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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:33 pm 
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*appreciative whistle*
A 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300SL. I'm impressed - that is one helluva fine car. IMO one of the sexiest sport cars ever created.

Sorry, that was a bit random. I'm talking about Irisviel's car - just watched episode...6? I dunno, I wasn't counting. By the way, that entire scene was hilarious because
Spoiler: show
Irisviel is such a dangerously reckless driver Saber's apparently rather nervous, but Irisviel's clearly having the time of her life. :P

Then again, if I had a 300SL, it'd be my favorite toy too.
On another note, the joyride is interrupted by
Spoiler: show
Caster, who launches into his whole irritating Jeanne D'Arc shpiel, much to Saber's annoyance. Typically she introduces herself and the psycho doesn't accept it. Then he crawls back to Ryuunosuke and they continue their hobby (well Caster's mainly, but Ryuunosuke doesn't seem to mind much) of murdering children

Off the top of my head, I can think of very few roles Akira Ishida's done that annoyed me more than Ryuunosuke. Speaking of annoying, we move on to
Spoiler: show
Kayneth and Lancer - as well as that redhead whose name I can't be bothered to remember. Right off the bat, I hate her almost as much as I do Kayneth. Though judging from how she reacts when Lancer speaks up, she's evidently already fallen victim to the ridiculously handsome Servant's infamous "love spot".
In an amusing twist, Kiritsugu next evacuates the building, then brings it down on their heads - though of course that isn't the end of it.
Then there's the decision to have everyone else (minus Assassin, I imagine) gang up on Caster, which I approve, and a mildly interesting discussion between Kirei and Archer.

Not a whole lot of action, but still a great episode overall. Can't wait for next Sunday to watch the next one.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Yes, Irisviel is such a lovely woman

Spoiler: show
;_;

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:05 am 
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Just finished watching episode 7. I am immensely satisfied with being able to see the Calico in action.

Rider continues to succeed in making me smile with his motivation to defeat a Servant in exchange for a pair of pants.

I'm liking how ufotable is animating Volumen Hydragyrum. Quite the versatile CGI blob-o-mercury.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:50 pm 
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When I first saw his pictures and stuff in the novels I didn't think I'd like Rider much for whatever reason, but he really is just about the most awesome guy around haha. Honestly, what was wrong with him going out in shorts though? They didn't look like boxers to me, so why the big fuss over pants, Waver?

Lancer's Big Damn Heroes moment was fun; I really enjoy his and Saber's interaction. They really make a great team with some fun banter, and seeing Caster freak out is oh so satisfying.

As much as I dislike Kiritsugu for how he treats poor Saber, his and Iri's moment on the balcony was pretty heartrending, the poor guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Zeonic Glory wrote:
Rider continues to succeed in making me smile with his motivation to defeat a Servant in exchange for a pair of pants.
APendragon wrote:
When I first saw his pictures and stuff in the novels I didn't think I'd like Rider much for whatever reason, but he really is just about the most awesome guy around haha.

Yeah, Rider's hamminess is one of the reasons he's one of my favorite Servants in this show.
APendragon wrote:
Lancer's Big Damn Heroes moment was fun; I really enjoy his and Saber's interaction. They really make a great team with some fun banter

Oh I concur. The interactions between Saber and Lancer are just one in a long list of reasons why Lancer is by far my favorite of /Zero's Servants.
Plus him getting an awesome BDH moment right when he makes his grand entrance is awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:14 pm 
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It's a shame he's summoned by a slimeball like Kayneth, though. That man knows how to cramp a knight's style.

I could just imagine the interactions between Kayneth and Iskander has Waver not stolen the mantle...

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:48 pm 
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A thought occurred to me today while watching the episode 8 of this show.
Well actually several, but one in particular concerning that dirtbag Kirei's little monologue after he...
Spoiler: show
skewered poor Irisviel (bastard).

I heard that, and immediately found myself drawing a parallel to Artemis Entreri.
Anyway, other than that a tense few minutes followed his departure, though
Spoiler: show
thank GOD Kiritsugu had the foresight to give Avalon to her, so she recovered. I also really liked how Irisviel herself got to be awesome for a little bit too.

Speaking of Kiritsugu, I found the conclusion of the battle between him and Kayneth to be pretty awesome. Lancer of course being the badass he is showed up just in time to prevent Kiritsugu from finishing him off. Only a brief respite, unfortunately :(


But all in all, still pretty awesome. I am LOVING this show.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:45 pm 
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I never got into Fate/Night despite multiple attempts (the palm-worthy heroism harem-building annoyed me), but after a lot of reluctance and good words, I gave Fate/Zero a try.

duh duh duh da duhhhh, I'm lovin it. This is what I was expecting/hoping when I heard the premise of the Holy Grail War of Fate/Night. Magical heroes, strategy and machinations, virtues and flaws working with and against each other. Fate Stay Night never delivered to my taste (Shirou just wasn't my sort of protagonist, even though his over-the-top heroism was sort of the point of being flawed), but this cast really has my interest.

If I had to speculate the biggest difference, I'd say it's because they're (nearly) all adults. Their issues are more mature and measured, and less hormonal. The kids are, well, kids, for good and bad. The younger Masters have the immaturity they deserve, but also (in Waver's case) the nugget of worth to be developed. The older masters are a mixed bunch of virtues and flaws.


I find myself in the opposite stance of Dark Duel about Kirei and Kiritsugu. I don't see Kirei as a dirtbag, really, but Kiritsugu strikes me as the best sort of con artist: the sort of person who seems untrustable and ruthless, but leaves a carefully buried inner-nice guy with a unique sort of integrity to be discovered by people looking for it. And then leaves a few more projection-worthy personas, so that other people can 'find' them as well.

It really, really wouldn't surprise me if Kiritsugu is leading on both of the women with manufactured vulnerabilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:30 am 
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Can't say I disagree with you about Kiritsugu. Because I don't.
To be perfectly honest, I don't like him either; I love Irisviel though. And I hated Kayneth with a passion, so seeing Kiritsugu take him down was immensely satisfying.
As for Kirei...well, the difference between you and I is that I've seen Fate/Stay Night. I'll say no more here as I don't want to ruin /Zero(Which incidentally I am preferring to the old F/SN anime) for you, but...well, you'll see.
However, if you don't want to go through the entire anime(which follows one of three possible routes in the original VN, the "Fate" Scenario), I'd recommend at least checking out the "Unlimited Blade Works" movie (which follows a second route, which gives the movie its name). Personally, I preferred UBW to the series overall, but there are certain aspects of the series that I liked.
There is a third F/SN scenario, "Heaven's Feel", which I hope we will eventually see animated, mostly because Rider gets a significantly larger role than in either of the other two routes.

Now then. On to my much-belated thoughts concerning this latest episode, which owing to life getting in the way I was not able to watch until today.

- My initial impression of Sola was that I didn't like her. At all. She came across to me as an arrogant, self-centered b****. As of this episode's viewing, I have to amend that: she's an arrogant, selfish, PSYCHO b****. And I hate her guts. I mean heck,
Spoiler: show
torturing Kayneth into surrendering his remaining Command Seals? And threatening to amputate his right arm? That's...I never thought I'd say this, but I feel sorry for that poor bastard. She's probably the only Fate character I hate worse than Gilgamesh or Kirei, and I thought that was impossible.

But enough about that particular whackjob. Kiritsugu...From a logical standpoint he's right, but I still think it's awfully heartless of him to evidently not give a damn about Caster's evil shenanigans. That being said, he has a point; what if Lancer HAD attacked? I mean, I know Saber's got this whole Knight chivalry/honor code thing, and evidently Lancer does likewise, but what if he hadn't? That's an awful risk to take.


We next move on to that hilarious Large Ham, Rider, whose quest for a pair of pants has apparently ended in success. His antics never cease to amuse me. Additionally, Waver finally does something that demonstrates competence. I'm impressed; and apparently, so is Iskander.
Spoiler: show
The next scene, in which they find the place where Caster was engaging in his hobby of murdering children, was rather more disturbing; though the fact that Assassin is revealed to be alive to at least one of his enemies was interesting.


My favorite part of the episode, however, was its first few minutes, and the brief overview it gave us of the tragic story of Diarmuid Ua Duibhne. Damn, I want to read the Fenian Cycle now(The Irish mythological cycle that features Diarmuid; I'd also like to read the Ulster Cycle, which featured Cú Chulainn, aka F/SN's Lancer)
The preview for the next ep though...I'm kind of dreading what happens next...though hopefully it means we'll see Berserker again; that dude kicked ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:15 am 
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Diarmuid's story is far more unfortunate than the anime lead on. Grainne fell in love with him because of the cursed spot but they didn't run away because of forbidden love or anything. Diarmuid wanted nothing to do with her because of his loyalty to Fionn but she went and put a geis on him, giving him no choice but to run away with her. As cute as the anime shows her to be, she was really quite the bitch. Because of her Diarmuid broke his loyalty to Fionn and had to fight his fellow warriors.

Even after it was settled, Diarmuid got attacked by a boar and fatally wounded. Fionn could have healed him with water from his hands, but he kept 'accidentally' spilling the water before he got to Diarmuid. Hell, his son and his other knights even called him out on that but it was too late. That didn't sit well with me because earlier I had been reading about how awesome Fionn was when he was younger. I was all "What happened to you man? You used to be cool!"

The kicker is that Grainne forgave Fionn for it and even married him afterwards.

Yes, I had my parents pick me up a book of mythology when they were in Ireland solely because of Cu Chulainn as he was in Fate/Stay Night. It covered all of the cycles and had Diarmuid's story in it too. I didn't realise Zero Lancer was the same guy until later. I don't remember the book I read ever referencing his love spot.

As for Kiritsugu, I'm not terribly fond of him, but I get him. He knows that he has to do unsavoury things for the greater good. He's the "kill a hundred to save a thousand" type. He has to bury his emotions or else the nature of his deeds would crush him.

Kirei is awesome, though. The nature of his character is layed out in Heaven's Feel but I don't know if Fate/Zero will cover it. Basically
Spoiler: show
he's a psychopath, but he has a conscience. He knows the difference between right and wrong which is why he knows that enjoying the suffering of others is a bad thing. He tried so many things, joining different organizations, even marrying and having a child in the hopes that he could find something good to satisfy him. Unfortunately he had no luck there. He wonders why an evil person such as himself has been allowed to exist and tries to find answers.


Like I said, Heaven's Feel is where he really shines. He's undoubtedly a villain but even Shiro admits that he likes him.

Also, in case anyone didn't know, the english edition of the Fate/Zero season 1 Blu Ray box set is up for pre-order. It costs around $400. Against my better judgement I did pre-order it, though I may cancel it sometime down the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Decided to get it over with and read the summaries of the other routes for... whatever the next Grail War is referred to as. So yeah, I get why he's a bastard... though it really hasn't shown yet here, and I hope that Kirei is at least a good bastard.

Looking forward to seeing how Fate/Zero plays out, but as far as I'm concerned I'll probably just pretend everything after it doesn't exist. Or at least played with less cringe-worthy stuff than I've read in general.



Despite the misleading negativism, I've found myself going over the type-moon wiki, reading up about the system and such that's referred to here. I actually enjoy the concepts overall, and even individual aspects referred to in Fate Stay Night. The predicaments of the Heroes, Saber's identity troubles, even Archer's grudge against Shirou. Lots of good points.

I just, well, don't like Shirou that much when he's over the top heroism. Or Rin when she's being uber-tsundere. Or Sakura's backstory of utter tragedy. Or Souji, but you're supposed to not like slime balls in general. But given that these are pretty central characters...



Still, the different ways the Heroes are used and cast as, and the idea of the Noble Phantasms in general, is interesting. If Assassin proves you can summon a gestalt of individuals under a single title... and the idea of heroes who were 'constructed' by culture...

I wonder, could you summon 'The Unknown Soldier' as a Servant? I mean, he/she/every single soldier who has ever died and been lost to time, unidentified... well, they have their own tomb! And hey, aren't soldiers heroes by the modern culture of the times?

(Of course, such an artificial creation would be divided by all the internal 'beings' it represents.)

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:52 pm 
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Assassin is only like that because
Spoiler: show
the particular Hassan he is had split his mind into many different personalities. When summoned as a servant, each one of his personalities got a separate body.


As for theoretical servants... I've been wondering about summoning Jesus as a Caster.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Jesus as a Caster? It would probably work. Type-Moon had Shakespear as a Caster, IIRC.

But then, Jesus killing people? I could see him as a non-lethal Heroic Spirit, much to his Summoner's annoyance. His Noble Phantasm would probably involve being willing to shoulder the burden of a Command Seal, rather than violate his beliefs.

Muhammad has a more lethal history. I could certainly see him involved.



For the Unknown Soldier, I was thinking in terms of a Schrodinger's Cat paradox. The Unknown Soldier is both every soldier and any soldier at the same time. Less multiple bodies (except as Noble Phantasm), and more of 'that person is anyone and everyone eligible at the same time.' Which, when you remember that many of the heroes have had their bodies lost to time and no longer identified, could mean the Unknown Soldier is them as well.

Idle thoughts on overdrive.


Just watched episode 10. It lives up to its title.

Spoiler: show
Which is to say, it's mostly about Rin. Whose still in a habit of getting in over her head with the best intentions. And still has dudes looking out for her when she does get in trouble.

But, by extension, Rin helped characterize some of the other characters.

Tokiomi, her father, is reserves but sincerely loving. I can't help but feel he was talking on a more general level when he said that mages had to be poised at all times: even when he is emotional, he has to control himself. Compare that to Rin's statement about how being able to be openly emotional is 'normal', and it had some weight for both of them.

Kariya, Berserker's master, strikes me as a better example of 'suicidal hero-wish' than Emiya ever did, even if it isn't about being a 'hero' per say. His saving Rin from one of Caster's monsters, and the subsequent scene with Rin's mother/old friend/old flame?, well, it's kind of sad when he has so many death flags up. Since I know enough of the Fate Stay scenarios to know that Sakura is doomed to pure tragedy and worse... well, that will probably be one of the things I'll selectively forget or draw up something happier for my own mind. Kariya is tragic, all the more for how good he seems in general.

Finally, Kirei, who apparently had Assassin shadowing Rin the entire time. No creepy smile at her predicament, which doesn't quite fit some of the Type-Moon wiki's descriptions of him as 'someone who enjoys the suffering of others.' It also helped to establish that Rin may not have been in any real danger the entire time. Maybe. Definitely still a person of unclear motivations in Fate/Zero.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Dean_the_Young wrote:
Jesus as a Caster? It would probably work. Type-Moon had Shakespear as a Caster, IIRC.


They did but that doesn't really make any sense. Jesus's miracles at least could be seen as him using magic.

Dean_the_Young wrote:
For the Unknown Soldier, I was thinking in terms of a Schrodinger's Cat paradox. The Unknown Soldier is both every soldier and any soldier at the same time. Less multiple bodies (except as Noble Phantasm), and more of 'that person is anyone and everyone eligible at the same time.' Which, when you remember that many of the heroes have had their bodies lost to time and no longer identified, could mean the Unknown Soldier is them as well.


It wouldn't work like that, though. General concepts like that only have one embodiment that can be summoned. Case in point: in Fate/Extra there is an Archer who is Robin Hood. 'Robin Hood' is a name given to any chivalrous theif from the forest and over history many have beared the title. However only one specfic Robin Hood was summoned.

If you were to summon the Unknown Soldier you'd probably only get one such soldier who has been known as such.

As for ep 10
Spoiler: show
Kirei had Kariya followed by Assassin, not Rin. As such he only became aware of Rin's situation when Kariya saved her.

Either way, at this point in time Kirei is still lost. He's still searching for something 'good' to satisfy him. He hasn't embraced his joy of other's suffering yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:57 pm 
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No matter what happens, I still really feel bad for Kariya, the most sympathetic master during this war. Dude doesn't have much more time to live and still saves people. Although I didn't know he could control the insects? Or were those bees/wasps from someone else and not related to his crest worms?

Although I also want to see more Berserker.

Dammit, now I want a playable berserker class in Fate/Extra CCC. Maybe even Tohno Shiki as a assassin-class servant. That could work, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:51 am 
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It's kind of hard to think of heroic assassins, really. Most legends don't go around them.


I got to say, though. I'd think Hector of Troy would make an awesome, yet sane and sympathetic, servant. Guy has 'guardian' all around him: defends his city for years of constant warfare, stands by his family even when he thinks they're mistaken, is a loving husband and father. Sure, he went down, but only to Achilles. Who, while more powerful, semi-divine, and invulnerable in all but one place, was also a great twat.

Couple Hector with a someone who's also risking it all to protect someone important, and you'd have a pair to laud.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Dean_the_Young wrote:
It's kind of hard to think of heroic assassins, really. Most legends don't go around them.


That's exactly why as a rule Assassin can only be one of the people to hold the name of Hassan-i Sabbah. Not only is it because he's the only well known Assassin that is also considered a hero by his people (any other assassin worth his skills will not be known by anyone), but his clan is where the word assassin comes from. The word itself severes as a catalyst to summon him.

But since his legend isn't very well known and he's only a hero in the eyes of a small number of people, as a servant he is really weak.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:13 am 
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Newest episode out. Not that much to say.

Rider's noble phantasm is awesome and all... but what was the point of Assassin in the first place?

As it was, just as a target.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:14 pm 
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This episode was really weak. The animation was notably of lower quality and even the battle at the end was pretty lame.

As for Assassin...
Spoiler: show
Assassin was always just a tool for Tokiomi. All of them got sent out because Tokiomi wanted to test the power of Rider's Noble Phantasm. Assassin is dead for good at this point but it's not like Kirei ever cared anyways. We all know his destiny is with Gilgamesh.


In regards to all the king speak, I'd certainly rather have a king like Rider than the other two.

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 Post subject: Re: Fate/Zero
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Aaaand cliffhanger.

See you in April!

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