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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:01 pm 
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AEUG Slapping Boy

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Yeah i must say, if Haman had say 5 more of those Quebely's at her disposal at that point of the war, Axis could of wiped out the Titans and AEUG no problem.Funnels are just way too awesome of a weapon, good luck trying to figure out those patterns if your not a Newtype.Char was too busy being a politician to justify a mobile suit upgrade i guess, and even the Zeta was a bit lacking in comparison to some of the Titans MS and the Quebely come the final battle.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Man I am a bit disheartened by peoples opinions coming back to this thread. My comments earlier in the thread were from my fond decade old memories of zeta, and now that I'm at 39 in the re-watch I'm more dumbfounded.

First off, what is are basis for comparison when levying these criticisms. If your comparing the dialogue to Wes Anderson films that's fine, but I have been in a bit of a mass consumption of Gundam since re-immersing myself the past couple months. I think the characters are still among the most compelling compared to what I've seen of seed (only first 7 episodes) and my recent watch of Wing subtitled (which while enjoyable started to get pretty boring around episode 30).

I have not seen 00 so perhaps those battles just went ahead and made all others look obsolete, but I am thoroughly enjoying most of the fights. I agree with the sentiments that they are a bit more realistic and it is usually a handful of MS squaring off in a semi realistic manner. Amuro chopping the Mobile Armors arm off is bad ass, the hyper bazooka launcher, all the times we actually see suits DAMAGED!

After watching the Gundams in Wing just stand there and eat non stop bullets/beams (even MSG is guilty to a much smalller degree on occasion) watching back and forth encounters where everything actually counts is refreshing.

The episode when Char gives the speech on TV, and they show the Titans fighting in the city is amazing.


this still came across as jumbled thoughts, and not nearly as elegant as I'd hoped. That being said I really like show, and from my current re-watch I feel it is truly more than ever deserving of it's reputation and legacy.


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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Mecha Flunky
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Andrew86 wrote:
Man I am a bit disheartened by peoples opinions coming back to this thread. My comments earlier in the thread were from my fond decade old memories of zeta, and now that I'm at 39 in the re-watch I'm more dumbfounded.


Dude, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it shouldn't come as a surprise when there are people out there whose opinions differ from your own. You clearly enjoyed Zeta, that's awesome and more power to you, but I'm one of those people who simply can't see what's supposed to be so good about the show.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes here and I hope you won't take this as some kind of personal insult, but I've honestly got to say that out of all the Gundam shows and OVA's that I've seen so far, Zeta is by far the worst. The only one that's come close is Seed, but even that I found to be more entertaining (intentional or not) than Zeta.

I've already talked about how much I disliked pretty much all of the characters (with a few exceptions here and there), so much so in fact that I could barely bring myself to feel anything but apathy when they started dropping like flies at the very end. The pacing was almost painfully dull at times, I knew things were happening on the screen but most of the time it just felt like meaningless filler to pad out the episodes.

I guess one of the reasons why I seem so angry with Zeta is because ever since I got into Gundam with 00 (a show which I for the record have pretty much nothing but love for), everywhere I went people seemed to have nothing but good things to say about it. Of course I got hyped and went into it with really high expectations, because wasn't this the show which everyone hailed as the best thing that Gundam had to offer? The show which turned pretty much all the other shows to crap by comparison?

Let's just say that I wasn't really all that impressed with it once I was done with it.

Look. I don't outright hate the show, not at all. It had its share of memorable moments, some truly great mecha designs and the animation (while somewhat crude by today's standards) was really topnotch for its time. But all in all, I guess all I can say is that Zeta simply is not for me. Do I regret watching it? Not at all, because it did prove to be a quite a learning experience for me and at the very least gave me some necessary backstory for future Gundam stories.

I really hope there's no hard feelings and I would hate to have people think I'm some kind of obnoxious, know-it-all little upstart, because that's not at all who I am. I simply wanted to share my opinion about a show that managed to bring an emotional response out of me. It may not have been a positive one, but a response none the less.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:14 am 
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AEUG Slapping Boy

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Different people look for different things in shows, and certain things will annoy people that others will love. For example, one thing i love about Zeta is the fact that the people seem like the same flawed people I've known my whole life, the emotional instability and irrationality, along with the high idealism getting stomped out by reality really hit a chord with me. The fact that i can count the people who i would of considered "good" on two hands is part of what drew me to the show. Were other people who have been surrounded by kind people, and have a more generous view on human good would find the characters unrealistic and be unable to sympathize with them, calling it "unnecessarily dark". I can't sympathize with Kira with Seed, because to me he is just "coordinator Jesus, who cries too much", he doesn't seem real to me, i can relate and empathize with a jerk like Jerid from Zeta over him any day.

Another thing with Zeta is that allot of it is much more subtle when it comes to the character development, and it's better to watch large episode chunks. Reccoca's eventual betrayal was being built up from very early on in the series(for one example), and you have to be extremely mindfull of what has already happened to really get the full picture of it. Were something like Seed for example would use more flash backs, clip shows and obvious statements to move along the character development, and remind us of what has been going on.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:36 am 
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Ouroboric wrote:
Seed for example would use more flash backs, clip shows and obvious statements to move along the character development, and remind us of what has been going on.

flashbacks are a useful enough plot device for this kind of thing when used SPARINGLY
This is something I find INTENSELY annoying about Seed: flashbacks are massively overused. On multiple occasions, a conversation will take place, and within five minutes, somebody or another will have a flashback to that same conversation that just happened.
Another example: Nicol's death. The very next episode, we get a flashback to Nicol's death no fewer than three times over the course of ten minutes.
Now, there are a few cases in the series wherein flashbacks ARE used to great effect. But mostly they're massively overused. A flaw that few other shows, Z Gundam included, had.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:49 am 
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I'm more of the mid-ground when it comes to Zeta, although maybe it's come off as otherwise here (which tends to happen when I discuss something that everybody in a discussion finds incredible and I find merely mediocre). Zeta's plot is good, I just find its presentation flawed, and find it generally unengaging to watch. But I think there's a fundamental disconnect between fans and non-fans, here; everything's coming down to opinion. People either find the fights boring or enrapturing; they find the characters alienating or extremely resonant. I think it may have to be an "agree to disagree" thing, because nothing can be decided on an actual flaw or strength of the series. You know when you experience something, and you know something's bad/good about it, but in the long run it's how much you care about that particular feature that decides how much it affects your opinion of the whole? That doesn't seem to be happening here. I never thought Zeta, of all things, would be so divisive a series.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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Andrew86 wrote:
Man I am a bit disheartened by peoples opinions coming back to this thread. My comments earlier in the thread were from my fond decade old memories of zeta, and now that I'm at 39 in the re-watch I'm more dumbfounded.

First off, what is are basis for comparison when levying these criticisms. If your comparing the dialogue to Wes Anderson films that's fine, but I have been in a bit of a mass consumption of Gundam since re-immersing myself the past couple months. I think the characters are still among the most compelling compared to what I've seen of seed (only first 7 episodes) and my recent watch of Wing subtitled (which while enjoyable started to get pretty boring around episode 30).

I have not seen 00 so perhaps those battles just went ahead and made all others look obsolete, but I am thoroughly enjoying most of the fights. I agree with the sentiments that they are a bit more realistic and it is usually a handful of MS squaring off in a semi realistic manner. Amuro chopping the Mobile Armors arm off is bad ass, the hyper bazooka launcher, all the times we actually see suits DAMAGED!

After watching the Gundams in Wing just stand there and eat non stop bullets/beams (even MSG is guilty to a much smalller degree on occasion) watching back and forth encounters where everything actually counts is refreshing.

The episode when Char gives the speech on TV, and they show the Titans fighting in the city is amazing.


this still came across as jumbled thoughts, and not nearly as elegant as I'd hoped. That being said I really like show, and from my current re-watch I feel it is truly more than ever deserving of it's reputation and legacy.


No reason to get miffed, Zeta Gundam is obviously successful and whatever anyone thinks of it it's undeniable that without it Gundam as a franchise would be in a weaker place. Personal opinion is just that, personal. I can't get my head around why people like SEED but whatever, they can watch that I can watch other stuff. That's one of the Gundam franchises strongest points; love it or hate it there is a version of Gundam out to appeal to a large set of fans in its different incarnations. So if you don't like a particular series you can just find one you love.

Take solace in that I showed the original MSG movies and the Zeta series to 2 friends(25 year olds) and they loved the hell out of it. The reaction after each viewing session was just "Why is this show so frigging amazing". It was a blast.

As for 00 I enjoy it but imo the action while better then SEED just on virtue of non-recycled animation and a much faster pace a lot of it devolves into the Gundams just blasting through grunts like butter. But that's bolstered because 00 has some really awesome designs and some of the fights do let the suits show off but I dunno I always wished they were longer. That could just be my Graham fanboyism though ;)


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Cardboard Leo Ace

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Ouroboric wrote:
Another thing with Zeta is that allot of it is much more subtle when it comes to the character development, and it's better to watch large episode chunks. Reccoca's eventual betrayal was being built up from very early on in the series(for one example), and you have to be extremely mindfull of what has already happened to really get the full picture of it. .


I agree 100%!

I was by no means offended at all, I was just genuinely surprised that some people got so little out of it.


edit: reading some opinions on the battles. First I think Char was anything but a chump in the final battle. He is getting attacked from both sides by two incredible pilots with far superior suits, and he still manages to somewhat hold his own.

I think Scirroco vs Haman was an awesome battle as well. Seeing him sense the funnels is an awesome scene, and a testament to him as a pilot. Maybe I'm biased but I also find it exciting whenever Amuro enters the fray in a MS. When he saves Kamille by slicing that one suits arm off is very cool. Perhaps I am looking for something different, but I don't want to see a bunch of fancy maneuvers and slick moves in the battles. That is the kind of ZOINKS that can take you out of the drama. Hyaku Shiki blowing away like 30 Gaza Cs with the Mega Bazooka launcher was very cool though. As is Haman and Kamilles newtype acid trip scenes.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:38 pm 
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Mecha Flunky

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Why is this show praised as the ultimate mecha anime? The majority of the narrative is disjointed and frenetic, and everything takes place at a breakneck speed and rarely slows down enough to let the audience get to know the characters. Whenever it does slow down, the dialogue is written in a very vague way that makes it hard to understand what the characters are trying to say.

Another thing that bothered me about this show was how characters were sporadically introduced, then dropped, and then reintroduced later.

Spoiler: show
For instance, the first time we see Paptimus Scirocco, he is a mobile suit pilot. The next time we see him, he is already an officer in the Titans. This change happens over the course of the second cour of the series, which focuses on the AEUG’s failed operation to capture Jaburo and subsequent attempts to get back into space. Wouldn’t it have been more interesting to shed some light on Scirocco and how he rose through the ranks?


The overall impression I got from Zeta Gundam was that a lot of potential was sacrificed to make way for action scenes.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:15 pm 
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I agree that Zeta is a mediocre show once you get past the reputation, but this doesn't seem like the best way to go about discussing it.

In other words, Opinion Fight? Ready? GO!

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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:22 pm 
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yyyyyyyyyyyyyyeah kinda seems like you're picking a fight here

i'll leave this open in case people wanna actually discuss Zeta Gundam and such but if y'all start fighting i'm breaking out the Bakruetsu Mod Finger


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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:01 pm 
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We had a really good thread about this topic awhile ago. My opinion hasn't changed much.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:27 pm 
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I will only reply on objective matter here, what's in the spoiler. The character is alway a ship commander from start, he just happen to be good pilot as well. In other words, you get the process in reverse.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:45 pm 
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Quote:
I will only reply on objective matter here, what's in the spoiler. The character is alway a ship commander from start, he just happen to be good pilot as well. In other words, you get the process in reverse.


It's a shame they didn't make that clear in the show.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:16 am 
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I found this thread thanks to Destiny_Gundam providing a link to a more recent thread, so I'll give my defenses of Zeta. Yeah at first, I too assumed Zeta to be the best because almost everyone said so, so I watched the series once as a teenager, and one more time just a couple of months ago and lemme tell ya, this legitimately did become my most favorite Gundam as well as most favorite cartoon in general. In fact it's butting heads with the movie versions of the original Gundam for the position of my most favorite Gundam work.

I'll start off with what I love about Kamille. he's my favorite Anime character, tied with Yosuke Hanamura of Persona fame, but for a different reason. One reason for me liking Kamille is why I don't enjoy the angsty protagonists as of the past decade in Anime. Kamille has many, many reasons to be angsty, yet he tries and tries to compensate for all of his hardships and losses. He tries to maintain positivity while life just keeps stabbing his friends in the face right in front of him. If any anime character today went through the same things he went through, the writers would just turn him/her into Sasuke Uchiha, just an angry but otherwise stoic character. Kamille is constantly trying to configure the way he feels as things go down and eventually driving him to the point of madness.

Another aspect I really, really dug was that this Lalah conflict was way better to me than the original Lalah conflict. When that conflict ended in the first one, I barely felt anything and it was hard to feel for Amuro's guilt because his feelings for the most part were one sided, for Lalah was a willing participant with nothing to lose if she backed out. Four is a different story. She's bound by a certain contract that will mess her up in the future if she fails to comply. And what I love most about the relationship between her and Kamille is that they both want it to work out, and it really could have if someone paid better attention at that climax.

I also really dug the tragedy into certain events, because alot of them were caused by poor decision making that is prevalent in desperate situations or when someone is not paying enough attention. The battles were less about overpowering with a powerful suit and more about taking advantage of an enemy pilot's smallest mistakes. Though the last third moved a little toward fighting by means of overpowering, there were still some death scenes I liked because they could have literally gone any other way if someone just so much as pushed the joystick in a different direction, but that's not what the characters themselves know. Some people might call it poor writing, especially that one funny death in episode 49 or someone else's poor decision to get out of the cockpit, but I see it more as human mistakes with the worst possible consequences, which does happen.

And yeah, the characters may not be as likable as in MSG, but man they're as engaging to me in various ways. This is my favorite version of Char because usually he tries to play it cool but when you see him flip out, that's where his true colors shine and it's also a really good premonition into how he ends up in Char's Counterattack. Fa might be horribly unlikable to some, but to me, she's a great representation of an annoyingly naive teenager who happens to get mixed up or volunteers for war. She, like a teenager, wants to prove herself worthy of being a pilot but is still edgy enough to not wanna sacrifice pride for criticisms that were meant to help her. And Katz is a great representation of that one dumb kid we know who centers a good chunk of his current age on a girl who affected him deeply. And there are wayy too many for me to name who I actually appreciate in this show.

Lastly, the politics in this show are presented in a truly intriguing way. Even though one side is primarily shown, I could still feel the conflict of ideals just clashing, and they didn't need Giant robots to do it.

ANyway that's my two cents, It'll take me forever to list everything I loved about the series, but I can tell you it ain't blind love anymore. It's also kinda refreshing to see those who don't like it AND say so in a very respectful way. I'd be weirded out if 99% of the audience just took this in with blind love. Almost all of your complaints of this show are totally understandable, but what some of you guys find mediocrity in, I found absolute gold.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:42 am 
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Or you could have responded in said recent thread instead of gravedigging this one.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 am 
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okay, threads merged, thanks to the magic of friendship and mod tools

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