllay's resolve; she could just go back to earth if she wants to during time gap, but she chose to stay in Dominion, hoping to meet Kira. She took a risk just for that, she's really changed. And also note how she wear standard white Alliance uniform instead of her old pink one. I don't know if that means something, but my theory is that she took comm.officer training seriously, and passed the qualification test in order to board Dominion (and met Natarle's high standard). All for the sake of the chance to meet Kira and telling him her true feelings. Gotta respect her for that.
Considering all the hate and controversy surrounding Destiny, I've already decided to take at least a couple days' break before starting into watching it. Seed has left me so very impressed, and with good feelings, that I just wanna hang onto it and savor it a bit longer before I experience Destiny (whatever -that- ends up holding for me).Black Knight wrote:Remember how hard it is to kill a major character in Seed? Keep that in mind when you go to Destiny. Destiny, alas, did a lot to cheapen...well, a great deal of the final episodes in Seed. Not that Seed itself shied away from cheapening some characters' actions by having them be not-dead-yet, so Flashback-'em-all at least gave those of us who watched Seed warning.
This is proof that SEED-Factor is not limited to Coordinators, as would be assumed given that the other three people to have SEED-drop moments in the show (Athrun, Kira and Lacus -- perhaps) are all coordinators.Burke Rukes wrote:The cute M1 Astray Orb pilot girls get killed. Cagalli gets angry at this, and she... has a seed-drop moment?! But she's a Natural! She quickly blows away a lot of enemies, but... why did that happen? Or is there more to Cagalli than we know...?
I wouldn't go quite THAT far, other than a bit of 'how is that even POSSIBLE', the certain character we're both thinking of was handled fairly well. The main problem with the series is that the main character is decidedly not the protagonist. When you get that into your head, Destiny is a much easier watch.Black Knight wrote:Remember how hard it is to kill a major character in Seed? Keep that in mind when you go to Destiny. Destiny, alas, did a lot to cheapen...well, a great deal of the final episodes in Seed. Not that Seed itself shied away from cheapening some characters' actions by having them be not-dead-yet, so Flashback-'em-all at least gave those of us who watched Seed warning.
It's not really a "communion" because they're having two independent conversations. In a post series interview, the director explained that those are all the things she wanted to say to him, but didn't get the chance to, and he can't hear her because she's a ghost. It doesn't look that way on the first watch, but if you notice he's just sad about things on his own and isn't directly responding to what she's saying.Burke Rukes wrote:Kira screams in anguish when Flay is killed... but he instantly has a "Newtype naked ghost communion" moment with her. Her spirit speaks to him, apologizing for what she did to him, because she was hurt and scared and clueless. But now she's finally free, and she can see and understand Kira clearly now. Kira cries, because he was unable to protect her in the end. But she says it's okay, that she will protect him with her feelings.
Are you out of coffee yet? Wow, you were really into the final five, it really made my day reading it. Glad you enjoyed it s so much!Burke Rukes wrote:At long last (okay, it's only been a few days since I started this, but hey! ), here's my review of the home stretch and finale, Episodes 46 through 50 of Gundam Seed!
Kira flubs his chance to be Big Damn Hero again, as his desire to rescue Flay ironically blinds him to danger. He quite loses his head over her. Kira really did mean to try again with Flay, since he never knew she was using him. However, it's not meant to be. Kira has met his soulmate, and it's not Flay. Interesting haow the overall story themes of unification and separation get played out in the interpersonal drama, ne?Flay screams for help on a general rescue broadcast channel, and saying she has a key that will help end the war.
Everyone who knows her is shocked to hear her voice. Kira remember the last time he saw Flay, promising to talk to her, so he rushes to rescue her. Natarle orders Calamity to retrieve the pod, so it's a race.
Yes, the data came to its intended destination, and it will lead to further pain and destruction later on in CE time. But that's for later.... The reunion between Natarle and Flay is touching, concerning its brevity. Flay is home at last...or at least recognizes someone from home.On the Dominion, Azrael's learned that Flay is the daughter of the late Vice Foreign Minister George Allster, and Flay gives the "key" data disc to her. When he asks where it came from, she says Commander Le Creuset gave it to her. Considering that Le Creuset and Azrael have collaborated together in the past, I'm assuming this disc landed in exactly the hands Le Creuset wanted it to. Flay's also surprised to see Natarle captaining the Dominion, and ends up crying in her arms.
Mu means that Rau was not conceived and raised to be his own person, but as a stand-in for another person's vicarious pleasure. Rau only attained his own identity, because of the physical defects in his clone body. Of course, that self-identity and self-awareness is embittered by perception of failure, magnified into malignant monomania and nihilism. So rau can be said to have no past (failed clone), no present (nothing/ no one to live for), and no future (kill all failed humanity).Murrue's in sickbay spending time with recovering Mu, looking at the photo album Le Creuset gave them back at Mendel Colony. Mu says his father was an arrogant and unreasonable man, who died when he was little, but he doesn't remember anything else of him. Mu's statement about Le Creuset having no past and no future, and perhaps not even an identity, is confusing.
Kira has lost another person in his life, and the hello/goodbye progression is taking its toll on him. The Flay situation also allows him to uncork all the bottled-up feelings resulting from the Mendel escapade. By this time in the series it seemed obvious that Lacus had completely fallen for Kira, and would have happily taken Flay's place in bed if it made Kira feel better. Kira doesn't want to go down that road gain, at least not until he can get some things straight. He and Lacus can take their time in romance, instead of hopping into the sack and dealing with the situation afterwards. (BTW the role reversal between clueless Cagalli and sensitive Athrun is good. )Kira wskes up, has a brief flashback of naked Flay kissing him when he sees Lacus. (Yeah, I'll be that was an awkward moment. Let's hope he doesn't call out Flay's name if he ever gets in the sack with Lacus. ) Kira tries not to cry, since he promised never to cry again. Lacus tells him it's okay, so he does cry, and cry hard. I'll admit, I cried a bit too during this scene. Kira's been through so much, and despite the drama he went through with Flay, his grief at being unable to rescue her is genuine, and I totally empathize with him.
This is the time-skip place, as indicated by your other respondents. CE never got a nicely arranged timeline like UC, so pegging down events in sequence while allowing for elapsed time is difficult. We the viewers are aware of elapsed time, but not the exact amount. To the casual viewer it must seem that SEED characters work marvels overnight.Nukes begin to be loaded on Earth Forces ships at the Lunar base, with a fleet ordered to take off and launch a direct attack on ZAFT's defense satellite Boaz... and the PLANT homeland.
Cool as a cucumber, that is Rau. It makes him a first-rate villain though, and a nice foil to the scenery-chewing Azrael.The assault on Boaz soon begins, a very ferocious battle. The Earth Forces are determined, and Le Creuset notices this and points it out to Zala, "wondering why" they're so bold now. What a good actor this snake is.
Natarle knows that escalation will be answered in kind by ZAFT, due to the N-Jammer deployment earlier in the war. Even if OMNI gans the victory here, thanks to Azrael the potential losses could make it a hollow one. Flay has seen the war progress, confronted Kira's possible death, seen the escalation from Yzak nd Rau's perspective, and now sees Azrael order & revel in the destruction she naively endorsed earlier. She is a sadder, wiser person now.Boaz is nuked. Azrael is happy. Natarle looks troubled. And Flay is saddened and shocked.
Note that Natarle is not giving Azrael's party line here, she is warning Flay that the end of the war will be slaughter, not battle. In her own way Natarle is trying to get Flay to stop the cycle of retribution. Flay is about ready to do so herself....Flay is upset, she says Le Creuset told her that the war would end. Natarle replies that it will - when every last enemy is destroyed. Sigh...
Lacus is saying that in spite of the TSA's good intentions, they are going to have to separate the battling sides by force. And all WMD must be destroyed, lest another blast leave hate-filled people eager for retribution."We declare peace, but with weapons in our hands." It's a very moving declaration of Lacus, though I'm not sure I totally understand (or even agree with) it. But I can't help hearing, "We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill!" when I think of this line.
Yes, the similarity to the Dendrobium Orchis armor mode is there...and not a coincidence. Both are supposed to be brute-force multipliers, with no room for subtlety. There is a 1/144 scale version, very expensive! IIRC a 1/550 version exists, nice looking, and it won't take up all your display space.Freedom and Justice link up with some very, very, very cool looking mobile armor/weapon platforms called METEORs. I want a model of this. They look like, leaner, meaner, more stylish re-designs of the GP03 Dendrobium.
Kira and Athrun just saved ZAFT's bacon, so Yzak owes them one in return, ne? Lacus's announcement reaches at least person, and Yzak responds with a will! He finally joins the TSA, and now its all of them against everyone else, with the clock running....Azrael doesn't care at all - he says it's time to get rid of Archangel once and for all, and orders nukes launched at them - which get shot down by the Buster and Duel! Looks like Yzak is finally taking the talk he had with Dearka to heart, and is taking matters into his own hands to do what he feels is right, not just blindly following orders and running on rage from humiliating defeats.
Somewhere the ghost of Gihren Zabi is applauding. Colony lasers are very appropriate final battle weapons!At Jachin Due, Zala wonders what Lacus is doing, but it doesn't matter, Genesis is ready to be activated. It's finally revealed to be a giant gamma ray laser satellite weapon, powered by a nuclear cartridge, hidden behind Jachine Due the whole time
Apparently Gihren Zabi is also ghost-writing Zala's speeches too.Zala gives a speech, responding to the EA's attempted nuking of the PLANTs. "This is no longer a war! This is a massacre!" He declares today the start of a new world, "of the new mankind, Coordinators!"
"What part about end the fighting did you people not understand?!" TSA can't show favorites here, based on their strategy.Kira intercepts the ZAFT pursuers, disabling to keep them from attacking retreating enemies.
To ask the question is to know the answer.Lacus asks, "Is it weapons that give birth to battles? Or is it the human soul?"
I was wrong earlier, this is Yzak's breaking point. Yzak may be a bastard, but he's an honest bastard who cares about the people serving under him, and alongside him. This sort of "let the little people pay while we elites clean up" attitude of Mama Dearest really rubs him the wrong way. He is no longer the smugly superior red coat who raged because he got scratched.Yzak meets his mother at Jachin Due. He thinks of his meeting with Dearka and the doubts he has, starts to ask Ezalia where the next target of Genesis will be, but is interrupted. She says she'll make sure Yzak's team is further back in a safer position, since he'll be busy with duties and responsiblities after the war. Yzak is troubled...
It's do-or-die time, down to the wire, clock is still running.... Everybody in the TSA knows it, and does the Big Goodbye scene. WAFF all around! I remember being very worried, because the death flag was being run up the pole. SEED at this point looked like it was gonna pull a Zeta and thin out the cast with a vengeance! Remember, it's a Gundam anime, and no one has immunity going into the final battle....no one. Why yes, I am a long-time UC fan, how can you tell?The Earth Forces' fleet's preparations are finished and they launch for their next assault.
This must be Rau's personal high point in the anime. Everything has gone to hell, both sides are in Ragnarok mode, and he gets to watch it from the cockpit of a Gundam. "It's the end of the world as we know it..."Le Creuset pops some pills then takes off... in a new Gundam, the Providence! I think it looks pretty neat, though at first I wondered what that big fat round thing with the pointy things sticking out of it was...
The final battle justifies my first-time fears, as people drop left and right in an Aboawaku-style brawl where death can approach from any angle.So much happens so fast that it's pretty much just a fast blow-by-blow right now.
Black Knight got there ahead of me, so I'll just support his reply.Cagalli gets angry at this, and she... has a seed-drop moment?! But she's a Natural! She quickly blows away a lot of enemies, but... why did that happen? Or is there more to Cagalli than we know...?
They are called Dragoons, and are regular remote weapons instead of being psychokinetically directed, but yeah, Rau has awesome guns. Awesome duel here, as are all the final fights.Mu in Strike versus Le Creuset in Providence, and the Providence has FUNNELS/BITS!
The answer is blowing in the wind.... The balancing act a moral government must walk to avoid aggression, while simultaneously defending itself from that aggression, and persuading other nations to deal with them via diplomacy and commerce instead of war, is not an easy one. Gundam anime likes to ask the serious questions, which is no small reason why I am a fan.Lacus watches the battle around her, and gives one of my favorite monologues of the entire series, questioning why humans fight, what sort of future humanity is fighting for. "Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood-stained hands? Well, is it?"
Major drama scene here, as comrades past and present die so others may live, and end the killing. Mu goes out in style as a hero; same for Natarle, who decides that Archangel will nicely solve the genocide dilemma. in the end, she is too much the professional officer to burn PLANT for no military reason, unlike the raving Azrael.Murrue orders all their mobile suits to go after Genesis while Archangel handles the Dominion. Mu's Strike is badly damaged by the Providence, and he returns to Archangel.
Another awesome fight! Kira and Athrun both get to confront their personal demons now.Providence attacks Archangel, launches its bits, and there's a BIG crazy, dramatic fight
Another big dramatic moment as Kira's win/win happy ending literally is blown up in his face. Poor Flay never gets to tell Kira how sorry she was for hurting him. Kira's hopes for reconciliation are broken along with his heart. He goes ballistic and goes for broke against Rau, who seems to have wanted it this way.During their big crazy battle, with the Freedom and its METEOR taking more and more damage, Kira, sees the escape shuttle with Flay inside.
Athrun knew after his previous visit to PLANT that the good man who was his father had been consumed by the war. Patrick Zala had looked into the abyss too long, and it had filled him up with unreasoning hatred and a desire to destroy that subsumed his original desire to protect PLANT. The nameless officer saved him further heartbreak from having to put his father down for the good of Coordinators as well as Naturals.Athrun looks shocked and grief-stricken, but... he seems to be holding it together, at least far better than Kira would. I think deep down, Athrun knew his father had this fate coming.
Lacus's broadcasting has paid off; her father's supporters have organized, and are now willing to call things off. Athrun uses a Gundam's self-destruct to good effect twice! Cagalli keeps him from using the second detonation as honorable suicide, and live on. His life will get better, especially if Cagalli and Kira are there to help him! Athrun chooses the happy end.but the control room is them stormed by soldiers accompanied by Eileen Canaver, the PLANT councilwoman who was a supporter of Siegel Clyne. Looks like the more sensible people have come to arrest the war criminals and their supporters.
We have a winner! It is the Three Ships, who stopped the slaughter and sent everyone home, to try this "peace" thing. Don't get too comfortable guys, a lot of people out there in PLANTs and EA haven't gotten the message yet, or need a remedial lesson....Eileen Canaver broadcasts intentions to start truce negotations with the Earth Forces and PLANT sponsor nations. Following this, the PLANTs Provisional Supreme Council will request that the Earth Forces stop all combat activities in restricted areas.
Happy ending all around! Glad you liked the anime and really got into it. Nice to see your Gundam spirit ahs revived!Athrun and Cagalli made it out together in the Strike Rouge (or what's now left of it) and are alive! Crying and hugging each other tight, they then see Birdy (what's Birdy doing there, where's Birdy been for... I don't know how long?) flying by. They move to follow Birdy... who leads them to Kira! Kira's still alive, floating away from the remains of the Freedom, with the ring Lacus gave him hanging on the string around his neck, floating up into his helmet faceplate. He sees Birdy coming towards him, followed by happy, tearful Athrun and Cagalli in the Strike Rouge. Kira's last words, and the last words of the series: "It's our world..."
I cried.