Canon Side Stories-Gundam

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Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by CloudFF7 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:54 pm

I've been racking my brains for awhile, trying to figure out which side stories are canon or official to the Gundam meta-series timelines. As you'll know they appear in manga, novels, short films and videogames. I've compiled a list, can you tell if I'm wrong or what is missing from the list:

UNIVERSAL CENTURY
MS Igloo
Rise from the Ashes
Cross Dimension 0079
Lost War Chronicles
The Blue Destiny
Space, To the End of Flash
MSV Senki Johnny Ridden
Zeonic Front
The Plot to Assassinate Gihren
C.D.A Portrait of a Young Comet
Battlefield Record U.C. 0081
Ecole du Ciel
Advance of Zeta and sequels
Green Divers and Gundam Evolve ep.9
Mirage of Zeon
Gundam Sentinel
MSV-R Return of Johnny Ridden
Gundam F90
Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122
Silhouette Formula 91 in U.C. 0123
Climax U.C: Bonds of the Bloodline
Crossbone Gundam and sequels
Gundam Legacy
Last edited by CloudFF7 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:04 pm

Let me try save Mark (and everyone else) a lot of time and effort and try to summarize this real quick.

Japanese media like anime and manga do not possess the concept of fictional canon as it is recognized here in the United States. Gundam isn't like Star Wars, where there are specific levels of what counts and doesn't count. In an interview with the brains at Sunrise, they said that they put things quite literally in terms of black and white: "white" works are those that are official, "black" works are those that aren't. The "white list" is everything that's animated; the "black list" is everything else. It doesn't really matter how hard a manga or game tries to fit within continuity (like Blue Destiny), or even who was involved in its production (like Crossbone, penned by Tomino himself). If it's not an anime, then as far as they're concerned it isn't "official".
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by mcred23 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:06 pm

And if you want more information on that, read this thread.
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Deacon Blues » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:32 pm

Climax UC being considered official? *slaps knee and laughs*

A giant Death Star (the Illuyankas stronghold) in the Universal Century going unnoticed? Surely you jest.

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:12 pm

It was in the hangar where they keep the spare Zakrellos and G-Fighters. :P
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by TheGundamMKII » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:22 am

I don't really get this concept of anime and manga/written works being essentially unrelated myself, but I understand that it's just the way it is.

Is there a reason for this? Or is it just to keep timeline clutter to a minimum?

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:44 am

Maybe because the Japanese are too smart to get caught up in crap like "ZOMG this Special Edition sucks! Han shot first! I'm just going to pretend the series ended in 1983!"?
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:00 am

Don't they do the same thing in Star Trek? Where only the TV series and movies are canon and everything else, with just a few exceptions, is non-canon?
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by J-Lead » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:10 am

To be honest, I don't even bother worrying about it anymore unless the work is outright stated to be an alternate scenario or whatnot. Universal Century is expansive enough to hold all these side stories so long as they don't blatantly contradict important previously established elements. Even things like deployment dates and mobile suit specs are so susceptible to retconning in gundam that one source portraying a slightly different depiction of a mobile suit's capabilities or how many were made, or how this or that battle played out and how many numbers on each side were involved, etc, that it's just not worth fretting over. The MSV-R manga even plays on this constant retconning in-universe through Johnny Ridden as conflicting historical records and witness accounts on his actions during the OYW (I think, anyway. It's been awhile since I read it.)

tl:dr Don't worry about what's canon or non-canon, because Gundam's kind of a hard franchise to attached a sense of concrete "canon" to. Sources and retcons are interesting to read up on, but don't let whether or not a side story is canon hinder your ability to enjoy it or count it in the grand scheme of continuity. The Japanese don't even seem to care, and it's their franchise.
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Calubin_175 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:55 am

One can always compile their own preferred set of canon works, as long as they don't contradict each other.

I personally just rely on text based sources, such as the Entertainment Bibles, MSV Books, Model Kit manuals, Gundam Encyclopedia etc.

Even the MG Gyan manual explicitly says that it could not determined whether M'Quave was killed in Texas Colony or at Abao A Qu(as per Char's deleted affair).

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Red Comet90 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:59 pm

Calubin_175 wrote: Even the MG Gyan manual explicitly says that it could not determined whether M'Quave was killed in Texas Colony or at Abao A Qu(as per Char's deleted affair).
I wouldn't take a MG kit manual as a way to figure out what is official in the Gundam universe. Considering that the MSG movies are what's considered to be official I don't see why there is an ambiguity with where M'Quve actually is killed unless I'm missing something.
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by mcred23 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:02 pm

Red Comet90 wrote:Considering that the MSG movies are what's considered to be official I don't see why there is an ambiguity with where M'Quve actually is killed unless I'm missing something.
The MSG movies aren't considered any more official than the TV series, they both have the exact same standing.
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Cardi Doorl » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:10 pm

Calubin_175 wrote:One can always compile their own preferred set of canon works, as long as they don't contradict each other.
That's what I do, actually, and it's what I'd always presumed was the obvious main strength of having no rigidly established continuity. Everyone can pick and choose whichever productions and stories they like for their own interpretation of Gundam continuity and thus everyone gets to be happy. Instead it's like everyone complains that nobody's there to tell them what to think :(
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Red Comet90 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:42 pm

mcred23 wrote:
Red Comet90 wrote:Considering that the MSG movies are what's considered to be official I don't see why there is an ambiguity with where M'Quve actually is killed unless I'm missing something.
The MSG movies aren't considered any more official than the TV series, they both have the exact same standing.
So both are considered to be official? I was under the impression that the movies were considered to be the true version of events in the UC timeline. Is this a misconception?
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by toysdream » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:10 pm

Red Comet90 wrote:So both are considered to be official? I was under the impression that the movies were considered to be the true version of events in the UC timeline. Is this a misconception?
Yes, I think that's a misperception. For one thing, there are plenty of mobile suits and mobile armors that were edited out of the movies but referenced in later series. Not to mention that M'Quve is never actually killed in the movies, but he never shows up again in later stories - that's probably why Kitazume gave him a death scene at A Baoa Qu in his movie-based "Char's Deleted Affair" manga.

Generally, the Japanese publications and official Web sites just write around this, hedging everything with a lot of "either/or" and "accounts vary" kind of statements. (The Gundam Officials encyclopedia, for example, discusses events from both versions and claims that nobody knows which is correct.) The detailed One Year War timeline introduced in Entertainment Bible 39, though, is explicitly movie-based - putting Ramba Ral's death just two days before the start of Operation Odessa and Hamon's revenge attack on the same day - which may give a slight edge to the movie continuity.

-- Mark

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Zeonista » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:10 pm

Well, since you asked, here's my own non-official take on it. BTW you left Outer Gundam and Double Fake off the list , but since neither story is in any way official, it's OK. :)

UNIVERSAL CENTURY
MS Igloo: This one has been animated, and features canon events from Original MS Gundam, and has some commercial models available so you can count it as official.
Rise from the Ashes: Video game, so it's unofficial.
Lost War Chronicles: Video game that doesn't really add anything new to the OYW so not official.
The Blue Destiny: Unofficial, even though there are HG-UC, Fix, nd Zeonography kits for the fans' delight.
Space, To the End of Flash: Unofficial, since Tomino never took it further than the novel, and nothing else references it .
MSV Senki Johnny Ridden: Not official.
Zeonic Front: Video game, not official, although canon events and characters are part of the story.
The Plot to Assassinate Gihren: Not official.
C.D.A Portrait of a Young Comet: Not really official, although being created by the character designer of Zeta, ZZ & CCA gives it an authentic flavor.
Battlefield Record U.C. 0081: Video game, so it's not official.
Ecole du Ciel: Not official, although Mikimoto-sensei really does well in making it a good story. Like Unicorn, this was serialized in Gundam Ace, so it could likewise make the grade with an anime production. (Yeah, we all wish....)
Advance of Zeta and sequels: If model kits and figures alone could make a story official, this would be the one.
Green Divers and Gundam Evolve ep.9: Official, if only because of the animation.
Gundam Sentinel: This it the biggest non-animated Gundam story out there, with a lasting impression on UC MS design. A Gaza-E appeared in one of the Zeta movies, so it could be the "unofficial official" story.
MSV-R Return of Johnny Ridden: Unofficial, despite its appeal to me. :)
Gundam F90: Popular enough to get its own model line, and some design hat-tips in other stories. Not official, unless you try to market your own F90 model. ;)
Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122: Not official.
Silhouette Formula 91 in U.C. 0123: Not official, despite all the nice models.
Climax U.C: Bonds of the Bloodline: Not official, with departure from canon.
Crossbone Gundam: Written by Tomino himself, references F91 via characters & MS, and have gotten a few models as well. More qualfied than most, although still not "official".
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Red Comet90 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:17 pm

toysdream wrote:
Red Comet90 wrote:So both are considered to be official? I was under the impression that the movies were considered to be the true version of events in the UC timeline. Is this a misconception?
Generally, the Japanese publications and official Web sites just write around this, hedging everything with a lot of "either/or" and "accounts vary" kind of statements. (The Gundam Officials encyclopedia, for example, discusses events from both versions and claims that nobody knows which is correct.) The detailed One Year War timeline introduced in Entertainment Bible 39, though, is explicitly movie-based - putting Ramba Ral's death just two days before the start of Operation Odessa and Hamon's revenge attack on the same day - which may give a slight edge to the movie continuity.

-- Mark
So this either leaves it up to the viewer to decide which continuity to go along with or a mixture of the two? I would imagine that it probably makes more sense if the true continuity is a mixture of the movies and TV series because of the cross overs, but unfortunately this makes it rather ambiguous as to which way the events actually occurred since the movie and TV series both have equal standing.

Its a shame that it couldn't just be a simple continuity retcon or fix.
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Chris » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:53 pm

Red Comet90 wrote:So this either leaves it up to the viewer to decide which continuity to go along with or a mixture of the two? I would imagine that it probably makes more sense if the true continuity is a mixture of the movies and TV series because of the cross overs, but unfortunately this makes it rather ambiguous as to which way the events actually occurred since the movie and TV series both have equal standing.

Its a shame that it couldn't just be a simple continuity retcon or fix.
But in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? It's the same OYW, same major events, and same conclusion. Does it really matter in say Zeta or Unicorn if the White Base was at Odessa, when/if M'quve died or the rearranging of Hamon's suicide attack? Are retcons really necessary?
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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:25 pm

Chris wrote:
Red Comet90 wrote:So this either leaves it up to the viewer to decide which continuity to go along with or a mixture of the two? I would imagine that it probably makes more sense if the true continuity is a mixture of the movies and TV series because of the cross overs, but unfortunately this makes it rather ambiguous as to which way the events actually occurred since the movie and TV series both have equal standing.

Its a shame that it couldn't just be a simple continuity retcon or fix.
But in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? It's the same OYW, same major events, and same conclusion. Does it really matter in say Zeta or Unicorn if the White Base was at Odessa, when/if M'quve died or the rearranging of Hamon's suicide attack? Are retcons really necessary?

inb4 G-Saviour isn't canon!

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Re: Canon Side Stories-Gundam

Post by Red Comet90 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:20 pm

Chris wrote:
Red Comet90 wrote:So this either leaves it up to the viewer to decide which continuity to go along with or a mixture of the two? I would imagine that it probably makes more sense if the true continuity is a mixture of the movies and TV series because of the cross overs, but unfortunately this makes it rather ambiguous as to which way the events actually occurred since the movie and TV series both have equal standing.

Its a shame that it couldn't just be a simple continuity retcon or fix.
But in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? It's the same OYW, same major events, and same conclusion. Does it really matter in say Zeta or Unicorn if the White Base was at Odessa, when/if M'quve died or the rearranging of Hamon's suicide attack? Are retcons really necessary?
No, its really not, but it would be nice to have. Why can't we know what are the true events that occurred during the One Year War? Why can't things be set straight. It creates unnecessary confusion. Of course in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter, but I don't see why they can't openly say which version takes precedence. Its nice to know what actually happened. Being a fan its only natural to want to know how things truly occurred.
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