Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

[LightningCount]

Ceiling_Squid, you might be going too far into spoiler territory when talking about Destiny. It's not full-on spoilers, but it does give away a little bit by simple deduction. Maybe you should edit the part about Kira in spoiler tags?

Anyway, there's something important about ZAFT that hasn't been raised. From GundamOfficial.com, ZAFT is actually a militia, and not a full-on army. (spoiler free below)

ZAFT (ZODIAC ALLIANCE FREEDOM TREATY):The military forces of the PLANTs. ZAFT is a militia made up of civilian volunteers, and the organization has no formal rank structure, so its members are instead addressed by descriptive titles like "commander" and "captain." The ZAFT forces are organized into independent teams named after their commanders, and much like the modern-day U.S. Marines these teams can operate equally well on land, at sea, in air, or in outer space. Since ZAFT's membership is made up of genetically enhanced Coordinators, its forces are more than a match for the numerically superior Earth Alliance.

ZAFT was originally a political organization called the Zodiac Alliance, which was founded in C.E. 50 by Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala. The Zodiac Alliance took on its present name in C.E. 65, and three years later it was reorganized to become an explicitly military organization equipped with the revolutionary new weapons known as mobile suits. The ZAFT forces are currently subject to the authority of the PLANT Supreme Council, and report directly to the chairman of the National Defense Committee.

Since they are designed as a militia, I think that helps lend an explanation to their more simplified/less flashy uniforms. In addition, here is something from GundamOfficial.com that clears up the use of the name "Zodiac" (which made sense in Gundam Wing's OZ regarding the use of MS, but now finally makes sense for SEED, too. See below.)

Zodiac: A research colony located at Lagrange point 5. When George Glenn, the first Coordinator, returned from Jupiter in C.E. 29, this colony was chosen to host the investigation of the extraterrestrial fossil known as Evidence 01. Zodiac's extraterrestrial research organization soon grew into space's largest research facility, and the colony became a thriving center for space science. Its legacy is carried on by the PLANT settlements which now populate Lagrange point 5, and by the Zodiac Alliance - now known as ZAFT - which was created to fight for the economic and political independence of the PLANTs.

Lastly, I want to say that Duel Gundam's Armored Shroud upgrade that Burke noted always seemed to me like a shout-out to Gundam ALEX's armor from 0080.

[DuelGundam2099]

Lastly, I want to say that Duel Gundam's Armored Shroud upgrade that Burke noted always seemed to me like a shout-out to Gundam ALEX's armor from 0080.

It's more of a realistic homage to V2 Buster Assault Gundam.

[Zeonista]

Ceiling_Squid, you might be going too far into spoiler territory when talking about Destiny. It's not full-on spoilers, but it does give away a little bit by simple deduction. Maybe you should edit the part about Kira in spoiler tags?

Gotta agree. Let's all take this one SEED at a time, eh? No spoilers, use the tag, please.

ZAFT (ZODIAC ALLIANCE FREEDOM TREATY):The military forces of the PLANTs. ZAFT is a militia made up of civilian volunteers, and the organization has no formal rank structure, so its members are instead addressed by descriptive titles like "commander" and "captain." The ZAFT forces are organized into independent teams named after their commanders, and much like the modern-day U.S. Marines these teams can operate equally well on land, at sea, in air, or in outer space. Since ZAFT's membership is made up of genetically enhanced Coordinators, its forces are more than a match for the numerically superior Earth Alliance.

ZAFT was originally a political organization called the Zodiac Alliance, which was founded in C.E. 50 by Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala. The Zodiac Alliance took on its present name in C.E. 65, and three years later it was reorganized to become an explicitly military organization equipped with the revolutionary new weapons known as mobile suits. The ZAFT forces are currently subject to the authority of the PLANT Supreme Council, and report directly to the chairman of the National Defense Committee.

Well, I didn't remember that. If ZAFT is a militia instead of a standing army, it explains the lack of emphasis on rank and protocol, and the fluid nature of command and organization. It also explains why the children of leading citizens are involved, they are leading by example, and serving as dependable unit and sub-unit leaders to carry out policy for their parents who are involved in the government.

The militia structure might also account for the lack of strategic focus I mentioned in responding to Black Knight earlier. The general experience of the early U.S.A. 1776-1819, was that militia units were strong in defense, especially in their home state, but weak in taking the offensive, especially when the members of the militia units involved didn't feel the risk was worth the effort. The lack of military discipline and formal command structure made them fragile in prolonged battle, although ZAFT seems to have gotten past this weakness.

Zodiac: A research colony located at Lagrange point 5. When George Glenn, the first Coordinator, returned from Jupiter in C.E. 29, this colony was chosen to host the investigation of the extraterrestrial fossil known as Evidence 01. Zodiac's extraterrestrial research organization soon grew into space's largest research facility, and the colony became a thriving center for space science. Its legacy is carried on by the PLANT settlements which now populate Lagrange point 5, and by the Zodiac Alliance - now known as ZAFT - which was created to fight for the economic and political independence of the PLANTs.[/i][iquote]
This reference gives us an insight into ZAFT's reason for existence.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Yeah, it's a damn shame that EAF lost the capability to one-shot some more of the PLANTS, eh?

One wonders what preventing nuclear reactions on Earth's surface has to do with protecting the PLANTs parked at L5.

[Burke Rukes]

The military of the Earth Alliance is officially known as OMNI Enforcer. The acronym means something ridiculous, but it rolls off the tongue a little better than EFF or EFSF (European Financial Security Fund? What?)

Ah, okay. In the subtitles I only seem to see "Earth Forces" or "Earth Alliance Forces," etc. If the name "OMNI Enforcer" ever popped up, I've missed it. But then, I missed a couple other things, too, which I've now caught and will discuss in my post on Episodes 16 thru 20 (maybe later tonight or tomorrow? I've had a busy day today. ).

Agreement on the character designs. I generally hate the "pretty" standard anime characters with interchangeable faces that follow all of maybe three character models. It makes me really want to watch an anime where they actually deliberately diversify the character models. I suppose that finally a part of me has been sated in seeing Unicorn's older design aesthetic, but I'm still dissapointed that SEED started an unfortunate trend towards generic prettiness that carried well through Gundam 00.

This point occured to me quite suddenly yesterday as I was watching more episodes. Seed doesn't have any ugly people. The main cast are all very pretty, or at least average-looking in typical "attractiveness." Where are the ugly people? The older Gundam productions did have a diversity of looks in the character designs. Tall people, short people, skinny wirey people, fat people, people with "potato heads" and squishy faces... there's no believable diversity in the looks. It's so generically pretty, you're absolutely right.

You aren't going to run into them right now, but I think the main issue I (and every other viewer) has with SEED is the recycled footage. This doesn't get more prevalent until the latter half of the series, but you can just smell the stink of cut corners. I recall, quite clearly, the same conspicuous "dramatic zoom out and away' shot of the Buster Gundam firing it's combined beam-bazooka. Every. Damn. Time. The. Thing. Is. In. A. Fight.

Oh yes, I've noticed plenty of stock footage all over the place already, just 20 episodes into Seed. I know exactly the shot of the Buster you're talking about. While it would be nice to see more variety in footage, the truth is, these shows -are- made on a budget, and corners have to be cut. But it's nothing new - this sort of thing has been going on for decades. I've been watching mecha anime for over 25 years now, and frankly, I'm used to it. If seeing the same stock footage of the lions forming Voltron in every episode doesn't bug me, neither is the same shot of the Buster firing its BFG the same way every time, either.

Being a Coordinator is more than just being pretty, which is really only the accessories package of the Coordinator plan, sort of like a bonus feat. In the RPG sense, Naturals are random-rolled stats, luck of the dice on heredity. 4d6 & drop lowest for important characters, straight 3d6 for the fodder. Coordinators are point-build characters, with a base of 13 in all stats before points are added. As shown in the anime and the Astray side stories, not all Coordinators run to the same level of physical and mental ability, but as a whole they have an advantage over the Naturals by a range of 2-6, averaging +4 in stat bonuses...for starter characters. Yeah, that's a good enough stat boost to give them an edge on DC tasks or opposed rolls.

Pardon me while I ROFL at the coincidental timing of reading your post, Zeonista. As I write this, I'd -just- wrapped up a D&D gaming session. And I know exactly what you mean by all that stuff.

I'd like to say more about everyone's posts, there's just too much good stuff and not enough time to reply to it all. But I'm reading everything, and it's a real treat and very helpful in me understanding and enjoying this series for the first time. I still need to sort my notes on Episodes 16 thru 20, it takes a bit of time, but I hope to post later tonight or tomorrow on those episodes.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Ceiling_Squid, you might be going too far into spoiler territory when talking about Destiny. It's not full-on spoilers, but it does give away a little bit by simple deduction. Maybe you should edit the part about Kira in spoiler tags?

Apologies, getting a bit ahead of myself. Hard not to, I tend to take these things for granted given how old SEED is. I've went and just cut that from my post.

As about OMNI Enforcer, my brain is a bit fuzzy, but isn't that pretty much never mentioned by name in SEED? For such a cool-sounding name for the forces, I don't remember it ever being dropped that much in the show. And SEED does love it's extremely awkward bacrkonyms.

Oh yes, I've noticed plenty of stock footage all over the place already, just 20 episodes into Seed. I know exactly the shot of the Buster you're talking about. While it would be nice to see more variety in footage, the truth is, these shows -are- made on a budget, and corners have to be cut. But it's nothing new - this sort of thing has been going on for decades. I've been watching mecha anime for over 25 years now, and frankly, I'm used to it. If seeing the same stock footage of the lions forming Voltron in every episode doesn't bug me, neither is the same shot of the Buster firing its BFG the same way every time, either.

I guess with SEED being the first digitally-animated Gundam series, I would have thought they could have done more with the budget.

It may just be that I find this dissapointing in retrospect. Especially because the series that followed SEED and SEED Destiny, Gundam 00, recycled very little footage by comparison, and looked even nicer. Gundam certainly is no stranger to recylced footage in the past, but for some reason it just really stands out at me when I watch SEED, while for some reason I can excuse it in the older cel-animated shows.

Not exactly sure why.

[Izayuukan]

Apparently the budget of SEED was US$350,000 per episode. Sounds a lot to me, especially since many shows have to make do with US$60,000 - US$80,000 per episode. Makes me think that a bit too much money went on the music and not enough on getting animators to keep coming up with original footage.

The pink explosions became a running a joke with me and my friends. We didn't hate them, but they were conspicuous.

As for the copy-pasta character designs, Hisashi Hirai proved with Infinite Ryvius and to a lesser extent s-CRY-ed that he can mix things up a bit, so I am a bit disappointed in him. Granted though, shows like Fafner, Heroic Age and Linebarrels of Iron came out after SEED so they designs were fairly original in 2002. But, that still doesn't excuse how many of SEED's characters have the same face, nor does it excuse the near-universal prettiness. Even the Naturals are mostly beautiful or handsome.

[Burke Rukes]

Between everyone's great replies and comments, and other stuff going on, it's getting tougher to organize my notes for these reviews, but I finally got this round done for Episodes 16 thru 20.

This run introduces another major villain (if you can call him that): Andrew Waltfeld, ZAFT's "Desert Tiger." He's a capable soldier and leader, and he's eccentric and quirky. I can't help but like this guy a lot, even if at times I wanna smack him. He's a coffee fiend. He has a semi-serious, happy-go-lucky attitude. He has a sexy and mysterious... girlfriend? Aide? And his opinions about the war give me pause.

His Zoids (oops, I mean BuCUEs) and supporting forces launch an attack on the just-landed-on-Earth Archangel, giving the ship and its Strike Gundam defender a pretty tough time, only to be thwarted by the arrival of Cagalli and the local Resistance group, Desert Dawn. The Archangel makes a truce with the Resistance and goes with them to their secret frontline base. In the meantime, in retaliation Waltfeld launches a raid on one of the Resistance's hometowns, Tassil, warning the civilians to evacuate so they can burn out their supplies.

Waltfeld intrigues me. He goes out of his way to avoid directly harming civilians, even those who support the Resistance that opposes him. Yet, his actions leave a whole lot of people homeless and starving and baking in the sun (not to mention some inevitable injuries). Is this a war of attrition he's waging? Or is he just toying with them? Without the aid of the Archangel and its mobile weapons, the Resistance don't seem to have any chance of driving ZAFT from their homeland, no matter how doggedly determined they are.

And yet, later on when Waltfeld confronts Kira and Cagalli at his occupied home/HQ, he seems to indicate that he doesn't want this war to drag on. He wants it over with as quickly as possible (probably echoing the podium-pounding sentiments of Minister Zala). He strikes me as a more-or-less sensible, and even, at times, quite NICE guy, who doesn't want to be a war criminal and wants the conflict to end with as little bloodshed as possible. But he seems to enjoy his job, and his actions cause suffering beyond simple direct death. He intrigues me - and I'm not sure what to make of him. He's obviously Seed's equivalent of Ramba Ral, the older, experienced, charismatic enemy officer, but Waltfeld's cut from a very different cloth.

I have to mention the scene where Waltfeld meets Kira and Cagalli in the city face-to-face. Their arguing over what kind of sauce to put on their kebabs, and the ensuing messy chaos, is quite hilarious - not at all the sort of scene I'd have expected to see in this series so far, but it's good to have some silly fun once in a while. Which leads me to...

Cagalli's back! She's pretty charming, if one finds mysterious tomboys charming. A capable resistance fighter (her "goddess of victory" reputation seems well deserved), and quite a skilled potential Sky Grasper pilot, as well. The tall guy with the long dark hair and headband, the Rambo-looking guy, mentions Cagalli having a secret he knows about that she's keeping from her Desert Dawn friends. Perhaps she's a Coordinator? Or is it something else?

Her tomboyishness leads to some other good humor as well, when she and Kira are "guests" at Waltfeld's HQ/home. Her blowing bubbles in the bath is such a brief and silly thing, but points out how out of place she must obviously feel, being in a luxurious setting. (And, I'm sure, lost in thoughts of how to confront and maybe kill Waltfeld inside his own house.) Then when Aisha gets Cagalli all dolled up in a pretty dress and hairstyle, Kira's reaction is hilarious. As is Cagalli's reaction to Kira's reaction. No matter how she's dressed, she's not going to let anyone forget she's a tomboy.

I may be reading this wrong, but I also get the feeling that Cagalli may be attracted to Kira a little bit. At the very least, she seems to be becoming friends with him. If she is attracted to him, I wonder if it's partly because she may be a Coordinator herself? There's still plenty of mystery around this girl - who is her father, and what was that about her mentioning a betrayal in Episode 1? However, Kira has problems of his own...

Flay is sleeping with Kira. Whether this involves sex, who knows? I suppose it doesn't matter. She's throwing herself all over Kira, who's hurting so bad inside over what he's been going through and forced to do. She's using him and manipulating him so much, it's disgusting. Smothering Kira with kisses and affection and sleeping with him and possibly boffing him, just to give him the "strength to go on" or something like that - knowing she's leading Kira to a bad end. Kira probably does get some brief relief from his emotional pain with Flay's attentions, but it's only an emotional band-aid. The scene where he's hurting and exhausted, and she tries to jump him - frankly, I thought it looked like she was about to rape him - desperate to make him forget his problems and keep fighting, by using her body - and then he fights her off, was very powerful and disturbing. These two characters are pretty far down a bad road.

Kira's losing his innocence. I really feel sorry for him, much more so than I ever did for Amuro or Kamille. Those two Gundam leads had issues to begin with, and lashed out a lot, and thus made it not so easy for me to sympathize with him. Kira, on the other hand, is a good kid who's never meant anyone any harm or been angry at lousy parents or whatever. It's painful seeing what he's going through. When he slaps Cagalli and says, "What the hell can you protect with just your feelings?" and when Sai throws down the jealousy gauntlet and Kira gets all strong-and-fast-Coordinator on him, those were scary scenes, to see him lashing out like that.

I really hope he comes through this dark period soon and gets some happiness and purpose back in his heart...

How about some action and mecha talk for a bit? When I first saw the BuCUE's, all I could think of was, "Oh great. Zoids." But that first fight between them and the Strike showed how a 4-legged animal-shaped mobile suit would actually make sense in a desert dune environment. 4 legs are clearly superior to 2 when it comes to stability and movement on unstable, shifting sand dunes and such. My initial negative reaction to a Zoids looking MS quickly went away as soon as that first fight started. Fortunately, Kira did his reprogram-on-the-fly trick and the Strike made it through okay.

By the way, the BuCUEs seem to get a lot of CG animation love, whereas the Gundams seem to be exclusively hand-drawn. Not that the Gundam animation doesn't look good, it's actually fantastic. Do the Gundams and other mecha get the CG animated treatment later in this series?

The following battles involving the Strike vs. the BuCUEs are even better. Kira's learning and adopting to fighting both in Earth's gravity and the tricky terrain, and the stuff he pulls off is really awesome. Particularly that fight where he literally punches one BuCUE into the line of fire of the incoming shells from the Lesseps... and then takes out the other rounds with a single blast from the Strike Launcher. Speaking of that shot...

It occured in one of the episodes (11 thru 15) and it happened so quickly it didn't register in my head, but it happens again during that fight, and caught my attention. Right before that shot, there was a flash of, well, a SEED falling and disintegrating... and following that, Kira does the awesome shot. WHAT WAS THAT?! Was that a "Newtype awakening" thing?! Enquiring minds want to know!

And just -why- is this series called Gundam "SEED"? What is SEED an anacronym for? I know there's not a "Seed Gundam" in this series. Please don't answer, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure it has something to do with the falling, disintegrating seed thing. I'm just waiting for the surprise.

Episode 20 focuses on things at home among the PLANTs and ZAFT. Athrun's home for R&R and has a visit (certainly -not- a "date") with Lacus. Lacus was back to the strange mixture of nice & sweet, and too cute and too ditzy, that frankly baffles me. Her herd of Haros are just so incredibly annoying, and the way she interacts with them is equally so to me. Athrun's reaction to all the Haros understates my own: "But don't you think this is a bit of a nuisance?"

Athrun is clearly uncomfortable and uncertain around Lacus. There's no real love there, certainly not romantic anyway. At best he and Lacus are friends, who are hitched to be married (which, as we also learn in this episode, is common among Coordinators, because apparently having children is a -problem- for them...). Their awkward cheek-kisses when they part ways pretty much sums up their relationship.

When they're visiting, we learn more about Athrun & Kira's past, that they grew up together on the Moon from about age 4 or 5, until the war broke out and Athrun had to move with his father to the PLANTs. Lacus tells Athrun that she's quite fond of Kira - Athrun seems a bit shocked at this. I hope this isn't going to turn into some really awkward love triangle down the road - especially since Athrun and Lycus don't really love each other.

On the political front, things aren't so good among the PLANT/ZAFT leadership. Minister Zala continues beating the war drums, wanting to accelerate the war effort and bring it to a quick conclusion, because he thinks the Earth Alliance are a serious threat and cannot be trusted or negotiated with. Chairman Clyne, on the other hand, is the far more moderate voice of reason, and he seems interested in a diplomatic solution (though I could be wrong about this). Their argument about the war effort, and the whole Coordinators vs. Naturals situation looks like it'll eventually turn ugly. I can see some serious internal strife among them in the future. Unfortunately, public opinion seems to be behind Zala - who exposes his bigotry by saying Coordinators are different form of life from Naturals and they should not co-exist. The big question is, is he willing to let them exist separately? Or will he go the genocide route for the sake of some "Coordinator purity," sort of the counterpart to Blue Cosmos's violent anti-Coordinator racism?

Clyne's last line in that scene, after his big argument with Zala, holds a lot of truth: "We did not evolve, Patrick." How true this statement is - at least from a sociological/cultural standpoint. Coordinators may be genetically superior, smarter, stronger, faster, etc. (cue the "Six Million Dollar Man" sound effect here )... but they're susceptible to the same human follies of greed, jealousy, bigotry, ideology, etc. And they're killing their fellow humans (no matter their genetic makeup) over this nonsense. When it comes to the human spirit, Coordinators aren't evolved any more than Naturals.

And now for the BIG "wtf is that about?" moment near the end of Episode 20: Le Creuset waking up to a phone call... staggering in pain, falling out of bed, a HUGE bottle of pills on the nightstand, one of which he takes. (I guess this is the item of Le Creuset's beginning with the letter "P" from the recap episode that was pointed out to me. ) What's wrong with him?! (Please don't spoil it, folks! I'm just asking out loud here.)

And what's the meaning behind that line, "Go ahead and be conceited while you can, Patrick Zala." Hmm... Le Creuset's the "Char" of this series... he may be someone else operating under a false identity, for a revenge scheme. Just like Char. I'm going to take a wild guess here... and say that Le Creuset is a descendant of George Glenn. Perhaps out to get rid of people like Zala who have twisted and distorted the vision Glenn had for the future of humanity into this bigoted violent anti-Natural course they're currently on...

And now for the blitz of little things here and there I took note of:

The Sky Graspers look pretty good, except for that big, fat, round gun turret behind the cockpit. That just kills any aerodynamic look it would otherwise have, and it reminds me of the ugly G-Fighter from First Gundam.

Some Murrue Ramius goodness - because Ramius is hot! One brief scene of her in bed, looking very yummy but very sad, looking at a locket. Does it say R.I.P. on it? What is that locket about? Is it something to do with the dear, departed Admiral Halburten... or someone else? And Ramius has at least a couple of... bouncy scenes. Ramius is hot. And Mu La Flaga knows it, too.

So far the 2nd opening credits song isn't as catchy to me as the first one.

Yzak and Dearka have made it to Gilbraltar on Earth. Can't wait to see them return to plague Kira and company in some more Gundam-vs.-Gundam goodness.

Mu La Flaga is such a cool guy. He's practically a celebrity as the "Hawk of Endymion." He's not afraid to name-drop when people ask, but he's modest about it. It hasn't gotten to his head. He's such a good, likeable character.

If Sahib, the leader of the Desert Dawn Resistance group, considers the ZAFT and Earth Alliance forces to be the same, in terms of threat level or trustworthiness in terms of how they treat his country... why is he helping the Archangel crew?

The Archangel is starting to show some wear and tear. Hope they can hold out well until they reach Alaska. (I can't help but think of Alaska Base from Macross/Robotech. )

Why do the opening credits keep showing Cagalli and Athrun facing off, pointing firearms at each other? I can't help but think there's something big and important between them that we haven't seen yet.

Rather than being annoyed or upset with Natarle... this time around a couple of nice moments from her. Her giving the snack to the injured boy from burned-out Tassil was sweet of her. And her blushing and stammering to Kira when they drop him and Cagalli off in the city, trying hard not to call him out by his Ensign rank and give him away, was amusing. Despite all the hard-nosed, and even downright vicious, crap she's done until now, it's nice to see she's more than what she's been until now.

I'm looking forward to seeing more about Aisha, Andy Waltfeld's... girlfriend? Wife? Aide? His version of First Gundam's Hamon?

Evidence 01, the extraterrestrial "winged whale" fossil. Fascinating... I hope we learn more about this, and its place in the history of the Cosmic Era and current society.

Sai trying to prove to Flay he can be as good as Kira... by trying to drive the Strike, failing miserably, then getting thrown in the brig for it. Poor Sai. I get he's jealous and feeling betrayed. I want to feel sorry for him. But... eh. He needs to suck it up and move on. But that can be hard to do when he's stuck on the same ship as Evil Redhead Witch.

What was that that Athrun grabbed out of that cabinet/shelf at the end of Episode 20 as he was leaving to be deployed again...? Guess I'll find out soon.

That's it for now, my blurb on Episodes 21 thru 25 coming soon!

[Black Knight]

Pretty much all of your questions will be answered in the fullness of time, mostly in the next 10-15 episodes. After which, you'll have a slew of new questions, because answering some of the current ones just prompts more questions. Some of your thinking is on the right road, other things are not -- remember, this has many situations similar to UC Gundam, but it's definitely it's own show, moreso (arguably) than Destiny. So don't let parallels to UC situations be too close a guide; not everyone is what they appear.

The only thing I will answer is about Evidence 01. You've pretty much seen everything they bring up about it. It's one of the biggest dropped plot threads in the show, and though it'll appear from time to time, there's really nothing much else to learn about it.

[Kenji]

Burke, I've been enjoying your musings. It reminds me of something I totally missed out on: The opportunity to watch SEED without any foreknowledge of what was gonna happen. It also reminds me that the audience's imagination is the indispensable key to entertainment.

Keep on with your reviews and notions! This is once-in-a-lifetime, 'cuz once the secrets are revealed, they're revealed forever.

[Sume Gai]

beyond evidence 01 there is one other question that never gets quite spelled out between either series...

Right before that shot, there was a flash of, well, a SEED falling and disintegrating... and following that, Kira does the awesome shot. WHAT WAS THAT?! Was that a "Newtype awakening" thing?! Enquiring minds want to know!

You should get a name for this before episode 30 or so, (Silly acronym a-go!) though the character explaining it stops before ever offering us any real details and it is never spoken of again, here or in the sequel. I will say it is not a newtype flash (though you should have seen one of those between Rau and Mu in the first episode) which does get explained in a way.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Yeah, it is pretty fun to see someone's impressions of Gundam SEED for the first time. Now, I do like SEED, I really do. I believe it was the second full length series I watched after Wing (never saw 0079 or G when they were on Toonami). It has its flaws yeah, and I do think that 00 (BOTH seasons thank you very much and the movie) is the superior entry but SEED is still fun. I actually do like Kira as a protagonist, I think some of his weaknesses get a little TOO played up in the fandom at time (talking SEED not Destiny). Hey if I was thrust into a war and had to be a de facto soldier, it'd screw with my emotions, sure. Far and away my absolute favorite characters are Murrue and Cagalli. Murrue because she's beautiful, a good leader (though not the greatest tactician) and, for some odd reason, (insert sarcasm here) never seems to where a bra.[/in-joke]
Cagalli is... well that would spoiling it. Suffice to say, she's awesome. Though would someone please explain how she got from Heliopolis in episode 1 to the African desert and why you-know-who didn't have Kisaka drag her back?

Also, I quite like Flay for the psycho girlfriend bent. I thought that was a neat plot point in those early episodes.

BTW IIRC OMNI Enforcer's full name is Oppose Militancy and Neutralize Invasion Enforcer. As you can see, a lot of the acronyms in SEED are pretty goofy, one of the minuses to the series in my opinion.

And I declare the Strike to be a Big Damn Hero!

And now you've gone an posted consarnit!

I have to mention the scene where Waltfeld meets Kira and Cagalli in the city face-to-face. Their arguing over what kind of sauce to put on their kebabs, and the ensuing messy chaos, is quite hilarious - not at all the sort of scene I'd have expected to see in this series so far, but it's good to have some silly fun once in a while. Which leads me to...

This is one of my fav scenes too.

Cagalli's back! She's pretty charming, if one finds mysterious tomboys charming. A capable resistance fighter (her "goddess of victory" reputation seems well deserved), and quite a skilled potential Sky Grasper pilot, as well. The tall guy with the long dark hair and headband, the Rambo-looking guy, mentions Cagalli having a secret he knows about that she's keeping from her Desert Dawn friends. Perhaps she's a Coordinator? Or is it something else?

You'll see.

I may be reading this wrong, but I also get the feeling that Cagalli may be attracted to Kira a little bit. At the very least, she seems to be becoming friends with him. If she is attracted to him, I wonder if it's partly because she may be a Coordinator herself? There's still plenty of mystery around this girl - who is her father, and what was that about her mentioning a betrayal in Episode 1? However, Kira has problems of his own...

Flay is sleeping with Kira. Whether this involves sex, who knows? I suppose it doesn't matter. She's throwing herself all over Kira, who's hurting so bad inside over what he's been going through and forced to do. She's using him and manipulating him so much, it's disgusting. Smothering Kira with kisses and affection and sleeping with him and possibly boffing him, just to give him the "strength to go on" or something like that - knowing she's leading Kira to a bad end.

Such an interesting theory on Kira and Cagalli. Oh boy, you just wait, this'll really knock your socks off! And yes, Kira and Flay are having sex, many much sex.

Spoiler

It gets elaborated on in the Special Editions. Speaking of, if I'm reading the reactions correctly in the SE, it was Flay's first time when she and Kira were together. If so, it adds a whole new level to her psychosis if she was willing to sacrifice her virginity to control Kira.

It occured in one of the episodes (11 thru 15) and it happened so quickly it didn't register in my head, but it happens again during that fight, and caught my attention. Right before that shot, there was a flash of, well, a SEED falling and disintegrating... and following that, Kira does the awesome shot. WHAT WAS THAT?! Was that a "Newtype awakening" thing?! Enquiring minds want to know!

And just -why- is this series called Gundam "SEED"? What is SEED an anacronym for? I know there's not a "Seed Gundam" in this series. Please don't answer, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure it has something to do with the falling, disintegrating seed thing. I'm just waiting for the surprise.

Not a Newtype thing, something else. As for SEED, it's explained later.

Her herd of Haros are just so incredibly annoying, and the way she interacts with them is equally so to me. Athrun's reaction to all the Haros understates my own: "But don't you think this is a bit of a nuisance?"

*grinds teeth loudly* Agreed.

Clyne's last line in that scene, after his big argument with Zala, holds a lot of truth: "We did not evolve, Patrick." How true this statement is - at least from a sociological/cultural standpoint. Coordinators may be genetically superior, smarter, stronger, faster, etc. (cue the "Six Million Dollar Man" sound effect here )... but they're susceptible to the same human follies of greed, jealousy, bigotry, ideology, etc.

Anyone else think Clyne and Zala are Professor X and Magneto?

And now for the BIG "wtf is that about?" moment near the end of Episode 20: Le Creuset waking up to a phone call... staggering in pain, falling out of bed, a HUGE bottle of pills on the nightstand, one of which he takes. (I guess this is the item of Le Creuset's beginning with the letter "P" from the recap episode that was pointed out to me. ) What's wrong with him?! (Please don't spoil it, folks! I'm just asking out loud here.)

Ah the Mystery Pill-Popping Disease, gottaloveit.

Some Murrue Ramius goodness - because Ramius is hot! One brief scene of her in bed, looking very yummy but very sad, looking at a locket. Does it say R.I.P. on it? What is that locket about? Is it something to do with the dear, departed Admiral Halburten... or someone else? And Ramius has at least a couple of... bouncy scenes. Ramius is hot.

Yes indeed! Though I wish they didn't use her for so much boner fodder. My paradigm has shifted and I'm pretty sure that the nude ghost in the opening is Murrue (no way that bust is Flay's). Which begs the question of why that silhouette is with a silhouette of Kira's face? And I really don't remember this being said out loud in the series but the locket is the memento of her dead boyfriend who was a Mobile Armor pilot.

Rather than being annoyed or upset with Natarle... this time around a couple of nice moments from her. Her giving the snack to the injured boy from burned-out Tassil was sweet of her. And her blushing and stammering to Kira when they drop him and Cagalli off in the city, trying hard not to call him out by his Ensign rank and give him away, was amusing. Despite all the hard-nosed, and even downright vicious, crap she's done until now, it's nice to see she's more than what she's been until now.

I never did get why she blushed.

Sai trying to prove to Flay he can be as good as Kira... by trying to drive the Strike, failing miserably, then getting thrown in the brig for it. Poor Sai. I get he's jealous and feeling betrayed. I want to feel sorry for him. But... eh. He needs to suck it up and move on. But that can be hard to do when he's stuck on the same ship as Evil Redhead Witch.

You gotta listen to Chris's "interpretation of this moment!

BTW is Aisha Andy's wife or just GF?

[Dark Duel]

Andrew is and remains my all-time favorite ZAFT character in Gundam SEED.

Not a Newtype thing, something else. As for SEED, it's explained later.

Eh, not really. There's a bit of empty rhetoric spouted here and there and

Spoiler

we get to find out what "SEED" is an acronym for, but IIRC there never was a truly concrete explanation of what it was beyond a random deus ex machina

GundamOfficial provided a definition, but it remains maddeningly unhelpful:

Spoiler

Superior Evolutionary Element Destined(SEED) factor
A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator.

Doesn't really tell us a whole lot about exactly what it is. IIRC a comparison is made to the Berserkers of Norse mythology in the series, but it's not entirely accurate

And just -why- is this series called Gundam "SEED"? What is SEED an anacronym for? I know there's not a "Seed Gundam" in this series.

Spoiler

Thankfully Gundam SEED is one of those few entries in the franchise whose title does NOT correspond to the name of any Gundam. If it did, it'd be the stupidest Gundam name EVER, and that's including the goofy crap G Gundam came up with - including the dubbed version.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

GundamOfficial provided a definition, but it remains maddeningly unhelpful:

Spoiler

Superior Evolutionary Element Destined(SEED) factor
A factor that determines the course of a species' evolution. The existence of the SEED factor has yet to be proven, and it remains a subject of intense controversy in scientific circles. But in theory, those who possess the SEED factor have the ability to advance to the next stage of human evolution - an ability unrelated to whether the carrier is a Natural or a Coordinator.

I just wasn't sure if I wanted to spoil the name of the acronym for Burke.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

It occured in one of the episodes (11 thru 15) and it happened so quickly it didn't register in my head, but it happens again during that fight, and caught my attention.

It first happens in episode 11, right before Kira unleashes the ass-kickings on Yzak that result in his scarring. The next time it happens is episode 16, when he's protecting the Archangel from the Lesseps' incoming fire while simultaneously dealing with BuCUEs. It's more frequent after that, appearing again in episode 18 when he's fighting Waltfeld himself. After that... I can't remember, because my own rewatch-and-notes-taking hasn't gotten past episode 20.

Athrun is clearly uncomfortable and uncertain around Lacus. There's no real love there, certainly not romantic anyway. At best he and Lacus are friends, who are hitched to be married (which, as we also learn in this episode, is common among Coordinators, because apparently having children is a -problem- for them...). Their awkward cheek-kisses when they part ways pretty much sums up their relationship.

I wouldn't say that. Athrun is clearly something of a stoic -- he doesn't express his emotions well, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Recall that the most passionate we've seen him in the series up until this point is when Natarle reveals that they have Lacus aboard the Archangel -- "What monsters you are!!". I think that Athrun does have legitimate romantic feelings for Lacus, but a combination of his naturally subdued personality, general war-weariness, and not a little awkwardness (he's sixteen, recall) mean that it's not exactly obvious. I would agree that theirs isn't a passionate relationship, but that doesn't mean that they don't love each other.

On the subject of the arranged marriage, that's more a comment on contemporary Japanese culture than it is anything in CE. In Japan, the birth rate has dipped below the replacement rate (meaning that their population is shrinking as more people die than are born) because people are getting married and having kids later and/or not at all. The "Coordinators have trouble having children" thing isn't really touched upon any more than what you've already seen.

[Zeonista]

Ceiling_Squid: The official name for OMNI Enforcer is used in formal scenes and background materials in SEED, but few of the characters use it in daily speech. So we get a lot of renpou (Federation) in the dialog. I use the term a lot to keep CE and UC Federation organizations distinct in my own references.

Izayuukan: As Burke has said, we old-timers in mecha anime are inured to stock footage. In SEED, at least, it is present at a reasonable level, and the seasonal halves progress at a reasonable rate, on time and on budget. Which for Sunrise these days, is pretty good! About the everybody-is-cute/beautiful character design, Burke missed out on that phenomenon, which occurred during his absence from anime. I don't know where it came from, but for a while it was rare to see non-pretty people in a lot of anime. At least SEED justifies it a little with Coordinators, and the Naturals do have some people who didn't get the genetic lottery rigged in their favor.

Burke: I've been a gamer nerd too long, I can make an explanation about anything that happens in a show in RPG terms.

. He has a semi-serious, happy-go-lucky attitude. He has a sexy and mysterious... girlfriend? Aide?

Zeon and ZAFT leaders get to have snugglebunny assistants and aides de camp. Federation leaders get held at arms' length or accused of sekuhara. I like pointing that out every so often.

His Zoids (oops, I mean BuCUEs)

Dude!

giving the ship and its Strike Gundam defender a pretty tough time, only to be thwarted by the arrival of Cagalli and the local Resistance group, Desert Dawn.

Reality rears its ugly head as Strike's feet sink into the soft African sand. Kira has the necessary modifiers programmed into it by the next battle, though. One beating is enough, ne?

And yet, later on when Waltfeld confronts Kira and Cagalli at his occupied home/HQ, he seems to indicate that he doesn't want this war to drag on. He wants it over with as quickly as possible (probably echoing the podium-pounding sentiments of Minister Zala). He strikes me as a more-or-less sensible, and even, at times, quite NICE guy, who doesn't want to be a war criminal and wants the conflict to end with as little bloodshed as possible. But he seems to enjoy his job, and his actions cause suffering beyond simple direct death. He intrigues me - and I'm not sure what to make of him. He's obviously Seed's equivalent of Ramba Ral, the older, experienced, charismatic enemy officer, but Waltfeld's cut from a very different cloth.

This episode really won me over. Waltfeld embodies the Gundam credo that its factions are not monolithic masses. He is the enemy ace and leader who wants to do his duty, but doesn't want to do more damage than is required, sort of the way the hero wants everyone on his side to be like. The Ranba Ral vibe is intentional, as Waltfeld is sort of like Ral might be like if he hadn't been ground down by events.

I have to mention the scene where Waltfeld meets Kira and Cagalli in the city face-to-face. Their arguing over what kind of sauce to put on their kebabs, and the ensuing messy chaos, is quite hilarious - not at all the sort of scene I'd have expected to see in this series so far, but it's good to have some silly fun once in a while.

Unlike most Gundam series (and mecha anime in general), SEED's comic interludes are genuinely funny and tension-breaking. Perhaps it is because the situations are not forced, but seemingly spontaneous, and that Kira (unlike most every other Gundam hero) has a genuine sense of the absurd. That being said, the whole "sauce" scene was a classic for the show. The SEEd cell phone club 4-komas had much fun mocking it.

Then when Aisha gets Cagalli all dolled up in a pretty dress and hairstyle, Kira's reaction is hilarious. As is Cagalli's reaction to Kira's reaction. No matter how she's dressed, she's not going to let anyone forget she's a tomboy.

Kira's artlessly sincere reaction sells her hyper-defensive reaction, another comic triumph. There is a reason Cagalli hates to dress up, and you will get it soon...

Flay is sleeping with Kira. Whether this involves sex, who knows?

Oh no, we know they did the wild thing. Flay seduced Kira after the shuttle incident, and got him "motivated" to go fight for her. It was a shocker at the time. Sure, it's implied sometimes that a Gundam hero may be "getting some" from a lover, but SEED was the first Gundam anime to put it out in the open like that. And for such motives, too! The national PTA of Japan was not amused!

When he slaps Cagalli and says, "What the hell can you protect with just your feelings?" and when Sai throws down the jealousy gauntlet and Kira gets all strong-and-fast-Coordinator on him, those were scary scenes, to see him lashing out like that.

Yeah, when an anime hero decries the power of the heart, you know he's hurting bad. The whole showdown over Flay was a loser for both guys, and reflected pporly on her to boot.

I really hope he comes through this dark period soon and gets some happiness and purpose back in his heart...

There are two characters who definitely have that in mind for Kira, in different ways.

And just -why- is this series called Gundam "SEED"? What is SEED an anacronym for? I know there's not a "Seed Gundam" in this series. Please don't answer, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure it has something to do with the falling, disintegrating seed thing. I'm just waiting for the surprise.

Te story will both have a lot and very little to say about it. YMMV

Episode 20 focuses on things at home among the PLANTs and ZAFT. Athrun is clearly uncomfortable and uncertain around Lacus. There's no real love there, certainly not romantic anyway.

Athrun is definitely not a ladies' man! His social station makes is difficult to make real friends, and he lacks Lacus's outgoing nature. Yeah, it's awkward, but at least they are friends.

At best he and Lacus are friends, who are hitched to be married (which, as we also learn in this episode, is common among Coordinators, because apparently having children is a -problem- for them...).

This is an open admission in the story that PLANTS has not solved all their problems by being exclusively Coordinator. This is a particularly large elephant in the colony, so to speak.

On the political front, things aren't so good among the PLANT/ZAFT leadership. Minister Zala continues beating the war drums, wanting to accelerate the war effort and bring it to a quick conclusion, because he thinks the Earth Alliance are a serious threat and cannot be trusted or negotiated with. Chairman Clyne, on the other hand, is the far more moderate voice of reason, and he seems interested in a diplomatic solution (though I could be wrong about this).

The story up to now has generally shown only the negative side of the EAF. here we see the discord over strategic pplicy in PLANTS, and the potential for a dangerous situation. Chairman Clyne would like an armistice to let things cool down before a further round of irrevocable acts pushes both sides towards apocalypse. Zala is rightly afraid that Blue Cosmos and jealous EAF politicos will not let PLANTS stay at peace, but he also overlooks his own role in taking the war to Earth. Nietzche warned would-be "progressive" crusaders not to adapt their enemies' methods in their desire to do good on behalf of The Cause. Zala has gazed into the proverbial abyss too long, and now the intolerant stance of Blue Cosmos is reflected in his eyes.

Clyne's last line in that scene, after his big argument with Zala, holds a lot of truth: "We did not evolve, Patrick." How true this statement is - at least from a sociological/cultural standpoint.

How sadly true it is, and it points out the sad truth that people cannot be made to change for the better, even on the genetic level. They have to understand and want the need to change themselves, to make it genuine. Any attempt to force the issue, to pull or push people along instead of inviting them to take one's hand, will meet resistance. Zala wants to lead PLANTS to safety and a secure future, but he is failing to account for human weakness, his own included. Somewhere the ghost of Gihren Zabi smiles in anticipation...

And Ramius has at least a couple of... bouncy scenes. Ramius is hot. And Mu La Flaga knows it, too.

If this was an American show Murrue would have an underwire from Lane Bryant strong enough to pull a trailer. But since this is from Japan, she has no support, so to speak. That's the honest truth!

The Archangel is starting to show some wear and tear. Hope they can hold out well until they reach Alaska. (I can't help but think of Alaska Base from Macross/Robotech. )

Funny how you should make that comparison...

[LightningCount]

His Zoids (oops, I mean BuCUEs)...How about some action and mecha talk for a bit? When I first saw the BuCUE's, all I could think of was, "Oh great. Zoids." But that first fight between them and the Strike showed how a 4-legged animal-shaped mobile suit would actually make sense in a desert dune environment...My initial negative reaction to a Zoids looking MS quickly went away as soon as that first fight started. Fortunately, Kira did his reprogram-on-the-fly trick and the Strike made it through okay.

Yeah, I thought they fit just fine in context and were another badge of honor for SEED's mecha, distinguishing its battle scenarios from other series. Props for the guts of the creators. There was obvious Zoids influence (the earlier 3-part armor/backpack/color parallel makes me wonder if there was a Zoids fan in the staff), but it works in a Gundam setting, too. (As an aside, Aisha looks a lot like the Tasker Sisters from Zoids season 3...there is a certain Zoids design sensibility that pops in and out in SEED). And honestly, I want to go out on a limb here and say that Zoids, at least in terms of seasons 1-3 (Chaotic Century, Guardian Force, New Century Zero), are fun and amazing mecha series that don't get the credit they deserve. While the third season is more along the lines of G-Gundam (or the newer IGPX), the first two seasons' coming-of-age war story/quest are like a unique mix of Gundam 0079 and Gundam X with supernatural overtones along the lines of Evangelion or RahXephon. I was highly skeptical of Zoids before I sat and watched the whole thing, and then I got hooked. Plus, we can thank the Zoids anime for helping to pioneer the cel-shaded CG that has become so popular in recent years (and you saw that technology evolve over the course of the first 3 Zoids seasons). They switched animation studios after that, and I saw enough of Zoids: Fuzors (season 4) to know it was terrible. Haven't seen enough of Zoids: Genesis (season 5) to know either way, but the CG appears to be not cel-shaded or as well done.

By the way, the BuCUEs seem to get a lot of CG animation love, whereas the Gundams seem to be exclusively hand-drawn. Not that the Gundam animation doesn't look good, it's actually fantastic. Do the Gundams and other mecha get the CG animated treatment later in this series?

Personally, I like the mix over full CG on every mechanical thing. Usually allows for a bit more exaggeration and style (in posing ala the Buster's cannon move) when its hand-animated. SEED and Destiny both experiment with CG mecha, but it's never a main thing across the board and it isn't used on the Gundams to my memory. Gundam 00 does even less experimenting with CG when it comes to mecha, but boosts up the hand-drawn animation to incredible levels by TV standards.

The following battles involving the Strike vs. the BuCUEs are even better. Kira's learning and adopting to fighting both in Earth's gravity and the tricky terrain, and the stuff he pulls off is really awesome. Particularly that fight where he literally punches one BuCUE into the line of fire of the incoming shells from the Lesseps... and then takes out the other rounds with a single blast from the Strike Launcher.

Oh, yeah. This stretch of episodes has some of my favorite fight choreography to this point. When Kira does that boost-powered backflip in the Strike to kick up a cloud of sand, that was awesome. Gundam 00, while the animation on the whole is probably better, doesn't seem to have this consistent sense of stylized, creative battle choreography made famous by G and Wing. (Even if some of it comes from stock footage).

Right before that shot, there was a flash of, well, a SEED falling and disintegrating... and following that, Kira does the awesome shot. WHAT WAS THAT?! Was that a "Newtype awakening" thing?! Enquiring minds want to know! ...And just -why- is this series called Gundam "SEED"? What is SEED an anacronym for?

You'll get one interpretation from Mu soon, and other vague statements by others. I thin kthe acronym comes out in one of the recap/clip episodes, so pay attention to those. Usually the acronyms come out on in-show computer screens, whether its OMNI or GUNDAM, etc. Unfortunately, outside of GundamOfficial.com, it never gets the explicit explanation one would like. It sort of makes sense from that websites definition, but one would like a little more. If I'm not mistaken, I think I heard it gets a mention in a new scene within the SEED Destiny compilation movies. If Destiny's theatrical sequel hadn't been put into development hell, maybe we'd have gotten a better on-screen answer.

You mentioned Andrew's abode scene, Kira x Flay x Sai, Mu's handling of himself, the PLANT home life of Nicol and Athrun, the coy "water" and daily dealings with the rebels, etc...This is the sort of humanity I was talking about, or as you put it, "spontaneity," that only a handful of Gundam series get right, and SEED's one of them. It really makes the world more grounded and draws you into the characters to care about them.

I'd add Andrew to Mu and Rau as big highlights to the SEED series (I'll have another, less discussed character to add to that list in a few episodes--but I'm pretty against the grain in liking this person). And again, notice how this desert section mixes jeeps, helicopters, BaCues, Gundams, Skygraspers, ships, etc...This is the kind of battlefield diversity that plays well with tactics and visual scale--another thing that only a handful of Gundams do consistently.

And now for the BIG "wtf is that about?" moment near the end of Episode 20: Le Creuset waking up to a phone call... staggering in pain, falling out of bed, a HUGE bottle of pills on the nightstand, one of which he takes. (I guess this is the item of Le Creuset's beginning with the letter "P" from the recap episode that was pointed out to me. ) What's wrong with him?!(Please don't spoil it, folks! I'm just asking out loud here.)...And what's the meaning behind that line, "Go ahead and be conceited while you can, Patrick Zala." Hmm... Le Creuset's the "Char" of this series... he may be someone else operating under a false identity, for a revenge scheme. Just like Char. I'm going to take a wild guess here... and say that Le Creuset is a descendant of George Glenn. Perhaps out to get rid of people like Zala who have twisted and distorted the vision Glenn had for the future of humanity into this bigoted violent anti-Natural course they're currently on...

That's the "P" for "pills" I was hinting at. I thought they showed them in his drawer on his desk in a small case in the earlier clip episode as well (but maybe I'm wrong). Trying to figure out Rau is a lot of fun. He's a masked character that rises beyond his animated facade, IMO. Maybe you're on the right track, but maybe you're not. (To this day, there seems to be a few questions I have about him).

The Sky Graspers look pretty good, except for that big, fat, round gun turret behind the cockpit. That just kills any aerodynamic look it would otherwise have, and it reminds me of the ugly G-Fighter from First Gundam.

The Skygraspers aren't the prettiest, but the way they're used, much like the Mobius Zero, give another unique twist to Gundam SEED's combat. Never before in the Gundam series have fighter craft/mobile armors been this important to the heroes' arsenal. Empowering people like Mu with something other than an MS beyond what was done with Ryu in 0079 is refreshing.

So far the 2nd opening credits song isn't as catchy to me as the first one.

3rd credits might be my favorite. (Though the first are very good, too).

The Archangel is starting to show some wear and tear. Hope they can hold out well until they reach Alaska. (I can't help but think of Alaska Base from Macross/Robotech. )

Ha! I thought the same thing!

Evidence 01, the extraterrestrial "winged whale" fossil. Fascinating... I hope we learn more about this, and its place in the history of the Cosmic Era and current society.

Sadly, never becomes a big element. It is more of a plot device/symbol to justify mankind's meddling with nature/genetics through Coordinators, since there is one social theory out there that says the existence of ETs would undermine moral authority. But the more I think about it, if you think of it that way, it's an important part of the plot that really syncs up well with certain characters' philosophies in a literary way. However, this essentially dropped side element did potentially have other ramifications, but I can't say any more than that.

On one last, unrelated note, reading your comments, I am reminded of this feeling I get that SEED's building blocks were 0079 and Wing, with a dash of Macross. It certainly has its own identity beyond this, which should become more apparent as the episodes go on, but its use of five powerful, stylish, iconic Gundams and more on-screen, blatant political debates, as well as certain character/world elements (I won't point out) seem to have a Wing tone/pedigree, while its ZAFT vs. Federation setup and certain story arcs echo 0079, and its emphasis on ship drama, the presence of a singing pop star, elements like Alaska Base, and a fighter pilot mentor echo Macross. Honestly, this was a really smart idea, using these three series as a base for a new Gundam series meant to capture a new audience while resurrecting Gundam after a few years off the air. It's not a proven fact or anything, but it's my impression. There are obviously other Gundam series/OVAs referenced in this series (that I won't mention, except to say I wonder if you'll pick up on something I picked up on in episode 24), but I saw those three noted to be the most important ones as initial building blocks.

I wish I had been less on-guard and critical of SEED when first watching it (I had such expectations and its character designs also through me off). I eventually enjoyed it, but I could have enjoyed it more along the way. But then, I really had a good time rewatching it years later in retrospect, so it's all good.

[Burke Rukes]

I still need to do some catch-up reading on everyone's posts since I put my review for episodes 16 thru 20 up yesterday. In the meantime, here we go, with episodes 21 thru 25!

Episode 21 wraps up the African desert conflict against the Desert Tiger, Andy Waltfeld. He gets some reinforcements in the forms of some R-44 Guntank-looking ZuOOTs (whose designs I rather like), the arrival of Yzak's Duel Gundam and Dearka's Buster Gundam, and a few extra ZAFT land battleships. Waltfeld and his girlfriend/wife/aide/bootygirl/whatever Aisha take command in the red LaGOWE, a more powerful and advanced version of the BuCUE (not crazy about the BuCUE's looks, and the same goes for the LaGOWE). Oh, and Waltfeld's tiger-themed pilot suit looks... both cool and silly. I shouldn't be too surprised, considering the eccentricity of his character.

Yzak is not happy about being forced to hang back, and when he and Dearka quite predictably throw themselves into the fight, they find themselves facing the same mobility problems Kira encountered with the Strike when he first landed on Earth. Cagalli, meanwhile, takes the Sword-equipped Skygrasper out, and quite awesomely does some damage to one of the ZAFT ships with the sword. While flying. Neat! Unfortunately, she gets shot down but survives. This becomes a regular thing with her.

It's a very dramatic and intense battle, and the Archangel crew, with the assitance of the Desert Dawn resistance, manage to get the upper hand and force a retreat. Kira's adapted -very- well to ground and desert combat, effectively taking down the BuCUEs with a beam saber in an effort to conserve power. Waltfeld, however, would rather go down fighting than retreat, and he forced Kira to bring the battle to a deadly conclusion. Once again, the Strike is plagued with the low-battery problem, so Kira resorts to the pig-sticker knives - and delivers the fatal blow that destroys the LaGOWE and kills Waltfeld and Aisha. This becomes a regular thing for Kira.

As an aside, Waltfeld's words "There are no clear rules to end a war!" have become a central theme to this series, I've noticed. It's a sad fact of reality that plagues much of the cast. Aside from a few radical fanatics, most of the people in this series on all sides of the conflict don't want the war to continue. The problem is, nobody knows how it -should- be ended.

The Archangel crew and Desert Dawn have a celebration of their victory and funeral for their dead. We find out Cagalli's friend Ahmed who was killed in a previous episode was a boyfriend, as his mother gives Cagalli a green stone he intended to process and give to her. She takes it hard, but very quickly she seems to be over it. I'm not sure if this is bad characterization, in the writers wanting to start a little something with Kira, or good characterization in that she's a tough girl and knows she has to put it behind her and move on. It's probably the latter.

Afterwards, the Archangel leaves Africa and travels across the Red Sea, with Cagalli and her "Rambo" bodyguard on board. For the most part, the crew is happy to be out on the ocean, to enjoy some fresh air and relaxation. Well, except for Flay, who can only lurk in Kira's room, feeling seasick, and watching the outside world on the monitor screen. This becomes a regular thing with her.

Meanwhile, Athrun and Nicol's R&R is over and they arrive on Earth with Le Creuset, who has to leave them with Yzak and Dearka at Victoria spaceport (occupied by ZAFT) to go help plan or take part in ZAFT's upcoming Operation Spit Break. Le Creuset leaves Athrun in charge of the team. Yzak is -not- happy. At this point, Dearka's starting to show some fire, getting angry at the humiliation of being defeated by Kira's Strike time and again. He's backing up Yzak's desire for revenge. Those two are -so- much trouble.

Kira would be enjoying the fresh air as well, if he weren't still caught up in his anguish and conflicted feelings over all the death around him. Waltfeld's words haunt him - that ultimately killing the enemy is the only way to stop the fighting. Waltfeld's death has had a big effect on Kira, as well as the manipulation Flay's been laying on him. Cagalli catches him crying, and in one of the most heart-warming bits to date in this series, she gives him a big hug and tells him it'll be alright. They sit down and have a heart to heart talk... only for Flay to show up and break up the good moment. I think Kira could deal with his problems a lot better if he were with someone like Cagalli - someone he can actually TALK to and sort things out with. Not someone like Flay, who can only kiss and bang him and make him forget his problems for moments here and there. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing anytime soon...

But, the peace and quiet doesn't last long, as Commander Morassim of ZAFT's coastal Carpentaria base attempts a couple of raids on the Archangel at sea. We see a few new ZAFT mobile suit designs. The first is the aerial flight capable DINN, a winged GINN variant that actually looks pretty cool, compared to the generically-boring GINN. We also see the GOOhN, a Zock-esque aquatic torpedo-slinging MS, and the ZnO, a Gogg-esque aquatic clawed, close combat model. I think the GOOhN looks ugly, but functional. The ZnO, on the other hand, looks pretty neat, I think. I was never fond of First Gundam's aquatic Zeon MSs, but 0080's Z'Gok-E and Hy-Gogg look far superior, and the ZnO definitely gives me a Hy-Gogg vibe which I like.

The Archangel's fights against the forces from Carpenteria are resolved pretty quickly, with Mu La Flaga and Cagalli taking out the Skygraspers, and Kira forced to fight underwater with the Strike. Surprisingly, he adopts very well, using a bazooka to fire rounds underwater, since beam weapons would be useless, and using a pig-sticker knife to breach the armor a GOOhN and cause it to implode due to the water pressure! The only thing is, I can't imagine it was -that- deep enough to cause a sudden tin-can-crushing implosion like that. But it was still neat.

And I absolutely cannot overlook one of the most crowning moments of awesome in this series so far - the Archangel doing a BARREL ROLL to bring its big top deck guns to bear on some GOOhNs and take them out! I cheered big at this, though I'd hate to have been anyone on board for that, heheh.

Mu and Cagalli make quick work of a ZAFT submarine and other foes, though Cagalli's lack of experience is causing problems. She may be determined, but it doesn't make up for not knowing what she's doing. She runs into a ZAFT transport plane toting Athrun Zala and the Aegis Gundam to... somewhere... Carpenteria base?... and shoots it down, but gets shot down herself as well. Her Skygrasper lands on the beach of a small island. Checking out the tiny island, she finds Athrun and the Aegis Gundam, on the opposite beach. A gunfight starts, and thus begins Episode 24, titled "War for Two" - the same name used for Episode 1 of 08th MS Team. I grinned at this.

So they fight, but Athrun, being a Coordinator, gets the upper hand and ties up Cagalli. Athrun throws her gun into the sea, but keeps his own. He cuts her loose, pointing out that without a weapon, she's no threat to him, and they're both stranded on the island anyway until rescued. Their brief time together is insightful and yet awkward. They argue about the war, who's in the right and who's in the wrong. If you ask me, -both- sides are to blame, but the problem with people who are willing to kill for an idea is that such people are beyond reason and without empathy when it comes to trying to see things from a different point of view.

At night, Cagalli snatches Athrun's gun while he's sleeping, but he wakes up, brandishing his knife. She threatens to kill him, before he can use the Aegis Gundam to kill more people, but she's so torn up emotionally over being a killer herself, and she throws the gun away - just as Athrun jumps her with the knife. The gun goes off and grazes him, but he stops himself from killing Cagalli, who offers to patch up his wound.

The two part ways when they get word of rescue coming soon, from both Athrun's team coming to retrieve him, and Kira's Strike coming to retrieve Cagalli. They part ways, after such a tense and fascinating encounter... but I can't help but wonder if either of them are any better off for it? Somehow, I doubt it, at least not for Athrun. Cagalli, on the other hand.... I'm not sure. She has big things coming up in the following episode...

20 kilometers off the coast of Onogoro Island, part of the neutral Orb Union, Athrun's Gundam team is putting some -serious- hurt on the Archangel. The ship is taking a serious beating, the engines damaged and losing altitude. However, they're right on the edge of Orb's territorial waters, with an Orb surface fleet threatening to open fire on the Archangel and ZAFT mobile suits both if they get any closer. Kira is fighting ferociously - he manages to actually cut one of the Duel Gundam's beam saber hilts, and forces the Duel and Blitz out of the sky by destroying the Dodai-like flight platforms they're riding on. But the battle rages on, and Orb's about to add to Archangel's problems, when....

Dunh dunh DUNH! Cagalli reveals that she is, in fact, Princess Cagalli Yulu Athha, daughter of Orb's leader, Lord Uzumi Nara Athha! "Rambo" is her bodyguard, Colonel Ledonir Kisaka. And with that, Orb grants Archangel safe harbor at Onogoro Island, and the ZAFT Gundams leave to avoid trouble. For now...

Captain Murrue Ramius and her officers meet with Lord Athha. Orb granted safe harbor to the Archangel because they want the Strike Gundam's combat data, along with Kira's assistance, for their Morgenroete weapons manufacturing company. In exchange, they're offering a lot of assistance for the Archangel and its crew. Though we don't know what form this assitance takes, but I have to assume the repairs we see started on the battered ship, and supplies. We're halfway through the series now... methinks there are mecha upgrades coming soon.

The Orb citizen kids from Heliopolis are eager to get off the ship and visit their homes and families. Well, except for Flay. Because she has no one at home to love her. Oh, boo hoo. As for Cagalli, a woman she knows named Myrna comes around. She seems to be a nanny/maid/caretaker type woman for the Attha family, for the next time we see her, she's escorting Cagalli, who's now outfitted in another pretty dress. Cagalli really fascinates me - a young woman of privilege and royalty, who, for some reason became a grizzled desert freedom fighter. But considering the complicated politics behind Morgenroete developing the Archangel and Gundam prototypes for the Atlantic Federation - and seemingly with Lord Attha's knowledge - Cagalli's statement from Episode 1 regarding her father's "betrayal" is finally starting to make some sense. Betraying Orb's neutrality for the sake of selling weapons to outsiders, I assume? Maybe they're the Anaheim Electronics of the SEED universe - they'll sell weapons to -anyone-!

Then Athrun and his team sneak onto Onogoro Island via scuba gear, welcomed by locals (sympathizers or ZAFT agents?) to "the land of peace"...

And now the miscellaneous stuff!

Murrue Ramius has a stock footage boobie jiggle on the bridge now, when the Archangel is taking fire. I've seen it three times so far. Yes, I am counting. Ramius is hot.

Mu's flirting with Ramius is amusing. It's hard to say if she enjoys it or not, though. At times she seems amused, at other times she's warning Mu about sexual harrassment. I guess it depends on her level of stress at the time.

The Archangel - which has become my favorite ship in all of Gundamdom - looks really, really cool gliding across the ocean surface!

I wonder what this "guidance of Haumea" is that Cagalli mentions - maybe a diety of an Orb religion?

Sai seems to have accepted that he can't compete with Kira for Flay's affections. He still seems a bit scared of Kira, though. I really hope they can patch up their friendship - if Flay were just out of the way.

Ramius doesn't give up on looking for Cagalli after she's shot down, despite Natarle's objections. Damn, I love this woman. She's a fantastic captain. Maybe not the most experienced tactician, but she's smart, responsible, level-headed and has a good heart. Go, Murrue!

And Flay. Sick, twisted, and frankly -pathetic- Flay. She has no job on the ship, except for fawning over and sleeping with Kira. Seriously, the only time in these 5 episodes I recall -not- seeing her in Kira's room, watching a monitor and waiting for him to return, is when she went looking for him and found him getting some -real- emotional healing from Cagalli. I've hated Flay since she started her secret revenge trip and manipulation of Kira. That hate is still there, but now it's joined by something approaching... pity? I don't want to pity her. But she's certainly pitiful.

I'm now at the halfway point in the series. So far it's been a really fun ride, and I'm anxious to get through the rest of the series. Thanks as always, everyone, for all the great comments and helpful info and hints!

[Burke Rukes]

Athrun is clearly something of a stoic -- he doesn't express his emotions well, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Recall that the most passionate we've seen him in the series up until this point is when Natarle reveals that they have Lacus aboard the Archangel -- "What monsters you are!!". I think that Athrun does have legitimate romantic feelings for Lacus, but a combination of his naturally subdued personality, general war-weariness, and not a little awkwardness (he's sixteen, recall) mean that it's not exactly obvious. I would agree that theirs isn't a passionate relationship, but that doesn't mean that they don't love each other.

You're probably right. At the very least, they're friends, and love each other in that respect. But Athrun being quite stoic would explain any lack of expressive feeling on his part. Any romance I can actually see between them at this point seems to be mostly coming from Lacus, as far as I can tell.

Their arranged marriage has me thinking of a possible future plot development. Chairman Clyne and Minister Zala are currently at ideological odds with each other, regarding the PLANTs'/ZAFT's future and the war effort. As I said previously, I could see things getting ugly between them. I wonder what bearing such a development would have on the Athrun/Lacus relationship?

On the subject of the arranged marriage, that's more a comment on contemporary Japanese culture than it is anything in CE. In Japan, the birth rate has dipped below the replacement rate (meaning that their population is shrinking as more people die than are born) because people are getting married and having kids later and/or not at all. The "Coordinators have trouble having children" thing isn't really touched upon any more than what you've already seen.

Maybe that's all it is. I tend to be over-analytical and pick out the smallest details and wonder what their larger meaning is, when I watch or read a good story these days, and I wondered if there were a larger issue hinted at by that. And this morning, as I was thinking about La Creuset and his medical problem and pill-popping. Coordinators are supposed to be immune to diseases - at least, known diseases. Which makes me think that whatever Le Creuset's suffering from is something new. That, coupled with what struck me as a serious reproduction problem, is leading me to believe that the genetic manipulation that creates Coordinators is starting to come with a heavy price.

[Burke Rukes]

Sorry for the triple posting, mods. It's hard to copy-and-paste from separate posts, constantly scrolling back and forth, to get to the ones I want to reply to.

Burke, I've been enjoying your musings. It reminds me of something I totally missed out on: The opportunity to watch SEED without any foreknowledge of what was gonna happen. It also reminds me that the audience's imagination is the indispensable key to entertainment.

Keep on with your reviews and notions! This is once-in-a-lifetime, 'cuz once the secrets are revealed, they're revealed forever.

Thanks, Kenji! That's part of why I've been having as much fun with this thread as many of you seem to be, as well. A couple of years ago, on a sci-fi message board, I followed a similar thread posted by someone who was watching Babylon 5 for the first time. B5 is my all-time favorite television show, and I've watched the entire series and its spin-offs/movies/etc at least a couple dozen times over the last almost-20 years. It was fun, reading the reactions and comments of a new viewer of the series, allowing me to vicariously re-live my own first viewing of the series in the 1990s. It's what I set out to do for all of you with this thread (and future threads for Destiny and 00), and I'm glad I'm giving you all such fun reading material.